Horse Racing questions and answers

[str]

hey str

in aqu R1 tony dutrow has a 2nd time starter (2yo) by galileo who cost a bunch.. ran 2nd first time outat balloon odds 28-1..interesting there going on dirt here but I'm guessing lack of available turf races to run in might have something to do with it.. just making you aware.. no value to be had off debut race

I guess they answered the dirt question.

That had to kill Tony watching that. Must have felt like it took 10 minutes to run that race.

Been there, done that. Ugh.

[JBEX]

I guess they answered the dirt question.

That had to kill Tony watching that. Must have felt like it took 10 minutes to run that race.

Been there, done that. Ugh.

yeah she didn't want any part of it..dam was a multiple graded stakes winner of over $2M
and only ran once on the turf from 19 starts ..can certainly see trying dirt off of that..as you mentioned probably see her at gulfstream if she's ok

[JBEX]

hey str

was looking where the AM's might be running in the upcoming week and one of the spots is a maiden optional claimer at GP (R1) on saturday..1 mile on the turf..If you're a florida bred you can run without a tag otherwise $50k


dont really care for him. looks like a tough trip first out and you can never count out a clement 2nd time starter..going to try a different one


soupersilverdollar (post 9 but #'s not assigned yet)..fts so lets get it over with and acknowledge that its not ideal and even more-so for a debut horse..however i like the pedigree (main reason) ..trainer avg at best with firsters overall and on the turf..gets to go w/o a tag being a statebred..steady works on the dirt at palm meadows however the last 2 were on the turf..got a bullet breeze but only required a 1:03 to do it ..only 8 horses working at that distance
probably had something to do with it..then the following work (which was his last) breezing he went a tick under 53 and that got him the 2nd fastest work out of 24 but it was with the dogs up
..I've heard that before and think it means there's a barrier or flags that force the horse to run wider on the course ? must have been very far out to make that time a fast work especially on a firm turf..just wanted to see what you think of that workout time and feel free to make any other comments on the race

[str]

hey str

was looking where the AM's might be running in the upcoming week and one of the spots is a maiden optional claimer at GP (R1) on saturday..1 mile on the turf..If you're a florida bred you can run without a tag otherwise $50k


dont really care for him. looks like a tough trip first out and you can never count out a clement 2nd time starter..going to try a different one


soupersilverdollar (post 9 but #'s not assigned yet)..fts so lets get it over with and acknowledge that its not ideal and even more-so for a debut horse..however i like the pedigree (main reason) ..trainer avg at best with firsters overall and on the turf..gets to go w/o a tag being a statebred..steady works on the dirt at palm meadows however the last 2 were on the turf..got a bullet breeze but only required a 1:03 to do it ..only 8 horses working at that distance
probably had something to do with it..then the following work (which was his last) breezing he went a tick under 53 and that got him the 2nd fastest work out of 24 but it was with the dogs up
..I've heard that before and think it means there's a barrier or flags that force the horse to run wider on the course ? must have been very far out to make that time a fast work especially on a firm turf..just wanted to see what you think of that workout time and feel free to make any other comments on the race

Look's like the Army Mule should run better on turf being is that is where he was meant to start in his 1st race. With multiple works over turf, Clement had this in mind for awhile.

That said, lets address your question.

I see the pedigree. Can't blame you for that.

As for working on turf vs. dirt. The simplest way to describe it as a whole is that it is most times night and day different and the times can show it.

Dirt can be about many different things. From a relax and finish workout to a gun from the start workout. It's why I say that times can be extremely deceiving in the mornings. It's not how fast they worked, but HOW they did what they did.

With turf, it is almost always relax and finish. That shows up in the afternoon as well as we see. So a slower workout is almost anticipated. Now add the dogs to the equation and it will be much slower.

