Sharpest Book Lines...Matchy or Pinny?

Santo · 09-25-10, 01:54 AM

Matchbook lines are a function of Pinnacle often, but it's possible that close to game time between the margins Matchbook may give a better approximation of the no-juice line than the traditional effective mid-point of Pinnacle.

guitarjosh · 09-25-10, 01:55 AM

For me Matchbook. I am up all time at Pinny, and I think I've lost more at Matchbook then any other book.

chunnnn2010 · 09-25-10, 02:28 AM

if you are a non US player, better to have both at your first choice best lines & odds.

nosttrader · 09-25-10, 02:50 AM

Matchbook. The market is driving the price. Spread is much narrower on the the major sporting events

goblue12 · 09-25-10, 03:02 AM

Matchbook's lines are essentially Pinnacle's no-vig line.

Ruifgalmeida · 09-25-10, 05:52 AM

in large markets I think Pinnacle is the most sharp book in the world(they have to be)

Arilou · 09-25-10, 06:51 AM

Some day a person with full historical records will answer questions like this definitively. Then he probably won't tell anyone.

jayc88 · 09-25-10, 07:53 AM

matchbook ml's for baseball are sharper than pinnys lines, but mlb totals are sharper at pinny imo

patswin · 09-25-10, 08:10 AM

Pinnacle

Max009 · 09-25-10, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by patswin

Pinnacle

100% agree, MB is just following Pinnacle that is why they don't offer early lines. If we are defining a sharp line to be the most accurately reflective of the marketplace then the Pinnacle line is doing all the sharpening and everyone else is just following along. Where the money is going is where the line is sharp and Pinnacle attracts a lot more money than MB.

Nicky Santoro · 09-25-10, 09:40 AM

pinnacle is sharp as hell, but sorry, no one comes close to matchy when it comes to sharpness. if you can beat pinny closers, you will do very good.. but f you can beat matchy closers, you'd be richer than billy gates..

if you don't beleive me, next time pinny is +152 and your offer +160 gets matched at matchy.. don't think you have a great deal yet..watch what happens at pinny 8 min later, pinny is now +158.. this will happen 87% of the time.. matchy is almost always ahead of pinny.

matchy will play mind games with you... they are the best you'll ever see.

wrongturn · 09-25-10, 09:52 AM

If you see 1-cent line at Matchbook with 20K+ available at both sides, that is the sharpest you can get. But I would think almost always it is Pinnacle that drives the line movement.

ronald · 09-25-10, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by Nicky Santoro

pinnacle is sharp as hell, but sorry, no one comes close to matchy when it comes to sharpness. if you can beat pinny closers, you will do very good.. but f you can beat matchy closers, you'd be richer than billy gates..

if you don't beleive me, next time pinny is +152 and your offer +160 gets matched at matchy.. don't think you have a great deal yet..watch what happens at pinny 8 min later, pinny is now +158.. this will happen 87% of the time.. matchy is almost always ahead of pinny.

matchy will play mind games with you... they are the best you'll ever see.

Absolutely false. Pinny moves before Matchbook.

tomcast · 09-25-10, 10:10 AM

Pinnacle has sharper lines.

Nicky Santoro · 09-25-10, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by ronald

Absolutely false. Pinny moves before Matchbook.

you're nuts..

next time have your offer matched at +160 at matchy when pinny is still +152.. i will bet you whatever you want pinny goes to +157 within a few minutes..

don't beleive me, try it..

Max009 · 09-25-10, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by Nicky Santoro

you're nuts..

next time have your offer matched at +160 at matchy when pinny is still +152.. i will bet you whatever you want pinny goes to +157 within a few minutes..

don't beleive me, try it..

Right now the best offer for the Tennessee Titans spread at MB is +101 for $300 and they have less than $700 liquidity total. At Pinnacle you can wager $50,000 at +101. I sincerely doubt Pinnacle is learning anything from Matchbook about what the line should be.

Pinnacle is taking millions of dollars in wagers before you can even bet 5k at MB.

Nicky Santoro · 09-25-10, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by Max009

Right now the best offer for the Tennessee Titans spread at MB is +101 for $300 and they have less than $700 liquidity total. At Pinnacle you can wager $50,000 at +101. I sincerely doubt Pinnacle is learning anything from Matchbook about what the line should be.

Pinnacle is taking millions of dollars in wagers before you can even bet 5k at MB.

i'm talking right around post time.. if matchy is not as sharp, then why can you bet into a -118/+117 line with 120,000$ in liquidity, while pinny is -123/+113.

and if you can get your offer matched at matchy at -117 and pinny is -125/+115, i dare you to bet the -117 at matchy.. don't think it's a great line you got, because more often than not, pinny will move to -119/+109, and now you are stuck with a -ev bet...

Go ahead and try it and you'll see i'm right. matchy is sharper than pinny.

Chuck Sims · 09-25-10, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Max009

Right now the best offer for the Tennessee Titans spread at MB is +101 for $300 and they have less than $700 liquidity total. At Pinnacle you can wager $50,000 at +101. I sincerely doubt Pinnacle is learning anything from Matchbook about what the line should be.

Pinnacle is taking millions of dollars in wagers before you can even bet 5k at MB.

In-game betting at Matchbook on the NC St/GT game had a $20,000 offer on NC St +7.5 +115 just a couple of minutes ago.

Chuck Sims · 09-25-10, 12:26 PM

Anybody grab part of that NC St +7.5 +115 $20,000 offer during in-game betting?

durito · 09-25-10, 01:02 PM

Who do you think was making that offer?

increasedodds · 09-25-10, 01:23 PM

Whichever one has higher limits. Usually Pinnacle. Occasionally matchbook when the amounts available exceed Pinny limits.

