Survey released- Americans are 'financially illiterate'

[Shark79]

Believe me guys ... this is not just within the US ... I have lived in other countries and see the ppl make the same stupid error ... yes we do not have a tax system in CR or any other part of Latin America (as to my knowledge) but some ppl are simply out of their minds to accept the different options that are given to them without taking into note that there 2nd or even 3rd generation will still pay that debt. Unreal

[tacomax]

I love it when 1,000 random people are taken as the gospel for representing an entire country.

Assuming that the writers were intelligent and professional enough to take the time to ensure a truly a random and unbiased sample then the results could very well be extrapolated to draw inferences of the country as a whole.

Hang on, this is CNN. Point taken.

[RageWizard]

I been skimming through the thread here and I think people are wondering why students from abroad come here to go to the universities. If this is the question, the answer is we still do the best research over here with the best equipment and personnel, it is just that the personnel are increasingly foriegn. Here at my office, we have a hard time getting qualified people to fill high paying employment slots who aren't foriegners. I must say that the people india are about as sharp as they come. Real hard to understand their brand of english and they know this, so they try blow through it real fast so you don't catch them f'ing up, but I have learned the ind-lish and am starting to catch them.

[ShamsWoof10]

That's what I mean. With the schooling these kids get in their home countries, they can skate through our colleges.

YEAH!!!

Just because they get good schooling pre college doesn't mean they can go to College's that DON'T exist there...

What exactly are you trying to say..?

I been skimming through the thread here and I think people are wondering why students from abroad come here to go to the universities.

No we know.. Swede is wondering...

[swede96]

YEAH!!!

Just because they get good schooling pre college doesn't mean they can go to College's that DON'T exist there...

What exactly are you trying to say..?



No we know.. Swede is wondering...

I was trying to say: With the schooling these kids get in their home countries, they can skate through our colleges.

Is that unclear in any way?

P.S. Find someone else to be an asshole to. I'm not arguing with you on any of your points. There's no need for you to treat me like an idiot.

[The Seer]

P.S. Find someone else to be an asshole to. I'm not arguing with you on any of your points. There's no need for you to treat me like an idiot.

Come on, it would upset the order of the universe if you and Sham's weren't arguing.

[swede96]

Screw the universe. I'm not giving the guy the satisfaction anymore. I'm trying to get along, but I don't appreciate the way he puts words in my mouth and treats me like I'm stupid.

If ever anyone has a question about what I mean, the civil and mature thing to do would be to say "Hey Swede, what do you mean by this?"....without throwing in a sarcastic dig before it.

[ShamsWoof10]

If you like being told what to do and how to act and like being "shut off" if you don't agree with the gov.

Well you will... It will all happen so gradually that you won't even notice... Everything will be fine and better then ever...

I think the hope there, Shams, is that the home will go up in value and even though you may be $200k in debt, you'll have a $250k asset. Granted, it doesn't always work like that. I don't look at my mortgage as the same kind of debt as my credit cards, because if push came to shove, I could sell my home and actually make money. But there's nothing I can do but pay my credit cards. The stuff I bought with them all those years ago is long gone...and you can't return gas.

I guess my point is that when you buy a house, yes, you are going into debt...BUT you have a corresponding asset that off-sets that debt (unless the market drops...then you're in deep doo doo). That being said, I think many people over-simplify this idea to: Who cares if I can really afford it? I have a house!! Then they start taking out equity loans and things get ugly...all of a sudden their debt outweighs their asset by a few hundred thousand.

Here is where I disagree with you... I refer back to "Coaches" house... To quickly summerize...

I called him last month and since he has EVERY reciept of EVERYTHING he has bought since 1966 I knew he would be an accurate model...

In 1981 he bought a home for 110K and paid it off in 26 years refinancing along the way and saving a little bit in interest... We added all his payments for "inshurnance", "taxes", and "MAJOR MAINT." and came up with 625K... Add another 125K for "MAJOR ADD ON'S"... So he "SPENT" AT LEAST 750K NOT COUNTING the cost to heat, cool, and all the MINOR mantian... He tells me the samething you did... He says "Hey but at least I have something to show for it"... His house is "APPRAISED" at 250K...

He asks.."OK what if I paid 1K a month from 1981 and until now how much would I have thrown away...?" Well a little over 300K and if he puts the rest (over time of course) in a savings account with minor interest he would still have AT LEAST a million by now... What if he would have gotten in the market in the 80's and 90's with all that extra cash.. OMG!