The dogs, are actual hard rubber cones, just like what you see when they divert traffic out of a lane when there is roadwork. Those cones are about every 50-100 feet from each other and you are not allowed inside of them. They are typically placed outside of where a race would run, so roughly a starting gates width from the rail. So, pretty far off the inside. Times will naturally be slower from that but what makes them slower still is the fact that you don't usually see horses work around dogs in company which has horses waaay out in the middle of the track working. In a situation like that, riders must be VERY concerned about the horse seeing something that could possibly spoke them as well as having the horses mind wonder a bit from not working closer to the inside rail. Depends on the horse but you hopefully know what I mean.

So the horse is typically gathered up well with the reins and the bit and is being communicated to with that bit more so with the rider. That will lead often times to a horse paying more attention to the rider than it is running fast. Thus slower times. Add the wide trip with a careful first ride and you get a slower time compared to if someone it sending a horse on the dirt down on the rail and going 3/8's in 34 and change. Hope that makes sense the way I described it. If not let me know.

I remember writing a long time ago how horses in the middle of the track can be distracted by noise and things going on in front of the grandstand while working. This can be especially true on turf, around dogs. Why? Well, typically you cannot work on turf before about 9 AM.
That is because the main track is very busy and too much going on on the turf course is dangerous for the dirt horses as they can spook, duck or whatever from horses on turf not typically seen by horses training in the morning. So, by 9AM , if for instance the track is running that afternoon, the beer truck might be on the apron in front of the grandstand or the food services truck. They are probably unloading kegs of beer or food and all that is noise, and a distraction horses breezing are not used to seeing . Put a horse in the middle of the turf course with that unexpected disruption and they are more apt to duck, spook, or whatever. That possibility leads to the rider staying more wrapped up on the horse and careful not to let the reins out all the way. Riders will also ride " longer" with their stirrups in cases like that for more leverage. The old track adage is " the longer you ride, the longer you ride". Meaning, jack your irons up too high and it is easier to get dropped. Longer irons along with the loss of ground and staying defensive and wrapped up on a horse equals much slower times.
So, when you see dogs up, do not IMO pay any attention to times. The fact that the horse got a bullet is a positive. But, if he was slowest of all, that does not mean it is a negative. Kind of weird to say, but that is the way to look at it.

As for the race itself, the four inside horses seem to have a nice advantage breaking so close to the 1st turn and seemingly having some speed. Unless they duel and kill one another, looks like they have an upper hand going into the race. But the race has plenty of possible winners on paper. Pace will probably make this race at the end of the day. It usually does. It is interesting for sure with young horses coming from several different tracks.

Cool race. GL if you play JBEX !

[JBEX]

thanks str

so it is more than just traveling further that causes the slower times..makes a lot of sense about the higher potential for distractions racing out there and you certainly don't want to get spooked in the middle of the track..not paying attention to bad times a good thing to know about going forward..doesn't hurt to have good one's though

besides mine I'd go imposter syndrome .. useful race at woodbine where he went off a luke warm favorite..big turf pedigree (lot bigger than mine)..combined with that trainer I think he'll be below 2-1..he also had a couple of blazing fast turf works at palm meadows with the dogs up including 5f in a blistering 1:08¹ lol

[mcaulay777]

Now that were getting into the Winter starting to check out fanduel tv a little more i have direct tv there has been noTampa on the main channel googled so nothing so is there no contract with them i know my buddy who passed away loved Tampa!

[str]

Now that were getting into the Winter starting to check out fanduel tv a little more i have direct tv there has been noTampa on the main channel googled so nothing so is there no contract with them i know my buddy who passed away loved Tampa!

I just checked and it looks like Laurel, Gulfstream and Aqueduct.

I do remember seeing Tampa last winter. With two channels of the old TVG, I would assume one would show Tampa but maybe not. That is what they used to do.

Sorry I can't be more help.

[str]

Over the past several months I have been asked by a lot of people, if the book "The Fast Ride" which is a book about Spectacular Bid and all that went with his journey, was true.

The answer is Absolutely !

There are 2 or 3 inaccuracies in it but after 45 years and not that many people still alive to tell about it, it is amazingly correct.

