Australian baseball player killed by Oklahoma teens

[face]

social theories and then there's reality
just don't be naive
i'm not racist but i live in brooklyn and let's just say if someone jacks your shit or mugs you they are probably not chinese or irish
maybe i am jaded. some guys stole my bike, i chased them and they fought me and stole it anyway, and and i have been mugged one time

[The Kraken]

Right. But get past your "realist" label and ask yourself why is it reality? What has happened along the way to make things the way they are? Then you can begin to fix the problem instead of simply dismissing it as a foregone conclusion that its just the way things are.

Somebody hit the nail on the head when they said crime is a class problem, not a race problem.

[face]

no no no
could not disagree more
deal with reality and do not worry about the theories or fixing things
lots of poor people are not criminals

[brooks85]

Right. But get past your "realist" label and ask yourself why is it reality? What has happened along the way to make things the way they are? Then you can begin to fix the problem instead of simply dismissing it as a foregone conclusion that its just the way things are.

Somebody hit the nail on the head when they said crime is a class problem, not a race problem.

Well, reality is America has become the greatest country in the world when it comes to every citizen having equal opportunities to succeed. The only difference is if you're a minority, your chances increase exponentially. You only have to try half as hard if you're black, mexican or native american. Just ask any number of white people who have been screwed out of what they earned because of affirmative action.

And you want to know how the problem can be fixed?

Well, this might come as shock to you but it doesn't involve spending my money one of your poorly thought liberal ideas. It's simply bad parenting.

[747planes]

Best way to fix the black problem in usa is to give one state to the blacks and make a law that they can live only in that state...they can can have obama too! If they wander across the border, shoot them at sight

We can call that state Niggeria!

[The Kraken]

no no no
could not disagree more
deal with reality and do not worry about the theories or fixing things
lots of poor people are not criminals

So ignore the root cause and put a bandaid on reality? Kick the can down the road to deal with it later? Thrust further injustice on an entire class or race of people?

what's the end game? What happens when female black police officers shake you down every morning on your way to work because you're white?

You seem to be advocating the easy way as opposed to the moral way.

Also lots of black people aren't criminals.

[King Mayan]

Well, reality is America has become the greatest country in the world when it comes to every citizen having equal opportunities to succeed. The only difference is if you're a minority, your chances increase exponentially. You only have to try half as hard if you're black, mexican or native american. Just ask any number of white people who have been screwed out of what they earned because of affirmative action.

And you want to know how the problem can be fixed?

Well, this might come as shock to you but it doesn't involve spending my money one of your poorly thought liberal ideas. It's simply bad parenting.

Brooks the only reason you have a job is because of nepotism...yeah a Mexican got screwed out of a job because you were born to your daddy...

[face]

You seem to be advocating the easy way as opposed to the moral way.

i hear what you're saying, i wasn't really advocating anything, and i'm not one to dump on your spirited idea for a better world. repeating myself here, but just to be understod i was just saying to not let progressive thoughts about fairness get in the way of reality, and also said i was a little jaded.
i don't know the solution to stop crime, i have thought about it a little but not sure my posts suggested that i was going down that road, some ideas were posted about more corrective punishment, more creative than jail. brooks' point about good parenting too. i don't really think about it that much. a lot of people are behaving fine and i think about them too.

[Mac4Lyfe]

As soon as someone says. "I'm not racist, but...", I know the next thing out of their mouth is usually misinformed media garbage.

Do your research, crime follows racial lines. In most cases the percentages of murders, robberies, rapes are very similar between victim and suspect. What does that tell you? Blacks kill blacks, Hispanics kill Hispanics, white's kill whites, etc., etc., etc.

Take NYC in 2012. 8.7% of the murders were white victims. Guess the % of the perpetrators? Exactly 8.7%. White people are killing white people. 60% of murders were black victims. 53% were by black people. The other 7% were from mostly Hispanics and a few whites. 27% Hispanics were murdered but not only were Hispanics the perpertrators but Hispanics also killed more whites and blacks. If you look at the numbers, you have a higher chance of being killed by a Hispanic male than a black male in NYC.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/2012_year_end_enforcement_report.pdf

Now white woman have a higher % of being raped by a black or Hispanic. That number is elevated but most all other crime numbers are whites victimizing whites, blacks victimizing blacks, Hispanics victimizing Hispanics. Don't buy into this media rhetoric as if there's some type of racial war going on out there. People hang with people that are just like them and crime happens to people who are around each other.

