UFC 128- Jon Bones Jones vs. Mauricio Shogun Rua

[Ranx777]

I am not comparing the two, other than the fact that their careers were made in Pride. in the UFC Shogun has beat Marc Coleman, Chuck Liddell and Machida. And I bet on him as a dog vs Liddell and both matchups vs Machida. But there are people on here that think Shogun will use his sweeps to get the best of Jones on the ground. Well where did everyone see those happen over and over again? In Pride. Unless you have a bias towards Pride, which a lot of uninformed MMA fans do, than you would know Shogun won't win this fight. The Shogun mystique created in Pride does not apply to this fight. Which is exactly why I said those people who think Shogun will win this fight obviously are putting way too much stock in performances vs Pride fighters, just as millions of people do when they look at Fedor.

Just as it didn't to me when I bet Antonio Silva to beat Fedor.

Bones Jones will beat Shogun, and if you think otherwise, than you don't know MMA. I don't need to post my ticket, but I will be in Vegas betting on the fight, and that will be the fight I am loading up on.

[Ranx777]

Ttrace, you must be a Fedor fan huh?

[youngbutgood]

I am not comparing the two, other than the fact that their careers were made in Pride. in the UFC Shogun has beat Marc Coleman, Chuck Liddell and Machida. And I bet on him as a dog vs Liddell and both matchups vs Machida. But there are people on here that think Shogun will use his sweeps to get the best of Jones on the ground. Well where did everyone see those happen over and over again? In Pride. Unless you have a bias towards Pride, which a lot of uninformed MMA fans do, than you would know Shogun won't win this fight. The Shogun mystique created in Pride does not apply to this fight. Which is exactly why I said those people who think Shogun will win this fight obviously are putting way too much stock in performances vs Pride fighters, just as millions of people do when they look at Fedor.

Just as it didn't to me when I bet Antonio Silva to beat Fedor.

Bones Jones will beat Shogun, and if you think otherwise, than you don't know MMA. I don't need to post my ticket, but I will be in Vegas betting on the fight, and that will be the fight I am loading up on.

Enough with this nonsense. Shogun is a black belt and a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu South American Championship. Jones started traning MMA what four years ago. Jones has never fought a striker like Shogun and was getting worked on his feet by Vera who got cut one fight later(Although he is back now). I'll admit Jones has good takedowns but his ground and pound has only been effective against wrestlers who are clueless off their backs. If you've watched any of Shogun's fights, you would know any time he is taken down he gets up right away and is extremely dangerous off his back with submissions (leg locks, knee bars, etc). Go watch Shogun versus Kevin Randleman or Rampage Jackson if you want to see how he does against wrestlers. Jones will most likely get Shogun down and he will have to get back up or go for submissions. If it stay on the feet and Shogun tests his chin, Jones will get murdered. All that said, this should be a pick em fight therefore the value is on Shogun.

[ttrace35]

Ttrace, you must be a Fedor fan huh?

I'm not a fedor fan. I'm a Pride fan. Love to see Pride fighters do well. But I'm not stupid. Fedor hasn't fought anybody good in at least 5 years. I was there live, and I lost my money with arlovski.

[Ranx777]

And my original statement was not comparing Shogun to Fedor, I am comparing the dude who thinks Shogun will win this fight to the typical 'Fedor is the best HW,' those are the same fan here.

Youngbutgood is probably one of them.

Are you really comparing Rampage and Kevin Randlemen's wrestling to Jones'? That pretty much made everything you said void right there. I have seen all of Shogun's fights. So I will let you go ahead and bet the 'value' here. I hope a majority thinks that, then that will drive the price down for the guy who will actually win the fight. I don't think Jones has much intention of standing with Shogun, and he definitely would get murdered if he was that stupid. But he won't stand with Shogun, especially considering the camp he comes from. Rashad and GSP don't even test the better strikers anymore, and neither will Bones.

And Jones has been wrestling his whole life, so although he has been training MMA 4 years, