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  • BatemanPatrickl
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 06-21-07
    • 18772

    #1
    Blackwater...
    What a mess! Another politically backed money maker causing death and destruction in another part of the world.
  • capitalist pig
    SBR MVP
    • 01-25-07
    • 4998

    #2
    Originally posted by BatemanPatrickl
    What a mess! Another politically backed money maker causing death and destruction in another part of the world.
    Aint it great! Gotta love these guys, take a shot at us and we return 100 times the fire and kill everything within range. My son tells me these guys run/guard convoys that US troops wont even touch. He also tells me when there is a fire fight involving US troops, the Blackwater guys are the 1st to arrive and support the regular army guys. No questions asked.

    Since my kid is over there gettin his a$$ shot at, Im all for Blackwater doing whatever the f they want.JMO

    later
    Comment
    • BatemanPatrickl
      SBR Posting Legend
      • 06-21-07
      • 18772

      #3
      Originally posted by capitalist pig
      Aint it great! Gotta love these guys, take a shot at us and we return 100 times the fire and kill everything within range. My son tells me these guys run/guard convoys that US troops wont even touch. He also tells me when there is a fire fight involving US troops, the Blackwater guys are the 1st to arrive and support the regular army guys. No questions asked.

      Since my kid is over there gettin his a$$ shot at, Im all for Blackwater doing whatever the f they want.JMO

      later
      I am all for it as well CP but it looks like they open fired on a crowd of innocent people. There has to be some control in place and from what I read, these guys come in like it's the Wild Wild West.

      Also, the Blackwater employees are making probably 4 times what your son makes which is complete bullshit.
      Comment
      • pico
        BARRELED IN @ SBR!
        • 04-05-07
        • 27321

        #4


        mercs, better them dying then risking americans
        Comment
        • pico
          BARRELED IN @ SBR!
          • 04-05-07
          • 27321

          #5
          Between 2005 and september 2007 Blackwater security staff was involved in 195 shooting incedents, in 163 of those cases Blackwater personel fired first. 25 members of staff have been sacked for violations of Blackwaters drug and alchol policy and 28 more for weapons related incidents.

          they're bunch of cowboys
          Comment
          • pico
            BARRELED IN @ SBR!
            • 04-05-07
            • 27321

            #6
            According to the State Department, on December 24, 2006, a drunken Blackwater employee shot and killed a body guard who was protecting the Iraqi vice president. The US State Department was aware of the incident and recommended that a $250,000 payment be made to the victim's family. Blackwater claimed that such a payment would be "too large" and would encourage other Iraqi to try to "get killed". They offered to pay out $15,000, which the State Department agreed to.
            Comment
            • pico
              BARRELED IN @ SBR!
              • 04-05-07
              • 27321

              #7
              these mercs don't **** around...

              And on May 30, 2007, Blackwater employees shot an Iraqi civilian deemed to have been "driving too close" to a State Department convoy being escorted by Blackwater contractors.[
              Comment
              • pico
                BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                • 04-05-07
                • 27321

                #8


                this is the incident batemanp was talking about....sad
                Comment
                • pico
                  BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                  • 04-05-07
                  • 27321

                  #9
                  According to an Iraqi investigation into the events at Nissor Square, as the convoy drew close to Nissor Square, a car, driving very slowly, on the wrong side of the road, ignored a police officer's whistle to clear a path for the convoy. Shortly after this, the security team fired warning shots, and then lethal fire. Sound bombs were also fired. Iraqi Army soldiers, mistaking the sound-bombs for explosions, opened fire at the Blackwater team, to which the Blackwater team responded.[4][5] A Reuters report showed some of the vehicles which were left at the scene.[6]

                  Iraqi Brigadier-General Abdul-Karim Khalaf has stated that a mortar landed close to the convoy and said the US firm had 'opened fire randomly at citizens'. Among those killed was one policeman. No State Department officials were wounded or killed.[7] The State Department had not been notified of the Iraqi government's decision to revoke the license, and declined to speculate how it might affect State Department activities. Many doubt that the Iraqi government will have the resolve to revoke Blackwater's license over the long term due to Blackwater's political influence and other factors. Retired Marine Lt. Col. Bill Cowan, an independent military analyst and co-chairman of security consulting firm WVC3 Group, was quoted on September 17, 2007, by the Associated Press as saying: "You can bet the U.S. embassy is doing backflips right now pressuring the Iraqis not to revoke their license."[8]

