Is it rational for a person to be selfish?

[slacker00]

Is it rational for a person to be selfish?

I've been debating this topic on a different forum. I think it's a very good question. Just give a quick gut answer, then we can debate the issue.

[Mudcat]

Given the absence of context, my gut answer is yes. In fact I would take it further and say it is completely frothing-at-the-mouth irrational not be selfish.

However I will keep an eye open for that context.

[yisman]

Absolutely.

It takes maturity to realize that you are not the only one that matters.

When I was little, I figured the other people weren't real and my consciousness was the only one out there (that other people were there for my consciousness only).

What I'm saying is it's natural. Is it rational too? What argument would there be against it being rational?

[Chi_archie]

its evolutionary psychology built into our genes....


gotta look out for number 1

[RealSlimShady]

A better question is : Is it rational for a person to be unselfish?

[ijustwant2bpaid]

only in regards to their families..

[slacker00]

Good answers, guys.

I think I failed in designing my poll, though.

Dictionaries seem to vary wildly in their definition of selfish. Sometimes selfish seems to be defined as downright irrational behavior. For example: selfish 1. too much concerned with one's own welfare or interests and having little or no concern for others; self-centered I thought rational would my ticket to an objective poll. Then again, I'm polling a bunch of selfish degenerate gamblers!



I thought maybe the sports cliche, "He's such an unselfish player." might balance it out. I guess not. Magic Johnson seemed to be Unselfish Johnson back in the '80s when the Lakers were winning those rings. Liberal media spinning a dagger into individualism, some say.

I wanted to get some opinion, but I have to admit I was hoping for more balance. You guys must be too smart to get trapped in the propaganda machine.

[Mudcat]

Unselfishness is very often selfish.

Magic Johnson got huge personal rewards for his apparent unselfishness on the court.

I know many people who do community service type work. I have done some myself and been complimented. But the fact is, it makes me feel good. Sometimes there is something in the actual act that is personally rewarding and sometimes it is having my ass kissed and told I did something good (perhaps by a hot chick).

I'm sure Mother Theresa got some good feeling out of the stuff she did.

It is complex and intertwined.

[yisman]

Yes. I help people because it makes me feel good.

So that's selfishness too.

Everybody is selfish, but it manifests itself in different ways.

[MilfDriller]

Shellfish are overrated. I like gumbo shrimp and Alaskan Halibut.

[smitch124]

I would think its most always rational to be selfish and has to do with one's pecrception of the world, now whether one's perception of the world is rational can be discussed.

One who has a view of the world that its dog eat dog and survival of the fittest would be much more likely to be selfish. One who sees the world as interconnected with all things in the universe bound inexorably together would be more likely to be unselfish.

[AgainstAllOdds]

Every act you can think of, do, attempt, is selfish.


Wrap your brain around that one and get back to me.

[Mudcat]

I think of the example of an airplane which is in trouble. There is a mother and baby together when the oxygen masks drop.

The mother must look after herself first and make sure she is fit in order to care for her baby. If she gives the baby the oxygen first, the mother may pass out and all is lost.

Selfishness is very rational.

[L2Gunz]

I think of the example of an airplane which is in trouble. There is a mother and baby together when the oxygen masks drop.

The mother must look after herself first and make sure she is fit in order to care for her baby. If she gives the baby the oxygen first, the mother may pass out and all is lost.

Selfishness is very rational.

good point!!!

[jjgold]

Most people that are unselfish lose out

Being sellfish applies to most people and that is sad.

[d2bets]

Yes.

[The HG]

Another wayyyyyy overly simplistic question. It all depends on what definition of "selfish" you use, and people always fit the definition to justify whatever spurious argument they want to make.

[reno cool]

no.
People have a vested interest in their relationship to the community. Hence, what goes on in this forum and a million other things.
Against that, one can give a bogus argument such as: I'm good to my friends because I benefit from them and so I'm actually being selfish. But that changes the meaning of the word.

People in our culture tend to want to minimize the affect others have or had on us. And that is irrational, and leads people on a destructive path.

[slacker00]

Unselfishness is very often selfish.

Magic Johnson got huge personal rewards for his apparent unselfishness on the court.

I know many people who do community service type work. I have done some myself and been complimented. But the fact is, it makes me feel good. Sometimes there is something in the actual act that is personally rewarding and sometimes it is having my ass kissed and told I did something good (perhaps by a hot chick).

I'm sure Mother Theresa got some good feeling out of the stuff she did.

It is complex and intertwined.

Great stuff.

I'm curious if I would have asked "Is unselfishness rational", if I'd also get a good consensus. There's so many variation wordings. I really need a set of questions rather than just a singular question poll.

Still, many good answers in here.

I have trouble calling Mother Theresa selfish. If she's selfish who can we call unselfish? Besides Magic Johnson, of course.

[Mudcat]

Don't get me started on Mother Theresa. Bitch stole my bike.

