OT: President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

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  • BuddyBear
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 08-10-05
    • 7233

    #36
    Originally posted by ritehook
    BTW, a scholar who recently died (sorry, forgot his name) who was the leading authority on the Holocaust (he was Jewish, and living and teaching in the USA) had acknowledged that there were no gas chambers in Germany, not at Dachau, Bergen-Belsen etc. Only in Auschwith, which was for a long time behind the Iron Curtain.
    Raul Hillberg
    Comment
    • ritehook
      SBR MVP
      • 08-12-06
      • 2244

      #37
      Originally posted by BuddyBear
      Trust me, I am very much for academic freedom and the pursuit of scholarship and indeed any questions about the Holocaust deserve serious scholarly consideration. And I agree that any attempt to suppress "Holocaust deniers" from their Constitutional rights to free speech should be frowned upon. It's the Holocaust deniers who need our support the most when it comes to being able to express their views...no matter what you think of them you have to allow them to speak and publish.

      That being the case, the question about whether the Holocaust happened or not I think is thoroughly well established in the sense that there was a systemtic effort to eliminate the entire Jewish population from Europe using inhumane methods and a racist ideology. I don't think debating whether it was whether gas chambers or starvation or however they died should take away from the broader claim that a "Holocaust" happened. How that happened and how many died and other details should be the subject of scholoary debate and inquiry.

      Everyone is entitled to their opinion but most importantly, everyone's opinions and views should be given the same respect and treatment no matter what anyone thinks.

      Amen to that, BB
      Comment
      • Art Vandeleigh
        SBR MVP
        • 12-31-06
        • 1494

        #38
        Adolf Hitler was a man with a plan.

        His vision was a 1000 year Reich, where the Aryan race would be masters of Europe, and beyond.

        The Nazis wanted to conquer territories in Eastern Europe and Russia for natural resources and living space ("lebensraum") for the master Aryan race.

        Jews, Gypsies, Communists and other "enemies" of the Nazi state were to be liquidated ASAP, either by execution or by being worked to death.

        All 11,000,000 Jews in Europe and Russia were marked for death by the Nazis. Whether the Nazis only made it to killing 6,000,000 or 4,000,000 or whatever number you care to believe, it was only because they didn't have enough time to finish the job.

        Those people the Nazis conquered who were classified as "lower" type humans (but not enemies), such as the Slavs, well their destiny in a Nazi regime was to be slaves for the Aryans.

        For 1,000 years.

        Adolf Hitler. A man with a plan.


        Here is a recording of Himmler talking about the extermination of Jews to Nazi officers.

        Comment
        • Hoja Verdes
          SBR MVP
          • 08-23-06
          • 1403

          #39
          I actually had a little respect for the guy until the "we have no homosexuals in Iran" comment.

          If anyone has read any Jared Diamond, he pegs the naturally occuring gay population in any culture at around 5-8%.
          Comment
          • jon13009
            SBR MVP
            • 09-22-07
            • 1258

            #40
            Holocaust Questions

            I agree that a basic right of all Americans is their right to free speech. While there will always be a fraction of people that will question the holocaust figures, there will also be a fraction of the population that will argue for white supremacy and legalized weed. Somehow the "American people" can see through most of the hype and figure out which way to go. Let's hope we don't regress too far to see that the Holocaust was a lesson to be learned and not something to question and repeat.
            Comment
            • ShamsWoof10
              SBR MVP
              • 11-15-06
              • 4827

              #41
              Originally posted by jon13009
              Somehow the "American people" can see through most of the hype and figure out which way to go.
              No offense but I wouldn't count on it... BTW I would not like it if they legalized weed because they would put other sh*t in it like they did tabacco..(amonia)

              Originally posted by BuddyBear
              That being the case, the question about whether the Holocaust happened or not I think is thoroughly well established in the sense that there was a systemtic effort to eliminate the entire Jewish population from Europe using inhumane methods and a racist ideology. I don't think debating whether it was whether gas chambers or starvation or however they died should take away from the broader claim that a "Holocaust" happened. How that happened and how many died and other details should be the subject of scholoary debate and inquiry.
              I respectfully disagree with this... Well established by who..? It's what we have been taught but it doesn't mean it's right... God knows there is a track record to prove that.. I am not saying Jews were not killed... I am just saying Jews were not killed in the way it's been taught to us... I am saying they (about 500K Jews) were used as "LAB RATS" for human experiments... It's still wrong and it's still bad...