Anyone that has read the book, feel free to ask away. I was right in the thick of that.

If you have not yet read it, and you want to hear an incredible story that is overall, very accurate, what a great time to buy it and read about a great horse and a incredibly wild journey that took place.

An inexpensive holiday gift for someone or, yourself. It comes in paperback and pretty sure it is still on Amazon. If not, it's around.

I could not put it down. I read it in one day. Man, I felt like I was back there again as I knew all the people mentioned, and most very well.

I'm sure you will like it if you try it.

[JBEX]

hey str

mike stidham is having an excellent early part of the meet
at fg ..caught a fts who won easy going 2 turns today..pedigree was modest on that one and he's got an ultra expensive filly going 2 turns first out friday..bred to do just that top and bottom

R8 #5 cushee (9-2) 5:45

always like when trainers are hot at a meet and have a horse like this running ..steady works at fair hill training center and fg..was wondering if the 39 day break in works bothers you? another (positive) point you've made to me is happening here also as this horse was purchased as a yearling vs as a 2yo..you can't see the horse work and/or before it's fully developed and willing to plunk money down i believe is the logic ?

a "may" foal but maybe that starts to matter a little less now .. can't have everything in line lol

jockey won only time he rode for stidham..think lower and if 6-1 or higher wouldn't touch her

[miaplus3]

Look's like the Army Mule should run better on turf being is that is where he was meant to start in his 1st race. With multiple works over turf, Clement had this in mind for awhile.

That said, lets address your question.

I see the pedigree. Can't blame you for that.

As for working on turf vs. dirt. The simplest way to describe it as a whole is that it is most times night and day different and the times can show it.

Dirt can be about many different things. From a relax and finish workout to a gun from the start workout. It's why I say that times can be extremely deceiving in the mornings. It's not how fast they worked, but HOW they did what they did.

With turf, it is almost always relax and finish. That shows up in the afternoon as well as we see. So a slower workout is almost anticipated. Now add the dogs to the equation and it will be much slower.

The dogs, are actual hard rubber cones, just like what you see when they divert traffic out of a lane when there is roadwork. Those cones are about every 50-100 feet from each other and you are not allowed inside of them. They are typically placed outside of where a race would run, so roughly a starting gates width from the rail. So, pretty far off the inside. Times will naturally be slower from that but what makes them slower still is the fact that you don't usually see horses work around dogs in company which has horses waaay out in the middle of the track working. In a situation like that, riders must be VERY concerned about the horse seeing something that could possibly spoke them as well as having the horses mind wonder a bit from not working closer to the inside rail. Depends on the horse but you hopefully know what I mean.

So the horse is typically gathered up well with the reins and the bit and is being communicated to with that bit more so with the rider. That will lead often times to a horse paying more attention to the rider than it is running fast. Thus slower times. Add the wide trip with a careful first ride and you get a slower time compared to if someone it sending a horse on the dirt down on the rail and going 3/8's in 34 and change. Hope that makes sense the way I described it. If not let me know.

I remember writing a long time ago how horses in the middle of the track can be distracted by noise and things going on in front of the grandstand while working. This can be especially true on turf, around dogs. Why? Well, typically you cannot work on turf before about 9 AM.
That is because the main track is very busy and too much going on on the turf course is dangerous for the dirt horses as they can spook, duck or whatever from horses on turf not typically seen by horses training in the morning. So, by 9AM , if for instance the track is running that afternoon, the beer truck might be on the apron in front of the grandstand or the food services truck. They are probably unloading kegs of beer or food and all that is noise, and a distraction horses breezing are not used to seeing . Put a horse in the middle of the turf course with that unexpected disruption and they are more apt to duck, spook, or whatever. That possibility leads to the rider staying more wrapped up on the horse and careful not to let the reins out all the way. Riders will also ride " longer" with their stirrups in cases like that for more leverage. The old track adage is " the longer you ride, the longer you ride". Meaning, jack your irons up too high and it is easier to get dropped. Longer irons along with the loss of ground and staying defensive and wrapped up on a horse equals much slower times.
So, when you see dogs up, do not IMO pay any attention to times. The fact that the horse got a bullet is a positive. But, if he was slowest of all, that does not mean it is a negative. Kind of weird to say, but that is the way to look at it.

