Horse Racing questions and answers

[JBEX]

yeah I would assume quite better info today on the market. ANd STR is the KING so to speak on knowledge (lol) but have to throw LKID1, Mr. G&T and you in the mix as well. The pace ratings are huge. imo that's probably one of the main reasons why DRF bought out Timeform.

so what level of pp's do you have to buy to get pace figures..is there somewhere between formulator and classic ? is timeform totally integrated with the form or you can still buy them separately?

[Easy-Rider 66]

so what level of pp's do you have to buy to get pace figures..is there somewhere between formulator and classic ? is timeform totally integrated with the form or you can still buy them separately?

Last time I was up at Delaware Park I used the DRF and they had integrated pace info from TF in their pp's. not as advanced as the BRIS but better than nothing. Mr. G&T uses DRF on the regular so he can answer the question better as far as today goes. I was up at DE Park some years ago.

[JBEX]

Last time I was up at Delaware Park I used the DRF and they had integrated pace info from TF in their pp's. not as advanced as the BRIS but better than nothing. Mr. G&T uses DRF on the regular so he can answer the question better as far as today goes. I was up at DE Park some years ago.

yeah now that you mention it I remember what they did..the C and S which indicated the type of race shape they thought it favored going in..still have a hunch you can get something short of their top product and get pace figures

[Easy-Rider 66]

yeah now that you mention it I remember what they did..the C and S which indicated the type of race shape they thought it favored going in..still have a hunch you can get something short of their top product and get pace figures

yeah that's correct. Maybe Mr. G&T can chime in with some current info. if he checks out the thread.

[str]

I think it's great if you have the knowledge and the time to understand and spot a lot of the things you mentioned..but remember before the early 90's how different the pp's were..until the racing times came out the drf had slacked off for a long time..rt forced them to improve their product to compete..when I looked at the form before that it was the speed rating which was just how far off you were from the fastest time that was rin at that distance in the past 3 years I believe..then the average time off the track record for sprints and routes separated for the variant..primitive as that's greatly affected by how good the races were on that particular day..wasn't just average 86 speed rating but an 86-24 vs average 86-16..at least that's how I did it lol..point is there's a ton more (better) information if you look at the pp's now vs then..that's why I feel you can pick up pp's from anywhere and get a pretty good feel for what's up at that particular track..certainly if you have extra knowledge like you and harthebar that's even better

Think I have written about this but back in high school and before I trained, by friend and I figured out that if you look at those on Saturday, everything might be fair. But if you look at them on a weak mid week card, you could easily find far superior horses within those numbers. We did this mainly at Charlestown but sometimes at Md. tracks as well. Boy, there were plays to be made within that scenario .
Guess it was stuff like that that taught us that you could find an edge. We had success as 18-23 year olds doing that. Felt like we were stealing sometimes. Cool feeling. But yeah, they are very antiquated these days and the overall rating format has changed. I don't even look at them anymore because of that. Plenty else to feed off of.

Much more pertinent info today.

[Louisvillekid1]

I saw this write up and assume you are talking about this horse?

#2 Fast Pass 5/2, This is just a really cool horse for any real fan. this 7 year old was a 25k purchase that has earned over 260k. Kinda just plots along and really builds up his stride, because look how they finish. I mean its not really a crazy late kick, its more of just building up and shows heart. Warrior -eske horse. 41 11 11 6 lifetime, 12 4 3 3 @ GP and 18 4 6 3 at the distance. Drops in from a graded stake where ran 5th by 4 splitting the field, can really make up ground late. Then I scroll down I see the 3/8’s work, I never know what to make of the 3/8’s work, gotta ask STR about that, because I believe its a meaningless work as it tells me nothing, unless maybe want to be more forwardly placed. Rooting for this one, and will be using.





