Penn&Teller,addictive gambling is no disease.Free Heinekens at Vegas sportsbooks

[BrentCrude]

Does anyone watch Penn&Teller Bull S%$T on Showtime?They did a show on addictive gambling and how people addicted cop out and pass the blame saying that they have a disease.I agree with them 100% that it's a personal choice decision and not a disease.By saying it's a disease it just gives a person an easy way out of getting out of trouble with your employer that you robbed to obtain gambling money and to tell your wife when you spend the grocery money on a bet that it was out of your control because you have a disease.Most of the people raking in 100K plus salaries in my area's addictive gambling council subsidised by the tax payer were once horid addictive gamblers who embezzled money and were in legal trouble.It's a nice gig preaching to people about gambling diseases if you can get it.I'm certain that some of the people in jail for embezzlement to support their gambling habit were out raking leaves or mowing the lawn when they kicked up some weed containing the addictive airborn gambling spore and through no fault of their own became gambling addicts.

Then what kills me is that these addictive gamblers got on every comp list from Vegas to their hometown casino and every day in the mail they get vouchers for free rooms,free buffets and free start up bankrolls of $50 or $100 bucks and they don't use them because they can't trust themselves in a casino.If I got in a sh%t load of trouble where gambling ruined my life I most certainly would spend the next 50 years of my life getting even with the casinos by milking every comp they send my way dry.

Sort of on a side note,I was just out to Vegas on a busy weekend when the town was loaded with 20 something guys that thought they had the world by the butt who really didn't.They would hang around the sportsbooks buying $8 Heinekens at places like Caesars.I felt like telling them that the drinks are free if you play the game of pretending you are gambling bigger than you are where they are all comped.I know in some of the lesser quality sportsbooks beer is $1 a bottle so it's not like you have to mooch those free drinks.The idiot kids could have been taking the $8 they spent on a beer and been playing 4 or 5 team parlays with it and with a little luck would have paid for their entire trip to Vegas.Why is it that people with the least money or the easiest to come by money like inheritance,winning a frivalous lawsuit or getting some government grant spend money like water.I'll bet Sam Walton would have crapped his drawers if he saw his kid buying an $8 of beer at Caesars.

[Mudcat]

If it makes you feel any better, I do a lot of work with various types of addicts and I almost never see the situation you seem to be describing where the carefree addict just tosses aside all responsibility saying he/she has a disease so nothing is their fault. What I see most from addicts are extreme guilt, self-loathing and despair.

Many addicts feel they are so bad/defective they deserve to die and some of them kill themselves. I don't have any stats in front of me but my impression is that gambling addiction leads to more suicides than any other addiction.

As far as the disease label, even among long-time recoverees, there is some debate. It's just semantics though. Addiction is what it is. You can label it whatever you want; the behavior is still the same.

Whether you agree with the label or not, my overwhelming observation has been that addicts have the best chance of succeeding and turning their lives around once they stop viewing themselves as bad people trying to be good, and start seeing themselves as sick people trying to be healthy. Even if you are resentful of the actual addict, it is good for many people when addictions are effectively dealt with. There are families and businesses and innocent bystanders who get messed up by addictions.

In any case, I am part of a group that puts on workshops for front-line addiction workers. What I have found over the years is that a great deal of the work we do is in fact anti-stigma work. You have done a great job here of illustrating that stigma.

[WileOut]

Brent,

Whether or not you call it a disease doesn't matter. The fact is that compulsive gambling is very hard to stop for the gambler. Suicide is the only option for many, that gives you a small hint of what a burden it is.

[The HG]

Oh man, I used to use that disease thing with my girlfriends back in the day, it was the funniest thing ever. When they would come over and want to talk to me about their feelings and whatever, and I'd be sitting there looking at porns, and they'd say "why would you rather look at porn than talk to your girlfriend when she is at your house??", I would turn to her and say, very solemnly and earnestly "I have...... a disease......... the real me would rather talk to you of course, and hear all about your day and all of that, but, what this is, is...... I have....... a disease." And then I'd be home-free, I could do whatever I wanted. Whatever I wanted to do, I could do it, and she'd have to accept it because I told her I had a disease that made me have to do it. It was awesome. I had like 10 different diseases every day. Whatever, I had the "I have to watch TV" disease a lot, I remember. I had that one all the time. I also had an "I have to go to parties without you so I can meet other women" disease. I'd always tell them I was going to hit bottom soon and then go get help, which made them think I was making progress. So I could always do whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted. It was so great when I thought of that idea.

