Update (or lack of one) regarding my VIP wrong bet dispute (with pics)

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  • knicknut
    SBR High Roller
    • 03-18-06
    • 241

    #1
    Update (or lack of one) regarding my VIP wrong bet dispute (with pics)
    EDIT: UPDATE

    If there are legitimate reasons for this delay, I apologize. I'm afraid, however, that this issue will never be addressed if I don't push it further.

    In the three weeks since I've brought up the issue via Bill to VIP:

    - I've sent picture-detailed proof of the computer glitch (below)
    - They've effectively locked my account by blocking deposits
    - They have ignored every e-mail I've sent them in the past week

    By delaying response and avoiding confrontation, it is pretty obvious that they are trying to sweep this under the carpet in hopes that I give up and this whole problem just goes away. They are admitting culpability by refusing to confront it.

    Bill, I appreciate the time and effort you've put into this for me. However, after three weeks and proving my case, my account was locked, they've told me nothing, you've only been able to give me potential ways they might interpret the issue to deny me.

    As Bill said:
    VIP would want to pay you for the bet on the page you clicked. If they have seen this before or have some way of seeing proof of this in their system, they will likely credit you.
    I've provided proof. My browser history confirms it and shows I wasn't trying to freeroll them either. They've been silent.

    VIP is an "A+" book according to this site. That gives them added responsibility and this site added leverage. I expect better response from a book that is held in such high regard by a consumer advocacy group. I also wouldn't expect hiding behind a statute a limitations or liberally interpreted T&Cs, something I would more likely see in Bill's rogue reports.

    If this is never resolved adequately, I would appreciate suggestions from everyone on how to publicize this issue so VIP doesn't succeed in hiding it.



    P.S. Thanks especially to Lucas, isetcap, Dark Horse, BuddyBear, MrX, et al for their supportive comments and well-constructed thoughts throughout this.



    >>>>>>>>>>>
    Please see my post below to see my original post in this thread. I moved it for clarity of this post.
  • BuddyBear
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 08-10-05
    • 7233

    #2
    VIP is not really a true A+ book.....
    Comment
    • MrX
      SBR MVP
      • 01-10-06
      • 1540

      #3
      You shouldn't need a video, your instructions are clear enough for anyone to duplicate.

      If they won't admit a problem after those instructions and screenshots, then a video won't change a thing.

      That said, if for some reason VIP needs confirmation from a 4th party about this glitch, I'd be happy to help.
      Comment
      • Lucas
        SBR MVP
        • 12-20-05
        • 1062

        #4
        that is a very nice approach...
        they have absolutelly obvious error
        they are not able to locate it, even if described to details
        and finally locked your account

        personally I am scared to reload there
        Comment
        • freebie
          SBR MVP
          • 08-10-05
          • 1174

          #5
          it's obvious VIP is Dicking with you.
          Just try to get you money back and stay far far far away from them.

          Deposit your hard earned money else where.
          Comment
          • pags11
            SBR Posting Legend
            • 08-18-05
            • 12264

            #6
            I was done with VIP a long time ago...a rinky dink operation that tries to compete with the big boys...
            Comment
            • Bill Dozer
              www.twitter.com/BillDozer
              • 07-12-05
              • 10894

              #7
              Knick,

              The core issue wasn't whether or not the glitch occurred but that you are instructed to check your pending wagers. You actually did view the pending wager but did not report the issue until the result of the game was known.

              I said it would be worth the effort to recreate the process and I forwarded your email to VIP who gave it to their software people. I'll let you know the outcome but they may simply put the rule about using only one browser window when logged on in a more prominent place on the site.
              Comment
              • Sam Odom
                SBR Aristocracy
                • 10-30-05
                • 58063

                #8
                VIP is a solid B book, no way are they in the same leauge w/Pinny, WSEX/Matchbook or Greek/BetJam
                Comment
                • knicknut
                  SBR High Roller
                  • 03-18-06
                  • 241

                  #9
                  It's still very shady if they use a statue of limitations argument to cover their ass and to justify my being screwed. (If I had noticed right away, would they have fixed it before the result was known? With the wait times I've had with live chat and phone lately, I doubt it.) I provided proof of the bug and activity shows no malicious intent. Is hiding behind a "you didn't realize it right away" argument really honorable, even if technically legal?

                  Neither is using a generous interpretation of a anti-hacker rule as defense. Not from an apparently A+ book.

                  Those have been your reservations, though, not their statements yet, so maybe there is some hope. You did say "VIP will want to honor the bet you intended to make," and I hope as an honorable book they will strive to achieve that.



                  By the way, was there any reason behind my account being locked from depositing? Just a nice ol' F-U to go with my issues?
                  Comment
                  • knicknut
                    SBR High Roller
                    • 03-18-06
                    • 241

                    #10
                    Bump for update. My original post:

                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                    >>>>>>>>>>>

                    Here's an update to the situation that occurred three weekends ago, where VIP gave me the wrong bet from a different tab I had open, and I lost $6600 as a result



                    I sent a detailed report to Bill later that week, and he said he'd talk to VIP. Two Thursdays ago he spoke with his VIP contact and VIP said they weren't sure that the glitch I experienced was possible, and Bill asked me to recreate it.

                    I recreated the situation and took screenshots every step of the way (report at the bottom). I sent them to Bill 10 days ago, but unfortunately have not received a response to that e-mail or the 2 follow ups since. I hope to receive an update from Bill soon.

