What I would like to see from SBR...

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  • GJMike
    SBR Sharp
    • 08-11-05
    • 304

    #1
    What I would like to see from SBR...
    With all of the new competition out there, and with everyone 'at war' with each other, I see SBR as having a great opportunity to jump out as the #1 resource in the offshore community. In my opinion, here is how they could do it (feel free to argue, add, or anything else to my post):

    1.) Clean up the list of books on SBR. Narrow it down to 100 'name-brand' outfits. Get rid of all the books like nobodyhaseverheardofme.com. It makes the list very intimidating and hard to follow for a guy that is cruising around to find a good book to play at. Since no website is free, charge each of these 100 books a nominal maintenance fee to be listed. This fee could be as little as $100 per month which would cover the cost of servers and bandwidth. Let the books know that paying a maintenance fee in no way alters opinions on their overall rating. Books should still comply because there have been no truer words than the only bad publicity is no publicity. There should also be a set criteria for what makes a book deserve a certain mark. Objective ratings rather than subjective would hold much more value.

    2.) Keep the forum completely uncensored. Obviously dont let anyone advertise products, sponsorts or not. In fact, I wouldnt even allow sponsors on the forum aspect of the company. It gets too easy to look the other way or let certain situations be influenced. Allow no touting or contest to be entered into the forums at all. Only genuine posts from genuine users. If someone has a problem with the book, let them speak. If it is found that an agenda was used by the poster, edit the post with a clear reason as to why it was edited for the community to see.

    3.) Make the Live Lines the primary focus of the sites revenue. Take a small maintenance fee and list all 100 books that you deemed apropriate for the rating system. With cookies and the new advances in the net, let the players decide what books to look at. With a very modest price of $500 per month per book, you are looking at $50,000/month, or $600,000 per year for this feature alone. Do your best to make the lines as accurate at possible. When you hover your mouse over the banner up top, maybe have a tooltip box show what their current rating is.

    4.) Come up with a couple more innovative features (some of which I mentioned at the bash) to add to your revenue. New features will continue to make your site grow.

    If you can do this, and seperate yourself from the shadiness of this industry. You could catapult to the top, and help gamblers around the world. Commetns and additions very welcome.
  • Senator7
    SBR MVP
    • 08-20-05
    • 1559

    #2
    GJMike,

    Wow! Well said! I am in agreement with almost all you said, especially that the live lines should be the bread and butter of the site. I would propose that only those books with an B- rating (top 10%) or better be allowed to buy spots on the live lines. If you could keep the SBR Odds free and fast while allowing for a ton of books and customization options, this would quickly become the #1 sportsbetting website on the net even challenging places like The Rx and Major Wager. You don't need contests either. I would agree that you should shorten the list down to the Top 100 sportsbooks. This site has the potential to make a ton in revenue while keeping everything free for the player. This is a site that could show people the clean side of sportsbetting and bring it to the masses.

    Senator 7
    Comment
    • jjgold
      SBR Aristocracy
      • 07-20-05
      • 388179

      #3
      SBR is on it way to the top

      I would like to see Mikey involved somehow and Shrink involved
      Comment
      • SBR_John
        SBR Posting Legend
        • 07-12-05
        • 16471

        #4
        Mike thanks. I'm kind of a maniac ideas guy so I love these posts although the SBR staff has got to be thinking Oh Shiit! someone stop john from reading that post!!

        1) When you find a way to stop players from finding these joints let me know. Man we get people asking everyday 'I see you dont have a rating on WeJustOpenedToday.com sportsbook. What can you tell me about them. Thats the start of every rating.

        2) We will let folks talk. Non-sense will be moved to the private forum and the hate stuff the anti-semitic, gay bashing(except when I do it), and general hate will be removed.

