LeBron is the best basketball player ever.

[InTheDrink]

thank you for that

perhaps you could add something to the forum other than just trying to save me embarassment?

perhaps a winner this evening? or some good advice? or do you just prefer to troll and argue?

here's a tax tip for sbr - you can legitimately write off your betislands losses! call it "non-business bad debt" on schedule d, up to $3000/year.

any other tax questions just shoot me a pm

good fight mike

ive posted my thoughts on why jordan should be held above lebron....isnt that what this thread is about?

i guess thats trolling in your world....im sorry you dont know much about the nba and resort to nonsensical arguments to support your opinions

and dont worry....i'll stay away from your hockey posts

[milwaukee mike]

fair enough drinker, i just like to argue sometimes

without nonsensical arguments what would we have to discuss

[CrazyCarl]

Heat are pretty disappointing this year. They should be contending for the best record of all-time with their roster, yet there are two teams with better records.

[Mitchell88]

Len Bias minus the mad coke/crack habit, dispute that. lol

[Seaweed]

"The best player in the NBA is based on subjective opinions. The only way to determine the best player is to arrive at a common criteria to judge the best player ever. Clearly, many people have different criteria on what makes a player the best ever. Some have suggested points per game, championships, assists, performance under pressure, MVPs, the era the player is/has been playing in, or a combination of numerous topics. The list goes on. It is a debate with no end, and no agreement in sight. There have been many players that have blessed the game in their own unique way. Some have excelled more than others, but it remains difficult to determine what makes the best player. The same problem is found here at SBR with Opie's poster of the month award. There is no criteria, and the opinion is based solely on personal choice and rationality."

SBR Lou.

[pavyracer]

Jordan can play one on one with Lebron and give him a 10-0 lead and still beat him.

[milwaukee mike]

"The best player in the NBA is based on subjective opinions. The only way to determine the best player is to arrive at a common criteria to judge the best player ever. Clearly, many people have different criteria on what makes a player the best ever. Some have suggested points per game, championships, assists, performance under pressure, MVPs, the era the player is/has been playing in, or a combination of numerous topics. The list goes on. It is a debate with no end, and no agreement in sight. There have been many players that have blessed the game in their own unique way. Some have excelled more than others, but it remains difficult to determine what makes the best player. The same problem is found here at SBR with Opie's poster of the month award. There is no criteria, and the opinion is based solely on personal choice and rationality."

SBR Lou.

yeah the only time he got that right was december 2012

[milwaukee mike]

Jordan can play one on one with Lebron and give him a 10-0 lead and still beat him.

up to 11? i'll take lebron

[Seaweed]

[QUOTE=milwaukee mike;17797572]yeah the only time he got that right was december 2012[/QUO

Last i checked i didn't win December.

[You mad bro]

you guys realize lebron plays in a time where there is no defense played at all? you also realize that if he played in a time where the admiral from san antonio was playing or if he played the knicks in the 90s that he wouldnt be getting to the rim so easy?

also this day and age they never call a travel .. he takes 3 steps on every drive so of course its easier for him ... if lebron played in the 90s he would just be another 20 5 5 guy and nothing special ...

this is why the NBA is a joke because its all about offense and putting fans in the seats with high intensity dunks ...

btw jordan is also better than lebron and always will be

[milwaukee mike]

you guys realize lebron plays in a time where there is no defense played at all? you also realize that if he played in a time where the admiral from san antonio was playing or if he played the knicks in the 90s that he wouldnt be getting to the rim so easy?

also this day and age they never call a travel .. he takes 3 steps on every drive so of course its easier for him ... if lebron played in the 90s he would just be another 20 5 5 guy and nothing special ...

this is why the NBA is a joke because its all about offense and putting fans in the seats with high intensity dunks ...

btw jordan is also better than lebron and always will be

so patrick ewing never was allowed to travel?

watch #9 and #8 - he travelled twice on both of those plays!

