Opinions on the recent Sportsbook.com theft.

[SBR_John]

Thought I'd search around and get some opinions. Feel free to let them know how you feel.

First one is from a well known majorwager.com poster named TheGuesser. A poster at mw since June 2000

"MW has their banner up also and it should be removed, along with racebook.com and sportsbetting.com, until/unless this is made right. This is a disgrace, and unless they pay these people, this is the end of the sportsbook.com/world gaming/jazzette/starnet family. They survived the recent slow pay/processor issues. poor customer service over the years, but their intentions were always honorable. This is different. This is outrght, blatant stealing. They took the bets, they pay the bets. It's very simple. Don't go back a month and steal people's money because your software isn't adequate. They are nothing but flat out crooks if they are allowed to get away with this. I'd urge anyone with a balance to get your money out ASAP because this is the action of a rogue outfit that will steal your money for any reason they want to. It pains me to say this, because I've been a player at this family for almost 10 years, and have usually defended them, but this is "Black Rhino" indefensible for those that remember that fiasco."

[jjgold]

Anyone advertising sportsbook.com should be ashamed of themselves and the site then has no credibility.

Sportsbook.com should be black listed

[ShamsWoof10]

Sportsbook.com should be black listed

God let's make it obvious you are not on their payroll... JJ this is like the HS football story last month it got too ridiculous to be believable... Keep it tame son...

[jjgold]

Who's payroll?

[Dark Horse]

Start a Hall of Shame with WANTED posters for the owners of scam books.

http://www.glassgiant.com/wanted/

[HedgeHog]

SBR John:

Couldn't have said it better myself. TheGuesser is dead on!

[RickySteve]

There is a good thread with highly respected posters on LVASports about the Sportsbook.com theft. That forum and this one have the highest signal-to-noise ratio.

http://forums.lasvegasadvisor.com/messageview.cfm?catid=36&threadid=255558

[SBR_John]

Thanks Ricky, missed that one.

[ShamsWoof10]

I read a lot of that thread from TheRx as I am always open to new information to alter my opinion.. An example that was given of a correlated parlay was interesting.. It was a first half one and I am interested to know if anyone or any parlay involved had first halfs with the side and total...

HDog can you please cut and paste some of your parlays as I am quite interested in this... If I conclude I am wrong I will say so...

[SBR_John]

Sham they allowed these bets for 10 years. They did not refund any that lost. They took the bet, lost, and then took ALL the money including the wagered amnount. What possibly could you be shown that would cause you to side with the book?

[HedgeHog]

Shams: Here are some of my correlated pars. As you know, SB bet history only goes back 30 days, so I don't have access to all my pars.



11) BET ID=221853088
Parlay (2 Teams) 10/06/07 06:51 ET
bet 300.00 to win 845.45 Result: Wager Lost

1SFlorida 1stHalf 7
1FloridaAtl 1stHalf 7 10/06/07(15:40 ET)
1SFlorida -9.5

1SFlorida 1stHalf 7
1FloridaAtl 1stHalf 7 10/06/07(15:40 ET)
Over 24 (even)




12) BET ID=221852864
Parlay (2 Teams) 10/06/07 06:44 ET
bet 300.00 to win 818.18 (paid 1118.18) Result: Wager Won

1NotreDame 1stHalf 3
1UCLA 1stHalf 6 10/06/07(20:05 ET)
1NotreDame +11.5 (-105)

1NotreDame 1stHalf 3
1UCLA 1stHalf 6 10/06/07(20:05 ET)
Under 26

[Justin7]

John,

I didn't want to jump in until the rest of SBR had a chance to try to talk to them. Here's my conclusions though: 1. This is an illegal forfeiture. 2. A book that blatantly steals (as in this case) will do so again against any substantial winning player; this likelihood warrants an "F" rating. 3. Sportsbook.com operates under the laws of Curacao. Players probably have a legal remedy in Curacao, since this is so flagrant.

I hope you have better luck than I did speaking with them. If Sportsbook.com refuses to fix things, I'd suggest getting an inventory of all the thefts, advising the players to gather their evidence before it disappears, and bringing a legal action.

[SBR_John]

Thanks Justin.

They attempted to raise cash today by selling one of their domain names but it flopped at auction.

This reminds me of the last days at BOS when they were getting desperate. They saved a $180,000 on this theft so maybe they are ok or maybe this is just the start?

In either case, its a dark day for the industry.

[paul Mordeeb]

In a related topic, Absolute Poker has let a theft happen and did nothing about it. Pocketfives.com an affiliot, pulled all links and advertising in responce to Management doing nothing about the theft.

people should do all they can to discourage people from going to SB.com when they are stealing from people!!!