                  According to Blackwater, a Vehicle Borne Improvised Explosive Device (VBIED) detonated close to the meeting point.[9]. The security team then evacuated the officials. As the convoy passed through Nissor Square, between the Sunni controlled al-Mansour and al-Yarmukh neighborhoods, it was attacked. According to Blackwater VP Marty Strong, it was hit with "a large explosive device" and "repeated small arms fire" disabling one of the vehicles.[9] Several sources have stated that the explosion was caused by a mortar round, though this is not reflected in the Department of State incident report.[10][11] A State Department report states that eight to ten attackers then opened fire "from multiple nearby locations, with some aggressors dressed in civilian apparel and others in Iraqi police uniforms". As the convoy tried to escape, its route was blocked by insurgents armed with machine guns. According to the incident report, the attack occurred at 12:08pm and goes on to state that "The team returned fire to several identified targets" before leaving the area, and that a second convoy en route to help was "blocked/surrounded by several Iraqi police and Iraqi national guard vehicles and armed personnel".[12] A US Army convoy, possibly the same one delayed by Iraqi forces, arrived approximately a half hour later, backed by air cover, to escort the convoy back to the Green Zone.[9] A Blackwater helicopter was also present at some point during the attack, and according to a Washington Post employee, it fired several times from the air, although Blackwater has denied this.[13]
                  Comment
                  • pico
                    BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                    • 04-05-07
                    • 27321

                    #10
                    The Private Security Company Association of Iraq, in a document last updated on July 3, 2007, lists Blackwater as having applied for, though not yet as having received, the license in question.[14] Blackwater's operations on behalf of the US Department of State and the CIA might be unaffected by this claimed license revocation.[15] Also, it is not clear whether the license revocation is permanent.[16] Nonetheless, the banning was described by Peter W. Singer, an expert on the private military industry, as "inevitable," given the US governments' reliance on and lack of oversight of the private military industry in Iraq.[17] However, on September 18th, Gen. Abdul Kareem Khalaf, an Interior Ministry spokesman, said "As of now, they are not allowed to operate anywhere in the Republic of Iraq". Spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh stated that the ban would last for the duration of the investigation, and that it would not be permanent.[9]

                    Blackwater has denied any wrongdoing in the incident.[18] The U.S. State Department said it plans to investigate what it calls a "terrible incident."[3] According to Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has promised a "fair and transparent" investigation into the incident. Blackwater has stated that its contractors acted "heroically" in their defense against "armed insurgents, not civilians, and our people did their job to defend human life."[9] Henry Waxman, the chair of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, which held hearings on the use of Private Security Contractors in February 2007 said his committee would hold hearings "to understand what has happened and the extent of the damage to U.S. security interests."[18] Waxman stated that "the controversy over Blackwater is an unfortunate demonstration of the perils of excessive reliance on private security contractors".[9]

                    On September 19, the United States suspended all land travel by U.S. diplomats and other civilian officials in Iraq outside Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone as a result of public outrage over the alleged killing of civilians by Blackwater employees. The order confines most Americans to a 3.5-square-mile area in the center of the city so that they are unable to visit other areas without travelling in a helicopter. The order did not say when the suspension would expire.[19]

                    Unlike many deaths blamed on foreign contractors, this shooting took place in downtown Baghdad, an area with dozens of witnesses. "We see the security firms ... doing whatever they want in the streets. They beat citizens and scorn them," Baghdad resident Halim Mashkoor claimed to AP Television News. He asked, "if such a thing happened in America or Britain, would the American president or American citizens accept it?"[19] Hasan Jaber Salman, one of the wounded and an Iraqi lawyer, charged that "no one did anything to provoke Blackwater" and that "as we turned back they opened fire at all cars from behind"[20] An Iraqi police officer who was directing traffic at the scene said Blackwater guards "became the terrorists" when they opened fire on civilians unprovoked, while a businessman said he wasn't seeking compensation but only "the truth" from the guards.[21] After a group of Iraqi ministers backed the Iraqi Interior Ministry's decision to shut down Blackwater USA's operations in Iraq,[9]Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki called on the U.S. government to end its contract with Blackwater USA as well.[22]