        3) I just checked my email and I still dont see any resumes. Do you like burritos by any chance? :eek:

        4) Yes and thank you. We have some VERY nice features coming but I want to publish them before the copycats know what hit them.
        Comment
        • jjgold
          SBR Aristocracy
          • 07-20-05
          • 388179

          #5
          There really is no silly stuff here

          Mainly gambling stuff here

          Live lines are the big key here
          Comment
          • GJMike
            SBR Sharp
            • 08-11-05
            • 304

            #6
            My post got cut in half. I am selling one of my houses and someone just came over.

            1.) As far as people asking about xyz.com The next part of my post was about advertising. Really get the advertising out there that this is the #1 portal for information. Simple, if we dont list this book, you dont play there.

            2.) A good insurance and bond program while sounds good, doesnt really mean a thing to me. I just dont trust that it is really possible. This is an unregulated industry. You wont be insured, sorry.. but thats how it is. But if we could get a uniform seal much like VeriSign on certain books... players would be better off. If you were the official #1 seal of approval it would not only promote traffic, but help players.


            There is a lot this place can do with some blood and sweat. Take it from me. I know what it is like to take on giant competition, but with hard work, you can make it to #1.
            Comment
            • Senator7
              SBR MVP
              • 08-20-05
              • 1559

              #7
              That's the thing! You guys could take advertising money from sportsbooks without having it hurt your credibility. All you have to do is only accept money from books rated A- or higher and make sure you put that on the "About Us" page. If a book has their rating fall, they lose their advertising. So long as you rate them before you take the ad money and that you clearly state how it works, you don't lose credibility and you increase revenue.

              Senator 7
              Comment
              • GJMike
                SBR Sharp
                • 08-11-05
                • 304

                #8
                Originally posted by Senator7
                That's the thing! You guys could take advertising money from sportsbooks without having it hurt your credibility. All you have to do is only accept money from books rated A- or higher and make sure you put that on the "About Us" page. If a book has their rating fall, they lose their advertising. So long as you rate them before you take the ad money and that you clearly state how it works, you don't lose credibility and you increase revenue.

                Senator 7
                They dont have to stop taking money. They just have to tell them that it is a no-strings attached deal. And it really doesnt have to be called advertising. If it is low enough it honestly can be called a maintenance fee. The A- thing doesnt make too much sense to me. If they are D- and they still want to be listed, thats fine. Its still the same $100 rate. But you cant pay $100 and expect to be raised to an A+. Pay to be listed and clean up your act.
                Comment
                • Senator7
                  SBR MVP
                  • 08-20-05
                  • 1559

                  #9
                  I meant advertisers on the homepage should have to be A- or better. $100 maintenance fee to be listed in the ratings guide is fine with me. Sorry I didn't clarify.

                  Senator 7
                  Comment
                  • GJMike
                    SBR Sharp
                    • 08-11-05
                    • 304

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Senator7
                    I meant advertisers on the homepage should have to be A- or better. $100 maintenance fee to be listed in the ratings guide is fine with me. Sorry I didn't clarify.

                    Senator 7
                    There would really never be a need for advertisers at all. You pay maintenance fees for lines service, and to be listed on ratings guide. Your money is for listing only and does not buy an opinion. With those, and maybe 1-2 other innovative features this is a multi-million dollar site without any thing else.

                    The biggest problem with forums and advertising now is not who they choose to allow to advertise, but the terms on which the contract is drawn up. For instance, if you argue about an advertiser at certain forums, the thread will be deleted and you will be banned. For some reason this business model stuck and has forever tainted the forum business in my opinion.

                    It is going to take a new leader to seperate advertising from forums, and find a new way to generate ad revenue without the now common-place extorition tactics. I am hoping SBR is up to the challenge.

                    Because if they are not, I am going to have to throw my hat into yet another ring.
                    Comment
                    • Senator7
                      SBR MVP
                      • 08-20-05
                      • 1559

                      #11
                      I understand what you mean now. Thank you for explaining it more.

                      Personally, I think SBR will be up to the challenge. From what I've seen so far, there's no reason they shouldn't.