By the way 1K a month in rent in Toledo in the 80's and 90's would have gotten you one hell of a place... Unless it was a BIG house I don't think you would have even found anything for 1K...

[ShamsWoof10]

I was trying to say: With the schooling these kids get in their home countries, they can skate through our colleges.

Is that unclear in any way?.

You did say that and WE AGREED ON THAT!!

This was the question at hand...

Which begs the question: why do they come here at all? If our education system is such a joke, why come here for university? .

[ShamsWoof10]

They don't even teach this stuff in schools so what do you expect. The average dumbass american has no idea how much things will cost when the interest is added in, and they don't really care, if they get a little over extended say on the car payment or morgage, just go bankrupt and start again.

.

So true.

This deserves it's own post... How many of all of you factor in the cost of the interest on your house like you do for credit cards..?

"Coach" paid 440K in principal and interest and even after this run up in housing there is no way in f*ck he'll even get that in his lifetime...

[Shark79]

I been skimming through the thread here and I think people are wondering why students from abroad come here to go to the universities. If this is the question, the answer is we still do the best research over here with the best equipment and personnel, it is just that the personnel are increasingly foriegn. Here at my office, we have a hard time getting qualified people to fill high paying employment slots who aren't foriegners. I must say that the people india are about as sharp as they come. Real hard to understand their brand of english and they know this, so they try blow through it real fast so you don't catch them f'ing up, but I have learned the ind-lish and am starting to catch them.

What you are not aware that many US students go to Universities outside the US for the same type of degree ... you may get the same degree (in some cases even a better education) for a better price ... US Students come to Latin America to get there degree or major, fly back to the US to work or simply stay and build up there own business ... Yes, it is also true it would never be the same to have a degree from Harvard or for it to be equal to any other school in Latin America ... but it does happen .. and recently many universities (including Harvard) offer extension degrees to these public universities for there students to have the "title" ... so you can study for just a third of the price. Now thats a bargain.

[swede96]

Here is where I disagree with you... I refer back to "Coaches" house... To quickly summerize...

I called him last month and since he has EVERY reciept of EVERYTHING he has bought since 1966 I knew he would be an accurate model...

In 1981 he bought a home for 110K and paid it off in 26 years refinancing along the way and saving a little bit in interest... We added all his payments for "inshurnance", "taxes", and "MAJOR MAINT." and came up with 625K... Add another 125K for "MAJOR ADD ON'S"... So he "SPENT" AT LEAST 750K NOT COUNTING the cost to heat, cool, and all the MINOR mantian... He tells me the samething you did... He says "Hey but at least I have something to show for it"... His house is "APPRAISED" at 250K...

He asks.."OK what if I paid 1K a month from 1981 and until now how much would I have thrown away...?" Well a little over 300K and if he puts the rest (over time of course) in a savings account with minor interest he would still have AT LEAST a million by now... What if he would have gotten in the market in the 80's and 90's with all that extra cash.. OMG!

By the way 1K a month in rent in Toledo in the 80's and 90's would have gotten you one hell of a place... Unless it was a BIG house I don't think you would have even found anything for 1K...

We're always going to look at this differently.

First off, unless you have an apartment that all inclusive, you're going to pay heating/cooling costs anyway, so that shouldn't be factored in.

$250k appraised, or a realtor told him he could get $250k if he sold? There's a difference.

As far as major add ons and such: those were his choice. Updating and maintaining your home does add to the re-sale value. It's the homowner's job to figure out if they'll get a return for their invesment based on the area and the cost of the materials they are using.

But there are SO many things to factor in that aren't included in your post that I really can't give an opinion on your coach's investment.

However, I will say that I'm looking on making enough from selling my place to put a decent down payment on a house. Plus, my montlhy "rent" payment is far lower than if I rented an apartment this size. Furthermore, I feel that the freedom I have by owning my home is priceless. Your coach may have spent more than he'd get back if he sold, but at least he's basically sitting on $250k. Had he rented all those years, that $300k would be LONG gone.

[RageWizard]

This deserves it's own post... How many of all of you factor in the cost of the interest on your house like you do for credit cards..?

"Coach" paid 440K in principal and interest and even after this run up in housing there is no way in f*ck he'll even get that in his lifetime...

I try to keep interest payments to a minimum. I don't use a credit card for anything other than holding reservations and occasionally putting a charge on it so they don't drop me. I own the house outright and actually always have. Since I had it built and supervised the building and coordinated the build my self, I save a bundle on expenses. No car payment, always pay in full if you can. I been told that this is crazy, but no one has been able to explain how it is better to spend upwards of 10% a year to buy something. It is hard to make 10% a year on money and these are small rates.