[Mudcat]

One thing I would add: the American Medical Association officially classifies alcoholism as a disease. So it is not just something addicts use to duck responsibility for their actions. It has been an accepted fact by the medical community for 50+ years.

I am an alcoholic and I know within my guts that that classification is correct.

Unfortunately I can't say for a fact that gambling addiction shares that official classification but I do understand what happens inside an addict and I consider it a disease.

[MrX]

"Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only one you can get yelled at for having." --Mitch Hedberg

[Poker Pirate]

This gets a post from me cause I love P & T and BS is a great show thats often hilarious. Unfortuantly I've never seen an episode on gambling, is it from the new season?

PS - I dont want to get ivolved in a big debate or anything but I do want to say additiction is never a disease, and while normally labels are unimportant, there are certain "scare words" that do carry weight among the masses that makes it important.

[hitbitritz]

brentcrude - it's a personal choice? i know some people that ruined their lives gambling, if it was as simple as a choice, why wouldn't they choose the better lifestyle? because its a tough addiction to break. you obvioulsy know nothing about addiction and are clearly ignorant regarding diseases. here is the definition of a disease from wikipedia=

In human beings, "disease" is often used more broadly to refer to any condition that causes discomfort, dysfunction, distress, social problems, and/or death to the person afflicted, or similar problems for those in contact with the person

if compulsive gambling isn't a disease , i dont know what is.

this disease is cureable through GA meetings, gambling treatment centers, and other type of counseling. one thing compulsive gamblers dont realize is that in order to maintain a normal lifestyle they have to quit 100% and continue to receive treatment forever. one does not have the power to gambling occasionally, or small...the addiction will inevitably take over.

are you aware of the fact that 1 out of every 5 compulsive gamblers attempts suicide? compulsive ruins more families and lives than any other addiction - including alcohol and drugs...these are stats that can be backed up with little online research.

[MrX]

if compulsive gambling isn't a disease , i dont know what is.

Measles?

[pags11]

I'm a little divided when it comes to "addictions"...I believe a lot is hereditary and a lot is learned...I think if a person is more educated they may be able to be better at controlling their urges...

[hitbitritz]

good point. i agree that heredity plays part of addictions. a lot of people go from one addiction to another. once they quit gambling, they will become an alcoholic. i think becoming educated about addiction plays a role in helping one overcome it. regardless, there is overwhelming evidence that one who crosses the line into compulsive gambling can never gamble normally again. i really believe that an addiction, in most cases, is just the visible result of an underlying problem, but i also believe in some cases that some people don't have an underlying problem, and just develop the addiction.

i would "bet" (haha) that no one here knows of one single person that had an addiction to something, and has sucessfully been able to "control" it. it becomes a problem for a reason. if it wasn't a problem, it would have never gone that far.

am i addicted to gambling? i think so. i can go 2-3 weeks at a time without gambling, but then ill be chillin on a sunday afternoon and ill get the urge and go send $500 western union to a book. i got myslef into some a little trouble with a bookie last year, and ive been fine since. since then, im up overall by about 3k. but that doesnt mean my problem wont come back. to be honest, its a little scary. i dont know when i'm gonna "lose it" again, and blow 3-4k i don't have. i've tried to quit, but it's not that easy...

[pags11]

hitb,

I would say at one point I was an "addictive" gambler, but as I've gotten older I've learned to control what I bet on, how often I bet and how much I bet...I may not be in the norm, but this is my experience...

[hitbitritz]

glad to hear that you're under control. defining "addictive" is a tough thing to do. my brother started gambling with me and i remember seeing his detail one day he left it up..he was 18 yrs old at the time, and he had blown about $500 in a few days - in about 10+ deposits. keep in mind he didnt have a job. his activity looked like he was a compulsive gambler. basically he ended up winning it back, but he was playing at luckys sportsbook (a notorious scam) and he never got paid the 2-3K he was expecting and needed. he learned his lesson and stopped gambling online. since then, he doesnt bet on sports at all. he bets on small things, pools, etc...with no problems. so did he ever cross the line into compulsive gambling? it's hard to say. this is complex. maybe ill never have a problem again? i dont know. i know since all the 3rd party processors have collapsed, ive been doing a lot better. i exclusively use western union now, and its much easier to control my gambling. i also stopped using a local.

[pags11]

not using a local is a smart thing...I started gambling when I was about 8 (my dad would play my parlay cards)...I got serious around 18 and was probably addictive at 23...now I'm 31 and have grown a bit...