I hate to say it but James is better than Jordan

[dlunc3]

You are the one who claimed LeBron has already matched Jordan's accomplishments. I merely pointed out that you are incredibly wrong. Like 3 championships wrong.

Again, there is more to having an accomplished career than just team accomplishments. All said and done lebrons personal stats will smash Jordan’s and it won’t even be close

[jtoler]

Did Jordan not have the 2nd best player in the league on his team? The best euro on his team? Best rebounder on his team? Best shooter on his team? Best coach on his team? Which one of those does lebron have? Of course he wouldn’t leave if he had all of that. Jordan would have left as well.

Best shooter? Kerr? Jordan's team was more GSW before Durant in that it happened more spontaneously not from grabbing this guy from here and that guy over there. After being bounced from playoffs so many times you dont think he was frustrated? He didnt leave and go join the Celts, Pistons, or Lakers or grab Barkely and form a super team, he stayed put. The reality is he could have kept on losing at Chicago but they figured it out.

[jtoler]

Jordan in 13 seasons

• [*=center]Hall of Fame
  [*=center]14x All Star
  [*=center]10x Scoring Champ
  [*=center]3x STL Champ
  [*=center]6x NBA Champ
  [*=center]11x All-NBA
  [*=center]9x All-Defensive
  [*=center]1984-85 All-Rookie
  [*=center]3x AS MVP
  [*=center]1987-88 Def. POY
  [*=center]6x Finals MVP
  [*=center]5x MVP
  [*=center]1984-85 ROY

[jtoler]

Bron in 15 seasons

• [*=center]14x All Star
  [*=center]2007-08 Scoring Champ
  [*=center]3x NBA Champ
  [*=center]13x All-NBA
  [*=center]6x All-Defensive
  [*=center]2003-04 All-Rookie
  [*=center]3x AS MVP
  [*=center]3x Finals MVP
  [*=center]4x MVP
  [*=center]2003-04 ROY

[lakerboy]

Did Jordan not have the 2nd best player in the league on his team? The best euro on his team? Best rebounder on his team? Best shooter on his team? Best coach on his team? Which one of those does lebron have? Of course he wouldn’t leave if he had all of that. Jordan would have left as well.

What Euro did Jordan have during the first 3 peat? What best rebounder? Pippen was the second best player in the NBA in 1991?

Do you even know the players he played with?

Pippen
Cartwright
Grant
Armstrong
Perdue
Paxson
Williams
Brown
Buechler
King

That's a good roster?

[dlunc3]

Best shooter? Kerr? Jordan's team was more GSW before Durant in that it happened more spontaneously not from grabbing this guy from here and that guy over there. After being bounced from playoffs so many times you dont think he was frustrated? He didnt leave and go join the Celts, Pistons, or Lakers or grab Barkely and form a super team, he stayed put. The reality is he could have kept on losing at Chicago but they figured it out.

So if lebron had that team right now you don’t think he would stay put? You don’t think he would win championships every year? All you have to do is compare Phil Jackson to Tyrone lue

[ikid2groove415]

Did Jordan not have the 2nd best player in the league on his team? The best euro on his team? Best rebounder on his team? Best shooter on his team? Best coach on his team? Which one of those does lebron have? Of course he wouldn’t leave if he had all of that. Jordan would have left as well.

Whos lebron toughest challenge in the east? Took him awhile to beat kg/Ray Allen/pierce in Boston ? Other then that- he’s play against bums his whole career in the EAST

[A4K]

So if lebron had that team right now you don’t think he would stay put? You don’t think he would win championships every year? All you have to do is compare Phil Jackson to Tyrone lue

LeBron has received almost every player that he demanded from Cavaliers management. He built these teams and doesn't have anyone to blame but himself if they do not succeed.

[Hman]

This argument is like politics.

You simply aren't gonna change ppl's opinion.

Jordan played & dominated when:

*There were many more solid & competitive teams (today's league is watered down)

*There were far more Superstars

*The rules centered around defense while today's caters to the offense (Jordan would easily avg 40+ today)

*When the rules allowed for a guy to be double & triple teamed like Jordan was nightly

*When championship teams wete built through the draft, fortunate trades and/or free agency. Not manufactured teams like the Miami Heat, GS Warriors, and Cleveland Cavs

[JIBBBY]

Jordan really got after his teammates more then Lebron does.. More vocal and demanding in the locker room and a better team leader.. I still take Jordan over Lebron.. MJ will get more out of the roll players and teammates on any team...