[Willie Bee]

Assuming that the writers were intelligent and professional enough to take the time to ensure a truly a random and unbiased sample then the results could very well be extrapolated to draw inferences of the country as a whole.

Hang on, this is CNN. Point taken.

I'd actually be surprised if the numbers were really that high among people that could figure simple monthly interest rates. Swede (I think she's the one who said it earlier) is right in this is what should be drilled into high school students instead of spending all of the time we do just trying to get the kiddos through some bullsh¡t standardized test so that the politicos' no child left behind hogwash looks good. Sportsgirl's dad also did a great job forcing her to learn about finances and saving and how things work in the real world at an early age.

[swede96]

You did say that and WE AGREED ON THAT!!

This was the question at hand...

Oh, okay...because that's not the statement you bolded in the quote or eluded to in you sarcastic little rant.

[Sportsgirl]

Sportsgirl's dad also did a great job forcing her to learn about finances and saving and how things work in the real world at an early age.

He definately did, but I am in the minority, sadly.

[swede96]

I try to keep interest payments to a minimum. I don't use a credit card for anything other than holding reservations and occasionally putting a charge on it so they don't drop me. I own the house outright and actually always have. Since I had it built and supervised the building and coordinated the build my self, I save a bundle on expenses. No car payment, always pay in full if you can. I been told that this is crazy, but no one has been able to explain how it is better to spend upwards of 10% a year to buy something. It is hard to make 10% a year on money and these are small rates.

Buying outright isn't an option for eveyone. It would be great if it were, but not many people can buy or build a house without going into debt.

[RageWizard]

Buying outright isn't an option for eveyone. It would be great if it were, but not many people can buy or build a house without going into debt.

I try not to buy things that I don't have money right now to buy. I find that it gives an incentive to make the money quicker to get the stuff.

BTW my house was paid for, but the land was not for 5 years.

[swede96]

I try not to buy things that I don't have money right now to buy. I find that it gives an incentive to make the money quicker to get the stuff.

BTW my house was paid for, but the land was not for 5 years.

Okay, but imagine living off a MUCH lower salary than your own (P.S. If anything happens to your wife and you're looking for a sugar baby...call me). It's really difficult saving up for a home while paying rent in some areas. Rent around here is absurd. So what's a girl to do? Pay the rent and hope she can put a few bucks a month into savings, or buy a home where your monthly payment will actually be lower and know that every time you send off your loan check, there is that much more equity in your home instead of kissing it goodbye forever?

[ShamsWoof10]

We're always going to look at this differently.

First off, unless you have an apartment that all inclusive, you're going to pay heating/cooling costs anyway, so that shouldn't be factored in.

$250k appraised, or a realtor told him he could get $250k if he sold? There's a difference.

As far as major add ons and such: those were his choice. Updating and maintaining your home does add to the re-sale value. It's the homowner's job to figure out if they'll get a return for their invesment based on the area and the cost of the materials they are using.

But there are SO many things to factor in that aren't included in your post that I really can't give an opinion on your coach's investment.

However, I will say that I'm looking on making enough from selling my place to put a decent down payment on a house. Plus, my montlhy "rent" payment is far lower than if I rented an apartment this size. Furthermore, I feel that the freedom I have by owning my home is priceless. Your coach may have spent more than he'd get back if he sold, but at least he's basically sitting on $250k. Had he rented all those years, that $300k would be LONG gone.

OMG ...OMG ....OMG!!!

I am not going to reply in detail here because I would insult you for the rest of the day... I am still amazed at what I just read...

CALLING BRENT CRUDE or Rage.. Please explain to this "broad" why what she posted here goes right along with the average person's thinking and credit cards...

By the way you should know it costs MORE to heat/cool a house then an apartment...

Also when you are talking about selling your place to "MAKE" enough to put a down payment on a home are you factoring only the price of your home or the over all cost..?

Cost that is not there when renting... Interest that is FRONT LOADED... If you have the house for 5 short years you should add all that interest to the sticker price of the home... How about property insurance ..? You wouldn't pay that in an apartment as it's own payment... Closing costs..? If you don't figure these in then it's the same as people not factoring how much they really pay when they use a credit card....

Like I said just in "INTEREST" and "PRINCIPAL" coach in HIS LIFETIME WILL NOT SELL THAT HOUSE FOR 440K...