[You mad bro]

so patrick ewing never was allowed to travel?

watch #9 and #8 - he travelled twice on both of those plays!

never said they didnt .. but if u watch a game from the 70s-80s there was 10x less traveling in the game ... yes jordan did his fare share i cant argue that ... lebron plays in a league where there is no defense so its easy to score 25 a game

imagine if wilt or kareem played in this time era with the lack of dominate centers? they would average 40 points a game with ease

not 1 center in the league could stop them .... btw idk if u ever heard of a defense animal in bill russel ... yeah try getting layups and easy dunks on him

[mcduggly]

you guys realize lebron plays in a time where there is no defense played at all? you also realize that if he played in a time where the admiral from san antonio was playing or if he played the knicks in the 90s that he wouldnt be getting to the rim so easy?

also this day and age they never call a travel .. he takes 3 steps on every drive so of course its easier for him ... if lebron played in the 90s he would just be another 20 5 5 guy and nothing special ...

this is why the NBA is a joke because its all about offense and putting fans in the seats with high intensity dunks ...

btw jordan is also better than lebron and always will be

Dumb. In 20 years, people are gonna be saying how much better defense was now than in the future for the sake of argument. In that same amount of time, people will remember guys like Dwight Howard, Tyson Chandler, and Serge Ibaka for their defensive abilities. Dwight Howard might even be the best defensive player ever, but that's a whole separate argument for another day.

[You mad bro]

Dumb. In 20 years, people are gonna be saying how much better defense was now than in the future for the sake of argument. In that same amount of time, people will remember guys like Dwight Howard, Tyson Chandler, and Serge Ibaka for their defensive abilities. Dwight Howard might even be the best defensive player ever, but that's a whole separate argument for another day.

blocking shots doesnt mean you are the best defensive player in the world .. howards on ball defense is horrible .. his size and length gives him the ability to block a shot ...ibaka is the best defensive player in the world right now ... and how can u even say dwight howard is better defensively than bill russell ...

[milwaukee mike]

youmadbro, i think the point is that there is always a "nostalgia" aspect to people in their 40s thinking things were better 20 or 30 years ago, people usually think the music and sports stars they watched and listened to in their youth were the best.

so when i was a teenager or 20-something arguing that jordan could be the greatest ever, my dad would laugh and say it was russell or chamberlain.

i am probably the only one of my friends in the 40-year old range that thinks lebron is better than jordan. yet if i was in a group of teenagers it would probably be a closer split. and if i went to a nursing home they would all say wilt or russell, or some other old timer.

[ThaTopMoron]

you guys realize lebron plays in a time where there is no defense played at all? you also realize that if he played in a time where the admiral from san antonio was playing or if he played the knicks in the 90s that he wouldnt be getting to the rim so easy?

also this day and age they never call a travel .. he takes 3 steps on every drive so of course its easier for him ... if lebron played in the 90s he would just be another 20 5 5 guy and nothing special ...

this is why the NBA is a joke because its all about offense and putting fans in the seats with high intensity dunks ...

btw jordan is also better than lebron and always will be

yep... especially with the fact that the NBA is a joke now compared to the late 80s and 90s. i loved the NBA as a kid up till about the 99 lockout... that hurt it... it was ok then with the Lakers team, but there were no teams in the east to even give them a tough finals... and the refs helped them in the West 2000 to 2002 3 year period at times plus Jordan came back and played for the Wiz, that helped the NBA in the early 2000s.

now its a joke and i only watch the playoffs or some reg season games if i have money on them and I am not loyal to any one team... just have some players i like to root for or against. the product is horrible 90% of the time

[PAULYPOKER]

This thread is more of a race war than staying on the actual topic........

Only on SBR......