Stay informed and quit watching TV.

social theories and then there's reality
just don't be naive
i'm not racist but i live in brooklyn and let's just say if someone jacks your shit or mugs you they are probably not chinese or irish
maybe i am jaded. some guys stole my bike, i chased them and they fought me and stole it anyway, and and i have been mugged one time

[face]

how is that media garbage?
just told my stories
back off

you have any stories or just stats?

tell those stats to the thugs while i cross the street

[gauchojake]

White women are the sweetest every race knows that

[Mac4Lyfe]

Face - I can tell you lot's of stories. More than you will want to hear. But, my stories are coming from just me. My world, like your world is not the same. Just because you got your bike stolen, doesn't mean we will all have our bike's stolen, etc., etc. We should not form an opinion on an entire race/class of people based on our limited stories. Look at the big picture, check the stats/facts. I keep mentioning the media because they pick and choose what they want you to hear. You're doing the same thing. Spend some time at the police station. Talk to local police officers. Find out what's really going on in the streets. There is no race war going on out there.

how is that media garbage?
just told my stories
back off

you have any stories or just stats?

tell those stats to the thugs while i cross the street

[gauchojake]

Why do blacks like to steal bikes so much?

[ChalkyDog]

[Matt1144]

Mac I like your point about religion. While I myself don't really have much to do with it anymore, my parents raised me Catholic and took me to church every Sunday. I dreaded it but it was a norm in my culture and looking back I don't regret it. It taught good morals along with my parents being strict and giving me a good smack when I was legit out of line. I believe that a strong upbringing is a huge necessity for any striving society. Unfortunately in America, for many reasons, kids are denied it.

I'm a younger 20 something year old. I've had and still have friends of every race. I've been between middle and lower class (even now I don't see my parents and I don't make much but I'm happy). I recently deleted Facebook (drain on society). I stopped believing everything the media tells us. I read books. I own a gun but understand the laws and rules. I hate things and certain people at times but overall I want to help others and just see everyone get along and not hating/killing each other.

My family got hella screwed up but my initial upbringing made me who I am. A bit of religion and strict parents turned me into a good person in life. I just look at this younger generation and think about how much better off they would be if they just had some damn role models and could think for themselves...

Such a frustrating topic though

[ChalkyDog]

If you need religion to teach you morals, I got bad news for you.

[ACoochy]

i hear what you're saying, i wasn't really advocating anything, and i'm not one to dump on your spirited idea for a better world. repeating myself here, but just to be understod i was just saying to not let progressive thoughts about fairness get in the way of reality, and also said i was a little jaded.

So your comfortable in sounding like a sociopath then cos thats kinda what the above is pointing towards??

If only mastering the art of self manipulation bought to bear no consequences...

[Matt1144]

If you need religion to teach you morals, I got bad news for you.

I didn't say I NEED religion. Note how I said I'm not even religious anymore. I'm just saying it helps. We can get into a whole religious debate but I'd rather not (worse than that is a political debate). All I'm saying is going to church and having parents who knew how to raise me helped me be a normal and overall good person. This day and age kids have parents that don't care, think they're kid is the best kid ever, etc. People need to know their place. Not everyone is going to be rich, a rocket scientist, or even the next president. Parents that don't teach their kids real morals (whether they be through religion or not) and this jaded idea that everyone is the smartest splashed with a bit of terrible social networking and media is what is penetrating up and making everyone stupid....resulting in fcuktards running around killing people for fun.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Chalky - without religion there is no basic moral standard. How do you know right from wrong without a standard? Do you think a child just grows up doing the right thing? Absolutely not, there has to be a moral ground. That ground is rooted in religion. Now, just having religion doesn't make one more moral but at least there's a standard for living. Most all religious doctrine has ways of living and treating others. Without these, we are mere animals, doing whatever you fancy with no regard of the repercussions.

Like it not, the loss of religion (be it at home or taught in school), the increase in today's secular family, the ever increasing amount of people that don't believe in God is the main reason we are where we are today. We have brought up a generation of kids that do not believe in God, so they have no fear of God, so they do not believe that they will be punished for doing bad deeds. If all they have to look for is their miserable life they're living on earth, it's no wonder they have given up all hope and have no regard to human life/decency.

Now of course we have seen our share of violence in the name of religion. I don't claim religion to be the end all be all BUT for the masses of people, a moral doctrine from religion is not a bad thing IMO.

If you need religion to teach you morals, I got bad news for you.

[ACoochy]

Chalky - without religion there is no basic moral standard.