F rated needed.

Your poker ratings should lower Absolute Poker right away too!!!

[ShamsWoof10]

SBR_John I would like to mention again it's being consistant or not being consistant that I have a problem with...

Let me for a second admittingly assume that one of the parlays that was rejected was a first half parlay with a side and total... What reaction do you think someone would get if they came on and said "I put a parlay at the Greek UNDER 17 and +10 for the first half and they confiscated it"... People here would jump all over that person for trying to steal from the book....

Now then they would consider it stealing because the player had the intent to do so by playing such parlays NOT BECAUSE THE BOOK DID OR DID NOT TAKE IT!!! Stealing is stealing John... As they are considering the intent of the guy about SIA... They accepted them for months but people went after the intent... As I said was this one incident that got in the line of fire with a new change in terms now no longer allowing parlays..? It's as I said during the withdraw period... let's see how it works out... It's not great now but it's ok and about like Bodog in time frame for checks... People thought they were going under and had a knee jerk reaction....

Well they decided they don't want to take parlays THEY SHOULDN'T TAKE ANYWAY AND YA'LL KNOW IT... Did they handle it wrong ...yeah... is this the first book to handle a change wrong ...NO!! It's in their terms as well as every books that they can do things like this...

[ShamsWoof10]

Shams: Here are some of my correlated pars. As you know, SB bet history only goes back 30 days, so I don't have access to all my pars.



11) BET ID=221853088
Parlay (2 Teams) 10/06/07 06:51 ET
bet 300.00 to win 845.45 Result: Wager Lost

1SFlorida 1stHalf 7
1FloridaAtl 1stHalf 7 10/06/07(15:40 ET)
1SFlorida -9.5

1SFlorida 1stHalf 7
1FloridaAtl 1stHalf 7 10/06/07(15:40 ET)
Over 24 (even)




12) BET ID=221852864
Parlay (2 Teams) 10/06/07 06:44 ET
bet 300.00 to win 818.18 (paid 1118.18) Result: Wager Won

1NotreDame 1stHalf 3
1UCLA 1stHalf 6 10/06/07(20:05 ET)
1NotreDame +11.5 (-105)

1NotreDame 1stHalf 3
1UCLA 1stHalf 6 10/06/07(20:05 ET)
Under 26

WELL F*CKIN' DUUUUUUUHHHHHHHH!!!!

OMG you people are unreal...

IF THIS IS THE CASE THEN THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT AND YOU KNOW IT JOHN!!!!

Yeah John I'll tell my wide left story to those people... What the f*ck are you thinking???? Wide left short bad snap... sh*t hold.. WTF man... In this particular case anyway because I do not know of the specifics of others but if they are all like this then they are right and everyone knows it....

[HedgeHog]

IF THIS IS THE CASE THEN THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT AND YOU KNOW IT JOHN!!!!

Yeah John I'll tell my wide left story to those people... What the f*ck are you thinking???? Wide left short bad snap... sh*t hold.. WTF man... In this particular case anyway because I do not know of the specifics of others but if they are all like this then they are right and everyone knows it....

There's nothing wrong with parlaying the 1st half Side to 1st half Total, assuming the software allows it. And by the way, the S Fla/ Fla Atl 1st half par was acceptable at other places besides SB. So what's this "everyone" shit--and again how much is SB.com paying you?

[ShamsWoof10]

There's nothing wrong with parlaying the 1st half Side to 1st half Total, assuming the software allows it. And by the way, the S Fla/ Fla Atl 1st half par was acceptable at other places besides SB. So what's this "everyone" shit--and again how much is SB.com paying you?

Dude I didn't know there was either but when the topic of correlated parlays and If bets came up I was told NEVER to do that and not to be surpised if you get f*cked one day... If this is ok to do then what the guy from SIA did was ok too... They accepted his bets for months..so let's be consistant here....

Let's see if they fixed the software because if they did then in my opinion all is well and they just made a change THEY SHOULD MAKE... I want Sportsbook.com to stay in buisness and not have people with intent to steal rip them off... I actually don't think you had the intent though or I get the feeling you didn't know... I bet bad lines before and had sh*t happen to me but I didn't know either... I was new...

Lastly I wish SBoo would pay me my $800 payout instead of making me fax all this sh*t but I can see why they want it..

[prop]

You got to be kidding..
Betting correlated parlays is not even close to stealing and if any book canceled the wager after the game was started claiming the bet should be void because of the correlation they are wrong. Its their job to decide which bets can and can't be parlayed not the bettors. This is not even close to betting into a soft line.