                      Senator 7
                      Comment
                      • GJMike
                        SBR Sharp
                        • 08-11-05
                        • 304

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Senator7
                        I understand what you mean now. Thank you for explaining it more.

                        Personally, I think SBR will be up to the challenge. From what I've seen so far, there's no reason they shouldn't.

                        Senator 7
                        I think so too. They have a young staff and seem hungry.
                        Comment
                        • SBR_John
                          SBR Posting Legend
                          • 07-12-05
                          • 16471

                          #13
                          Thanks guys. We have walked that fine line on advertising for a long time. Our business model is very simple...give us a refer a friend type deal just like you do with all your clients. That way we have no strings attached, no contracts, no nothing.

                          We have had many of bookies call us screaming and they all visit here so I have to be a bit guarded. We dont call them before we downgrade them and that really irks them. Our competitors crow that the books hate SBR but love the traffic so they comply. I think its a compliment.

                          I got a call playing golf in Vegas from a bookie that Bill refused to upgrade until a certain rule was modified, the rule was very unfair and we've had complaints. We talked about it and the rule was modified. We strive to be fair but we are not going to send them traffic via a strong rating unless they deserve it.
                          Comment
                          • GJMike
                            SBR Sharp
                            • 08-11-05
                            • 304

                            #14
                            Originally posted by SBR_John
                            Thanks guys. We have walked that fine line on advertising for a long time. Our business model is very simple...give us a refer a friend type deal just like you do with all your clients. That way we have no strings attached, no contracts, no nothing.

                            We have had many of bookies call us screaming and they all visit here so I have to be a bit guarded. We dont call them before we downgrade them and that really irks them. Our competitors crow that the books hate SBR but love the traffic so they comply. I think its a compliment.

                            I got a call playing golf in Vegas from a bookie that Bill refused to upgrade until a certain rule was modified, the rule was very unfair and we've had complaints. We talked about it and the rule was modified. We strive to be fair but we are not going to send them traffic via a strong rating unless they deserve it.
                            The books wasnt related to who you were playing golf with was it? Just messing with you.

                            Seriously, I would love to see this place have an open lines of communication and succeeed. If that were to happen I would probably stay exclusively over here. I may not have a huge following like JJ, but I am pretty knowledgable in many facets of this industry and could help out as much as possible.

                            One question, are you saying you dont take a straight up fee, rather affiliate %?
                            Comment
                            • jjgold
                              SBR Aristocracy
                              • 07-20-05
                              • 388179

                              #15
                              I spotted G-J Mike a while back and started touting his line service and now look at it. It is great and rivals DB.

                              He knows a ton about sportsbooks and sports betting programming.

                              He shoud write his own book software
                              Comment
                              • GJMike
                                SBR Sharp
                                • 08-11-05
                                • 304

                                #16
                                Originally posted by jjgold
                                I spotted G-J Mike a while back and started touting his line service and now look at it. It is great and rivals DB.

                                He knows a ton about sportsbooks and sports betting programming.

                                He shoud write his own book software
                                Whos to say I havent?
                                Comment
                                • Terris
                                  SBR Sharp
                                  • 08-23-05
                                  • 299

                                  #17
                                  dont change anything about SBR...its as good as it gets right now.
                                  And why cut down the amount of books? i already dont like this forum, really...
                                  Comment
                                  • GJMike
                                    SBR Sharp
                                    • 08-11-05
                                    • 304

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Terris
                                    dont change anything about SBR...its as good as it gets right now.
                                    And why cut down the amount of books? i already dont like this forum, really...
                                    Maybe its just me. But I dont quite understand your post. Would you mind clarifying?
                                    Comment
                                    • Terris
                                      SBR Sharp
                                      • 08-23-05
                                      • 299

