AMANDA KNOX -- guilty or innocent???

[MilfDriller]

47 separate wounds scattered across her body....

yet Knox and the bf had no wounds, scratches, nothing.... and no DNA placement in the immediate scene... tho there was mixing and footprints later on in the halls and bathroom.

how could they not have a scratch if the English girl fought violently?

[MartinBlank]

Milf.....this case is complete bizarre.

I watched MSNBC's docu about it, and it was very odd. It is clearly bizarre.

[BET THE HOOK]

She probably knows more than she is telling but I guarantee that this conviction gets overturned because they CANT place her there with DNA.

[MilfDriller]

more.....

But, the million dollar question here is: Why is there only Guede's DNA on Kercher's body? If Sollecito and Knox were so heavily involved in the crime, their DNA would be everywhere in that bedroom. All over the bed, all over the floor, all over the victim. The only DNA they've found is Guede's. That strikes me as incredibly odd that Sollecito and Knox managed to clean away their own DNA, but not that of Guede. In fact, impossible. We shed DNA and cellular materials heavily throughout normal activity. During a crime like this, there will be sweat, blood, saliva, mucous, skin and hair shed, which will get all over the place. Why is it not there?

[poker_dummy101]

with so many lies in her story, she has to be guilty of something

[MilfDriller]

being a liar...

problem I have is that a violent rape and murder happened. African dude's bidness is in the girl and all over the place. In her, on her, prints, everywhere, everywhere.... yet there is nothing from Knox.

So Knox and the bf cleaned the site up perfectly so that their dna was removed... and the African guys dna remained? Come on. Impossible.

Problem is i don't have any 'true facts' (lol) for this whole case.

I've read now that the bleach business was a hoax... but then read that it's true. Read that they both turned off their cells prior to the murder, then turned them back on at 6am.... and their stories contradict this... as well as their compu alibi.

Read everything this way and that way.

If I were there and could look at everything, I could have a better idea.

Yet if she was not involved.... why the lies and twists and turns.

[poker_dummy101]

Yet if she was not involved.... why the lies and twists and turns.

That's my point.

I also read she confessed to being involved in the murder but then later claimed it was because of pressure, being in foreign country, etc etc. There have been numerous cases where people gave a false confession due to pressure so its not that big of a deal, but...........

if I am in a police room accused of murdering someone (and i didnt do it) I would be telling everything i knew for the fear being in jail the rest of my life because of a crime i didnt commit. the last thing i would do is make up lies

[MilfDriller]

more

Following this story from the beginning, It seems Guede more than likely followed Meredith home then raped and killed her. Amanda Knox probably had nothing to do with this crime, but the prosecutor is hell bent on seeing her convicted. She went to Italy a young college student and more than likely will leave Italy an old women....Sad...

does this guy look like an innocent neophyte?

[MilfDriller]

the African guy's claims.... he's a ridiculous liar. I'd like to hear how he explains away his semen, his prints, footprints, everything...

***

PERUGIA, Italy (CBS/AP) Minutes before her death, British student Meredith Kercher was fighting with her American roommate Amanda Knox, according to Rudy Hermann Guede, the man already convicted of killing her.

There was a loud scream and Kercher ended up dead, the Ivory Coast native said at the opening of his appeal in a Perugia, Italy court.

..."I want to let the Kercher family know that I did not kill or rape their little daughter," he said. "I am not the one who took her life away from them."

Later Wednesday, prosecutor Pietro Catalani asked the court to confirm the sentence of 30 years in jail for Guede.

"He is not credible," Catalani said, adding that wounds on Kercher's body suggest it took far longer for her to die than Guede's testimony indicated.

Proceedings were adjourned to Dec. 21, when Guede's defense lawyers will argue their case.

Guede's appeals trial is separate from that of Knox and Sollecito, and his testimony cannot be included in the proceedings against them, lawyers said. Guede took the stand during Knox and Sollecito's trial but declined to answer prosecutors' questions or offer any spontaneous testimony.

[MilfDriller]

Knox’s lawyers said Guede had acted alone — even though he claimed he had been in the bathroom of the cottage with his iPod on during the killing and on emerging had seen a man resembling Sollecito standing over the body with a knife and the “outline” of Knox fleeing the scene.