Taking -9.5 and over 24 in a parlay "MIGHT" BE bad decision by the book but its not steeling for someone to take advantage of.

[JBC77]

I just don't understand why they would do this to their customers? Are they in trouble financially? Someone had to know, at the top of the company, that this would be a horrible business move.

[JC]

How about all advertising outs getting together and dropping all sportsbook.com banners and placing any monies left on account in a player's relief fund?

As far as I know they are advertising at:

Covers
EOG
MW
Rx
TOW

Probably several other places. They have a lot of front ends.

[DrunkenLullaby]

WELL F*CKIN' DUUUUUUUHHHHHHHH!!!!

OMG you people are unreal...

IF THIS IS THE CASE THEN THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT AND YOU KNOW IT JOHN!!!!

Yeah John I'll tell my wide left story to those people... What the f*ck are you thinking???? Wide left short bad snap... sh*t hold.. WTF man... In this particular case anyway because I do not know of the specifics of others but if they are all like this then they are right and everyone knows it....

Shams, in all the years I have bet with Olympic, they have never, ever disallowed a parlay involving a 1st half pointspread of 7 and a 1st half total of 24. On the other hand, over half the time they will lock out parlays on a 1st half pointspread of 10 and a 1st half total of 24. On the other hand CRIS locks out most of the games with a 1st half pointspread of 7 and a 1H total of 24. Do you see the point we're getting at here? Every book has they're own discretion on which games they want & which they don't. The threshold cannot possibly be left up to the customer unless you stipulate flatly that NO such parlays (even if the spread was 1/2 pt and the total was 30). Barring such a blanket stipulation, the book must be responsible for locking out certain games they don't want via the software. There is no other solution.

[ShamsWoof10]

You got to be kidding..
Betting correlated parlays is not even close to stealing and if any book canceled the wager after the game was started claiming the bet should be void because of the correlation they are wrong. Its their job to decide which bets can and can't be parlayed not the bettors. This is not even close to betting into a soft line.

Taking -9.5 and over 24 in a parlay "MIGHT" BE bad decision by the book but its not steeling for someone to take advantage of.

Perhaps stealing is over stating but it is also over stating when betting bad lines too because it's THEIR responsiblity NOT MINE to move them... I'm not a lines maker... How about TheGreek calling a bad line bad... That makes me more unconfortable then this... This is not that bad because if they corrected the software that's it it's done and over with.. a bad line a book decides is a bad line or they were too lazy to get their as* up and move it can happen anytime and time after time... YOU ALWAYS HAvE TO BE AWARE!!!

Well one of the things they changed was correlated bases and I had WIllie Bee PM me and ask me what book was it that I was playing at that took them because he didn't know of any...

Can anyone name books that take correlated bases under with the plus line AS AN EXAMPLE..? Why should sportsbook not change it..? it is something they needed to change there is NO DOUBT and as I said maybe the change didn't go smooth but they are stupid to take bets like these and everyone knows it....

[ShamsWoof10]

Shams, in all the years I have bet with Olympic, they have never, ever disallowed a parlay involving a 1st half pointspread of 7 and a 1st half total of 24. On the other hand, over half the time they will lock out parlays on a 1st half pointspread of 10 and a 1st half total of 24. On the other hand CRIS locks out most of the games with a 1st half pointspread of 7 and a 1H total of 24. Do you see the point we're getting at here? Every book has they're own discretion on which games they want & which they don't. The threshold cannot possibly be left up to the customer unless you stipulate flatly that NO such parlays (even if the spread was 1/2 pt and the total was 30). Barring such a blanket stipulation, the book must be responsible for locking out certain games they don't want via the software. There is no other solution.

Well I can certainly agree with this but do keep in mind there has been many changes with their new software and interface and it's as I said if they get their software to the point at which Greek has theirs then good for Sportsbook.com and this was a simple and rough transition just like the delay... I don't think what happened is at all a big deal although I do feel bad for people who lost money in this...

After the Royal merger I figured that must be why they put things in their T&A because they probably know an interface or some sh*t goes wrong...

I wish I had a fax machine...

[RickySteve]

How about all advertising outs getting together and dropping all sportsbook.com banners and placing any monies left on account in a player's relief fund?

As far as I know they are advertising at:

Covers
EOG
MW
Rx
TOW

Probably several other places. They have a lot of front ends.

Mr. Cohen,

Do you know anything about their organizational structure and location? Conflicting sources say they're located in Malta, Curacao, Costa Rica & Ireland.