                                      #19
                                      ok...i dont like your suggestions, im very satisfied with the SBR site as it is.
                                      And i hope it doesnt change at all
                                      I bet Bill has enough work to do without uncensoured forums or live lines (why not just go to the books and look them up yourself)
                                      Comment
                                      • GJMike
                                        SBR Sharp
                                        • 08-11-05
                                        • 304

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Terris
                                        ok...i dont like your suggestions, im very satisfied with the SBR site as it is.
                                        And i hope it doesnt change at all
                                        I bet Bill has enough work to do without uncensoured forums or live lines (why not just go to the books and look them up yourself)
                                        The point is this:

                                        A site like this, which must be hosted in CR has expenses. Bandwidth is more expensive down there, office space, someone to run it, etc...

                                        Nobody expects anyone to work for free, or worse yet lose money, but they do want the operation to be honest. I think the best way to do that is to have open lines of communication and provide the least conflict of interest as possible.

                                        Enter a non-advertising website. But how can you do that without working for free? Simple, charge less per ad-spot and make it a no strings attached contract. Lease the 'SBR Official Sign of Approval' to alll sites who wish to be listed. The Cost? $100. What is it? A simple javascript that loads on the sportsbook website that shows the current rank. Believe me, sportsbooks would pay it for the exposure it gives them. They also dont want a badge that says D+, so it would force most of them to clean up their act. Group that with a strong push from online gamblers to make SBR #1, the books have no choice but to clean up their act.

                                        Believe me, the players are ready for change. They are just waiting for an honest person to come forward and offer that change. Whoever cuts out the bullshit and greed is poised to be #1. And a multi-million dollar per year site aint too shabby. It can be done with honesty in tact, and benefit the players.

                                        So now onto your question about why a line service, which I have been outlining in this message (hopefully the length didnt scare you from reading). A forum wont cut it anymore. A rating system wont cut it alone because we all know the site needs to make money. If they are rating with an unbiased opinion, where is the money coming from? The line service of course. SBR can build the best Free Live Line service on the net. recreational gamblers who cant justify paying $250 for G&JUpdate, or $550 for the competition will come in flocks to use this useful service.

                                        To me the whole thing is very simple. I may be missing something, but the longer I think about it the more ideas come to mind on how to be a successful businessman as well as a hero and much needed restorer to this industry.
                                        Comment
                                        • SBR_John
                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                          • 07-12-05
                                          • 16471

                                          #21
                                          I like the seal of approval idea but your plan has some complications. Books we rate below A+ would not want the seal because they would fear players would find SBR and pick a higher rated book. So what do you do if a real good book does not want to pay the fee? Exclude them?

                                          I love your passion and the seal idea is a good one. I happen to really believe in the model and direction of SBR. You will appreciate this that the forum ops all laughed at SBR in the early days but they ain't laughing anymore.

                                          My plan is a bit different than yours because I dont want to collect set fees from books and have to be objective and rate them. We sell advertising here and it is about the most expensive ad space in the industry and its not available to sportsbooks. More space is being offered in Oct.
                                          Comment
                                          • jjgold
                                            SBR Aristocracy
                                            • 07-20-05
                                            • 388179

                                            #22
                                            The SBR plan is working as they have most book sign ups in the world. The numbers are very very strong and I would not fool with anything.
                                            Comment
                                            • why
                                              SBR Sharp
                                              • 08-10-05
                                              • 447

                                              #23
                                              My main concern is the rating system. It has to be fair without bias and discerning.

                                              I am not sure the +,- is necessary but more written analysis would be appreciated.

                                              Sweeping generalizations are inappropriate, "they have no track record", I want to know how long they have been in business and in that time have they fullfilled their obligations as a sportsbook, not "they have only been in business a year"!

                                              I would prefer to know about new books, who they are, what their background is, etc..., I love competition its good for everyone.