As for the race itself, the four inside horses seem to have a nice advantage breaking so close to the 1st turn and seemingly having some speed. Unless they duel and kill one another, looks like they have an upper hand going into the race. But the race has plenty of possible winners on paper. Pace will probably make this race at the end of the day. It usually does. It is interesting for sure with young horses coming from several different tracks.

Cool race. GL if you play JBEX !

Wow, I never knew.

[str]

hey str

mike stidham is having an excellent early part of the meet
at fg ..caught a fts who won easy going 2 turns today..pedigree was modest on that one and he's got an ultra expensive filly going 2 turns first out friday..bred to do just that top and bottom

R8 #5 cushee (9-2) 5:45

always like when trainers are hot at a meet and have a horse like this running ..steady works at fair hill training center and fg..was wondering if the 39 day break in works bothers you? another (positive) point you've made to me is happening here also as this horse was purchased as a yearling vs as a 2yo..you can't see the horse work and/or before it's fully developed and willing to plunk money down i believe is the logic ?

a "may" foal but maybe that starts to matter a little less now .. can't have everything in line lol

jockey won only time he rode for stidham..think lower and if 6-1 or higher wouldn't touch her

Q. .caught a fts who won easy going 2 turns today..pedigree was modest on that one and he's got an ultra expensive filly going 2 turns first out friday..bred to do just that top and bottom

A. Wonder if these two worked together? Have to think there is a good chance of that. If you can see the pp's from yesterday, take a peak at that and see if this one was quicker. Especially out of the gate.

Q. always like when trainers are hot at a meet and have a horse like this running ..steady works at fair hill training center and fg..was wondering if the 39 day break in works bothers you?

A. A trainer that is hot or very cold is as good an indicator as any. Always smart to consider that. I would pay no attention at all to the 39 days in between. She obviously trained straight through or he wouldn't have let her go 48 on Nov. 7th. Probably had something slight like a small splint or shin that flared up both of which can respond very well with some simple therapy and training, just no workouts. Or, she got a bit sick and he gave her plenty of time to get it behind her.


Q. another (positive) point you've made to me is happening here also as this horse was purchased as a yearling vs as a 2yo..you can't see the horse work and/or before it's fully developed and willing to plunk money down i believe is the logic ?

A. Yep. Yearling have not had a saddle on their backs yet. So it's all about the way the horse looks, is built, the breeding, the eye, ( is the horse smart), the body scope, etc. You pay serious money for a yearling, you can bet they checked the boxes.


Q. a "may" foal but maybe that starts to matter a little less now .. can't have everything in line lol


A. Again, yes. That is why he waited . She's most likely built to go long and it takes a while to grow into that type of body. Kind of like a gawky kid that is tall at a young age. It takes some time to grow into that. The fact that he is running her now, and going long leads me to believe without seeing her, that she is very athletic as well as long in her body.

Q. jockey won only time he rode for stidham

A. Perfect. Thats a positive.

Q. think lower and if 6-1 or higher wouldn't touch her

A. Can't think she will be dead on the board unless there is good reason. Not many that would overlook a 3/4 of a million dollar yearling. But it also stands to reason that he might give that expensive a baby more time to grow into herself if that was the case.

Very sound reasoning IMO.

GL JBEX !

