impressions from a rookie

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  • Dark Horse
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 12-14-05
    • 13764

    #1
    impressions from a rookie
    Horse racing is as over-analyzed a field as you will find. The main reason I love the literature is that it is loaded with good ideas that can be translated to other sports. And then there is the strange idea that I might, somehow, be able to transfer my understanding of other sports to the sport of kings.

    So how does a rookie go about attacking this field? The first priority for me was simplification. Too many people know too much about this field. If I was to find any edge I needed an immediate and powerful filter. I lucked out. All thoroughbreds are out!

    What?!

    No thoroughbreds. Because their races aren't about pure speed. Because a lot of strategy gets mixed in. And because I may be able to predict some strategy for a football or basketball game, but none whatsoever for a three year old horse based on a few past performances.

    The races I'm interested in are very short bursts of speed: quarter horse races. These babies fly! And it just so happens that my local track has a lot of them. Did I mention that quarter horse past performances show the exact time, to 1000th of a second, run by each horse? Thoroughbred racing forms only give the time for the winner, and how many lengths behind the winner each horse finished. Sweeten the pot some more, baby.

    I followed the simple advice from what I had read. Calculate speed numbers, and make sure that the odds for the race will make a bet profitable. One sink hole in horse racing is that many experts can pick winners, but end up losing, because they play the wrong odds. In this area the tote board can present some challenges, because it lights up like a pinball machine in the minutes before the race. One of my horses started out 17-1, then dropped to 6-1, before locking in at 10-1.

    Doing the numbers, I had gotten the right kind of separation for the first race. Three horses were clearly faster than the rest of the field, and they did not include the favorite! I bet an exacta box 5-6-7.

    From the betting window I stepped outside for a first impression of my home track. Whoa! Beautiful setting in a valley with mountains in the back. Everything sharp and clean. Sunny with scattered clouds. Fast track and wind light. Lot of Mexicans.

    The first race is just 250 yards. And almost turned into a fiasco. Two horses, while getting in the gate, threw off their jockeys and went off on their own private race. In the wrong direction! Halfway across the track! Plenty of laughter in the stands. But I was not amused. Number 7 was one of the two. The other horse ended up scratching, so I was lucky to still have my horse, but would 7 have enough energy?

    The buildup to the race is so feverish that the start is almost anti-climatic. For a second, the world turns to slow motion. No sound. Then all hell breaks loose. The favorite #9 burst out of the gate for the early lead. Number 7 was closing in, and was that number 5 with a late burst at the end? Took all of 13 seconds. JJ couldn't f*ck that fast. Photo finish!

    Official result: 5-7-9. My exacta hit! 5 was 4 to 1 and 7 was 10 to 1, so payout was pretty good.

    An hour later I bet one more race, which included a couple of horses in their first start. No past performances, so no speed numbers. Needless to say, one of the first time starters destroyed the field. Oh well, beginner's luck...

    I was out of there faster than Lebron James after a playoff elimination. Good first day. The summer experiment continues. Already can't wait to be ... back at the track! (music kicks in)
  • Dark Horse
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 12-14-05
    • 13764

    #2
    Why horses? Don't I have enough on my plate with stocks, NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB? The answer is simple: the payouts! You parlay two horses, and you're not getting x2.6 for two sports teams. You may get x100 or better...

    For a number of years I circled the wagons. I had no idea where to even begin to crack this field. A simple racing form looked like hieroglyphics. My only direct experience came from a Native American friend, who plunked me on a horse without a saddle and told me to instruct the horse to go left or right, faster or slower, with my thoughts! This horse, believe it or not, obeyed! But I had little doubt that all those fast f*ckers on the track couldn't care less about what I was thinking. And how could I even dream to catch up to experts who had been at it for thirty years, and do so without investing too much of my time?

    There's one crazy thing about horse bettors that sets them apart from your typical sports bettor: they share everything! Andrew Beyer could have been a billionaire if he had kept his numbers to himself. But instead he decided to publish a book about his approach. Wise or not, this has produced some fantastic literature. May it never be matched by the rest of sports betting books.

    From just a little reading I've learned that horse betting is about two things: picking winners, or horses in the money. And at least as important: recognizing profitable odds, quickly (the best way is to calculate your own line and bet overlays, but I'm a long way from doing that.). No value, no bet. You're not going to make money if you bet the huge favorites or the huge outsiders, but in between those two extremes there's a pretty interesting piece of real estate.

    I now know, for a fact, that horses can be beaten. How do I know that? Because of three things:
    1) most people don't calculate their own speed numbers;
    2) most people don't know how to read the tote board (odds) efficiently;
    3) most people don't bring a personal edge; such as, for instance, an ability to cross off favorites.

