On Bonus "Whoring," etc.

[TLD]

Just read this on another board, by poster “janus”:

I shop where the deals are just like any intelligent consumer. The only difference between offshore gaming & real world businesses is the undercurrent of blame on consumers in the offshore market when a book offers more than it can profitably deliver (as a marketing ploy) & goes under. In the real world, thats called having a shitty business plan and unrealistic expectations about consumer behavior.

I agree 100%, and since I don’t think I’ve seen the point articulated quite so well (and haven’t been able to articulate it so well myself), I thought I’d borrow it to add here.

[Bill Dozer]

Good post about a good post.

These days the term "business model" is over-used on gambling watchdog websites but is one of the most important things to look at. Places that give away the farm (unless they are a Mansion, which to an extent, budgets for early losses) or have grey areas in their T&Cs should be avoided. If a book can't protect itself against sharp players it can't protect its business and your money.

[The HG]

That undercurrent of consumer blame has always existed in the gambling world though, even before the net. Like how blackjack card counters were labeled "cheaters". It's always been the unspoken case that being smart is somehow against the rules in gambling, that the few people who can actually figure out and implement a way to beat a setup are somehow more degenerate than people who just throw their money away.

[JoshW]

Actually lots of businesses are trying to discourage counsumers that actually cost them money. Cable companies will limit your "unlimited" bandwith if you are in the top 1% of users who may be using up to 25% of the resources of the system. Best Buy has been putting in rules to discourage certain practices that consumers have used that may be abusive.

The customer isn't always right anymore whether in offshore gambling or otherwise.

[TLD]

I don’t think the point was that offshore sportsbooks are unique in trying to tailor their policies to discourage unprofitable customers.

What’s unusual is how they’ve succeeded in convincing the bulk of the people on these posting boards that when customers behave in such a way that they are unprofitable to a business, they are doing something wrong.

I don’t think you’ll find many broadband forums where fellow consumers bash that 1% of high volume users as “cheats” and “thieves” for being unprofitable to the cable companies.

[increasedodds]

If a book is too dumb to protect itself, oh well.

I get coupons from a burrito joint near my office that say one coupon usage per customer.

Well they keep dropping them off and I keep using them.

If a book is willing to keep giving the same person bonuses, then the book is dumb. There are so many ways to avoid this.
Sean

[Mudcat]

For as long as I have been around this industry, there has been this "undercurrent of blame on consumers." In fact I have seen at times where it is a blatant over-current (if there is such a word) and terms like bonus whore get tossed around as freely as racial epithets at a neo-Nazi rally.

Like any epithet, it usually says a lot more about the person using it than the person at whom it is pointed. My general observation has been that the "bonus whore" epithet-tossers are losing money and are frustrated. Since, if you look at things a certain way, you could say that those losers are paying the bills of people who know how to make money – and bonus manipulation is probably the easiest, least skill-intensive of those ways - perhaps the resentment (although shallow-minded) is natural.

I dunno. The fact is: I know how to make money from bonuses. I couldn't un-know that if I wanted to. I tried once for the good of this lily-white industry; I closed my eyes and concentrated and tried to squeeze the knowledge out - but I ended up just farting. Meanwhile I've got sportsbooks offering me bonuses. What do I do? I want so desperately to make everyone happy.

I’m being facetious of course. To me, declining a bonus would be as stupid as not picking up money I saw lying on the sidewalk. I take the money.

But are there people actually expecting me to do that, actually doing it themselves? Some claim to.

Here's a tricky twist: I also know how to make money straight betting. From what I've seen in the sub-culture, the bonus haters are okay with making money that way. Why is that knowledge okay but the other not?

Am I okay doing both or am I expected to set aside the one kind of knowledge?

And as I‘m sitting here having come this far, I realize I could go on for days on this subject. There is the question which has been brought up so many times of why bonus hunting is frowned on so much more than reduced juice shopping. Makes no sense.

I think when you get to the heart of it, the answer is probably as simple as this: in the gambling world there are an awful lot of people losing money and feeling bad about themselves. A few of those people will be sensible enough to look at themselves but probably more will look for something else to point fingers at. It doesn’t have to make sense; they just feel bad.

It’s not really a bad phenomenon. If people are feeling posting forum peer pressure to stay away from bonus hunting, that’s okay in my book. The distasteful truth is that, though I might like to post good industry advice and steer people in the right direction, I am probably a fool to do so. I need to have a lot of people who are not adept at making money for there to be an industry.

[Santo]

I don't decline a bonus, I often seek them, but in my own name, and at one account per book. I don't open accounts in others name, "bet for friends" etc... that is the difference I've been trying to express.

Anybody with an ounce of web knowledge would know how to mask/obtain IP's to look like you're from a different area or even country, and there's probably some money in that, with a higher degree of risk. That risk is the confiscation of funds when you screw up.. remove that risk, and you're inviting people to open multiple accounts, knowing they have a no-lose proposition on the bonus.

[ShamsWoof10]

I don't think the books have a problem with giving bonuses and I don't think that is cheating... What is cheating is when people open up many accounts to claim the higher sign up bonuses even if they use legit people the point is they are doing this to decieve the books... I think that's what the books have a problem with...

[increasedodds]

I consider opening duplicate accounts (Friends accounts) deceiving - the question does come up - what if a friend is invested a good portion of money...

Anyways, I also consider advertising immediate withdrawals and then taking a week + deceiving.

I've never opened a duplicate account at any book that has never taken over 4 days to pay me.

-Sean