Survey released- Americans are 'financially illiterate'

[Shark79]

Its nice to see what other write or think ...

All you can do is advise instead of insult

[Shark79]

Im just 2 away from 900

[Shark79]

make that 1 away - (Shams would be pissed) so this would be my 900th post! 100 to go

[ShamsWoof10]

Christ Shams, give her a break. Almost nobody actually owns the house outright. Besides you still have the property taxes. If you don't pay those they eventually come in and take what they want.

They don't because they have her mentallity not yours.. I grew up around a lot of people like you... They lived in a box for 5-7 years and put all that extra money into a CD that would have went into a house... I would say 7-10 years later you have a Jeep worker who can barely read PAY CASH for a home in the suburbs... Now every month he can put what would have been his mortage into a CD and god knows how much he'll have in 20 years.. I bet it's more then the SMUCK who bought a house with little down 5-7 years earlier and paid all that interest... The turnaround is unreal...

[BadNina]

I started reading this but fell asleep after the first sentence. Did I miss anything good?

[swede96]

It's really easy for people to sit and judge not knowing what the housing market is like all over the world. A studio apartment in my area can cost up to $900 a month...you can get one for $650...IF you don't value your safety.

I don't think comparing me to RW is really fair. First off, he's had many more years than I have to build up a savings and secondly, I'd be willing to bet he makes at least three times as much as I do. I'm sure everyone would love to go about buying a house the way he did, but it's not feasible for everyone. There were circumstances in my life (which I don't care to discuss due to the lack of maturity shown by some here) that caused me to make the decision to buy my home. I did the right thing for myself and my family. I have an economic plan for myself and it is falling into place nicely. I've worked with the hand I'm dealt.

There are pros and cons on either side of the rent/own debate. I choose to own and will always choose to own because I like the freedom of owning. That's not wrong. No matter who thinks they know better.

[ShamsWoof10]

There are pros and cons on either side of the rent/own debate. I choose to own and will always choose to own because I like the freedom of owning. That's not wrong. No matter who thinks they know better.

What's your mortage payment each month..?

Also YOU DON'T OWN!!!

You know all these foreclosures that are rising..? It's because THEY DON'T OWN!!!

[swede96]

Forclosures are rising because mortgage companies are lowering their standards and people are buying houses that can't really afford to do so.

[ShamsWoof10]

Forclosures are rising because mortgage companies are lowering their standards and people are buying houses that can't really afford to do so.

You completely ran around it...

THEY DON'T OWN THEIR HOME and you're right they did lower their standards allowing people to buy with very little down... How much did you put down..??

What's your mortage payment..???

[tacomax]

What's your mortage payment each month..?

Also YOU DON'T OWN!!!

You know all these foreclosures that are rising..? It's because THEY DON'T OWN!!!

If you buy a house and pay cash you own the house. If you buy a house and pay with borrowed money you own the house. Borrowing money to purchase an asset does not mean that you don't own that asset. It's really not such a difficult concept to get your head around.

[ShamsWoof10]

If you buy a house and pay cash you own the house. If you buy a house and pay with borrowed money you own the house. Borrowing money to purchase an asset does not mean that you don't own that asset. It's really not such a difficult concept to get your head around.

That's bullsh*t economics... YOU STILL DON'T OWN IT all that happened is the owner now is the bank not the previous either owner or bank... Helloooo..? Why do you think the bank takes it back NOT BECAUSE YOU OWN IT AND THEY DON'T... Not a difficult concept to get your head around...

You are not buying the house with a Discover card dipsh*t.. If you buy a TV and don't pay your card off they won't come and take the TV... This is like getting something from "Rent-A-Center" and saying you bought it... You will if you make all of your payments but you don't own it yet... Like a house if you don't make payments they will come and take the product... Buying a house is very simliar.. You rent to own it and pay three or more times the value by the time you pay it off... You can attempt to play word games but you know the reality... but it wouldn't surprise me if you didn't...

[swede96]

If you buy a house and pay cash you own the house. If you buy a house and pay with borrowed money you own the house. Borrowing money to purchase an asset does not mean that you don't own that asset. It's really not such a difficult concept to get your head around.