[Hman]

Did somebody really say Scottie Pippen was the 2nd best player in the league?

[dlunc3]

What Euro did Jordan have during the first 3 peat? What best rebounder? Pippen was the second best player in the NBA in 1991?

Do you even know the players he played with?

Pippen
Cartwright
Grant
Armstrong
Perdue
Paxson
Williams
Brown
Buechler
King

That's a good roster?

Exactly, they surrounded him not once, but twice with multiple all stars and the best sidekick in the league and the best coach in the league. Lebron had that caliber roster for 4 years, but never had the coach which is huge. Either way, at this point they are hands down the top 2 of all time and can easily be argued either way

[jtoler]

This argument is like politics.

You simply aren't gonna change ppl's opinion.

Jordan played & dominated when:

*There were many more solid & competitive teams (today's league is watered down)

*There were far more Superstars

*The rules centered around defense while today's caters to the offense (Jordan would easily avg 40+ today)

*When the rules allowed for a guy to be double & triple teamed like Jordan was nightly

*When championship teams wete built through the draft, fortunate trades and/or free agency. Not manufactured teams like the Miami Heat, GS Warriors, and Cleveland Cavs

Yep and teams used to play inside out back then the centers were known players because they got the ball, today only a couple good centers and when they took away the hand check rule all of a sudden it became a guard dominated league.

[dlunc3]

Whos lebron toughest challenge in the east? Took him awhile to beat kg/Ray Allen/pierce in Boston ? Other then that- he’s play against bums his whole career in the EAST

So again, this means nothing? Jordan pkayed weak teams in the finals his whole career

https://www.scoopnest.com/user/ESPNStatsInfo/875027874797039616

[PAULYPOKER]

Lol...........The lets build traffic with the trifecta debate is timeless........

[PharaohUB]

Not sure if it’s been said didn’t read whole thread but Jordan is overrated. I’ve always said this and know it’s an unpopular opinion. He would be an average star today. His athleticism was just ahead of its time. The guys are faster stronger and taller than they’ve ever been. You got centers now who hit 3 pointers. More complex defenses and freak athletes everywhere. Jordan didn’t have to compete against nearly the talent lebron has. I don’t even know how you can put Jordan and lebron in the same class class. Such as most things in the world recently nba has advanced thanks to technology , better understanding of nutrition, and other advances. If lebron was playing against the garbage that used to play in this league when jordAn was around he’d average 50 a night. If you don’t believe me go and watch an nba game from the 90s. You will see what I mean if you’ve been watching nba recently and your ego isn’t too big to admit that basketball has gotten better.

[ikid2groove415]

Chicago is a big sexy city - nobody wants to play in that DUMP Cleveland- reason Lebron left the first time around

[nyplayer33]

Agree with above poster..james is much better athlete. James was a great crucial.scorer...but james on that bulls team wins same titles and perhaps bY more.points.

[dlunc3]

Lebron left the Cavs and they went 19-63.

Lebron left the Heat and they went 37-45.

If lebron leaves the Cavs again this year, I don’t think anyone would argue that they would be lucky to win 15 games next year.

Jordan left the bulls and they went 55-27.

Can anyone argue that Lebron wouldn’t have won with that team that went 55-27 as well?

[jtoler]

Not sure if it’s been said didn’t read whole thread but Jordan is overrated. I’ve always said this and know it’s an unpopular opinion. He would be an average star today. His athleticism was just ahead of its time. The guys are faster stronger and taller than they’ve ever been. You got centers now who hit 3 pointers. More complex defenses and freak athletes everywhere. Jordan didn’t have to compete against nearly the talent lebron has. I don’t even know how you can put Jordan and lebron in the same class class. Such as most things in the world recently nba has advanced thanks to technology , better understanding of nutrition, and other advances. If lebron was playing against the garbage that used to play in this league when jordAn was around he’d average 50 a night. If you don’t believe me go and watch an nba game from the 90s. You will see what I mean if you’ve been watching nba recently and your ego isn’t too big to admit that basketball has gotten better.