This horse is a total pro. I don't know if the trainer has done this before but my guess would be yes, in that it is not a fitness work at all. It's simply a way to blow the pipes out a few days before the race. And, it tells the horse that it is close to race time. This would not work with a younger horse but an old pro like this horse, it is a big positive. Why? Because if the horse was not fine going into the race at that age, he wouldn't be running him. But this horse is better than fine. He is either too sharp, and that will be if this 3/8's work is not normal, or the trainer wants him on his toes after maybe not being as sharp early in his last race. It's kind of hard without seeing the form but no matter the exact reason, there is no way it is anything but positive. I just can't see HOW positive.
Is there another work on the form that matches up time wise, like 3 days before the race ( a guess) ? And if so, did the horse show slightly more early position ( adjusting for the opening 1/4 time), and win? Or just miss?
These are things that will piece the story together and give you all the info you need.

Was the work something like 37 3/5ths? Again, just a guess but that type of work is perfect for an old timer. The horse will understand, because he is a pro, that it's race day in a couple of days. More signals will come by walking the day after the short work, and maybe just a light jog or easy gallop that day before. Then, he will walk only this morning telling this old warrior that it is game day. The feed will be lighter than normal for his lunch and the hay will be pulled. That classy old horse will be focused to the max by the time they put his bridle on .All this is a build up to the hopefully solid effort today.

Please let me know if you can see this pattern in the form from races past. I will try and look around for it as well.

But let's talk about the 3/8ths work in general. To better understand that type of work let me say this. It will only be a negative in one situation. That situation is when a horse has just been claimed, or, after running every 2-3 weeks in the past, the horse has 30-40 days between races and only shows a slowish 3/8ths work. That usually spells trouble. Why? Because the horse will have needed more to stay fit after that period of time but the trainer was probably leary of putting any more pressure than that on the horse. And while that theory, or educated guess as to the horses current physical ability can never be absolute, it is correct much more often than it is not. At that point, you look for fronts on, or a bug rider or change of rider from a top rider last time to a lesser rider this time. More possible negatives.

Try and watch the horse warm up. If they don't warm up much at all, another negative. But what would ice the decision is if you knew the warm up pattern from previous races. THAT, is where doing one track becomes a big edge. But I do understand that even with that, you can only see what the camera shows unless you are standing there.

So it's things like that, that gives a player a discernible edge over others which leads over to the discussion I see alot lately about the quote of "juice will bury you". That is correct if you bet 4 tracks and spend 3-4 minutes looking at each race. But it is dead wrong if you are focused on 1 track or two and put in the required time. If you do that, as I have said a thousand times, the races are beatable, even with the takeout. And it is because you know way more than the others you are competing against. But it takes a ton of time. It's not easy.

I rarely join into those type of discussions because the right or wrong depends on the player. There is no blanket answer that fits everybody. It totally depends on the level of understanding of the game, along with the amount of time one dedicates to each day. But enough of that.

If you can let me know about those couple of questions I would appreciate it.

Go get em Kid.

Excellent response, thanks again str

[str]

I'll ask a question

What is the point of a 3/8's work.

I have no clue, what to make of it...

Maybe because they want to be forwardly placed, maybe because they just don't want the horse to use any energy in the morning and still get a little workout.

It does nothing for me as a handicapper, unless like a horse who has 3 of them b2b2b, and they are just trying to get this one used to running early and be more forwardly placed, but even that's rare.

Ty

I have the form in front of me for this race . These 3/8ths workouts are all 4 days before the race.

July 27th - 3/8's work. Runs 4 days later on July 31 and wins easily.

Next time it happens is Dec. 28th- 3/8th work. Runs 4 days later and wins by 2 3/4's.

Same pattern for today. Worked 3/8ths 4 days ago. In today.

So it was 4 days not 3 as I guessed in the previous discussion but other than that this positive pattern is exactly what I was talking about.

The horse is sitting on a solid build up for today. He goes in as good as he can. But as you know, that doesn't mean he automatically wins.

He needs pace as he runs from off the pace. He should get some from the 1 horse. As you stated, Rivelli is very good 1st off the layoff. Last time off 9 months he won 1st time back. This time it's 6 months. Not much difference in training up or running well fresh IMO.