                                              Bring on some "new blood"! The usual suspects are fine but predictable, lets give other knowledgable people a chance to discuss the books, no offense to Shrink and the Major but I think they have become a trite over-confident with their assesments of the industry and I am not sure how their pockets are lined.
                                              Comment
                                              • Brooks
                                                SBR Wise Guy
                                                • 08-24-05
                                                • 866

                                                #24
                                                GJMike has alot of good ideas. i for one believe that SBR is in a unique position to become the only real voice in the offshore industry and except for getting caught up in the BetPanam hoopla like everyone else they have proven to be the only source for credible sportbook reviews.

                                                the live line feature will be paramount to the success of the new SBR as alot of people wont even bother checking the RX line service anymore without pinnacle and i cant see any reason to even view the rx posts anymore with the nonsense being spewed even by the moderators like this gem of a reposted article

                                                1. Not knowing what it takes to be a winner.
                                                Being driven by unreality and false hopes. It takes 52.38% winners to break even. Seasoned pros understand that at least 50% of all pointspread decisions are decided by serendipity…a random stroke of good or bad fortune. Respect, even fear, the Luck Factor. Be satisfied with anything around 60% winners and be grateful for anything above it.

                                                i had high hopes for EOG based on what the shrink stated a few months back but when i saw picks for sale from very "dubious" cappers to say the least and watching the mods going into many posts pushing their sportsbooks i just had to shake my head in disbelief.

                                                i love the idea of only having the top 100 sportbooks and having SBR help me with any problems (very rare) that i might encounter with those top 100 and i will gladly sign up under your name with the only expectation of helping me if the situation calls for it.

                                                if someone wants to take a risk with a book that isnt in the top 100 because of a 40% bonus then let them find help elsewhere. SBR shouldnt be wasting resources on trying to get money from a "D" sportsbook as they should just focus on those top 100 as it would cause competition especially amongst the top 10 and the bottom 10 as being dropped would most definitely hurt their bottom line; and more importantly posters and visitors of your site would be almost forced to only go with the top 100 and that is a longterm positive for the players and industry alike.

                                                then the only thing that is left is give me a free line service where i can pick and choose amongst the top 100 books with a 30 second or hopefully less delay and come up with a way to make a decent profit from that endeavor. i wouldnt have any reason to leave this place and id imagine many people would feel the same way.

                                                good luck with everything.









                                                Comment
                                                • Bill Dozer
                                                  www.twitter.com/BillDozer
                                                  • 07-12-05
                                                  • 10894

                                                  #25
                                                  Welcome Brooks and thanks for your feedback!

                                                  I can appreciate the more educated player wanting to see SBR focus its attention on the benefits of the industry and expecting the newbie player to do adequate research before joining a book.

                                                  The reality is that there are many more players taking Gambling 101 than there are taking advanced classes. The industry is so young that newbies will outweigh the veterans for many years to come and like a lot of us, they land here because the first sportsbook was not a superb choice. It is easy for green players to get caught in the marketing webs spun by unproven operations.

                                                  SBR also serves as a very effective deterrent for dishonest books. There are many that will do what they please but there are more that realize a bad rating will keep them from ever gaining the momentum to compete out of the gates. SBR plays a part in scammers tossing in the towel. If you followed the VipBetZone scammers you may have seen that they do not even bother investing in their new site brands once they are exposed.

                                                  The most rewarding part of working with this company is helping players recover funds. Covering the books from A to Z is what gives us the leverage we have. Actually, the leverage comes with having earned a loyal reader base; many of whom found us due to their involvement with a garbage sportsbook.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • Bill Dozer
                                                    www.twitter.com/BillDozer
                                                    • 07-12-05
                                                    • 10894

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by why
                                                    My main concern is the rating system. It has to be fair without bias and discerning.

                                                    I am not sure the +,- is necessary but more written analysis would be appreciated.

                                                    Sweeping generalizations are inappropriate, "they have no track record", I want to know how long they have been in business and in that time have they fullfilled their obligations as a sportsbook, not "they have only been in business a year"!