[RageWizard]

Okay, but imagine living off a MUCH lower salary than your own (P.S. If anything happens to your wife and you're looking for a sugar baby...call me). It's really difficult saving up for a home while paying rent in some areas. Rent around here is absurd. So what's a girl to do? Pay the rent and hope she can put a few bucks a month into savings, or buy a home where your monthly payment will actually be lower and know that every time you send off your loan check, there is that much more equity in your home instead of kissing it goodbye forever?

Point taken, I would save atleast 10 and more like 20 % of the cost of the home if I could. Then do home work on morgage types because it used to be that they wanted to get paided back but now thanks to Goldman will Sack you, if you can breathe you could get a loan or over 100 percent of the house. Well maybe not now, but still have as much money as possible before you buy. Then get a fixed rate, and then pay over the monthly payment, and most importantly, don't get too much house for your salary. I would think that your mortgage should not be more than 50 % of your monthly salary.

[RageWizard]

Okay, but imagine living off a MUCH lower salary than your own (P.S. If anything happens to your wife and you're looking for a sugar baby...call me). It's really difficult saving up for a home while paying rent in some areas. Rent around here is absurd. So what's a girl to do? Pay the rent and hope she can put a few bucks a month into savings, or buy a home where your monthly payment will actually be lower and know that every time you send off your loan check, there is that much more equity in your home instead of kissing it goodbye forever?

You look like you can get some sugar daddy easily if you wanted. The best ones are the ancient ones,(ie. the Anna Nichol Smith route.) then work him to death and his money is your money. Or like my ex-wife, we were married only 2 years, but she has been on the payroll for 17 years now, I still have 20 months of paying to do. Come November 2009, I'm free from her, and I'll figure out how much each sexual encounter cost me with her. I bet that it is staggering.

[swede96]

OMG ...OMG ....OMG!!!

I am not going to reply in detail here because I would insult you for the rest of the day... I am still amazed at what I just read...

CALLING BRENT CRUDE or Rage.. Please explain to this "broad" why what she posted here goes right along with the average person's thinking and credit cards...

By the way you should know it costs MORE to heat/cool a house then an apartment...

Also when you are talking about selling your place to "MAKE" enough to put a down payment on a home are you factoring only the price of your home or the over all cost..?

Cost that is not there when renting... Interest that is FRONT LOADED... If you have the house for 5 short years you should add all that interest to the sticker price of the home... How about property insurance ..? You wouldn't pay that in an apartment as it's own payment... Closing costs..? If you don't figure these in then it's the same as people not factoring how much they really pay when they use a credit card....

Like I said just in "INTEREST" and "PRINCIPAL" coach in HIS LIFETIME WILL NOT SELL THAT HOUSE FOR 440K...

I know you're getting youself all hyped up to get into a fight with me so you can jerk off to your own posts...but it's not happening. You're not worth my chat ink when you get like this. Move along.

[swede96]

P.S. You may not need homeowners insurance if you're renting, but you should damn well have renter's insurace. Do you trust your landlord to make sure everything is up to code and the building won't burn down? I wouldn't.

[swede96]

Point taken, I would save atleast 10 and more like 20 % of the cost of the home if I could. Then do home work on morgage types because it used to be that they wanted to get paided back but now thanks to Goldman will Sack you, if you can breathe you could get a loan or over 100 percent of the house. Well maybe not now, but still have as much money as possible before you buy. Then get a fixed rate, and then pay over the monthly payment, and most importantly, don't get too much house for your salary. I would think that your mortgage should not be more than 50 % of your monthly salary.

Well yeah, I know all this. I have a good plan going here. I'm far smarted than certain people here give me credit for.

[swede96]

You look like you can get some sugar daddy easily if you wanted. The best ones are the ancient ones,(ie. the Anna Nichol Smith route.) then work him to death and his money is your money. Or like my ex-wife, we were married only 2 years, but she has been on the payroll for 17 years now, I still have 20 months of paying to do. Come November 2009, I'm free from her, and I'll figure out how much each sexual encounter cost me with her. I bet that it is staggering.

Most of the filthy rich have iron clad pre-nups. Almost dead is the best route....OR...in your case: older, handsome and a good smoking buddy....with money! How is that NOT a marriage made in heaven?

[matskralc]

P.S. You may not need homeowners insurance if you're renting, but you should damn well have renter's insurace. Do you trust your landlord to make sure everything is up to code and the building won't burn down? I wouldn't.