Yes, I see potential for other speed and the hope will be for some type of pressure on the 1 horse to help with that pace and to help soften up the 1 horse late.

So he wins right? I think he is the best horse. But while I look for positives and we have identified that, I also must see negatives if they show. Both the rider AND trainer have had a meet where they have finished 2nd and 3rd much more than they have won. That is hard to take on what looks like a 9-5 favorite or worse. That might be what holds me back from saying he wins, period.
But I do see this horse running very well today barring something unforeseen during the race. He should save ground early, move up inside unless the race gets weird, angle out turning for home, and run down the 1 horse. Sure seems to look that way.
I think it's like you said, a small betting opportunity but a must watch race if you appreciate honest hard knocking professional race horses like the 2 horse is. It's also nice to see him get reacquainted with his old rider. Another positive.

[JBEX]

Think I have written about this but back in high school and before I trained, by friend and I figured out that if you look at those on Saturday, everything might be fair. But if you look at them on a weak mid week card, you could easily find far superior horses within those numbers. We did this mainly at Charlestown but sometimes at Md. tracks as well. Boy, there were plays to be made within that scenario .
Guess it was stuff like that that taught us that you could find an edge. We had success as 18-23 year olds doing that. Felt like we were stealing sometimes. Cool feeling. But yeah, they are very antiquated these days and the overall rating format has changed. I don't even look at them anymore because of that. Plenty else to feed off of.

Much more pertinent info today.

yes you did write about that and that's a great angle back in those days..after all that's what most people did for final speed ratings (combine them)

[JBEX]

Things are fine here so far. Thank you for asking.
Back then, several things came into play. You had 3 tracks, Laurel, Bowie, and Pimlico. (Not counting Timonium or Marlboro). They were 3 completely different surfaces. Long story short, Laurel had a lot of clay and was run during the fall. Once it got wet, it stayed wet because at the time it was built very close to the water table. Clay and wet equal 3.4's in 1:12 for the feature race and 1:15 or 16 or even worse for the cheap maidens.

Bowie was run in the summer and winter and back then they ran on a frozen track ( I mean seriously frozen. Zero cushion. Ice marks where the horses toe grabs hit.) Mid level claimers were running 1:08 and change. They only had a grade 2 in the winter and it was the Barbara Fritchie for Fillies and Mares going 7/8ths.

Pimlico ran in the spring and was on top of a hill. If you got the wind just right and it rarely had enough cushion back then no matter the elements, They could run 1:09 which was incredible because of the lack of runup.

To sort all this out, the Defrancis might have been a grade 1 for a year or two. I thought it was. At 6F. and this was early July, yes, they ran 8 and maybe some change.
The General George was always run on Washington's Birthday at Bowie in February. That race was run around 1:21 and change or 1:22 and change each year. Kind of depended on the cold at the time.
But the track record was 1:21 held from 1967 by a local allowance horse who ran on Feb. 25th 1967. I was only a kid but you can bet they could have played hockey on the track that day.
The 3/4's record was 1:08 flat held by a 10k claimer. That was Jan. of 1976. Was an asst. trainer then.

So to get to your exact question, all things being equal as best I can, a Grade 1 6F. race would have been just about 1:08 and probably 2 or 3 fifths. So lets say 1:08 3/5ths. The bottom claimer back in the 80's was still Maiden 5k I think. But the bottom is the bottom so no real difference in quality of horse from a bottom of Maiden 7500. The all things being equal number for those would have been about 1:13 3/5ths.

They did not run N/W claiming races at all until I am guessing around mid 80's. Maybe late 80's. Just after most larger tracks started doing it because of the horse crunch to fill races do to too many tracks running year round.

Back in the day, no such thing as n/w of anything except big time allowance races like n/w of a race in 6 months other than maiden, claiming, or starter races. What that did was allow a monster like Christopher R., Daves Friend, North Sea, Jameela, etc. to get a layup in for their 1st race back in the spring.