    As to the last point. Why is it important to have a good feel if a favorite will finish in the money or not? Because, if he has a bad day, that improves the odds tremendously for bets that exclude him. (compare to ability to pick big underdog). It's about the odds first. The horses come second. The odds determine the payout.

    Have I mastered any of the above? No. Not even close. But I have an understanding of what it is that I want to learn. And how it all gels into a method. That's a big step forward from not understanding a thing about horses. Now all I have to do is learn it. Right...

    I have not found anything yet on bet sizing in horse racing. Man, it's fun to be a rookie.
    Comment
    • Dark Horse
      SBR Posting Legend
      • 12-14-05
      • 13764

      #3
      Got my book on money management/bet sizing, and it's a gem. Money Secrets at the Racetrack. Will keep me busy for a while.

      Meanwhile, the horse betting is going pretty good. Especially win/place/show bets. Rookie mistakes have involved having a good read on all the horses, except the favorite, and throw him out too easily. It takes me about an hour to analyze a race. That's very long, and some of this can be computerized, but I spend the time because it's the only way to learn the nuts and bolts.

      I'm practicing mentally to transfer the odds on the tote board quickly to percentages. For example 9-2. That's 18.18%. How is this done? Take the two numbers (9 and 2) and divide 100 by their total (11). Then you multiply that number (9.09) by the number on the right (i.e if odds are 9-2, the number on the right is 2). That will give you the percentage.

      The tote board adds up to more than 100%, because it includes the takeout. So the key is to calculate your edge for the race upfront, and then determine if there is value in a bet right before the race. The best way to do so is to calculate a line for each horse (with all lines adding up to exactly 100%); the next best way is to assign 80% to the three or four contenders and use percentage templates that show if you have an edge or not. I picked up these templates from another book.

      Question for anybody that may know. There's legal betting around the country on the races around the country, and all that money enters into the pool and payouts (as well as the final odds). But I'm wondering if the money bet at offshore books is also included. The offshore book does use the final odds for payouts, but does the money bet offshore affect the odds, or is that money off to the side?
      Comment
      • cobra_king
        SBR MVP
        • 08-07-06
        • 2491

        #4
        Welcome DH to this wonderful crazy world of ours. I've been betting these things professionally for 18 years now. And I readily admit that i'm still learning as we go. The dynamics of the game keep changing, both on the track and on the tote board and if you aren't learning and adapting you will get left behind the same way that trainers of yesteryear get left behind when training techniques change. Right now i'm pretty much 100% focused on Harness Racing, though my earlier years were a mixture of Thoroughbreds and Standardbreds. I've also spent alot more time lately investing in the ownership side of the game as well.

        As for your question about offshore books, i don't know for certain, but from all the feedback i've had, and experiences i have had i would venture to say that the books hold this money and do not lay it off.....ESPECIALLY if you are dealing with smaller venues. Pinnacle, back when they did take horse action, actually would limit players they felt were capable of beating them. Now granted i would only bet harness so that's what i am speaking to, and maybe they don't treat the major markets the same way, but trust me, this was the case. I wouldn't believe that limiting would be the case if they were not exposing themselves in some way.

        Good luck with your venture into the horses. Quarter horses are the one area i never went into!
        Comment
        • Dark Horse
          SBR Posting Legend
          • 12-14-05
          • 13764

          #5
          Thanks for the welcome and feedback, cobra king. That's interesting about offshore books. Betting on horses without affecting the odds... More food for thought.
          Comment
          • Dark Horse
            SBR Posting Legend
            • 12-14-05
            • 13764

            #6
            This almost feels too easy. I just bet a horse (15-1) to show. Came in 2nd and still paid 6x my wager. Based on a speed number and a form evaluation. In sports betting that would have to be a +500 dog. Here the horse just has to finish 3rd...

            Lost the exacta box 1-5-9; came in as 3-9-5. Gotta stay away from those.

            Too slow to finish calculations for the next race. It still takes me an hour to prepare for a race. Oh well, one race a day keeps the doctor away.
            Comment
            • thezbar
              SBR Hall of Famer
              • 08-29-06
              • 6422

              #7
              Most if all off shore stores will hold the action and it will not effect the track odds. However they place limits especially on the exotic wager payoffs. The only edge I see in using on off shore is in the straight win place or show pools at a track that doesn't have a big handle. A large on track bet in the minor places will lower any edge you think you have. Of course the books know that also. Some bar wagers that have a minus pool thus preventing bridgejumping
              Comment
              • Wayfarer
                SBR High Roller
                • 01-06-09
                • 134

                #8
                Originally posted by Dark Horse
                This almost feels too easy. I just bet a horse (15-1) to show. Came in 2nd and still paid 6x my wager. Based on a speed number and a form evaluation. In sports betting that would have to be a +500 dog. Here the horse just has to finish 3rd...