[JBEX]

thanks str


they did work together at fg 2-4 back ..prior to that yesterday's came from Delaware while today's as I said fair hill..think we may have discussed the former might be where stidham is based out of


like the gawky kid analogy ..maybe needed some time and fg might be a better place to start anyway ..
won't be nearly the type of competition you'd get at gulfstream..might just be the horse is ready and the timing of the race is good


agree the sales price being so high is something a lot of the betting public can see which takes away some of the value..hot trainer and expensive will not be lost on them..maybe whole thing is too visible lol..as I said I think she should be under 6-1 to be live

[str]

hey str

mike stidham is having an excellent early part of the meet
at fg ..caught a fts who won easy going 2 turns today..pedigree was modest on that one and he's got an ultra expensive filly going 2 turns first out friday..bred to do just that top and bottom

R8 #5 cushee (9-2) 5:45

always like when trainers are hot at a meet and have a horse like this running ..steady works at fair hill training center and fg..was wondering if the 39 day break in works bothers you? another (positive) point you've made to me is happening here also as this horse was purchased as a yearling vs as a 2yo..you can't see the horse work and/or before it's fully developed and willing to plunk money down i believe is the logic ?

a "may" foal but maybe that starts to matter a little less now .. can't have everything in line lol

jockey won only time he rode for stidham..think lower and if 6-1 or higher wouldn't touch her

Six wire to wire winners and one other laid 2nd.

What was that, a merry go round?

Laid 5th, finished 3rd, probably a nice effort for a firster, considering the way the track seemingly played.

I don't follow that place at all but when I see a chart like that, it makes you wonder.

[JBEX]

Six wire to wire winners and one other laid 2nd.

What was that, a merry go round?

Laid 5th, finished 3rd, probably a nice effort for a firster, considering the way the track seemingly played.

I don't follow that place at all but when I see a chart like that, it makes you wonder.

wasn't aware but seems like it may have been.. better than looked in that case but still was a distant 3rd
.. good for learning and getting some conditioning in her.. point you bought up earlier about it's no secret how much she costs and also that the trainer is hot and probably a bigger name at that track takes a lot of the value out of it.. however the running line will dampen enthusiasm somewhat and also the high possibility that there was a speed bias is not something most (some will of course) will know.. probably worth following for at least a couple of more races

[str]

The trial for Jason Servis ended with guilty pleas on several counts. While a sad end to an even sadder story, I saw where some people were commenting on how frail and in poor health Servis looked and felt sorry for him.

And when I look at it in a certain light, I, to some degree do as well. But please excuse me for not shedding a tear over the verdict and of his looks. I shed plenty of my own in the final day of my career between saying goodbyes to so many dear friends, taking that last walk to my car, driving out of a barn area I had spent just about everyday for the last 28+ years, and leaving behind a career I gave everything up for at the time, to pursue when I was 18 years old.

I did not know Jason. I knew his brother a little. But many people I did know were adversely affected by the actions of those that cheated constantly including those that while caught, were slapped on the wrist and allowed to continue or, those that never were.

Having a drug violation against you on your record was a terrible thing when those drugs were obviously not drugs that were simply mistakes. And yes, if you are a trainer, you know damn well what the difference is. That seemed to change into the 90's when trainers with multiple violations were getting new owners who were leaving honest trainers. The old saying, which I loath of "If you ain't cheatin you aint tryin" , was alive and thriving. Of course, most that uttered that phrase had no idea what they were actually saying and in most cases had never stepped into any arena and competed on a public stage, thus having no idea what they were actually talking about. If they had, they would not have said it.

I have not hid my anger towards how all this has played out since roughly 1988. Most here that have read this thread have heard all about it. But there are plenty other trainers that feel the same way.

I saw a tweet from Graham Motion, a good old friend from my racing days along with his wife Anita. We shared a barn at Laurel for several years. Here it is:

GRAHAM MOTION 16h
"I don’t take any solace in other peoples misery, actually quite the opposite I feel some empathy for them but the reality is that those of us who were beaten by Jason Service’s horses have little to show for it other than losing money, owners and horses due to his success."


That sums it up pretty well.

Thanks Graham ! He's one of many good guys in the game . Taught by honest professionals while coming up,
(Jonathan Sheppard and Bernie Bond to mention two), he along with so many other individuals, realize that the game is bigger than themselves.