[AMBlai01]

No clue

What did the DNA conclude?

now this is some good shit:

In Amanda's own words: the next morning after the murder, she went home and found the front door wide open, one of the windows was broken, there was blood on the floor of bathroom. As a smart girl as her parents constantly claimed, Amanda didn't call police, but took off clothes and took a shower. Do you think it is normal? Also, witness saw her doing laundry early morning after the murder, while Amanda told police she was sleeping at that time. A credit card receipt showed Knox's boyfriend bought two big bottles of bleach early morning after the murder; while he told police he was sleeping at that time. Knox's boyfriend told police at the night of murder, he was searching internet and playing his laptop. Police tested his laptop, which was idle and there was no activity at all....I can go on and on. Those are not evidence?

this makes her out to be a lying whore. none of this shit adds up. I wish I could just have access to all the information and examine it.

Okay I have been following this trial some and have probably not read enough about but here is my two cents......

I think that she definitely is involved in some sort of sex thing with the roommate, her boyfriend and the black guy. I think that the roommate didn't want to participate in whatever and either Guede was the roommates Boyfriend or just another party that didn't like the fact that kercher didn't want to participate.

I think that probably knox is guilty of some sexual crimes against the boyfriend when they were all high on drugs but didn't have any part in killing her. From what I have read the DNA evidence is about 25% of what would be needed to even make it admissible in a court in the U.S. and was all but thrown out in the Italian court. She was interrogated for over 20 hours by people that are usually used to interrogate mafia bosses around Italy. These interrogators are used to getting mafia bosses to crack in 3-4 hours. I would say much of anything she says within the interrogation should be thrown out due to all of these facts.

I saw a couple of interviews by "friends" of hers from the states right after the verdict came down and there were a couple things that struck me. One they talked about how gentle she was and how she wouldn't hurt a fly. They said about how kind hearted she was and how she would even let bugs go outside rather than kill them. I buy that...I really do. The other thing was more interesting though...they asked about her sexual appetite in the interview and all of the friends kept saying that it had no baring on the case. Hmmmmm...the problem is that it does. The friends were saying "if she is a very sexual person or has a big sexual appetite means nothing to this case" Well the problem with that is that the whole defense based their trial on the fact that this was a drug filled sexual tryst gone bad and the roommate wouldn't participate so they killed her. It doesn't add up. If she really wasn't a sexual person the friends would have said so...they wouldn't have avoided.

Like I said...I think she is guilty of some sexual crime here but as far as killing kercher...no way she is guilty.

[MilfDriller]

Meredith’s blood was only comingled with Amanda's DNA (her hair, skin cells, etc), not her blood. Since Amanda lived there, this is totally irrelevant pseudo evidence.

The DNA evidence and fingerprints actually prove that Amanda is innocent. Yes, her DNA should be found everywhere. However, Meredith’s room was free of any of Amanda's fingerprints and DNA. (1/4)

Rudy Guede's fingerprints and DNA were everywhere in the victim's room, on her clothes, in the crapper, semen in the victim. There are also his bare footed footprints in the bathroom. (1/4)

The cell phones and computers show NO communication between Guede and Amanda or Sollecito. (1/2)

Amanda's testimony also proved she was innocent. In 50 plus hours of interrogation under extreme duress, she only said that if she had to imagine being there, she would have imagined a scream. (1/4) Maybe something was lost in translation.

No witness or cellmate, or boyfriend implicated her in the crime and she’s been in prison for two years. Don’t you think her cell is bugged?. They probably enjoy watching her undress. (1/4)

The cartwheels, the confusion about who killed her roommate, the kissing and face book don’t prove anything at all. Perhaps there is even a slight indication she is naïve/innocent.

There are spoken indications that she is innocent based on the fact she said some of the things I said when I once had hugely trumped charges made against myself. (1/2)

[poker_dummy101]

yea i agree with that

[bettilimbroke999]

If a girl gets raped/murdered in your apartment while you're there dont bullshit the police from day 1 if you're innocent

Ciao Amanda

[MilfDriller]

'supposed' accurate timeline.... if all this is true, then I'd be against her.