              The propaganda of the "Holocaust" was to use it to aid in establishing the state of Isreal... This they had to do since they (meaning the elite) want Jeruselum as the global capital of this "Global Social State" they have been constructing for the last 100 or more years...

              Originally posted by ritehook
              Ihterestihg discussion. From what I undersstand US Intelligence had captured Geman prisoners build the chambers at Dachau after the war was over, for prop purposes.
              Now it makes sense that my dad said two or them had never been used... It never made sense until now!

              Originally posted by ritehook
              The leadihg US expert on gas chambers and all manner of legal executions once took a look at the purported gas chamber in Auschwitz and stated that there was no way mass executions could have been done there. Guy named Luckner, or like that
              Originally posted by BuddyBear
              Raul Hillberg
              Some sharp people on here...

              Originally posted by ritehook
              When something is propandized to the point where it's universally believed and accepted as gospel --- that's when I figure the ol' wool is being pulled over the ol' eyes!
              I have heard some good stuff on here before but this might be one of the best!! I'm jockin'.. EXCELLENT POST!!!

              Comment
              • WileOut
                SBR MVP
                • 02-04-07
                • 3844

                #42
                Shamswoof I have to say that you are so ignorant you dont even seem real to me. The holocaust is recognized by every culture in the world other than the terrorist-sponsoring cultures. The reason why they dont recognize it is because they dont want to believe that a christian was responsible for killing more jews than any muslim ever has. They believe jews, christians, and athiests are all infidels and of the devil. Recognizing the holocaust would be giving a christian country credit for something they think is good.

                Ahmadinejad has called for death to every american and jew. The guy is a bonified genocidal lunatic. He will admit that he wants to kill every jew in the world. If you are american he would love to torture you and your family then kill you. How can any american or jew support him or give him any credit?
                Comment
                • ShamsWoof10
                  SBR MVP
                  • 11-15-06
                  • 4827

                  #43
                  Originally posted by WileOut
                  Shamswoof I have to say that you are so ignorant you dont even seem real to me.
                  You know I am going to try that with SBooo... I am goning to call them and tell them what I believe about the "Holocaust" and hopefully they will think I am not real either... Then since I am not real I am going to ask them to consider the pending Pitt. +1.5 bet not real either... Think they'll buy that..?

                  Originally posted by WileOut
                  The holocaust is recognized by every culture in the world other than the terrorist-sponsoring cultures. The reason why they dont recognize it is because they dont want to believe that a christian was responsible for killing more jews than any muslim ever has. They believe jews, christians, and athiests are all infidels and of the devil. Recognizing the holocaust would be giving a christian country credit for something they think is good.
                  So basically what you are saying is you believe it because everybody else does... I mean everybody is always right ...yeah... uh...huh..HELLO..? Everybody is usually WRONG! What is even more crazy is you claim Muslims don't want to give credit to christians because they are jelous that christians killed more jews then they did..? To say that is ridiculous is being kind... This is a huge sign that you don't know much if anything about ISLAM... You know I tried to tell a black guy one time that I knew what it was like to be black and he asked me how I knew since I wasn't black.. I said "....I read about it.." He looked at me like I was an alien hahaha but I got my point acrossed... SO LISTEN UP WOut!!! That religion as well as the other two major ones DO NOT EXCEPT KILLING FOR ANY REASON other then IMMEDIATE self defense... They certainly do not get jelous of it either.. Give me a break!