                Lost the exacta box 1-5-9; came in as 3-9-5. Gotta stay away from those.

                Too slow to finish calculations for the next race. It still takes me an hour to prepare for a race. Oh well, one race a day keeps the doctor away.
                Did the horses that were more heavily bet in the show pool miss the board? What I don't like about betting to place or show is that you can never be assured of what your return will be because it is dependant on who else finishes in the top 2 or 3. It can make it much harder to determine if you are making a a profitable bet.
                Comment
                • Dark Horse
                  SBR Posting Legend
                  • 12-14-05
                  • 13764

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Wayfarer
                  Did the horses that were more heavily bet in the show pool miss the board? What I don't like about betting to place or show is that you can never be assured of what your return will be because it is dependant on who else finishes in the top 2 or 3. It can make it much harder to determine if you are making a a profitable bet.
                  The morning lines for the top three finishers were: 15-1, 15-1, and 7-2.

                  To me the horse that finished second was one of the top horses, but I couldn't quite bet him to win. I just figure that the longer shots have a bigger chance of finishing in the money and paying well than winning the race, so I look for those horses. That does mean that some of the favorites should underperform (in my estimation), but the size of the pool is still a mystery to me. I was wondering if, at smaller tracks, there is more money in the pool during weekends than on weekdays.
                  Comment
                  • Dark Horse
                    SBR Posting Legend
                    • 12-14-05
                    • 13764

                    #10
                    Originally posted by thezbar
                    Most if all off shore stores will hold the action and it will not effect the track odds. However they place limits especially on the exotic wager payoffs. The only edge I see in using on off shore is in the straight win place or show pools at a track that doesn't have a big handle. A large on track bet in the minor places will lower any edge you think you have. Of course the books know that also. Some bar wagers that have a minus pool thus preventing bridgejumping
                    Thanks. Good info. I love this offshore advantage.
                    Comment
                    • Wayfarer
                      SBR High Roller
                      • 01-06-09
                      • 134

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Dark Horse
                      The morning lines for the top three finishers were: 15-1, 15-1, and 7-2.

                      To me the horse that finished second was one of the top horses, but I couldn't quite bet him to win. I just figure that the longer shots have a bigger chance of finishing in the money and paying well than winning the race, so I look for those horses. That does mean that some of the favorites should underperform (in my estimation), but the size of the pool is still a mystery to me. I was wondering if, at smaller tracks, there is more money in the pool during weekends than on weekdays.
                      So the morning line of the horse was 15-1? What odds did the horse actually go off at? I would never, ever use morning lines as a factor when I handicapp a race because at the end of the day they mean absolutely nothing.

                      Yes pool sizes can vary alot. You should have no problem finding the sizes of all the pools either on the tote board at the track or using an online tote board.
                      Comment
                      • Dark Horse
                        SBR Posting Legend
                        • 12-14-05
                        • 13764

                        #12
                        Morning line for my horse was 15-1, but went off at 33-1... That would explain. lol

                        For horse racing I haven't really tried to find my way around the internet yet. I guess the time has come.
                        Comment
                        • Dark Horse
                          SBR Posting Legend
                          • 12-14-05
                          • 13764

                          #13
                          Thanks for the online tote board advice. Was helpful today. Although this time my wager (to place) only paid -125, in sports betting value, and I'm scratching my head about whether the real value was with the exacta or not.

                          The exacta, even with my top two as the public's 2nd and 3rd (so with the favorite tossed out), didn't include odds that I liked. My top two picks came in 1 and 2, but I passed. My 'place horse' came in 2nd and I ended up winning that bet, but I don't know what the correct decision making process was in terms of value.

                          Question. Is there a horse calculator out there where you can input odds (personal and track) and pool size to see which bet has the best value?
                          Comment
                          • Wayfarer
                            SBR High Roller
                            • 01-06-09
                            • 134

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Dark Horse
                            Question. Is there a horse calculator out there where you can input odds (personal and track) and pool size to see which bet has the best value?
                            Not that I am aware of. Like I said before you can never get actual place or show payouts until you know which 3 horses come in the top 2 or 3 so I don't think you could even make an accurate prediction if you wanted to include these wagers. Before I make an exacta bet I do always look at the probables part of the tote board to determine what the exacta bet would pay.
                            Comment
                            • Dark Horse
                              SBR Posting Legend
                              • 12-14-05
                              • 13764

                              #15
                              This tote board business can get pretty complicated. Reading it fast, and at the right time...