[Nicky Santoro]

i swear, i have yet to meet a gambler who is not a selfish guy and an asshole.. i am not talking about the occasional bettors, just your everyday sick gamblers.

they are realy selfish and real pricks and only think of themselves.. it's sad. but it's the addiction that makes them bitter.. just like crack addicts.. you can't meet one really really nice and gentle crack addict. they all have something wrong with them.. just like gamblers.

[losturmarbles]

selfishness is a virtue

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth--406-FAQ_Virtue_Selfishness.aspx

What does Ayn Rand mean when she describes selfishness as a virtue?
Ayn Rand rejects altruism, the view that self-sacrifice is the moral ideal. She argues that the ultimate moral value, for each human individual, is his or her own well-being. Since selfishness (as she understands it) is serious, rational, principled concern with one's own well-being, it turns out to be a prerequisite for the attainment of the ultimate moral value. For this reason, Rand believes that selfishness is a virtue.
In the introduction to her collection of essays on ethical philosophy, The Virtue of Selfishness (VOS), Rand writes that the "exact meaning" of selfishness is "concern with one's own interests" (VOS, vii). In that work, Rand argues that a virtue is an action by which one secures and protects one's rational values—ultimately, one's life and happiness. Since a concern with one's own interests is a character trait that, when translated into action, enables one to achieve and guard one's own well-being, it follows that selfishness is a virtue. One must manifest a serious concern for one's own interests if one is to lead a healthy, purposeful, fulfilling life.
Rand understands, though, that the popular usage of the word, "selfish," is different from the meaning she ascribes to it. Many people use the adjective "selfish" to describe regard for one's own welfare to the disregard of the well-being of others. Moreover, many people would be willing to characterize any instance of desire-satisfaction in these circumstances as "selfish," no matter what its content. Thus, many people arrive at the following composite image: selfish people are brutish people who are oblivious to the negative consequences of their actions for their friends and loved ones and who abuse the patience, trust, and good will of all comers to satisfy their petty whims.
Rand certainly recognizes that there are people who fit this description, and she certainly does not believe that their behavior is in any sense virtuous. But she opposes labeling them "selfish." Rand believes that this application of the word blurs important philosophical distinctions and foreordains false philosophical doctrines. First, this understanding of selfishness construes both whim-fulfillment and the disregard of others' interests as genuinely self-interested behaviors, which they are not. Second, this understanding of selfishness suggests an altruist framework for thinking about ethics.
To elaborate on the first point: Rand believes that the elements of human self-interest are objective. All human beings have objective biological and psychological needs, and one's actual interests are identified by reference to these needs. Mere whim-fulfillment is therefore not constitutive of human well-being because one's whims might be at odds with one's actual needs. Moreover, the character traits of the "selfish" brute are not compatible with any human being's actual, rational interests. Humans live in a social world; in order to maximize the value of their interactions with others, they should cultivate a firm commitment to the virtues of rationality, justice, productiveness, and benevolence. A commitment to these virtues naturally precludes such brutish behavior. (For the Objectivist view of benevolence and its component virtues—civility, sensitivity, and generosity—see David Kelley's Unrugged Individualism: The Selfish Basis of Benevolence).
To elaborate on the second point: Rand argues that the conventional understanding of selfishness implies an altruistic framework for thinking about ethics. Within this framework, the question, "Who is the beneficiary of this act?" is the most important moral question: right acts are acts undertaken for the "benefit" of others and wrong acts are acts undertaken for one's own "benefit." Rand believes that this approach passes over the crucial ethical questions: "What are values?" and "What is the nature of the right and the good?" In addition, the altruist framework suggests a dichotomy between actions that promote the interests of others to one's own detriment and actions that promote ones own interests to the detriment of others. Rand rejects this dichotomy and affirms the harmony of human interests (cf. "The 'Conflicts' of Men's Interests," VOS 57-65).
Rand writes, "[A]ltruism permits no concept of a self-respecting, self-supporting man—a man who supports his own life by his own effort and neither sacrifices himself nor others … it permits no concept of benevolent co-existence among men … it permits no concept of justice" (VOS, ix).
For her, the truly selfish person is a self-respecting, self-supporting human being who neither sacrifices others to himself nor sacrifices himself to others. This value-orientation is brilliantly dramatized in the character of Howard Roark in The Fountainhead. The further elements of selfishness - the character traits that, when translated into action, implement a concern for one's own real interests - are discussed and illustrated in that work, in Atlas Shrugged, and throughout Rand's non-fiction.
Finally, one might ask why Rand chose to use the term, "selfish," to designate the virtuous trait of character described above rather than to coin some new term for this purpose. This is an interesting question. Probably, Rand wished to challenge us to think through the substantial moral assumptions that have infected our ethical vocabulary. Her language also suggests that she believes that any other understanding of selfishness would amount to an invalid concept, i.e., one that is not appropriate to the facts and/or to man's mode of cognition (see VOS vii-xii, and Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology, esp. Ch. 7). In addition, one might interpret Rand as asserting that her definition captures the historical and etymological meaning of the word. But certainly, her praise of selfishness communicates instantaneously and provocatively the practical, this-worldly, egoistic, and profoundly Greek orientation of her ethical thought.

Copyright, The Atlas Society.