I don't know why people give you a hard time. I think you're quite witty and charming.

[tacomax]

That's bullsh*t economics... YOU STILL DON'T OWN IT all that happened is the owner now is the bank not the previous either owner or bank... Helloooo..?

I'll try again.

Suppose I go to Walmart and buy two new iPods for $100 each since they are having a closing down sale. I pay cash for one and put the other one on my credit card. You'll note that a credit card is somewhat similar to a mortgage in such a way that you're gaining an asset with money which isn't actually yours.

So - how many iPods do I own?

Why do you think the bank takes it back NOT BECAUSE YOU OWN IT AND THEY DON'T... Not a difficult concept to get your head around...

Why do you think?

You buy a house for, say, $500,000 and have a mortgage for $450,000. If you default on the loan, the bank decides that you're not going to be able to pay back the mortgage so they call in the debt. To do this, they sell your house to offset the debt. This doesn't stop the house being yours.

If you don't understand this then have a look at the deeds of the house. The deeds show who owns the house. Is your name on it or is the name of the bank on it?

[ShamsWoof10]

I'll try again.

Suppose I go to Walmart and buy two new iPods for $100 each since they are having a closing down sale. I pay cash for one and put the other one on my credit card. You'll note that a credit card is somewhat similar to a mortgage in such a way that you're gaining an asset with money which isn't actually yours.

So - how many iPods do I own?



Why do you think?

You buy a house for, say, $500,000 and have a mortgage for $450,000. If you default on the loan, the bank decides that you're not going to be able to pay back the mortgage so they call in the debt. To do this, they sell your house to offset the debt. This doesn't stop the house being yours.

If you don't understand this then have a look at the deeds of the house. The deeds show who owns the house. Is your name on it or is the name of the bank on it?

I don't give a sh*t what the deed says... In reality if you don't make payments you will lose it... You have "control" of it which is much more accurate then "own" it... You "own" debt and your house is calateral... As most are finding out if your house is less then your debt not only do you lose what Taco THOUGHT he owned but you still owe on your debt... You "OWN" debt in reality and not understanding that is what people like Seer, DH, and others have tried to point out... Taco you are another good example... Keep tryin' though...

How do you "own" anything if you are in "Negative Equaty"..? Well surprise ..surprise you still "own" your debt that doesn't change... The bank takes the house and sells it for what they can... If it pays off your debt then you're fine... If it does not then guess what.... you still "OWN" debt... No house now and you still "own" debt.. What did you really buy then... DEBT!!!! Wow imagine that...

[tacomax]

I don't give a sh*t what the deed says...

I see what you've done there. You've taken that damning piece of evidence concerning long established property rights and you've said it doesn't count. If you're on fast-track to becoming a lawyer then you better have a re-think. Come to think of it, you were stumped on the iPod question so that's the financial analyst job out of the window.

In reality if you don't make payments you will lose it...

That's correct - nice one. If you default on the loan then the bank reserves the right to call in the debt at their discretion. Paying off the debt is done by selling the house. Good job. Let's see if you can continue with the correct answers.

You have "control" of it which is much more accurate then "own" it... You "own" debt and your house is calateral...

OK, that didn't last long. You own the house, you never stop owning the house (until you stop owning the house). We're going back to that thing called the deeds again. You know, the thing that's the basis of property law that you're so keen to dismiss.

As most are finding out if your house is less then your debt not only do you lose what Taco THOUGHT he owned but you still owe on your debt... You "OWN" debt in reality and not understanding that is what people like Seer, DH, and others have tried to point out... Taco you are another good example... Keep tryin' though...

I think you kind of get it, but not quite. And then you convince yourself that your version of reality is actually the truth.

Let's put it another way. Think of house-buying as a balance sheet. On one side you've got assets and on the other side liabilities. You buy a house with a mortgage and you have the house as an asset and the debt as a liability. You own both the house and the debt.

How do you "own" anything if you are in "Negative Equaty"..? Well surprise ..surprise you still "own" your debt that doesn't change... The bank takes the house and sells it for what they can... If it pays off your debt then you're fine... If it does not then guess what.... you still "OWN" debt... No house now and you still "own" debt.. What did you really buy then... DEBT!!!! Wow imagine that...