In a game that lost it's way with selfish individuals until the testing caught up to them, it's nice to see that people with a platform in which to speak, share their feelings as well as those feelings of other people that go to work everyday, with the best of intentions, in a game that is tough enough when played honestly.

Thanks for your time everyone.

[Easy-Rider 66]

THX for your take STR. Agree with your sentiments.

[str]

An update for anyone interested in the book I mentioned the other day of Spectacular Bid.

I received a note that if you want to buy the book, you should order it through:


University Of Nebraska Press
Use promo code 6HLW22

Save 50% off the list through 12/31

The hard back will cost 17.50 plus shipping and any taxes applicable.

[JBEX]

hey str

parx

R11 #5 mr einstein (10-1)
4:35

even he'd pick a loser here lol..great betting race and figured I'd mention..understand it's late and as usual a write-up if you don't see it it in time

note that really has nothing to do with capping ..this horse ran the same figure,distance and lengths behind in his last 2 races
..final times a tick apart..pretty amazing


he won 3 back but it was a small field,off the turf and according to pace figures got a great set-up..just missed on the turf race prior (today is dirt for all reading) and a nice effort in an off the turf prior to that..even though that race was also off the turf the pace figures he ran being close up were well above avg for today's level and ran kind of evenly around to finish a decent 3rd..gets to try a level where he might wake up,trainer an excellent value (factoring roi)
and a solid jock aboard again..
think they'll be some value to be had with him but it's really as wide open as can be

[str]

hey str

parx

R11 #5 mr einstein (10-1)
4:35

even he'd pick a loser here lol..great betting race and figured I'd mention..understand it's late and as usual a write-up if you don't see it it in time

note that really has nothing to do with capping ..this horse ran the same figure,distance and lengths behind in his last 2 races
..final times a tick apart..pretty amazing


he won 3 back but it was a small field,off the turf and according to pace figures got a great set-up..just missed on the turf race prior (today is dirt for all reading) and a nice effort in an off the turf prior to that..even though that race was also off the turf the pace figures he ran being close up were well above avg for today's level and ran kind of evenly around to finish a decent 3rd..gets to try a level where he might wake up,trainer an excellent value (factoring roi)
and a solid jock aboard again..
think they'll be some value to be had with him but it's really as wide open as can be

The drop down has to help. Off previous races of his, I can see why you would see this one. Plenty to like for that 10-1 or maybe better price. Easy to get lost with those last two races so bad. Probably prefers grass but this time of year, you lay in these types and if you lose them, it's ok. It does get expensive to carry a horse that has already won 3 of four conditions all winter. This looks like the right move IMO.

I wonder if the pattern will hold on the 8 horse where he runs well every other race. According to that pattern, he is due to run poorly today.
The drop down will put that theory to the test today.

Nothing wrong with taking a swing on a horse like this. There will be value if he gives you an effort.

GL if you play JBEX !

[JBEX]

The drop down has to help. Off previous races of his, I can see why you would see this one. Plenty to like for that 10-1 or maybe better price. Easy to get lost with those last two races so bad. Probably prefers grass but this time of year, you lay in these types and if you lose them, it's ok. It does get expensive to carry a horse that has already won 3 of four conditions all winter. This looks like the right move IMO.

I wonder if the pattern will hold on the 8 horse where he runs well every other race. According to that pattern, he is due to run poorly today.
The drop down will put that theory to the test today.

Nothing wrong with taking a swing on a horse like this. There will be value if he gives you an effort.

GL if you play JBEX !

thanks str..didn't notice that the time off to that last off the turf race 5 starts back (43 days) and today is 41 ..difference and not a small one is the race preceding the former was really good and the two leading up to today's are duds..only 1 slow workout also..can excuse 2 back a little as a much higher level and quicker pace..the last a little tougher even though i think it's about 1 level above..half hour away and we'll see

[JBEX]

thanks str..didn't notice that the time off to that last off the turf race 5 starts back (43 days) and today is 41 ..difference and not a small one is the race preceding the former was really good and the two leading up to today's are duds..only 1 slow workout also..can excuse 2 back a little as a much higher level and quicker pace..the last a little tougher even though i think it's about 1 level above..half hour away and we'll see

workout actually wasn't so slow rankings-wise..parx must be a deep track or on that day it was slow

[Easy-Rider 66]

[Easy-Rider 66]

Hey STR: The above race is from Mahoning Valley on 11/19. The horse in question is the #1 Barefoot Beach, the jockey Luis R. Rivera has been suspended 30 days for his ride on the #1. He is the leading Rider by monies earned there. Do you you agree that he put a lack of effort into the ride? THX in advance.