LostBankroll · 09-25-10, 01:39 PM

GT back in it but they wont cover. Matchy is by far sharper than Pinny. I wish I could use Pinny tho, but since I cant ill stick to Matchbook.

jolmscheid · 09-25-10, 03:20 PM

Thanks guys...I wish I could use Pinny as well...but Matchbook will just have to do for us USA players!

jjgold · 09-25-10, 03:20 PM

Pinnacle by far

Much much much more sharp money bet at Pinny

Not even in same league

the sink · 09-25-10, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Nicky Santoro

pinnacle is sharp as hell, but sorry, no one comes close to matchy when it comes to sharpness. if you can beat pinny closers, you will do very good.. but f you can beat matchy closers, you'd be richer than billy gates..

if you don't beleive me, next time pinny is +152 and your offer +160 gets matched at matchy.. don't think you have a great deal yet..watch what happens at pinny 8 min later, pinny is now +158.. this will happen 87% of the time.. matchy is almost always ahead of pinny.

matchy will play mind games with you... they are the best you'll ever see.

This is very much correct!

Max009 · 09-25-10, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by Nicky Santoro

i'm talking right around post time.. if matchy is not as sharp, then why can you bet into a -118/+117 line with 120,000$ in liquidity, while pinny is -123/+113.

and if you can get your offer matched at matchy at -117 and pinny is -125/+115, i dare you to bet the -117 at matchy.. don't think it's a great line you got, because more often than not, pinny will move to -119/+109, and now you are stuck with a -ev bet...

Go ahead and try it and you'll see i'm right. matchy is sharper than pinny.

Please explain that if the people making offers at matchbook are so much sharper than Pinnacle why is it pinnacle will take 50K in action while MB wont take 1k? When all the risk sharpening the lines has been done then you start to see offers at MB, that is not the definition of sharp. How much more volume do you think Pinnacle does than matchbook? Orders of magnitude would be my guess.

Take the Kentucky Florida game which starts in like 3 hours one person could get a 2k wager in at MB and Pinnacle is taking 20k a pop from all comers.

I know you like Matchbook but to say that Pinnacle is watching what MB is doing to set their lines is ridiculous. Its like saying Walmart is watching the corner grocery store to see what the price of milk should be.

Ruifgalmeida · 09-26-10, 11:02 AM

Pinnacle dont watch anybody for setting lines(in big markets) they are not afraid of anybody.
In small markets soccer it is diferent, they put smaller limits and basical have to copy from other bookies, because they have litle information.

durito · 09-26-10, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by Ruifgalmeida

Pinnacle dont watch anybody for setting lines(in big markets) they are not afraid of anybody.
In small markets soccer it is diferent, they put smaller limits and basical have to copy from other bookies, because they have litle information.

Ah they copy almost all their openers.

Chuck Sims · 09-26-10, 11:37 AM

"Please explain that if the people making offers at matchbook are so much sharper than Pinnacle why is it pinnacle will take 50K in action while MB wont take 1k?"

Another clueless poster. Matchbook won't take 1k? Hey Max009, Matchbook is an exchange. I had a $23,000 MLB side game offer accepted at Matchbook. A $20,000 offer was available during in-game betting in the NC St/GT game. A quater of a million worth of offers on the Colts in the AFC championship.

JerseyLove · 09-26-10, 11:52 AM

Not really to sure. Dont use offshore anymore.

Max009 · 09-26-10, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Ruifgalmeida

Pinnacle dont watch anybody for setting lines(in big markets) they are not afraid of anybody.
In small markets soccer it is diferent, they put smaller limits and basical have to copy from other bookies, because they have litle information.

Pinnacle was taking $250,000 a side on the world cup and you think they are just copying somebody's line? In most small markets Pinnacle is the only place offering a line. Who are you comparing Pinnacle too...please let me know who Pinnacle is copying their lines from and which sport it is?

Max009 · 09-26-10, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by Chuck Sims

"Please explain that if the people making offers at matchbook are so much sharper than Pinnacle why is it pinnacle will take 50K in action while MB wont take 1k?"

Another clueless poster. Matchbook won't take 1k? Hey Max009, Matchbook is an exchange. I had a $23,000 MLB side game offer accepted at Matchbook. A $20,000 offer was available during in-game betting in the NC St/GT game. A quater of a million worth of offers on the Colts in the AFC championship.

So you think an exchange offering less than 1k on NFL game 1 day before it starts is dictating to Pinnacle, who has been taking wagers for a week on that event and is offering 50k limits is taking direction from some guy offering $200 on Matchbook?

Look, I know you love Matchbook, but to think they are dictating the market price to Pinnacle on anything is just silly. I pointed to specific examples, you don't want to deal with reality that is fine. I was going to find some more specific examples but Matchbook has currently suspended all wagering so I would expect Pinnacle to pull all their lines now and wait until Matchbook comes back up so they can tell them what to do.

NuNo · 09-26-10, 02:38 PM

it's pinny of course

Nicky Santoro · 09-26-10, 03:27 PM

i can't beleive you guys are still arguing this.. it's so funny.

how about you see for yourselves.. next time you see a great line at matchy that is 8 cents better than pinny, bet it.. then watch roughly 6 min later, pinny will follow matchy and it will no longer be a good bet. This happens very frequently.

will that prove to you who is sharper, or do you still want to say pinny is sharper??

no need to argue any longer..