Timeline

Kercher was murdered on the evening of 1 November, 2007.[24] Led by Dr Luca Lalli, pathologists put her time of death between 20:30 and 23:00.[14][25] The autopsy found it took her several minutes to die, as she inhaled her own blood.[17]
On November 1, Kercher had spent the evening at the home of Robyn Butterworth with some friends,[26] watching the film The Notebook and eating a home-made pizza. Just before 21:00hrs, she left with friend Sophie Purton to walk home; the two parted company on reaching Purton's flat, and Kercher walked on alone the 500 yards (460 m) towards the house.[17][27]
During that night, elderly neighbour Nara Capezzali heard a scream that she later said "was so chilling, I felt as if I was in a house of horrors.”[17]
On the morning of November 2, the Postal and Communication Police came to investigate the discovery of two mobile phones in a nearby garden, one of which was registered to Kercher.[15] Attending the house where Kercher lived at 12:35,[26] they found Knox and Sollecito sitting outside, and the premises that they were informed had been burgled. The police investigated the top floor flat, which apart from the shared bathroom where broken glass was found and had bloodstains around the sink and on the floor,[28] had been cleaned thoroughly with bleach.[26] The washing machine was found to be on final cycle with Kercher's clothes inside.[26] As other residents returned, they informed the police that nothing had been taken.[17]
At the insistence of one resident, the police broke down the door to Kercher's room. When they breached the door, which had been locked from the inside, they reportedly found Kercher lying beneath a duvet "soaked in blood."[29] Police have said Kercher's throat was slit with a shard of glass or a pen-knife.[30] Police initially believed that the killer or killers escaped through a broken window in Kercher's room, since the door was locked when they arrived,[14][30][31] but subsequently suspected the break-in was staged.[32]

[MilfDriller]

African guy did all the action.... the killing and the raping...

but what did Knox and bf do? They left zero dna in the room. Held the girl down while the African guy was being raped? And ditto for the killing?

yet they did not leave even an atomic particle on the scene b/c they cleaned?

huh?

[MilfDriller]

but, then again, why would they clean the scene w/ bleach after the murder? that immediately throws 'not guilty' out the window

and why were they washing the girl's clothes when she was dead and the police arrived

why was the door locked hiding the body.... all staged to make it look like a break-in...

if the African guy did all the crime, what did Amanda and the bf do? just makes no fvcking sense

[MilfDriller]

more

Deadly exchange

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INTERACTIVE
A look at the United Nations of people in the gruesome case of a British student's murder in Italy, and the arrest of her roommate Amanda Knox, along with two other suspects
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Pizza, chocolate and a living room
rom the steps that are the city's 'living room' to how to make a pizza, student Zach Nowak gives a tour of the Italian city of Perugia.
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Clint Van Zandt had flown over from Washington to help untangle the snarl of conflicting stories and interpret the crime scene evidence for us.
Clint, who spent 25 years with the FBI as a onetime supervisor in the Behavioral Science Unit, known as the Profilers, is an analyst for NBC News.

Clint Van Zandt: It had to be a horrific crime scene and a terrible way to die.

Chief investigators in Italy's national crime lab gave Dateline extraordinary access to the Meredith Kercher murder file.
Chillingly, the CSI director told NBC how he believes Meredith died. It’s a detail not reported until now. He demonstrated with his letter opener how the student was stabbed through the throat...

Dennis Murphy: All the way through the neck?
Directoire: Si.

A large blade knife made a through wound, left to right, coming out the other side.
And authorities believe a knife like a common kitchen knife taken from Raffaele, the boyfriend's apartment, may be the murder weapon.
Story continues below ↓ advertisement | your ad here

<IMG style="FLOAT: none; WIDTH: 1px; HEIGHT: 1px" height=1 width=1 name=prti>

Even though it had been scrubbed with bleach, analysts found traces of Meredith's DNA on the knife tip, and traces of Amanda's DNA near the handle.
What really pulled it together for Clint was a chance to study an array of the crime scene photos.

Clint Van Zandt: The blood that's on her hand would suggest that she had gone up to her throat. She had grabbed her throat realizing the knife had been a through and through wound. She's bleeding profusely. She's grabbed her throat, her hands are full of blood and she's reaching back trying to catch herself trying to hold herself up...