All the n/w of stuff claimers only happened out of necessity to keep horses on the grounds and fill cards. Those horses usually went to Charlestown or Penn. Nat. to win 2 or 3 more back in the day. It was kind of rare to be able to win a bottom maiden race and then be able to win an open 5k claimer. Too many hard knockers were around. It did happen, but like I said, it was rare.

Your memories are indeed accurate. NY was the same in that it was open claimers always. No N/W stuff, except for what I spoke to in big money allowance races. Never claimers. All the tracks changed around the same time period to the beaten stuff.

missed this str..so I was close with the times..can see how those allowance races with the n/w 6 months condition must have drawn some heavy hitters..one of those crazy things is it always sticks in my head that jameela was the dam of gulch who was a solid runner and sire for a long time (by mr prospector)..so guess she could really motor by what your saying ?

[mrginandtonic]

Good day Sir STR, just want to say thank you for the time that you put in for all of us. Your work is much appreciated. Haven’t been on here as much as I want to and I just want to wish you and family well. Stay safe.

[JBEX]

hey str

if you can take an early peek at the florida derby I find it interesting that ralph nicks, a solid trainer, would enter #2 shivaree in the race.. seems like a very talented sprinter and to try a route with him vs this level of competition seems kind of ambitious.. . realize he did once before as a 2yo but not much of an effort (although not horrible).. maybe just as simple as ehh we're here let's take a shot but have to think there's something he sees in him.. possibly the owner/breeder, who have been at it for quite a long time in florida, are forcing his hand

[str]

Good day Sir STR, just want to say thank you for the time that you put in for all of us. Your work is much appreciated. Haven’t been on here as much as I want to and I just want to wish you and family well. Stay safe.

It's my pleasure MrGandT.

I hope you and your family stay safe as well.

All the best.

[str]

hey str

if you can take an early peek at the florida derby I find it interesting that ralph nicks, a solid trainer, would enter #2 shivaree in the race.. seems like a very talented sprinter and to try a route with him vs this level of competition seems kind of ambitious.. . realize he did once before as a 2yo but not much of an effort (although not horrible).. maybe just as simple as ehh we're here let's take a shot but have to think there's something he sees in him.. possibly the owner/breeder, who have been at it for quite a long time in florida, are forcing his hand

Just saw it. Thank you for the link.
I think you are seeing it well. Seems to me that the owner/ breeder is probably pushing for it. Maybe not, but odds are that's it. And while normally the trainer might be irritated about that, this is a really odd year. With the Triple Crown races now in September and October there is a ton of time to fully prepare. This is like a December race for May when you think about it. And with the strong emphasis on 2 turns this time of year anyway, there are probably not too many opportunities for a 3 year old sprinter right now. So the risk reward thing works in this case.
The trainer is going blinkers off, no doubt to see if the horse can relax and find a gear and sustain at this distance. I guess you could make the case that he was only beaten a length and a quarter when he did try long so I guess I get it.
If he gets clobbered, that answers all questions and he can get back to normal. And in doing so will lose little in the way of opportunities probably.
So for the horses sake, let's hope he either runs real well or real bad. Running 5th or 6th by 7 or 8 lengths will not put out the Derby fever problem.

What gets lost in all this is the risk of the horses mental as well as physical. It gets put on the back burner of thinking this time of year. It is taken for granted. This lack of thought is doubtful for the trainer but absolutely for the owner. Some horses can brush this off mentally. But others can be ruined by it. Just depends on the horse. Like people, they are not all the same mentally. That was always my biggest fear when running one in a spot that was probably way over their head both level of competition and distance of ground wise. But, you never know. Guess there is no exact answer. I suppose that is why we see it happen every year. Sometimes it can work. Most times not. Nobody knows for sure.