                                                    I would prefer to know about new books, who they are, what their background is, etc..., I love competition its good for everyone.
                                                    Why,

                                                    I agree with you about having more background information on every book. That is why we added the drop down menus where you can sort by management and software.

                                                    The rating guide is evolving and will soon offer a mini review on almost all of the 700 or so books listed. The idea is to be able to click on the book name and see all of the information we have gathered when performing an evaluation.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • Illusion
                                                      Restricted User
                                                      • 08-09-05
                                                      • 25166

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Bill Dozer
                                                      The rating guide is evolving and will soon offer a mini review on almost all of the 700 or so books listed. The idea is to be able to click on the book name and see all of the information we have gathered when performing an evaluation.
                                                      Excellent idea. SBR just keeps getting better and better.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • jjgold
                                                        SBR Aristocracy
                                                        • 07-20-05
                                                        • 388179

                                                        #28
                                                        I think all books should be rated because we still have tons of guys playing at obscure books

                                                        I think at times SBR does not have a lot of info on some books so he rates them a D to be safe.

                                                        You know some books are hard to get info on
                                                        Comment
                                                        • SBR_John
                                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                                          • 07-12-05
                                                          • 16471

                                                          #29
                                                          We have TONS of great research coming out this football season. Some if it is very funny and some is downright hardcore.

                                                          But we can't pre announce anything anymore because of the copycats. Last year it was SBRLines, Sportsbook selector, Email evaluation tests and Sitemeter.

                                                          We will try to out do last year!
                                                          Comment
                                                          • Clip Joint
                                                            SBR High Roller
                                                            • 08-10-05
                                                            • 200

                                                            #30
                                                            The fact that you keep looking towards the future and adding new things is why you will be the top dog. The days where the forums can just sit there and collect pay checks from books is almost up. There are just too many of them now and they all have the same traffic. Books finally realize the best advertising they get in forums is in the poster discussions...not useless banners.

                                                            What sense does it make for a book to pay top dollar on 3 sites when they all have the same traffic?
                                                            Comment
                                                            • THE SHRINK
                                                              SBR High Roller
                                                              • 08-10-05
                                                              • 110

                                                              #31
                                                              Clipper,

                                                              I also agree with you and I have high hopes for SBR...

                                                              I REALLY like the direction they are going in and we will do whatever we can at EOG to support their efforts...

                                                              John, Bill nad company are GREAT people who really care...

                                                              THE SHRINK
                                                              Comment
                                                              • Clip Joint
                                                                SBR High Roller
                                                                • 08-10-05
                                                                • 200

                                                                #32
                                                                Shrink,

                                                                I think your business plan is well ahead of the "forum" business. You don't seem to be going after that business model. You are also taking the stance of not allowing shit books to advertise which will also seperate you from money hungry forums that will sell their reputation for a quick buck.

                                                                I think the tout pick sales could be a nice piece of revenue (just not with the cappers you currently have...lol).

                                                                Your site is more content driven and once people start to utilize and become more familiar with the different aspects of your site, that will help things continue to take off.

                                                                TheRX will always have tons of traffic and tons of great posters...but they won't always have the nice revenue checks from the sponsors.
                                                                Comment
                                                                • jjgold
                                                                  SBR Aristocracy
                                                                  • 07-20-05
                                                                  • 388179

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Clipper you said the key................

                                                                  Content driven is the way to go now

                                                                  Covers knew this a long time ago, forums are good also
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • SBR_John
                                                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                                                    • 07-12-05
                                                                    • 16471

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Thanks Ken and I wish you success as well.

                                                                    We all agree its content. Yea sometimes kicking russ or sting around kills a little time but thats not what real players want.

                                                                    Its all about content and information and delivering it to new and veteran players in a entertaining, free and simple method.
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • pags11
                                                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                                                      • 08-18-05
                                                                      • 12264

                                                                      #35
                                                                      great thread here...this is a quality site...thanks a bunch for helping me find some "real" sportsbooks guys..
                                                                      Comment
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