Clint thought the DNA on her body and the location of blood spray from the wound supported the investigative theory that Meredith was being sexually attacked from behind, bent over or perhaps being forced to her knees.
With the forensic briefing under our belt, early the next morning we went over to the little house where someone had plunged a knife into Meredith's neck after first threatening her with it.

Clint Van Zandt: This is someone who took a knife and first of all, they'd put it up under the victim's, like this. It's like pointing up, like this.
Dennis Murphy: “I’m talking to you, this is serious.” Huh?
Clint Van Zandt: This is to get the victim's attention and say, "You are going to comply with me and this is how serious I am." But then sometime after that, probably very quickly, there is the other, the killing wound.
Dennis Murphy: That's a forceful push, huh?
Clint Van Zandt: This was, "I’m angry. I'm forceful. I'm going to kill you."
Dennis Murphy: Do you see anything consistent with any sex game fantasy play you've ever encountered here?
Clint Van Zandt: This is no game. This is someone who was horribly violated and went through a terrible murder, because she didn't just die of the stab wound, she died because the blood was in her throat and she drowned in her own blood.

He would have had to climb over that railing.
When he surveyed the house Clint thought it highly unlikely that there'd been an intruder -- as Rudy claimed -- who'd broken a window to gain access to the house. The broken window is 15 feet over a steep slope, not a plausible way in. The authorities believe the so-called break-in was staged, suspicious from first glance.
Here's some of what we learned about the forensic case building against the three suspects.
Rudy, as we've said, left a bloody handprint on a pillowcase beneath the victim. His DNA is in the victim, on her bra and in the house.
Raffaele, the boyfriend, owns a pair of Nike sneakers the exact size and with an identical tread mark as one that left a bloody shoeprint on the bedroom floor beneath the victim. Analysts cannot say yet if it is an exact match.

More on the case

Who's who photo gallery
Producer's blog: A little bit of 'bene'
Van Zandt: A profiler's perspective on student's murder
Messageboards: What do you think of this case?



A drop of Amanda's blood was found on the tap in the bathroom. Analysts are confident that that fresh drop places her in the house the night Meredith was murdered.

Dennis Murphy: Clint, the forensic team thought it was valuable that they detected a drop and not much more, of Amanda’s blood on the faucet of Amanda’s sink in her own house. I’m not sure I connect the dots on that. It's her house.
Clint Van Zandt: The significance was going to be she alleged that she had spent the night at her boyfriend's house. And if you think about a drop of blood is normally going to dry from the outside in.
Dennis Murphy: So blood from two days ago would look different than--
Clint Van Zandt: Entirely different. That refutes Amanda’s story that she wasn't there that night.
Dennis Murphy: They seem to think it was a pretty good piece of evidence.
Clint Van Zandt: They do. They think that's a very good piece of evidence. We have fingerprints. We have footprints. We have basically fresh blood. We have DNA evidence, all of that places two and probably three people in the apartment, in the murder room with the victim at the time it happened. This is someone who was a victim from the get go and all the way through.

And Clint thinks Amanda, with the forensic evidence, her shifting stories -- yes I was there, no I wasn't -- coupled with her false accusation of Lumumba has put her in a perilous situation.

[MilfDriller]

so much of shit put out there is BS

at hte morgue they determined no sexual assault occurred.... other accounts have it that there was a sexual assault.

I'm pretty confident it was the African guy with the knife holding it to the English girl... threatening to kill her. that's basic math.

[keyboarding]

Let's just forget about Knox and Sollecito for a moment. Imagine they didn't exist in this story. Let's just focus on Rudy Guede and try and understand his role in all this. He either followed Kercherhome (probable) or was let in by her, they had sex/he raped her, he became violent and killed her. Now, she's laying there choking on her own blood, what is Rudy thinking? Let's step away from that tangent for a moment.

Now, the scene of the house. Her door was locked from the inside, the window was broken, and she was under the duvet with her clothes washing. Did Rudy decide to give her some dignity and cover her with her duvet while she was choking on her own blood? Did he watch her die then cover her? The broken window is how he got in and out, but the scream and number of injuries to her body confuse me. Wouldn't she have screamed once Rudy broke in? Once he started raping her? Once he started cutting her? Why was there only one scream?