It boggled my mind when I moved into my first apartment and my renter's insurance (more than enough to cover what few things I own) was a whopping $8 a month. I know that'll vary geographically, but how could people in my area NOT pay that and be able to sleep at night??????


Also, trends like those in the original post keep people like me in jobs.

[ShamsWoof10]

you should damn well have renter's insurace.

For once you're right so let's add that in... oooh what.. $100 a year at the most..

I mean, I JUST finished my accounting and economics courses within the last year.

However, I will say that I'm looking on making enough from selling my place to put a decent down payment on a house. Plus, my montlhy "rent" payment is far lower than if I rented an apartment this size. Furthermore, I feel that the freedom I have by owning my home is priceless. Your coach may have spent more than he'd get back if he sold, but at least he's basically sitting on $250k. Had he rented all those years, that $300k would be LONG gone.

Ok ...Ok ...I"ll move on I just had to get one more laugh...

[RageWizard]

I tell you Swedes, I didn't own a home until I was 30, and I would still be living in it if the housing market didn't have a huge boom, because I unloaded it on some AH who was chasing the same asset class as everyone else. Your young yet. I think back on all the cash I tossed out the window at that age because I was making money but still broke. Then one day it occured to me to try to have my money work for me instead of the other way around. Then magically I started to save dough a little at first then it kind of snowballed to eventually I was able to buy a house.

BTW if you move down to Dania Fl. I know a nice place you can rent for almost nothing about a mile from the beach.

[swede96]

It boggled my mind when I moved into my first apartment and my renter's insurance (more than enough to cover what few things I own) was a whopping $8 a month. I know that'll vary geographically, but how could people in my area NOT pay that and be able to sleep at night??????


Also, trends like those in the original post keep people like me in jobs.

I don't get it either. I own, but I have had a few roommates renting my spare room...it says right in the lease that my homeowners insurance doesn't cover their stuff. Why not pay the money? A hurricane would LEVEL my place....and I'd be rich while they lost everything they owned.

[swede96]

I tell you Swedes, I didn't own a home until I was 30, and I would still be living in it if the housing market didn't have a huge boom, because I unloaded it on some AH who was chasing the same asset class as everyone else. Your young yet. I think back on all the cash I tossed out the window at that age because I was making money but still broke. Then one day it occured to me to try to have my money work for me instead of the other way around. Then magically I started to save dough a little at first then it kind of snowballed to eventually I was able to buy a house.

BTW if you move down to Dania Fl. I know a nice place you can rent for almost nothing about a mile from the beach.

I WISH I could nove to FL!

I'm pretty proud that I owned my place at 19. I don't know anyone else that can say that. While my friends are struggling to pay rent post-college, I have a lower payment and a down payment for a house whenever I choose to sell...and that sounds pretty damn good to me. It's damn near impossible to be completely debt free, but there are ways to make it work to your advantage a little. Plus, I make more money than them and get more back in taxes with all of my homeowner write-offs.

[ShamsWoof10]

I tell you Swedes, I didn't own a home until I was 30, and I would still be living in it if the housing market didn't have a huge boom, because I unloaded it on some AH who was chasing the same asset class as everyone else. Your young yet. I think back on all the cash I tossed out the window at that age because I was making money but still broke. Then one day it occured to me to try to have my money work for me instead of the other way around. Then magically I started to save dough a little at first then it kind of snowballed to eventually I was able to buy a house.

BTW if you move down to Dania Fl. I know a nice place you can rent for almost nothing about a mile from the beach.

Thanks Rage.. That's not bad.. It's not as direct as I had hoped but good read..

[ShamsWoof10]

I WISH I could nove to FL!

I'm pretty proud that I owned my place at 19. I don't know anyone else that can say that. While my friends are struggling to pay rent post-college, I have a lower payment and a down payment for a house whenever I choose to sell.

You can't say it either... You don't own it until it's paid off... If you stopped paying on it can you keep it ..? No!!! because it's not yours!!! This type of thinking is the very topic of this thread... and YOU are a wonderful example..

[RageWizard]

You can't say it either... You don't own it until it's paid off... If you stopped paying on it can you keep it ..? No!!! because it's not yours!!! This type of thinking is the very topic of this thread... and YOU are a wonderful example..

Christ Shams, give her a break. Almost nobody actually owns the house outright. Besides you still have the property taxes. If you don't pay those they eventually come in and take what they want.

[Shark79]

These topics always gets on Shams nerves! LOL

Chill bro ... I mean did you expect economic experts on sports forums?