[JBEX]

Just saw it. Thank you for the link.
I think you are seeing it well. Seems to me that the owner/ breeder is probably pushing for it. Maybe not, but odds are that's it. And while normally the trainer might be irritated about that, this is a really odd year. With the Triple Crown races now in September and October there is a ton of time to fully prepare. This is like a December race for May when you think about it. And with the strong emphasis on 2 turns this time of year anyway, there are probably not too many opportunities for a 3 year old sprinter right now. So the risk reward thing works in this case.
The trainer is going blinkers off, no doubt to see if the horse can relax and find a gear and sustain at this distance. I guess you could make the case that he was only beaten a length and a quarter when he did try long so I guess I get it.
If he gets clobbered, that answers all questions and he can get back to normal. And in doing so will lose little in the way of opportunities probably.
So for the horses sake, let's hope he either runs real well or real bad. Running 5th or 6th by 7 or 8 lengths will not put out the Derby fever problem.

What gets lost in all this is the risk of the horses mental as well as physical. It gets put on the back burner of thinking this time of year. It is taken for granted. This lack of thought is doubtful for the trainer but absolutely for the owner. Some horses can brush this off mentally. But others can be ruined by it. Just depends on the horse. Like people, they are not all the same mentally. That was always my biggest fear when running one in a spot that was probably way over their head both level of competition and distance of ground wise. But, you never know. Guess there is no exact answer. I suppose that is why we see it happen every year. Sometimes it can work. Most times not. Nobody knows for sure.

no problem str.. yeah that was my thought also.. what if this throws him off his normal game on the return but as you said it's one of the risks involved.. also the possible lack of good spots for 3yo sprinters also makes sense.. know I've seen the name "jacks or better stable" as owner/breeders in florida for a long while (at least it seems so).. have a hunch they're pushing for this more than the trainer wants to try but it's all speculation.. we'll see


how about barclay tagg going for another one with sackatoga stable (funny cide).. oh yeah no derby 1st saturday may. that horse looks like a killer but of course won't be any value in here.. I love his versatility.. maiden breaker first out saratoga.. champagne belmont @1 turn mile.. two turns first time slop at churchill lost but big effort.. pace was extremely slow that race and maybe compromised by that (wasn't too far off though).. then big figure win the holy bull last out at his 4th different venue.. it's a shame especially for a guy like barclay tagg who's in the late stages of his career, that all this crap has to be going on.. sure he feels that way too with a horse with this much talent.. understand it'll hopefully go in september but just not the same as winning when it's supposed to be run


sending you something else later on relative to that link

[harthebar]

Why is nobody posting in this thread ?

Best thread on the site

best thread on all of sbr threads the thread of all threads should be called str talks not players talk ha ha

[harthebar]

[harthebar]

str did you ever watch this movie, trying to pass it on to brother horse men.....all time best horse racing movie in my opinion

[Easy-Rider 66]

Hey STR: when you get a chance no rush. can you pull up the pp's for GP R1 3/26 You can use the sire Maibu Moon. Interested in the 9 Kayseri, in the comment section BRIS states suspicious drop in class. Can you elaborate on that if you agree. and JBEX I saw you picked that horse today. if you have any thoughts on that chime in. Thx guys.

[str]

str did you ever watch this movie, trying to pass it on to brother horse men.....all time best horse racing movie in my opinion

Not sure if I have but will definitely check it out.

Thanks Har !

[JBEX]

Hey STR: when you get a chance no rush. can you pull up the pp's for GP R1 3/26 You can use the sire Maibu Moon. Interested in the 9 Kayseri, in the comment section BRIS states suspicious drop in class. Can you elaborate on that if you agree. and JBEX I saw you picked that horse today. if you have any thoughts on that chime in. Thx guys.

winners share about 13k ..2nd about 4k.... sale for 16k .. claimed for 25 ..not saying something couldn't be amiss but its not the worst drop I've ever seen..dibona having great meet and solid off the claim and 3rd off the layoff

[str]

Hey STR: when you get a chance no rush. can you pull up the pp's for GP R1 3/26 You can use the sire Maibu Moon. Interested in the 9 Kayseri, in the comment section BRIS states suspicious drop in class. Can you elaborate on that if you agree. and JBEX I saw you picked that horse today. if you have any thoughts on that chime in. Thx guys.