Let's be Rudy the rapist for a moment and try to make sense of all this. Break into the window, possibly hide and wait for her to come into the room. Take her by surprise, gag/threaten her, and then rape her. Unsure at what point she screams, but perhaps that is what triggered the fatal stabbing/slashing. Now we panick, realizing it has gone too far and run out the window. Once that scream goes off, no way we hang around long enough to cover her with a duvet.

With all the other things that happened outside of the basic acts of Rudy, I don't know how anyone can think Knox and Sollecito are innocent.

[MilfDriller]

So was the African guy their drug dealer? Swings by, sells some shit... they're all high...

[keyboarding]

So was the African guy their drug dealer? Swings by, sells some shit... they're all high...

A convicted thief, possible drug dealer, who escalates to rape and murder with witnesses? Seems a bit much. And we say drugs like "pot" counts. But let's go with that, everyone gets high/drunk/intoxicated, then Guede and Kercher go into the bedroom and lock the door. For some reason, Guede loses his mind and decides to get violent and then murderous (which he denies, which is the strangest thing). Knox and Sollecito are home? Maybe only Knox? Someone is home, hears the screams, but do nothing.

Now, we don't know if the laundry/bleach is fact or not (a big problem with this story is sorting through the rumours), but even if those are both lies, and the cell phones are lies, how does Knox not call the police, or do anything when Kercher screams?

Guede rapes and murders Kercher, and Knox did absolutely nothing. To me, those are the facts of the case.

[MilfDriller]

Enjoyed your comment.

Yeah, it just doesn't make any sense. Disregarding all the conjecture and looking at the facts.... We have the Afr guy's prints, semen, etc putting him at the scene. He's using the knife to control her... maybe she flips out... all hell breaks loose.

Yet, as you say, things were doctored. The duvat was tossed over her body, the door was locked... Also read that entry/exit via the windows was impossible. Also, a break-in was fabricated as a make-believe robbery was attempted... clothes were strewn, stuff turned over.... YET.... glass from a broken window WAS ON TOP OF STREWN CLOTHES.

So that shit right there wreaks of bullshit. Plus the bleach stories (which I haven't legitimately confirmed), the washing of the clothes of a dead person in a washer while the cops arrive...

But if Amanda's dna is there... I mean, wtf? makes no sense

[MilfDriller]

"isn't there"

And I agree w/ you. Dna puts the Afr guy at and IN the murder scene. Nothing does that for Knox.

But why all her lies? The BS alibis, the cell phone activity..... If you're innocent, you just say what happened.

What was she doing? Cheerleading a savage rape/killing via knifing?

[MilfDriller]

Amanda Knox was interrogated for 13-30 hours straight, the investigators can't remember how long and they lost the videos. Amanda claims that a text message she sent to her employer of "See you later" was taken by the prosecutors to mean that she would see her employer later that night to kill her room mate. The prosecutor actually locked up her employer based on that and testimony from Amanda that she says was coerced. Amanda wrote in her prison diary that she was relieved when her former employer Lumumba was released from prison.

The prosecutors story that Amanda and her boyfriend grabbed a random drug dealer off the street and took him home to have a satanic sex orgy should be laughed at. The fact that people (I used to be one) take that scenario seriously is crazy. The evidence isn't there. Only two pieces of evidence link Amanda and her boyfriend to the crime.

1) Bra strap DNA - The bra was on the floor for months and moved many times until it was finally tested for DNA. The DNA sample was so small, that it could have been carried in by the wind.

2) Knife - Amanda's DNA would be expected to be found there. The small amount of DNA on the tip of the knife may or may not have been the deceased's blood. The sample was so small that there are conflicting reports from various experts. That aside, the murder weapon was laid down on the sheets of the bed at one point and left a bloody imprint. That imprint doesn't match the knife from the defendant's house. The deep stab wounds on the body also couldn't have been made by the butcher's knife that is in question.

I think any reasonable person would see that this was a crime committed by a single career criminal, Guede. There was no motive for Knox to commit the crime and there is nothing but very flimsy evidence to support that she had any involvement. We know what was in the crime for Guede: rape. But then he ran and his two supposed accomplices stayed behind?

I don't buy it.

[MilfDriller]

I know the black guy is guilty... semen, prints, then fled to Germany.

I like the above.... yeah, I'll flee to Germany and I'll let my accomplices stay behind... lol.