In negative equity, the value of your asset (the house you own) is less than the value of the liability (the debt you own) in absolute terms. You still own the house and you still own the debt. It's just that one is larger than the other.

Oh, and Seer & DH are very welcome to comment on how I'm going wrong here.

[purecarnagge]

ok I bought a 135k townhome 1500 sqft split foyer layout. New construction. I live in iowa so lower cost of living.

I put 29k down on it. My payment is insanely low and yes I plan on overpaying it. I havea 5.25% 10 year ARM. That is my only debt.

Btw Im 2 classes from a 2 year degree and plan getting a 4 year business degree most likely in accounting or finance. I can go back on company dime next fall.


Anyone want to rate how I'm doing?
Not bad for a 24 year old college dropout if you ask me.

[ShamsWoof10]

You own the house, you never stop owning the house (until you stop owning the house).

Well no need to tell you how much sense this does NOT make...

In negative equity, the value of your asset (the house you own) is less than the value of the liability (the debt you own) in absolute terms. You still own the house and you still own the debt. It's just that one is larger than the other.

In absolute terms that is correct but what you and everyone else is missing is that IT'S WRONG!!! IN REAL TERMS you "OWN" debt and they teach it incorrectly here which goes along with what Swede and others have said about the system teaching and encouraging you to be in debt...

I have argued this with a banker who is much more qualified then Taco and he says something similar "It's how it is on the documents" but unlike Taco agrees that in REALITY the bank "owns" the home... He also says that would "discourage" people from taking out long term loans for houses if you put it in "REAL" terms...

[swede96]

I see what you've done there. You've taken that damning piece of evidence concerning long established property rights and you've said it doesn't count. If you're on fast-track to becoming a lawyer then you better have a re-think. Come to think of it, you were stumped on the iPod question so that's the financial analyst job out of the window.



That's correct - nice one. If you default on the loan then the bank reserves the right to call in the debt at their discretion. Paying off the debt is done by selling the house. Good job. Let's see if you can continue with the correct answers.



OK, that didn't last long. You own the house, you never stop owning the house (until you stop owning the house). We're going back to that thing called the deeds again. You know, the thing that's the basis of property law that you're so keen to dismiss.



I think you kind of get it, but not quite. And then you convince yourself that your version of reality is actually the truth.

Let's put it another way. Think of house-buying as a balance sheet. On one side you've got assets and on the other side liabilities. You buy a house with a mortgage and you have the house as an asset and the debt as a liability. You own both the house and the debt.


In negative equity, the value of your asset (the house you own) is less than the value of the liability (the debt you own) in absolute terms. You still own the house and you still own the debt. It's just that one is larger than the other.

Oh, and Seer & DH are very welcome to comment on how I'm going wrong here.

Taco, that made me tingly...especially the part in bold. Accounting is hot.

Seriously, thank you for jumping in on this one....otherwise Shams would be talking to himself, because I just don't have the patience to deal with him anymore.

[swede96]

ok I bought a 135k townhome 1500 sqft split foyer layout. New construction. I live in iowa so lower cost of living.

I put 29k down on it. My payment is insanely low and yes I plan on overpaying it. I havea 5.25% 10 year ARM. That is my only debt.

Btw Im 2 classes from a 2 year degree and plan getting a 4 year business degree most likely in accounting or finance. I can go back on company dime next fall.


Anyone want to rate how I'm doing?
Not bad for a 24 year old college dropout if you ask me.

I think you're doing very well. I'm a 24 year old college drop out, too...going back on the company dime.

[ShamsWoof10]

How much is your Mortage payment Swede and how much did you put down..?

[swede96]

In case you haven't taken the hint, I'll make this real simple for you:

None of your business.

How's that? I'm not going to discuss my financial information with you. At all.

[ShamsWoof10]

It sure as f*ck seemed to be my business when you went on about how much an apartment costs where you live and what the location was like...

Also incase you don't get it I'M MAKIING IT MY BUSINESS!!! How much is your mortage and how long have you had "control" of the house..?

[swede96]

Which was not my personal information.

You have proved that you are not mature enough to dicuss things like an adult here.