What I see is a horse that Casse, the previous trainer before it was claimed last time, never really protected the horse after it's first two races. He dropped for a tag after the first two efforts were not bed. Then dropped again, but that could have been the difference in quality of horse at different meets. I do not know that well enough to have a gauge on it. But, my point is, he never felt like he was wanting to keep the horse long term after 2 starts. He managed it to make money right away and if it gets claimed, so be it. Now that could be because he has nicer horses and wants the stall if it cannot perform at a high level, but again, I don't follow Casse well enough to know him like I would if I was putting in the time.
So it gets claimed, and the new trainer gets the horse out of jail, and lays her in. I have no, problem with that especially seeing that this trainer is winning at 24% telling me, it's about the wins, not the development or hope to take his time and maybe improve. Looks like he is trying to run horses in winning spots and play the claiming game the right way.

With maidens, I don't consider this move as suspicious. He wants to win. It would be suspicious IMO if the horse won for 12k open and was back in for 10k open.

I think that is one of the problems with all the comments you get these days. Those comments are only as sharp as the person writing them. They probably go by one set of rules that fits all drops and that is dead wrong. You need to know the trainer and what makes them tick.

I know I must sound like a broken record with pushing to know the trainers, jocks, etc. but I have to be honest. It is what I knew and my sole focus was on one circuit. Soi if I saw this done by a trainer that does it all the time, is it suspicious? no way. But a protective small outfit that never drops? Yes, it is suspicious. See what I mean ? It depends on the trainer and their tendencies. I have always leaned hard on that when handicapping. But I am not putting in the time needed to know whats what currently.

Kind of like today. I played in that contest thing but only used the program. No form. Throwing darts at blks. on horses or 1st time gelded or whatever.

So to this horse, it sure seems like the trainer is a lets win trainer and if so, he is doing exactly what I would be doing. He probably did not expect to have to try and beat Pletcher dropping from the clouds but that horse obviously can't run to it's expectations and he is wanting to win and off that horse no doubt.

[str]

Just saw the race was run while I was typing.

Sorry about that.

[Easy-Rider 66]

OK thx STR no worries. Yeah I do not know trainer tendencies that well like LKID and JBEX, Hart and Mr.G&T, but see your point on knowing what's the usual for a specific barn. Appreciate the run down I now have a better understanding.

[JBEX]

about a mechanical engineer trying to make racetrack surfaces safer..got about halfway through but it's a little much for me with all the science..you know the fundamentals of this so thought you might find it interesting

https://www.wired.com/story/super-optimized-dirt-that-helps-keep-racehorses-safe/

[str]

about a mechanical engineer trying to make racetrack surfaces safer..got about halfway through but it's a little much for me with all the science..you know the fundamentals of this so thought you might find it interesting


https://www.wired.com/story/super-op...cehorses-safe/

Just read it. Did skip over the dramatic parts though. Sounds like real progress in that area. Wonder why they didn't use copper nails on the probe if they were worried about rust on wet surfaces? Maybe they can't read through copper? I don't know.
Anyway, a good read and great to know that they will address the surface more closely.

I never did understand the crazy fast tracks in Calif. Always turned me off of the product but the people out there swear by it. And they wonder why Cal. horses have chronic bad feet? Maybe not as much anymore. Guess it was the hype factor? If so, incredible that they would look past safety for hype. But it is all about the Benjamins I guess. Can you tell I am from the East Coast? Lol.
That rivalry is embedded I guess but no doubt they have the money and the superior horses there almost every year lately.

Thanks JBEX.

[pimike]

Great thread

Thanks guys!

[JBEX]

Just read it. Did skip over the dramatic parts though. Sounds like real progress in that area. Wonder why they didn't use copper nails on the probe if they were worried about rust on wet surfaces? Maybe they can't read through copper? I don't know.
Anyway, a good read and great to know that they will address the surface more closely.

I never did understand the crazy fast tracks in Calif. Always turned me off of the product but the people out there swear by it. And they wonder why Cal. horses have chronic bad feet? Maybe not as much anymore. Guess it was the hype factor? If so, incredible that they would look past safety for hype. But it is all about the Benjamins I guess. Can you tell I am from the East Coast? Lol.
That rivalry is embedded I guess but no doubt they have the money and the superior horses there almost every year lately.