[milwaukee mike]

yep... especially with the fact that the NBA is a joke now compared to the late 80s and 90s. i loved the NBA as a kid up till about the 99 lockout... that hurt it... it was ok then with the Lakers team, but there were no teams in the east to even give them a tough finals... and the refs helped them in the West 2000 to 2002 3 year period at times plus Jordan came back and played for the Wiz, that helped the NBA in the early 2000s.

now its a joke and i only watch the playoffs or some reg season games if i have money on them and I am not loyal to any one team... just have some players i like to root for or against. the product is horrible 90% of the time

and if you were 30 years older you would think the 50s and 60s were "real basketball" and the 80s and 90s were a joke

[ThaTopMoron]

and if you were 30 years older you would think the 50s and 60s were "real basketball" and the 80s and 90s were a joke

No... I am only 28 years old so you would think I would be one of the fools saying Kobe and LeBron are just as good as Jordan.... but I don't. I watched Jordan most of his dominating run in the 90s once I got into basketball as a kid. Trust me, I've watched Kobe since he was playing on the Lakers and facing Jordan! Watched LeBron since he was drafted, especially as he was on the Cavs and I live in Ohio. Nothing either of these guys has done is even close to what Jordan and the Bulls did in the 90s. Its easier to be dominant... teams don't give a shit half of their games in the season anymore these days... play down to everybody. That wasn't the NBA in the 90s. Teams actually gave a shit on defense but teams still scored points because they executed properly on offense and ran more sets/plays and actually gave a shit about making free throws, etc. Refs don't help the product either with their shitty officiating and raping teams daily. LeBron is hurt in my eyes because of the way the league is right now. I'm not just going with Jordan over LeBron because I want too. Face facts... the NBA is a shitty league so there should be no reason anyone who plays right now is even close to being the GOAT. Fact is LeBron had to go and play with his superstar buddies to get back to the Finals and then win it finally. Hurts him big time. Kobe won as a young guy with Shaq & company, but he was a big part of winning of course. He got it done back to back years with a wimpy Gasol and young, injured... inconsistent Bynum but had the coaching and the bench play. Kobe isn't close to Jordan either in my eyes.

[ThaTopMoron]

and if you were 30 years older you would think the 50s and 60s were "real basketball" and the 80s and 90s were a joke

the 50's and 60's ??? lol

yeah, because a league of like 8 teams and no 3 pt line and no real defined concepts of defense or offense sounds better. games 130 to 125 every night.

[yahoonino]

best player ever it michael jordan , never see any bettere

[ThaTopMoron]

best player ever it michael jordan , never see any bettere

...said what I have to say on this tired argument once again. It's getting as old as the Peyton vs Brady days.

[milwaukee mike]

the 50's and 60's ??? lol

yeah, because a league of like 8 teams and no 3 pt line and no real defined concepts of defense or offense sounds better. games 130 to 125 every night.

absolutely. but most of the guys in their late 20s and older (like you) think the nba currently stinks because, at least on some level, it's a kid's game and they have outgrown it.

part of jordan's "mystique" is a bunch of complete lies he has repeated (like being cut from his high school team, which never happened), having some darn good teammates, and getting free throws every time he was breathed on.

[ThaTopMoron]

absolutely. but most of the guys in their late 20s and older (like you) think the nba currently stinks because, at least on some level, it's a kid's game and they have outgrown it.

part of jordan's "mystique" is a bunch of complete lies he has repeated (like being cut from his high school team, which never happened), having some darn good teammates, and getting free throws every time he was breathed on.

sorry but I will never say someone who basically quit on a team and a city and left to win the easy way is one of the best. he can be top 10 in my book. still remember his last game as a cavalier... he didn't even give 20% vs the Celtics that game.. and that is not a lie. he gave up. quitter. went and hid in the corner while his teammates played ball and tried to win the game.

[dlunc3]

No... I am only 28 years old so you would think I would be one of the fools saying Kobe and LeBron are just as good as Jordan.... but I don't. I watched Jordan most of his dominating run in the 90s once I got into basketball as a kid. Trust me, I've watched Kobe since he was playing on the Lakers and facing Jordan! Watched LeBron since he was drafted, especially as he was on the Cavs and I live in Ohio. Nothing either of these guys has done is even close to what Jordan and the Bulls did in the 90s. Its easier to be dominant... teams don't give a shit half of their games in the season anymore these days... play down to everybody. That wasn't the NBA in the 90s. Teams actually gave a shit on defense but teams still scored points because they executed properly on offense and ran more sets/plays and actually gave a shit about making free throws, etc. Refs don't help the product either with their shitty officiating and raping teams daily. LeBron is hurt in my eyes because of the way the league is right now. I'm not just going with Jordan over LeBron because I want too. Face facts... the NBA is a shitty league so there should be no reason anyone who plays right now is even close to being the GOAT. Fact is LeBron had to go and play with his superstar buddies to get back to the Finals and then win it finally. Hurts him big time. Kobe won as a young guy with Shaq & company, but he was a big part of winning of course. He got it done back to back years with a wimpy Gasol and young, injured... inconsistent Bynum but had the coaching and the bench play. Kobe isn't close to Jordan either in my eyes.