                              Handicapped one race, and one of my picks had gone from 8-1 to 40-1. So I bet him to show. But a little later he went off as the favorite at 2-1. No value, and I would have passed. Of course the horse, in the money in 9 of its last 12 races, didn't even show. Last time I bet early.
                              Comment
                              • Dark Horse
                                SBR Posting Legend
                                • 12-14-05
                                • 13764

                                #16
                                Is the betting public sharper on weekdays than weekends?
                                Comment
                                • Wayfarer
                                  SBR High Roller
                                  • 01-06-09
                                  • 134

                                  #17
                                  It sounds to me like you are betting at a small track with relatively small pools?
                                  Betting early is a mistake I used to often make when I was unable to be near a computer or at the track for a race. I will almost never place a bet until 1-2 mtp unless there is a horse I really like, I am fairly certain that I will get a price I am happy with and cannot be at the computer for whatever reason. Otherwise I just pass.

                                  As for variations in the sharpness of the betting public I cannot really make a well informed comment. I think overall the betting public is fairly well informed but follow similair handicapping practices and therefore all tend to like the same horse(s) and this results in square prices. It doesn't mean the reasons the public likes the horses they do are invalid, the fact that all of the available information makes them easy to spot just makes betting them not profitable. Personally I think variations occur more race to race based on how the commonly used information may mislead the majority of gamblers towards a horse while ignoring several key contendors that can be indentified using less widely used handicapping practices.

                                  If I had to guess though I don't think you would see much of a difference from weekdays to weekends, with the internet the smart money is able to bet regardless of the time or day and the increased square money that may enter the pools on the weekends from recreational horseplayers wouldn't make much of a difference because of the relatively small wager sizes. The only exceptions to this would be for the big races where the amount of square money certainly outweights the sharp. However if you are betting at a small track with small pools it would take considerably less money to affect the tote board so that could change everything. I have no experiance playing small tracks. So I guess I can't really answer you question at all and everything I did say could be completely wrong lol, still figuring out many aspects of this game myself.
                                  Comment
                                  • Dark Horse
                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                    • 12-14-05
                                    • 13764

                                    #18
                                    Thanks for sharing, Wayfarer.

                                    I bet at Yavapai, a beautiful place, but for that last bet I was at the computer, watching the tote board. I didn't realize that a horse could jump from 8 to 41, all the way back to 2-1, and thought my bet was 'safe' when it went that high.

                                    Just spend an hour capping a race for tomorrow, only to realize that there probably is no value and I have to pass. What a waste. lol
                                    Comment
                                    • Wayfarer
                                      SBR High Roller
                                      • 01-06-09
                                      • 134

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Dark Horse
                                      Thanks for sharing, Wayfarer.

                                      I bet at Yavapai, a beautiful place, but for that last bet I was at the computer, watching the tote board. I didn't realize that a horse could jump from 8 to 41, all the way back to 2-1, and thought my bet was 'safe' when it went that high.

                                      Just spend an hour capping a race for tomorrow, only to realize that there probably is no value and I have to pass. What a waste. lol
                                      You will certainly see some significant fluctuations at Yavapai with the small pools there. Even with the much larger pools at the track I play most (Woodbine) I often see any and all value sucked out of the horse I am about to play as the price just drops like a stone in the final few minutes.

                                      I wouldn't be to quick to assume that your hour was a waste. You're probably right but thankfully the betting public often gets it wrong and I can find value where if you had asked me the night before I wouldn't have been able to imagine getting that price.

                                      Best of luck Dark Horse
                                      Comment
                                      • Dark Horse
                                        SBR Posting Legend
                                        • 12-14-05
                                        • 13764

                                        #20
                                        I have a question about what basically amounts to a fair. Racing at this track only happens once a year, during the 4th of July weekend. I read somewhere that you can make a killing at these events, because most people there never capped a race in their life. (I'm not sure if that article is from before the internet).

                                        The only problem, as I'm looking at the card, is that the horses suck. It's kind of hard to pick a winner from a pack of horses that have a very hard time showing.
                                        Comment
                                        • Wayfarer
                                          SBR High Roller
                                          • 01-06-09
                                          • 134

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Dark Horse
                                          I have a question about what basically amounts to a fair. Racing at this track only happens once a year, during the 4th of July weekend. I read somewhere that you can make a killing at these events, because most people there never capped a race in their life. (I'm not sure if that article is from before the internet).

                                          The only problem, as I'm looking at the card, is that the horses suck. It's kind of hard to pick a winner from a pack of horses that have a very hard time showing.
                                          Hard indeed. I never bet on races that involve such horses.
                                          Comment
                                          • MadTiger
                                            SBR MVP
                                            • 04-19-09
                                            • 2724

                                            #22
                                            Dog food/glue factory race. If you have even the slightest thought that this is the situation, save your money for another race. You made one or more units by NOT chasing.

                                            Keep it movin'.
                                            Comment
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