Hmm, wonder if they took away the hand check rule to foster another star in LeBron, it miraculously came just in time for him, he averages 20 ppg rule disappears and the next year he averages 27 ppg and the rest as they say is history.

[jtoler]

Lebron left the Cavs and they went 19-63.

Lebron left the Heat and they went 37-45.

If lebron leaves the Cavs again this year, I don’t think anyone would argue that they would be lucky to win 15 games next year.

Jordan left the bulls and they went 55-27.

Can anyone argue that Lebron wouldn’t have won with that team that went 55-27 as well?

When Jordan left Bulls in 98 here's what they looked like the next 3 seasons.

Eastern	15th	Central	8th	13	37	.260	20
Eastern	15th	Central	8th	17	65	.207	39
Eastern	15th	Central	8th	15	67	.183	37

[dlunc3]

When Jordan left Bulls in 98 here's what they looked like the next 3 seasons.

Eastern	15th	Central	8th	13	37	.260	20
Eastern	15th	Central	8th	17	65	.207	39
Eastern	15th	Central	8th	15	67	.183	37

You forgot to mention that Pippen, Rodman and Kerr also left after the 1997 season, which is why the 1993-94 season is the proper comparison

[chipshipley]

Not sure if it’s been said didn’t read whole thread but Jordan is overrated. I’ve always said this and know it’s an unpopular opinion. He would be an average star today. His athleticism was just ahead of its time. The guys are faster stronger and taller than they’ve ever been. You got centers now who hit 3 pointers. More complex defenses and freak athletes everywhere. Jordan didn’t have to compete against nearly the talent lebron has. I don’t even know how you can put Jordan and lebron in the same class class. Such as most things in the world recently nba has advanced thanks to technology , better understanding of nutrition, and other advances. If lebron was playing against the garbage that used to play in this league when jordAn was around he’d average 50 a night. If you don’t believe me go and watch an nba game from the 90s. You will see what I mean if you’ve been watching nba recently and your ego isn’t too big to admit that basketball has gotten better.

This is the most idiotic thing I have ever read. Yes please go watch an NBA game from the 90's, and maybe you'll get a fukkin clue... Yes LeBron would still be a great player back then because he's penetrating huge. He's soft as baby shit though, he'd get hammered and cry every fukkin play.

Also, LeBron can have all the stats he wants, I'd still rather have MJ on my team then him. It's sort of like Peyton Manning vs Brady, I used to think Manning was better, because I am from Pittsburgh and by default hated Brady. Brady is a fukkin winner Manning has better stats, but I take Brady 8 days a week over Peyton.

[JIBBBY]

Could Lebron do this? Jordan glided in the air...

[jtoler]

You forgot to mention that Pippen, Rodman and Kerr also left after the 1997 season, which is why the 1993-94 season is the proper comparison

im not hating on anything trust me but I dont think you lived during this era. I understand people living in certain eras feel differently because even older people say Wilt or Kareem was better, newer generations say Kobe or Bron, I understand totally.

[Ratzz]

Michael Jordan was 1-9 in playoff games before Scottie Pippen showed up.

When Jordan left in '1993-94.. Bulls went dropped from 57 WINS to 55 Wins.. ONLY TWO LESS.. 2

when LeBron left Cleveland in '2010-11, Cavs went from 61 WINS to 19 Wins.. FORTY-TWO LESS WINS 42 (Lottery team)

when LeBron left Miami in '2014-15, Cavs went from 54 WINS to 37 Wins.. SEVENTEEN LESS WINS 17 (missed playoffs)

Bulls were good enough to win a Ring without Jordan

[19th Hole]

He has been just too dominant for too long right now tonight he is just as good as 10 years ago I have no idea if he’s taking steroids or is just an athletic freak
All-around player James is going down as the greatest but Jordan the greatest winner of all times
More dominant player Jordan of course
Better pressure player Jordan

[dlunc3]

No the 97 season isnt proper comparison either than since it still had Pippen Rodman and Kerr, when Bron left Cavs they had nothing either.