I do not wish to spar with someone that takes how they look at things and what they think and automatically make it fact. You have proven that this is how you work by dismissing a legally binding document such as a deed to suit your own needs.

If you are to simple to see that there is more than one side to this argument and that both have their pros and cons, you aren't worth it.

[ShamsWoof10]

Which was not my personal information.

You have proved that you are not mature enough to dicuss things like an adult here.

I do not wish to spar with someone that takes how they look at things and what they think and automatically make it fact. You have proven that this is how you work by dismissing a legally binding document such as a deed to suit your own needs.

If you are to simple to see that there is more than one side to this argument and that both have their pros and cons, you aren't worth it.

Oh SHUT THE F*CK UP you didn't answer the question long before that...

More of the "saving face" by Swede...

[swede96]

Oh SHUT THE F*CK UP you didn't answer the question long before that...

More of the "saving face" by Swede...

Thank you for proving my point.

[ShamsWoof10]

She jumps on others responses when she can't come up with anything... I can "discuss" with an adult who knows what they are talking about... YOU DO NOT!!!

[swede96]

I haven't seen you dicuss anything with anyone like an adult since I've been here, Shams. If someone doesn't agree with you, you fly into a hissy fit and start insulting them without even considering that there may be valid points on either side of the argument. That's not what adults do.

[ShamsWoof10]

I haven't seen you dicuss anything with anyone like an adult since I've been here, Shams. If someone doesn't agree with you, you fly into a hissy fit and start insulting them without even considering that there may be valid points on either side of the argument. That's not what adults do.

Really..? Hmmmm shall we discuss you and crazyl's bouts...? I did read that entire f*ckin' bible of a PM you sent... Yeah keep talking you adult...

[swede96]

Really..? Hmmmm shall we discuss you and crazyl's bouts...? I did read that entire f*ckin' bible of a PM you sent... Yeah keep talking you adult...

I don't wish to discuss my "bouts" with anyone, Shams. Unless you and Crazyl are one in the same or giving each other reach-arounds, that's really none of your business.

Silly me for thinking that if I talked to him like a human being, he would treat me like one. I gave him way too much credit.

Now, can we please get back to the topic at hand? I am sick and tired of hearing how the girls are ruining this board. Your immaturity is what threw this thread off track. If you wish to respond, at least do it in the private zone. People are probably just as if not more sick of looking at this than I am.

[ShamsWoof10]

I am sick and tired of hearing how the girls are ruining this board.

Don't cry to me about what someone ELSE said... I never said that so shut up!

If you wish to respond, at least do it in the private zone. People are probably just as if not more sick of looking at this than I am.

TOUGH SHIT!!!!

Is that clear enough..???

[swede96]

What an eloquent response.

[ShamsWoof10]

What an eloquent response.

TOOOT ...TOOOT

[tacomax]

Well no need to tell you how much sense this does NOT make...

Welcome to my world. Do you ever read your own posts?

In absolute terms that is correct but what you and everyone else is missing is that IT'S WRONG!!! IN REAL TERMS you "OWN" debt and they teach it incorrectly here which goes along with what Swede and others have said about the system teaching and encouraging you to be in debt...

So I'm correct yet incorrect. I tell you, I dumbed it down so far for you. I thought even you would get it when I slipped in the stuff about the balance sheet. Yet you still don't get it. In absolute and real terms you own the liability (i.e. the debt). In absolute and real terms you own the asset (i.e. the house).

And unless you have the money to buy a house outright, you're going to have to acquire a debt to buy a house. Since most people can't afford a house outright, they opt for a mortgage.

I have argued this with a banker who is much more qualified then Taco and he says something similar "It's how it is on the documents" but unlike Taco agrees that in REALITY the bank "owns" the home... He also says that would "discourage" people from taking out long term loans for houses if you put it in "REAL" terms...

I don't know which one is true - either you talk to some really stupid people or you say enough stupid things to people that they end up agreeing with you since it's the easiest option. Was this the same person who told you a can of coke will dissolve a nail in a week?

[tacomax]

If someone doesn't agree with you, you fly into a hissy fit and start insulting them without even considering that there may be valid points on either side of the argument.

You've noticed that too?

[swede96]

You've noticed that too?

Hasn't everyone?