                    In the meantime, however, I have been locked out from depositing at the site for the past 10 days (they say it's a Neteller issue, Neteller says its their issue, other deposit methods don't work either. I'm getting a run-around). It's obviously very discouraging, especially from an apparently A+ book.

                    If VIP doesn't accept the screen shots, I may need some help for someone to video themselves doing what I describe below. Because I don't have PC video recording, and I can't get any money into VIP anymore, I can't make it myself.

                    Here is the process I took, with screenshots attached. Obviously, this simplified situation is contrived. But in the situation that Lucas described where you can't find a tab and open a new one, this is a glaring error and a dangerous glitch. Feel free to recreate it yourself for $1 bets to prove I'm not lying

                    STEP 1: open VIP in Firefox
                    STEP 2: open VIP in new tab (right)
                    STEP 3: (left) open up college FB halftimes
                    STEP 4: (right) open up college FB halftimes
                    STEP 5: (left) enter the bet on team A (Wyoming), click "next"
                    STEP 6: (right) click "Go" to get lines, enter bet on team B (BYU), click "next"
                    STEP 7: (left) click "confirm" for team A (Wyoming), but instead get bet on team B (BYU)

                    This glitch works with different teams, different sports, etc. No other site I've ever done something similar on has ever had this kind of lack of differentiation between bets.

                    Just wanted to give everyone an update, provide screenshots, and hopefully gain some support as I continue to wait for a response.







                    Comment
                    • Chuck Sims
                      SBR MVP
                      • 12-29-05
                      • 3072

                      #11
                      Knicknut, VIP is nowhere close to being an A+ sportsbook. To have the same grade as a WSEX or Pinnacle is embarrassing for this site.

                      I would advise not playing there.
                      Comment
                      • knicknut
                        SBR High Roller
                        • 03-18-06
                        • 241

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Chuck Sims
                        Knicknut, VIP is nowhere close to being an A+ sportsbook. To have the same grade as a WSEX or Pinnacle is embarrassing for this site.

                        I would advise not playing there.
                        I'm figuring that out, unfortunately. Bill still thinks they are and advertises them as such on his site, though, so until he deems otherwise I will expect them to act as one.
                        Comment
                        • Patrick McIrish
                          SBR MVP
                          • 09-15-05
                          • 2864

                          #13
                          Not to get off base here but over at the RX they have a poster who got shafted on a bonus at VIP. Got an email advertising one but just to make sure the guy got hold of a rep to make sure he was eligible. After being told he was able to get the bonus he sent his money. Of course after unsuccessfully getting his account credited with the bonus for a few days he was eventually told he did not qualify after all. Seems like a little thing but never good when a place holding your money goes back on their word IMO. Anyway I told the guy to come over here and write Bill about it since you guys are so high on this book, maybe yall can verify this is true and find out why this was done.
                          Comment
                          • pags11
                            SBR Posting Legend
                            • 08-18-05
                            • 12264

                            #14
                            VIP has known to be shady on occasion...especially regarding bonuses...
                            Comment
                            • Chuck Sims
                              SBR MVP
                              • 12-29-05
                              • 3072

                              #15
                              Too many times VIP has told people to send the money for a nice bonus only to renege after they have your money. Seems to be the policy at VIP. Shady to say the least.
                              Comment
                              • knicknut
                                SBR High Roller
                                • 03-18-06
                                • 241

                                #16
                                18 days and counting with no word or response from them.
                                Comment
                                • tacomax
                                  SBR Hall of Famer
                                  • 08-10-05
                                  • 9619

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Bill Dozer
                                  The core issue wasn't whether or not the glitch occurred but that you are instructed to check your pending wagers. You actually did view the pending wager but did not report the issue until the result of the game was known.
                                  Aside from the same old BS from the same old people concerning VIP - which I may add doesn't add to the thread one little bit - the above post by Bill seems to have been ignored.

                                  A wager was made, the pending wager was then viewed but then only reported when the game was over. If the pending wager wasn't checked, then there may be a basis of a case although this would open VIP up to any number of shot-takers who were trying to take advantage of software issues to get free bets, although I'm not accusing the OP of doing this.

                                  The only thing I can see which VIP are guilty of are inept lines of communication in this case.
                                  Originally posted by pags11
                                  SBR would never get rid of me...ever...
                                  Originally posted by BuddyBear
                                  I'd probably most likely chose Pags to jack off too.
                                  Originally posted by curious
                                  taco is not a troll, he is a bubonic plague bacteria.
                                  Comment
                                  • knicknut
                                    SBR High Roller
                                    • 03-18-06
                                    • 241

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by tacomax
                                    Aside from the same old BS from the same old people concerning VIP - which I may add doesn't add to the thread one little bit - the above post by Bill seems to have been ignored.

                                    A wager was made, the pending wager was then viewed but then only reported when the game was over. If the pending wager wasn't checked, then there may be a basis of a case although this would open VIP up to any number of shot-takers who were trying to take advantage of software issues to get free bets, although I'm not accusing the OP of doing this.

                                    The only thing I can see which VIP are guilty of are inept lines of communication in this case.
                                    I agree, tacomax, that someone could abuse this if they knew it was the case and that VIP was compensating for it. I've reiterated all along, however, that I did not do that (hitting "confirm" was the last activity I had on the website for a couple hours, IIRC), I did not see the pending wagers until the game was in its final seconds, and my browser activity confirms it. They can see that themselves.

                                    I don't deny that in a perfect world I would have caught it, but me not realizing their error immediately absolves them from having faulty software that gives bets different from those you hit confirm on? A blanket statement frees them of any liability?
                                    Comment
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