you act like jordan did it by himself... are you forgetting that he had the best #2 (also a top 50 player of all time) in the league, best rebounder in the league, the best shooter in the league, the best european in the league, and the best coach of all time? weird how that works huh? yea, i doubt lebron would have ever won with those guys

[ThaTopMoron]

lfyou act like jordan did it by himself.. are you forgetting that he had the best #2 (also a top 50 player of all time) in the league, best rebounder in the league, the best shooter in the league, the best european in the league, and the best coach of all time? weird how that works huh? yea, i doubt lebron would have ever won with those guys

nobody does it by themselves, in any sport. well, I mean NBA,MLB,NFL.... anything but Golf or Tennis. never said that, don't put words in my mouth. Jordan's team always played up to potential because they followed the leadership of Jordan, Scottie... the big dogs.

[good_money]

heat should trade bosh for howard

[bjb7223]

heat should trade bosh for howard

I've been thinking that for the last month. I think the Lakers would bite

[good_money]

I've been thinking that for the last month. I think the Lakers would bite

I think the heat agreeing would be the hard part

[Seaweed]

lebron making history

[milwaukee mike]

lebron making history

won't matter to the haters that said he always choked, then they said he would never win a championship, now they just say jordan was better.

lebron could score 50 points and make every shot in 10 straight games and it still wouldn't change some people's minds.

why can't we just appreciate one hell of a great basketball player?

[Seaweed]

I remember watching Lebron's first game against Sacramento like it was yesterday. He was 18 years old and put on a show his first game with all the hype surrounding him. Nobody EVER faced more hype then he did coming in the league, and being on the front cover of sports illustrated. He was a millionaire before he stepped on the court. He could've taken the easy way out since the beginning like many others but he continued to get better every year. I have never seen someone answer the critics and doubters better than he has.

[mcduggly]

won't matter to the haters that said he always choked, then they said he would never win a championship, now they just say jordan was better.

lebron could score 50 points and make every shot in 10 straight games and it still wouldn't change some people's minds.

why can't we just appreciate one hell of a great basketball player?

Exactly. People will talk about him for many years after his playing days are over. We get to witness his play first-hand.

[brigade125]

you guys realize lebron plays in a time where there is no defense played at all? you also realize that if he played in a time where the admiral from san antonio was playing or if he played the knicks in the 90s that he wouldnt be getting to the rim so easy?

also this day and age they never call a travel .. he takes 3 steps on every drive so of course its easier for him ... if lebron played in the 90s he would just be another 20 5 5 guy and nothing special ...

this is why the NBA is a joke because its all about offense and putting fans in the seats with high intensity dunks ...

btw jordan is also better than lebron and always will be

excellent point... about the defense ...and how the nba changed to make it easier for players to score... handchecks were allowed which made it difficult for players to score... is why scoring is way up compared to 20 years ago... also there where no 3 seconds rule.. which means defensive players can just stand in the paint all day.. and bill lambeer from the pistons was a master at it getting those charged fouls...all through out the game... i hated that guy...jordan imo is better than labron

[mcduggly]

excellent point... about the defense ...and how the nba changed to make it easier for players to score... handchecks were allowed which made it difficult for players to score... is why scoring is way up compared to 20 years ago... also there where no 3 seconds rule.. which means defensive players can just stand in the paint all day.. and bill lambeer from the pistons was a master at it getting those charged fouls...all through out the game... i hated that guy...jordan imo is better than labron

You're opinion doesn't even count, considering you don't even know how to spell LeBron's name.