                    On September 21, CNN reported that Blackwater would resume normal operations the following day. The State Department has announced an American-Iraqi joint commission to investigate both the shooting and the use of private security contractors as a broader issue. The committee will be co-chaired by Abd al Qadir, the Iraqi Minister of Defense and Patricia A. Butenis, the Charge d'Affaires of the U.S. Embassy in Iraq.[23]

                    On September 22, Iraqi investigators announced that they have a videotape that shows Blackwater USA contractors opening fire against civilians without provocation. Maj. Gen. Abdul-Karim Khalaf, an Interior Ministry spokesman, said Iraqi authorities had completed their investigation into the shooting and concluded that Blackwater guards were responsible for the deaths. Khalaf said the report had been "sent to the judiciary". Under Iraqi law, an investigating judge decides whether there is enough evidence for a trial. Khalaf also said the ministry was looking into six other fatal shootings involving Blackwater. [24]

                    On September 24, the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior announced it would file criminal charges against the Blackwater staff involved in the shooting, although it is unclear how some of them will be brought to trial.[23]“The murder of citizens in cold blood in al-Nissour area by the Blackwater is considered a terrorist action against the civilians just like any other terrorist operations,” a preliminary report of the findings says.[25] A senior aide to al-Maliki said that three of the Blackwater guards were Iraqis and could be subject to prosecution. The aide also said that the Iraqi government was pushing for an apology, compensation for victims or their families and for the guards involved in the shooting to be held "accountable."[26] US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates testified before Congress that the Pentagon has sufficient legal authority to control its contractors, but that commanders lack sufficient "means and resources" to exercise adequate oversight. [2]

                    On September 27, the New York Times reported that during the incident at Nissour Square, one member of the Blackwater security team continued to fire on civilians, despite urgent cease-fire calls from colleagues. The incident was resolved after another Blackwater contractor pointed his own weapon at the man still firing and ordered him to stop.[27]

                    On October 2, the Democratic staff of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee released a report stating that Blackwater USA guards have used deadly force weekly in Iraq and have inflicted "significant casualties and property damage". The report found that the guards fired their weapons an average of 1.4 times a week. The report further said that Blackwater reports that its forces fired first in over 80 percent of the cases. [28]
                    Comment
                    • pico
                      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                      • 04-05-07
                      • 27321

                      #11
                      WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The chairman of Blackwater USA defended his company against allegations that his contractors were trigger-happy mercenaries Tuesday, saying that his personnel have distinguished records and have never intentionally killed civilians.


                      An Iraqi woman walks past a car damaged in the September 16 incident involving Blackwater.
                      2 of 2 Erik Prince's appearance before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee was supposed to focus on a controversial firefight in a Baghdad square last month. However, the hearing changed course after the Justice Department asked Prince and the committee not to discuss the incident, which is now the subject of an FBI investigation.

                      The request did not stop committee Chairman Henry Waxman from reeling off a list of separate allegations against Blackwater that he called "troubling."

                      Nor did it stop him from citing instances in which he said the State Department tried to keep certain incidents quiet by instructing Blackwater to pay families of people it had killed.

                      The State Department relies heavily on Blackwater to protect its personnel, but Waxman said he believes that "the State Department is acting as Blackwater's enabler."

                      Prince, a former Navy SEAL who founded Blackwater in 1997, told the committee that his company had a "record of honorable service" to the United States.

                      In response to some of the allegations raised by Waxman, Prince said, "If we put 1,000 guys out in the field, humans make mistakes and they do stupid things sometimes. We try to catch those as much we can." Watch how video taken by Iraqi police sheds light on the shooting »

                      Regulating contractors

                      Rep. David Price, D-North Carolina, says he expects the House to vote Wednesday on legislation making all security contractors accountable under U.S. criminal law. The bill would:

                      • Bring contractors working for federal agencies under the authority of the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act

                      • Require the FBI to investigate all alleged MEJA violations by contractors Prince also said there was not a single incident in which a Blackwater contractor intentionally killed a civilian. In 16,000 missions in Iraq since 2005, Blackwater contractors have discharged their weapons fewer than 200 times, he said.

                      "In that time did a ricochet hurt or kill any innocent person? That's entirely possible," he said. "Again, we do not have the luxury of staying behind to do that terrorist crime scene investigation to figure out what happened."

                      Tuesday's testimony came as Rep. David Price, D-North Carolina, introduced legislation amending the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act "to ensure that all contractors are accountable under U.S. criminal law" and to ensure the FBI investigates and prosecutes allegations of misconduct. Price said he expected the House to vote on the bill Wednesday.