Who did they lose other than Shaq who scored like 12 Per game and like 20 min per night?

[jtoler]

When Jordan left in '1993-94.. Bulls went dropped from 57 WINS to 55 Wins.. ONLY TWO LESS.. 2

when LeBron left Cleveland in '2010-11, Cavs went from 61 WINS to 19 Wins.. FORTY-TWO LESS WINS 42 (Lottery team)

when LeBron left Miami in '2014-15, Cavs went from 54 WINS to 37 Wins.. SEVENTEEN LESS WINS 17 (missed playoffs)

Bulls were good enough to win a Ring without Jordan

ugh no they werent or they would have gotten out of the eastern conference.

[jtoler]

Who did they lose other than Shaq who scored like 12 Per game and like 20 min per night?

Im agreeing with you, Bron was definitely the main reason for their success. Ive always said I dont like the comparison, two different styles. Bron is more of a facilitator, if Bron played like MJ I dont think he would he would have ever won a ring period being primarily a scorer and nothing else, he needs those 4 guys surrounding him to knock down 3's also we cant overlook the hand check rule. You cant just change the rules then start comparing players. But MJ, the triangle offense, Pip and the role players and 3 pt specialists they had was instrumental in their success.

[dlunc3]

Im agreeing with you, Bron was definitely the main reason for their success. Ive always said I dont like the comparison, two different styles. Bron is more of a facilitator, if Bron played like MJ I dont think he would he would have ever won a ring period being primarily a scorer and nothing else, he needs to 4 guys surrounding him to knock down 3's also we cant overlook the hand check rule. You cant just change the rules then start comparing players. But MJ, the triangle offense, Pip and the role players and 3 pt specialists they had was instrumental in their success.

I agree both were obviously great. I just don’t like the “Jordan won more titles” argument bc I think lebron wins the same amount if he played for the the same teams. Still too early to really have the debate though, as lebron has plenty left in the tank

[chipshipley]

When Jordan left in '1993-94.. Bulls went dropped from 57 WINS to 55 Wins.. ONLY TWO LESS.. 2

when LeBron left Cleveland in '2010-11, Cavs went from 61 WINS to 19 Wins.. FORTY-TWO LESS WINS 42 (Lottery team)

when LeBron left Miami in '2014-15, Cavs went from 54 WINS to 37 Wins.. SEVENTEEN LESS WINS 17 (missed playoffs)

Bulls were good enough to win a Ring without Jordan

You and I both know that this is complete and utter bull shit, right?

[The Kraken]

He has been just too dominant for too long right now tonight he is just as good as 10 years ago I have no idea if he’s taking steroids or is just an athletic freak

All-around player James is going down as the greatest but Jordan the greatest winner of all times

More dominant player Jordan of course

Better pressure player Jordan

Welcome to 2012

[ikid2groove415]

And when lebron plays with someone great like kyrie ? He runs him out of town - don’t act like it’s easy to play with lebron -

[PharaohUB]

This is the most idiotic thing I have ever read. Yes please go watch an NBA game from the 90's, and maybe you'll get a fukkin clue... Yes LeBron would still be a great player back then because he's penetrating huge. He's soft as baby shit though, he'd get hammered and cry every fukkin play.

Also, LeBron can have all the stats he wants, I'd still rather have MJ on my team then him. It's sort of like Peyton Manning vs Brady, I used to think Manning was better, because I am from Pittsburgh and by default hated Brady. Brady is a fukkin winner Manning has better stats, but I take Brady 8 days a week over Peyton.

Yes there are some like you stuck in the old days like I mentioned some ego's won't allow people like you to admit the preferred "era" when they were young isn't that good, but D-league teams today would make the playoffs back then. It's what happens over time. Things get better... it's kind of the basis of humanity. Evolution, progress, etc. Also something called technology has burst onto the scene in the last 20 years or so. This has helped improve every aspect of the game from game strategy to nutrition. In the 90s you could be a fat drunk penetrate like John Kruk or David Wells and be successful. Athletes now are like machines and need every edge they can get to be able to get into the league. In the 90s any smuck who was 7 foot tall got an NBA contract. Now they need to be able to shoot an dribble too. Comparing the two players is like comparing the top NBA player to the top WNBA player.