Dude are you serious for real??

Mac have you been watching fox news lately cos this sounds very foxish to me??

[Matt1144]

Now of course we have seen our share of violence in the name of religion. I don't claim religion to be the end all be all BUT for the masses of people, a moral doctrine from religion is not a bad thing IMO.

Probably the most important thing to also mention there!

[Mac4Lyfe]

Well said...

One of the good things religion did was give parents a road map on how to train their kids. Today's parents are so deficient in how to raise kids that it's the blind leading the blind. For all these crimes we see, if you look at the messed up parents, you will get an answer for the madness. You want to fix a lot of the problems? Start teaching parents how to raise their children. It should be mandated, but unfortunately, there's no money in that and the liberals don't want you telling poor folks how to live their lives.

I didn't say I NEED religion. Note how I said I'm not even religious anymore. I'm just saying it helps. We can get into a whole religious debate but I'd rather not (worse than that is a political debate). All I'm saying is going to church and having parents who knew how to raise me helped me be a normal and overall good person. This day and age kids have parents that don't care, think they're kid is the best kid ever, etc. People need to know their place. Not everyone is going to be rich, a rocket scientist, or even the next president. Parents that don't teach their kids real morals (whether they be through religion or not) and this jaded idea that everyone is the smartest splashed with a bit of terrible social networking and media is what is penetrating up and making everyone stupid....resulting in fcuktards running around killing people for fun.

[ACoochy]

Politicians should revert back to philosophies of politics and policies, not structuring those policies around the highest bidders...

[brooks85]

Brooks the only reason you have a job is because of nepotism...yeah a Mexican got screwed out of a job because you were born to your daddy...

I would bet that is the biggest word you know. And, I would win because that is what I do.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Of course I'm serious and no, I don't watch the news.

Let me ask you a question? How did you learn right from wrong? What is right? What is wrong? Is it okay to kill? Is it okay to steal? Why not? Where did you get your standards? Is it okay to sleep with another man's wife? Is it okay to do what you want to do? Where do you think most laws were derived?

The early US settlers were all religious... ALL of them. The main reason the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment where Thomas Jefferson used "Separation of Church and State" was because they saw what was happening in Europe with religious conflict in France and Germany. Most early immigrants came to the US in order to worship freely. The Constitution was written purposely so that no 1 religion would be considered the main religion or to give favoritism to one group of religious followers. But that does not change the fact that religion was a way of life early on in the US.

Unfortunately, the Supreme court since the 1940s have attacked any semblance of religion in the public. The removal of prayer in school in 1962, not even allowing a moment of silence in 1985, then again in 2002 removing God from "One Nation under God" in our pledge of allegiance. The removal of religion was not the intent of our early fathers. They just wanted to ensure that one religion would not benefit $$$ over another in the name of the state.

Dude are you serious for real??

Mac have you been watching fox news lately cos this sounds very foxish to me??

[brooks85]

haha that is great

[Optional]

Chalky - without religion there is no basic moral standard.

Religion did not create, nor does it own morality.

Wow.

Do you think there was no thoughtfulness or philosphy in humanity before organized religion corralled the cattle?

[Optional]

Unfortunately, the Supreme court since the 1940s have attacked any semblance of religion in the public. The removal of prayer in school in 1962, not even allowing a moment of silence in 1985, then again in 2002 removing God from "One Nation under God" in our pledge of allegiance. The removal of religion was not the intent of our early fathers. They just wanted to ensure that one religion would not benefit $$$ over another in the name of the state.

Yet you argue Christianity should be forced down our kids throats with math and reading like it is a factual thing!?

The further organized religous doctrine is kept from our state the better for our children, and humanity.

The founding fathers were definitely correct there.

[ACoochy]

Of course I'm serious and no, I don't watch the news.

Let me ask you a question? How did you learn right from wrong? What is right? What is wrong? Is it okay to kill? Is it okay to steal? Why not? Where did you get your standards? Is it okay to sleep with another man's wife? Is it okay to do what you want to do? Where do you think most laws were derived?

The early US settlers were all religious... ALL of them. The main reason the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment where Thomas Jefferson used "Separation of Church and State" was because they saw what was happening in Europe with religious conflict in France and Germany. Most early immigrants came to the US in order to worship freely. The Constitution was written purposely so that no 1 religion would be considered the main religion or to give favoritism to one group of religious followers. But that does not change the fact that religion was a way of life early on in the US.