[Easy-Rider 66]

Rivera declined to appeal the suspension, which runs from Dec. 30-Jan. 29, 2023, encompassing 17 racing days at Mahoning Valley.
A native of Puerto Rico who began working at old El Comandante racetrack at age 14, Rivera has won, 2,337 races in North America since 1997. He rode in South Florida and throughout the mid-Atlantic region before settling in Ohio.
“They're trying to say he pulled the horse,” said Jeffrey Radosevich, perennially a leading trainer at Ohio racetracks and currently with 2,999 career wins. “It's bull crap. If I felt my rider quit riding, I would have fired him off everything. Luis Rivera does not do that. There shouldn't have been anything done. What they did was crazy.
“When I ran the horse back in the same spot, she was the favorite and ran a bad seventh under the same rider,” he added.
Radosevich said Rivera told him he thought he had reached the Horseracing Integrity and Safety Authority's six-strike limit in the race.
“HISA took a purse from me last month,” Radosevich said, referring to Sammy's Smile, disqualified from a Nov. 12 Mahoning Valley allowance victory when jockey Erik Barbaran went at least four strikes over the limit. “My rider had to hit the horse an extra time because he was going over on other horses. I tell my guys now, 'Don't over-hit them.'”
Radosevich said neither he nor his son was called in by stewards for questioning but feels Rivera was

[Easy-Rider 66]

The trainer of the horse in question does not agree with the suspension as shown above.

[str]

Hey STR: The above race is from Mahoning Valley on 11/19. The horse in question is the #1 Barefoot Beach, the jockey Luis R. Rivera has been suspended 30 days for his ride on the #1. He is the leading Rider by monies earned there. Do you you agree that he put a lack of effort into the ride? THX in advance.

No, I do not agree.

First things first, This 6 strike rule is a shame. Not because it should be more but because riders some how have it in there head that whipping the crap out of a horse will make it run better, faster, whatever the heck they think. That's just sad but that thought process has been around forever. Especially when not the best riders in the country, that spoil us at Saratoga each year.

In this race, I see riders using the whip around the far turn. My question about that would be, What the hell is that ??? Seems like that is the norm. I don't get it.

You cannot say across the board that you should hit a horse "X " amount of times. And if the stick is turned down, does that count?? Who knows. Bad and abusive riding has gotten way out of hand.

In this race, the rider in question, did several correct things early on and into the stretch to give his horse the best chance to win. If he didn't want to win, he could easily have taken care of that in a few different ways between the 3/8ths pole and the 1/4 pole.

I saw where he said he thought he had hit the horse 6 times already. I counted 5. So a rider has to remember how many times they strike the horse ? Lol. That is never going to work and I'll leave it at that.

This must have to do with the trainers son winning his first race and beating his dad who had 2,999 at the time.

Or maybe the Stewards are trying to send a message to the riders in the room to get there act together. That would make a lot more sense than this " ruling without explanation ". They do not have to explain to the public. I would assume they met with the riders but again, no clue.
IMO, the winner was the best horse who, when making the lead at the 3/16ths pole ( black and white after they straighten away for home),
started to hang a bit. The blinkers with no holes it was wearing did not allow the horse to see the inside horse and if it was coming again.

Once the horse could see the inside horse, about the 1/16th pole ( black and white also),the winner picked it up again. The head drops slightly and the horse levels out and wins.