[keyboarding]

Enjoyed your comment.

Yeah, it just doesn't make any sense. Disregarding all the conjecture and looking at the facts.... We have the Afr guy's prints, semen, etc putting him at the scene. He's using the knife to control her... maybe she flips out... all hell breaks loose.

Yet, as you say, things were doctored. The duvat was tossed over her body, the door was locked... Also read that entry/exit via the windows was impossible. Also, a break-in was fabricated as a make-believe robbery was attempted... clothes were strewn, stuff turned over.... YET.... glass from a broken window WAS ON TOP OF STREWN CLOTHES.

So that shit right there wreaks of bullshit. Plus the bleach stories (which I haven't legitimately confirmed), the washing of the clothes of a dead person in a washer while the cops arrive...

But if Amanda's dna is there... I mean, wtf? makes no sense

Again, let's just go with the pure facts. A woman was tortured, raped, and murdered. A man is proven to be there, and was sexually active with her, and has a criminal record.

To me, Knox and Sollecito have nothing to do with any of it. How Italian authorities have them convicted either means a lot of the "rumours" must be true.

That opens up a whole lot of questions about the involvement of Knox and Sollecito, and those questions are much, much harder to answer.

[MilfDriller]

I just can't conceive of Amanda's and the bf's role in the crime.... as there is nothing in the immediate crime scene.

I just don't get it. What were they doing?

[MilfDriller]

I agree with you... but I have suspicions that this case may have been subject to a 3rd-world type of mentality/process.

Look at the American kid in Nicaragua... the whole thing was bullshit. I think he spent a year or two in jail AND WAS CONVICTED.... even tho it was all false.

Italy is quite different from Nicaragua, but is not above some of that kind of shit.

Moreover, look at the DUKE CASE. That guy Nyfong (sp) brought false charges against those four preppy white kids... all entirely false... and the guy was just on some power trip. One sick fvck.... and for what? Destroying the life of 4 kids just b/c he's a sick fvck?

So that could be the case in Italy as well... in a similar fashion. However, all the circumstances around Amanda... it is highly bizarre.

[MilfDriller]

So maybe cleaning the crime scene w/ bleach was all bs:

Quote:
The cleaning lady testified that she asked Sollecito to buy bleach but that she hadn't used it, and he didn't regularly make use of bleach in his house. But prosecuters allege Knox and Sollecito used bleach to clean up after Kercher was killed.
The bleach was found at the boyfriend's house. They claim that the kitchen flooded and they cleaned it up with bleach. That's how the bleach got on their shoes. I can't find any source that mentions the bleach at all really, I think the cleaning lady deflated that balloon.

[MilfDriller]

One has only to look at the pic of the Afr guy and see that he's a criminal.

Similary, looking at a pic of the falsely accused other Afr guy... it is clear he's not a criminal.

[MilfDriller]

He wasn't "a random drug dealer off the street", he was a guy who associated with the local student scene.
Who supplied students, including Knox, with drugs on a regular basis. This was someone well known to Knox and not some bloke they've met in a pub one night.

[MilfDriller]

The idea that her and her boyfriend of 2 weeks decided to get another guy to join then and the three of them rape and murder her room mate seems a bit hard to believe.

Now maybe it happened, but the evidence hasn't convinced me.

I probably haven't seen all of the evidence, but the arguments and evidence presented so far just aren't convincing.

And I say this knowing I will be flamed, but I have been misquoted and basically subjected to the Strawman fallacy with every post I've made. I never said she's a saint, but she doesn't sound like someone who was partying all the time. She's made out to be a slut, but I have only heard of one boyfriend so far. It's been said that she's a drug user, but I have seen no evidence to corroborate that. Pardon me for thinking that the ****ing evidence might ****ing matter.

[MilfDriller]

weird......

The towels were found underneath Meredith's body.

Blood evidence shows that Meredith was stabbed in front of the wardrobe. After she died her body was moved to where it was found, complete with another pool of blood which ran from her neck.

But that movement of Meredith happened on the night, else the blood evidence wouldn't be what it was. She was layed on top of the towels.

[keyboarding]

I think 80% of what you are reading online is false. I'd wait for more information. I'd expect her to win on appeal though.