Unfortunately, the Supreme court since the 1940s have attacked any semblance of religion in the public. The removal of prayer in school in 1962, not even allowing a moment of silence in 1985, then again in 2002 removing God from "One Nation under God" in our pledge of allegiance. The removal of religion was not the intent of our early fathers. They just wanted to ensure that one religion would not benefit $$$ over another in the name of the state.

Well having not come from a country founded by war i can confidently say that the study of philosophies has helped mould a ethical ethos around the person i am today.

Like to think of myself as a altruist but thats not purely realistic in todays capitalist driven environment.

Try to adhere to the philosophies of past and current critical thinkers such as Bentham, Singer and Mill (to name a few).

I have no issue with people being religious, just so long as its part of a balanced world view and not a primary instrument to how one should live their life.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Facts obviously prove that statement wrong.

I never argued Christianity should be forced down anyone's throat. I'm certainly not promoting Christianity in this thread. I merely said that we had a greater sense of morality when we were a more religious country.

Yet you argue Christianity should be forced down our kids throats with math and reading like it is a factual thing!?

The further organized religous doctrine is kept from our state the better for our children, and humanity.

The founding fathers were definitely correct there.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Unfortunately, US children are not educated on philosophy. Too many people don't want our kids to be molded ethically in any way. It's too controversial to teach kids right from wrong as it may be construed as religion. Thus the erosion of common decency.

Well having not come from a country founded by war i can confidently say that the study of philosophies has helped mould a ethical ethos around the person i am today.

Like to think of myself as a altruist but thats not purely realistic in todays capitalist driven environment.

Try to adhere to the philosophies of past and current critical thinkers such as Bentham, Singer and Mill (to name a few).

I have no issue with people being religious, just so long as its part of a balanced world view and not a primary instrument to how one should live their life.

[C-Gold]

Unfortunately, US children are not educated on philosophy. Too many people don't want our kids to be molded ethically in any way. It's too controversial to teach kids right from wrong as it may be construed as religion. Thus the erosion of common decency.

You sound like an ignorant Bigot.

[Matt1144]

You sound like an ignorant Bigot.

A bit harsh don't ya think?

From what I'm told philosophy is actually an optional course in most secondary schools in countries outside of the U.S. I personally think that is a great topic to teach kids. It teaches a younger generation to not only THINK, but to really think outside of the box and question the things they are told and taught.

I took a few philosophy courses during my time in college and while the more specific ones may be bland, the more general ones could really be beneficial when teaching younger classes.

I love this country but I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like our education system isn't shit. I live in Chicago and our system and economy is so screwed they are shutting DOWN schools. What does that show kids when our money is being spent on god knows what instead of funding education?

I feel like we're just going in circles but I think we can all start agreeing that our crime problems are really stemming from societal problems like lack of education and broken family ties rather than the laws that we are or aren't imposing on guns.

p.s. - I had no idea they took the "One nation under god part" out of the pledge of allegiance. We stopped saying it after 6th grade and for me that was 2001 so makes sense I didn't know about that.

[King Mayan]

I would bet that is the biggest word you know. And, I would win because that is what I do.

Brooks you should be happy you have a job.. Without your daddy's help you would be a hobo.. Be grateful motherfukker..

[C-Gold]

Matt1144

No Macy4lyfe is just ignorant. Do you know why most of the people killed in black neighborhoods are black people? Because most of the people there are black! White people like him do everything they can to stay away from black neighborhoods. Even government loving academics. They all want token black friends at their university, but make no mistake, they want to live in the safe white part of town.

He says white people are safer in black neighborhoods than black people.

Really? Why, because there are less white deaths there? Well you know what smart guy, there is also a lot smaller sample size. Most white people do everything they can to stay on the white side of Martin Luther King highway. A few white people might get lost there or end up there for work and they are disproportionately the victim of violent crimes.

Pick a ghetto. If it is 99% black then most of the killings there are going to be black people. If some white tourists get lost there they get robbed or shot for fun. The only reason they were there was because they were lost, not because they decided to take a trip to the zoo. So yeah, a lot more Tyrones, and LeKeyshas and DeAndress are shot in the ghetto, that doesn't mean Clark Griswald is any safer there because there are statistically less white deaths. There is a huge sampling bias. White people don't want to go to shitty black neighborhoods. That goes for Republicans, Democrats, educated, uneducated, blue collar, welfare. White people don't want anything to do with the inner city black crowd.

Tell Macy4Lyfe to try taking a statistics course instead of living life as an ignorant baboon.