Just watch the head of the winner as it turns for home the head goes slightly upward and then comes back down slightly. That's it, just the head. Can you see what I am saying?

Or, try this. Turning for home the heads are even in height approx. Then, when the outside horse makes the lead, notice the outside horses head slightly higher? Then, notice them just before the finish line. Heads are about even again.

If not, it's ok, but if so, you are seeing more than most .

There must be more to this story than what we know. I would lean on that EZ.

Often times, that is the case.

I do not want to knock the Stewards. That's a tough job .


Hope that helps EZ.

All the best.

[Easy-Rider 66]

THX STR for your take. To my untrained eye I agree with your position.

[str]

As a follow up to yesterday’s question about the suspect ride , I wanted to add an important part .
I do not know If this rider is very active on his mounts or more of a sit still style rider.
Without knowing that, I am only making a judgment based on one video.

If he is more of a quiet sitting style rider, I stand behind what I said. But , if he is a very active style rider, meaning a rider that is a pumper and a slasher type rider, then what I saw in the video would not be consistent with how he normally rides and how he normally finishes or looks.
Because I just don’t know, it is a bit reckless to make a judgement based on just that video.

I mention that because the video replay is not cut and dried either way. That, was why I said what I said.


I go back to what I said yesterday in that there simply must be more to this story than just the rerun.

Was there chatter afterwards that led to speculation? I don’t know.
We’re there numerous complaints lodged?
There simply has to be more to this.

If you hear anymore on the subject EZ, or anyone for that matter, feel free to let me know . I would appreciate it.

Hope that makes sense.

[Easy-Rider 66]

As a follow up to yesterday’s question about the suspect ride , I wanted to add an important part .
I do not know If this rider is very active on his mounts or more of a sit still style rider.
Without knowing that, I am only making a judgment based on one video.

If he is more of a quiet sitting style rider, I stand behind what I said. But , if he is a very active style rider, meaning a rider that is a pumper and a slasher type rider, then what I saw in the video would not be consistent with how he normally rides and how he normally finishes or looks.
Because I just don’t know, it is a bit reckless to make a judgement based on just that video.

I mention that because the video replay is not cut and dried either way. That, was why I said what I said.


I go back to what I said yesterday in that there simply must be more to this story than just the rerun.

Was there chatter afterwards that led to speculation? I don’t know.
We’re there numerous complaints lodged?
There simply has to be more to this.

If you hear anymore on the subject EZ, or anyone for that matter, feel free to let me know . I would appreciate it.

Hope that makes sense.

If I hear anything more will hit you back. THX again STR.

[str]

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone at SBR
and especially all those that participate in the horse forum.

[Jellymancan]

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone at SBR
and especially all those that participate in the horse forum.

You too, str. Good luck the rest of the way in the bullseye contest!

[Easy-Rider 66]

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone at SBR
and especially all those that participate in the horse forum.

same to you and yours STR. HAPPY New year as well.

[JBEX]

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone at SBR
and especially all those that participate in the horse forum.

same to you str

[JBEX]

hey str


fairgrounds

R7 #11 liberty hauler's hauler (15-1)


2nd time starter by Army Mule..cost $390k @ kee sept '21
so yearling purchase another plus..Went off 5-1 and did little in his kee debut..albert stall excellent trainer and good value roi

all that being said 11 post in a route and a bad (overbet) route jock..lots of big pedigrees and a few of them have shown talent in limited starts


don't like as a bet..more making you aware one of them is running especially since it's an expensive horse

[JBEX]

hey str


fairgrounds

R7 #11 liberty hauler's hauler (15-1)


2nd time starter by Army Mule..cost $390k @ kee sept '21
so yearling purchase another plus..Went off 5-1 and did little in his kee debut..albert stall excellent trainer and good value roi

all that being said 11 post in a route and a bad (overbet) route jock..lots of big pedigrees and a few of them have shown talent in limited starts


don't like as a bet..more making you aware one of them is running especially since it's an expensive horse

honestly if the post and jockey were better I'd take a flyer but too much to overcome here