What is the relationship between the seemingly countless skins and the parent?

Any insight you can provide would be appreciated.

[HedgeHog]

Shams:

SB has every right to change their software and not allow certain pars. But they have no right to go back 6 weeks and disallow bets they no longer like now. It's theft, plain and simple.

[ShamsWoof10]

Shams:

SB has every right to change their software and not allow certain pars. But they have no right to go back 6 weeks and disallow bets they no longer like now. It's theft, plain and simple.

I had really no issues with what Sportsbook.com did because others have done "similar" things HOWEVER the bold is the one part I do have a problem with and going back 6 weeks is bullsh*t I do agree there... I play correlated IF bets not parlays all the time with halfs and I haven't heard anything yet from them... This must be just for parlays... I am not even going to check I want the fear of confiscation in me because I shouldn't play if bets anyway I keep getting the first right and second wrong.. I hate that especially when I took the second part not because I like it but because I am greedy...

[HedgeHog]

10.16.2007 (02:32 PM CST)

BetUSA (SBR rating D+), a Sportsbook.com serviced book, agrees to pay on all voided same-game (correlated) winning parlays. BetUSA ownership has often reversed unfair decisions by its service provider on issues ranging from incorrect bet grading to bonus and wagering disputes. Players whose BetUSA balances were debited should contact SBR or BetUSA ownership by email. SBR is still communicating with Sportsbook.com regarding the decision to confiscate these winnings across all of the sites under its management.

Now there's a step in the right direction. I wonder how many people at BetUSA will benefit. Will parent company SB.com follow suit?

[ShamsWoof10]

10.16.2007 (02:32 PM CST)

BetUSA (SBR rating D+), a Sportsbook.com serviced book, agrees to pay on all voided same-game (correlated) winning parlays. BetUSA ownership has often reversed unfair decisions by its service provider on issues ranging from incorrect bet grading to bonus and wagering disputes. Players whose BetUSA balances were debited should contact SBR or BetUSA ownership by email. SBR is still communicating with Sportsbook.com regarding the decision to confiscate these winnings across all of the sites under its management.

Now there's a step in the right direction. I wonder how many people at BetUSA will benefit. Will parent company SB.com follow suit?

That's why they WOOOF!

SBR_John I stick with my ratings... B book... As I said that was bullsh*t to go BACK and take winnings away... They went beyond that and again they didn't make me look bad for sticking up for them...

You're ratings might be sh*t but your intensions for players more then makes up for it... Those things don't mean anything anyway.. Nice job SBR... Can hit sh*t for FG's but you can booom a hell of a kickoff...

[Dark Horse]

Not that hard for a book to make sure their software does what it's supposed to do, instead of trapping players. These players were not taking shots at the book, and if sportsbook.com doesn't understand the difference let the sword of public opinion cut their throat.

This is all over the forums. No way sportsbook.com is going to come out ahead here. Damage control is their only option.

[HedgeHog]

Shams:

Let's not get ahead of ourselves; this is just one affiliate doing the right thing. SB.com needs to follow their example, otherwise they need to be dropped in their rating IMO.

[increasedodds]

This is 100% thievery by sportsbook, etc...

They have allowed correlated parlays for years and years and years and have taken a beating on it forever..

There new set of rules seems to indicate correlated parlays are not allowed, but their examples are things like Red Sox to win division and Red Sox to win World Series. No where does it say you can not parlay a spread and total... Beyond this, things like Red Sox and Red Sox will not go through. Neither will Bills 1st half and Bills game... Spreads to totals did go through no problem.

People beat on them for years. We all knew this was coming at some point and it sucks...

I believe they got by on neteller money in to meet money out and now they are screwed.

Anyways, it is theft. They booked these bets and they need to pay them.

I will nearly guarantee they did not refund all their customers who happened to place anti correlated parlays (And this happens... I've asked at least 2 sportsbook managers why they allow correlated parlays after I got told no more and was told - we can tell you no more and some idiots play the reverse...)

-Sean

[20Four7]

I don't see how a spread and a total is "bad" parlay. Monday night games especially have been known for last ditch efforts to get even by betting Giants/over falcons under or whatever. If they don't want them don't allow them but don't allow them then backtrack and steal the money. Worse you don't re imburse the losers is plain wrong. This book is a sad sad case in this industry. It's books like this that are causing problems for everyone.

[SBR_John]

BetUSA should get an upgrade. That took some balls.

[JBC77]

Yeah, but John, whats the motivation behind a move like that? Why would someone pull a self destruct move like that on a company?

They have to be bleeding money to pull something like that. You just don't up and rob your customers like that?