                  Originally posted by WileOut
                  Ahmadinejad has called for death to every american and jew. The guy is a bonified genocidal lunatic. He will admit that he wants to kill every jew in the world. If you are american he would love to torture you and your family then kill you. How can any american or jew support him or give him any credit?
                  Why do you continue tripping over the obvious.. I mean this guy is supposedly a threat to the USA much less the world but they allow him to wonder around and give speeches at major academic Universities..? Sh*t "Americans" don't even get that kind of so called "freedome" here... Can it get anymore obvious that this guy is no more then "THE IRAN SHIEK"..

                  Hey ya'll for sh*ts and giggles ..since I believe the global leaders are all more like WWF wrestlers reading scripts to us the audience let's assign each leader a charter...

                  I would like to give GW the Hulk Hogan role but there has to be a better fit.. any ideas..?

                  Comment
                  • WileOut
                    SBR MVP
                    • 02-04-07
                    • 3844

                    #44
                    Originally posted by ShamsWoof10
                    SO LISTEN UP WOut!!! That religion as well as the other two major ones DO NOT EXCEPT KILLING FOR ANY REASON other then IMMEDIATE self defense... They certainly do not get jelous of it either.. Give me a break!

                    "The resurrection of the dead will not come until the Muslims will war with the Jews and the Muslims will kill them.....the trees and the rocks will say, 'O Muslim, here is a Jew behind me, come and kill him'"*

                    -The Prophet Mohammed (The founder of the islamic religion)

                    *Quote taken from the Hadith, which records the acts and sayings of Mohammed.
                    Comment
                    • ritehook
                      SBR MVP
                      • 08-12-06
                      • 2244

                      #45
                      Ahmadinejad has called for death to every american and jew. The guy is a bonified genocidal lunatic. He will admit that he wants to kill every jew in the world. If you are american he would love to torture you and your family then kill you. How can any american or jew support him or give him any credit?

                      Well, WO, were I a book I'd set the money line for the accuracy of your statements at +10000. Even worse than Arizona winning the Super Bowl.

                      Give us chapter and verse for: "Ahmadinejad has called for death to every american and jew . . . He will admit that he wants to kill every jew in the world. If you are american he would love to torture you and your family then kill you."

                      Too bad political discourse in the US isn't like sports betting, where one can back up speculations and opinions with cold cash.

                      In fact, ADJ never even called for the physical destruction of Israel, as was widely reported in the mass media. Juan Cole, who I think is a prof at Univ of Michigan but I know is an expert on Iran and fluent in Farsi, has translated the speech in question, where the Iranian supposedly said, "Israel will be wiped off the map." Unfortunately for the prop masters, he never said any such thing.

                      Rather, ADJ was directly quoting the deceased Khomeini, wherein that late ayotullah said that the Israeli regime will disappear from history. Much like conservatives from 1917 to 1990 predicted the Soviet regime would disappear one day.

                      There was no talk of killing, of wiping out, of mass murder. These charges sound to me like sparks flying from the ever-turning wheels of propaganda, to intiate a war on Iran, a war that is directly contrary to America's best interests.

                      But as a great American writer once said: "Nobody ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American people."
                      Comment
                      • ShamsWoof10
                        SBR MVP
                        • 11-15-06
                        • 4827

                        #46
                        Originally posted by WileOut
                        "The resurrection of the dead will not come until the Muslims will war with the Jews and the Muslims will kill them.....the trees and the rocks will say, 'O Muslim, here is a Jew behind me, come and kill him'"*

                        -The Prophet Mohammed (The founder of the islamic religion)

                        *Quote taken from the Hadith, which records the acts and sayings of Mohammed.
                        OOOOHH SH*T don't get me started on that... I have already discuss that garbage... I know you don't know but the Hadith is NOT a reliable source whatsoever!

                        Find where it says that in the Koran for me and I'll completely take a back seat and admit I am wrong...

                        Comment
                        • ShamsWoof10
                          SBR MVP
                          • 11-15-06
                          • 4827

                          #47
                          Originally posted by ritehook
                          Ahmadinejad has called for death to every american and jew. The guy is a bonified genocidal lunatic. He will admit that he wants to kill every jew in the world. If you are american he would love to torture you and your family then kill you. How can any american or jew support him or give him any credit?