                      Presently, MEJA only applies to Defense Department contractors who commit felonies overseas.

                      The testimony took a partisan tone at times with Republicans defending Blackwater's service and Democrats questioning Prince's political contributions in the past.

                      Prince, whose sister, Betty DeVos, is a former chairman of the Michigan Republican Party, has made more than $225,000 in contributions, including $160,000 to the Republican National Committee and National Republican Congressional Committee, a congressional memorandum states.

                      Despite the contributions, Prince adamantly denied that Blackwater had any political leanings.

                      "We are not a partisan organization. That is not on the interview form when you come to work for Blackwater -- what party you affiliate with," Prince said. "We affiliate with America."

                      Waxman, D-California, said his committee convened to determine whether paying private military contractors to provide security was a viable option to using U.S. troops, which cost significantly less.

                      Waxman read a list of allegations against the Moyock, North Carolina-based company and said, "If the cost is higher and the performance is worse, I don't understand why we're doing this."

                      Before he was asked to refrain from discussing the September shootout, Prince was expected to defend his company against what he said were "baseless" allegations regarding the September 16 incident in Baghdad.

                      He has previously said Blackwater contractors acted appropriately after coming under fire. He further has said that his company is facing "negative and baseless allegations."

                      The Iraqi government says Blackwater contractors guarding a U.S. Embassy convoy opened fire on civilians in western Baghdad.

                      And a report issued Monday by the Oversight and Government Reform Committee found the company has inflicted "significant casualties and property damage" in Iraq while guarding State Department officials.

                      Blackwater's business skyrocketed after al Qaeda's 2001 attacks on New York and Washington and the subsequent invasion of Afghanistan, where the U.S. government hired the company to provide security in hostile areas.

                      In Iraq, the State Department has paid Blackwater more than $830 million to protect its officials since 2004, the House panel's report concludes.

                      Blackwater has about 1,000 people, largely former American military personnel, working in Iraq. The company has seen 30 employees killed there during the 4-year-old war, but no one entrusted to their care has been killed or seriously hurt, Prince testified.

                      Don't Miss
                      Witness: 'It was hell'
                      Contractor wrote report on Baghdad firefight
                      Prince's opening remarks
                      Read the congressional report (PDF)
                      But the company has come under intense scrutiny since the shootings in Nusoor Square two weeks ago. They spurred an outcry among Iraqi leaders and a debate over the accountability of contractors, who are not subject to Iraqi law for actions taken within their contracts, due to an order by the U.S.-led occupation government in 2004.

                      Though the company's contractors are authorized to use force only defensively, "the vast majority of Blackwater weapons discharges are pre-emptive, with Blackwater forces firing first at a vehicle or suspicious individual prior to receiving any fire," the report says.

                      The report also is critical of the State Department. In cases where Iraqis have been killed, "the State Department's primary response was to ask Blackwater to make monetary payments to 'put the matter behind us,' rather than to insist upon accountability or to investigate Blackwater personnel for potential criminal liability."

                      "The most serious consequence faced by Blackwater personnel for misconduct appears to be termination of their employment," the report states.

                      In one case cited in Monday's report, a Blackwater guard who was visibly drunk shot and killed a bodyguard of Iraqi Vice President Adel Abdel Mahdi during a confrontation in the Green Zone on Christmas Eve in 2006.

                      Blackwater hustled the guard out of the country within 36 hours with State Department approval, and the company later paid the Iraqi's family $15,000, the report states.

                      Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte told a Senate committee last week that the incident is under investigation by the Justice Department, but no charges have been filed against the man.

                      The report also questions whether the government is saving money by hiring out its security work. It found the government pays the company about $1,200 a day for each contractor on the job in Iraq -- between six and nine times the pay and allowances of an Army sergeant.

                      Waxman has been investigating the use of private security contractors in Iraq.


                      A majority staff report last week found Blackwater "delayed and impeded" a probe into the 2004 killings of four of its employees in the Iraqi city of Falluja -- a pivotal event in the 4-year-old war in Iraq -- and that the slain men were sent into the insurgent-riddled city without proper crew, equipment or maps.

                      Blackwater called the report "a one-sided version of this tragic incident," and said that its contractors were "betrayed and directed into a well-planned ambush."
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