Thanks JBEX.

no problem str

was a lot more fun in the older days when we couldn't see the cal horses and there was a rooting interest on both coasts leading up to the derby.. absolutely agree to put the horses welfare in jeopardy just for some fast times is terrible


saw something else interesting at tampa bay today.. a horse who was eligible for clm 5000n1y(6 months) won at 5000n2y by 4 lengths.. then last race ran in that condition again and lost by a half length.. today running in open clm6250.. that's either foolish or showing a lot of confidence in the horse wouldn't you say.. understand it does protect the horse a bit more but doesn't that seem to be less important than having another shot at the 5000n2y's?

[JBEX]

winners share this race a tad under 7k and guessing not much less for a clm 5k.. I guess if you do the math and figure he could at least finish 2nd here it's not the worst move

[str]

no problem str

was a lot more fun in the older days when we couldn't see the cal horses and there was a rooting interest on both coasts leading up to the derby.. absolutely agree to put the horses welfare in jeopardy just for some fast times is terrible


saw something else interesting at tampa bay today.. a horse who was eligible for clm 5000n1y(6 months) won at 5000n2y by 4 lengths.. then last race ran in that condition again and lost by a half length.. today running in open clm6250.. that's either foolish or showing a lot of confidence in the horse wouldn't you say.. understand it does protect the horse a bit more but doesn't that seem to be less important than having another shot at the 5000n2y's?

Don't know the situation here but it seems you are reading the condition book like a trainer putting win 1st and keep the horse long term second and the trainer is doing the opposite.
I like your version.

[str]

winners share this race a tad under 7k and guessing not much less for a clm 5k.. I guess if you do the math and figure he could at least finish 2nd here it's not the worst move

That's true but nobody ever wrote an article or gave me horses because I finished second. It's a mind set of win or protect. Either one is hard to let go of once you start doing it.

[str]

Great thread

Thanks guys!

Thanks pimike.

Glad you checked it out.

I love "sports is money".

YES IT IS !

[JBEX]

That's true but nobody ever wrote an article or gave me horses because I finished second. It's a mind set of win or protect. Either one is hard to let go of once you start doing it.

oh yes I understand that..i'my just saying if he got taken they got that extra 1250 plus another 2k purse money..bit of a consolation prize ..and if he's not claimed in that scenario they could go back to the 5k claimer..definitely some positive's in this situation but as you said , rather wait for the 5k claimer

[JBEX]

and he could be out and they lose him..that's not good

[str]

oh yes I understand that..i'my just saying if he got taken they got that extra 1250 plus another 2k purse money..bit of a consolation prize ..and if he's not claimed in that scenario they could go back to the 5k claimer..definitely some positive's in this situation but as you said , rather wait for the 5k claimer

Hate to come off too judgemental. Thats unfair of me.You never know. The trainer could have been hustled into the race by the racing office to make it go. That happens in shorter fields often. Not sure if that field is small or not. Guess nothing is perfect and you never know the situation. For me to assume leads to incorrect thoughts so I might be way off here.
The trainer could also have another horse that fits the 5k perfectly and felt they needed to run this horse for 6250 once and see what happens. Spotting horses can look strange sometimes . Or maybe the 5k didn't fill and they want to run the horse. Could be a ton of things.

[JBEX]

Hate to come off too judgemental. Thats unfair of me.You never know. The trainer could have been hustled into the race by the racing office to make it go. That happens in shorter fields often. Not sure if that field is small or not. Guess nothing is perfect and you never know the situation. For me to assume leads to incorrect thoughts so I might be way off here.
The trainer could also have another horse that fits the 5k perfectly and felt they needed to run this horse for 6250 once and see what happens. Spotting horses can look strange sometimes . Or maybe the 5k didn't fill and they want to run the horse. Could be a ton of things.

I see ..it's all speculative..but in general the open 6250's will be a signficantly tougher bunch ?