                          Well, WO, were I a book I'd set the money line for the accuracy of your statements at +10000. Even worse than Arizona winning the Super Bowl.

                          Give us chapter and verse for: "Ahmadinejad has called for death to every american and jew . . . He will admit that he wants to kill every jew in the world. If you are american he would love to torture you and your family then kill you."

                          Too bad political discourse in the US isn't like sports betting, where one can back up speculations and opinions with cold cash.

                          In fact, ADJ never even called for the physical destruction of Israel, as was widely reported in the mass media. Juan Cole, who I think is a prof at Univ of Michigan but I know is an expert on Iran and fluent in Farsi, has translated the speech in question, where the Iranian supposedly said, "Israel will be wiped off the map." Unfortunately for the prop masters, he never said any such thing.

                          Rather, ADJ was directly quoting the deceased Khomeini, wherein that late ayotullah said that the Israeli regime will disappear from history. Much like conservatives from 1917 to 1990 predicted the Soviet regime would disappear one day.

                          There was no talk of killing, of wiping out, of mass murder. These charges sound to me like sparks flying from the ever-turning wheels of propaganda, to intiate a war on Iran, a war that is directly contrary to America's best interests.

                          But as a great American writer once said: "Nobody ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American people."
                          SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSOLID F*CKIN' POST!

                          ALL OF IT!

                          Comment
                          • WileOut
                            SBR MVP
                            • 02-04-07
                            • 3844

                            #48
                            Originally posted by ShamsWoof10
                            OOOOHH SH*T don't get me started on that... I have already discuss that garbage... I know you don't know but the Hadith is NOT a reliable source whatsoever!

                            Find where it says that in the Koran for me and I'll completely take a back seat and admit I am wrong...

                            "...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

                            "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

                            "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

                            ritehook yours is coming right up hang tight.
                            Comment
                            • WileOut
                              SBR MVP
                              • 02-04-07
                              • 3844

                              #49
                              ritehook here is where it talks about the subject.



                              Read it. You will see that any way you translate it, he wants Israel gone.
                              Comment
                              • ritehook
                                SBR MVP
                                • 08-12-06
                                • 2244

                                #50
                                Originally posted by WileOut
                                ritehook here is where it talks about the subject.



                                Read it. You will see that any way you translate it, he wants Israel gone.
                                The page you reference does not in any way back up your original rhetoric.

                                As Juan Cole, an expert in Farsi, the language of the Iranians, has said, ADJ was calling for an end to the "Zionist state" and in favor of a one-state solution that would give equal footing to both Arabs and Jews. Zionists consider that a poison pill, but some Israelis and a significant number of American Jews consider it viable. As it is, Israel is an oppresive state, similar to what South Africa (a one-time close ally) used to be.

                                In any case, the Iranian leader was not calling for viollence against Israel, Jews, or anyone else. Statements to the contrary, and the hysteria in NYC surroundng his visit, is all part a vicious and mendacious campaign to suck the US further into the Mideast imbroglio, with an attack on Iran.

                                The same wonderful folks who brought you the UIGEA are chomping on the bit to strike down the putative "madman" and the country he represents. All, of course, in our own best interests. LOL on that baby.

                                Put me solidly in the "opposed" camp on this one!
                                Comment
                                • slacker00
                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                  • 10-06-05
                                  • 12262

                                  #51
                                  Ahmadinejad seems to have some crazy ideas, but I'm very impressed that he's given a forum to speak openly in the U.S. It really lends credibility to the U.S. for a change. Let Ahmadinejad hang himself with his own words. Eventually people will see him for what he is and just ignore him. I've heard that according to public polls in Iran, Ahmadinejad won't even get reelected. Don't worry about Ahmadinejad, Ahmadinejad will be yesterday's news before too long. A footnote in history at best. I wish the same could be said for GW.

                                  I wonder how Ahmadinejad would stack up against GW in U.S. public opinion polls. At least Ahmadinejad is a straight shooter, even if his target carries some scrutiny. GW is just a wild gunman shooting recklessly at imaginary targets.
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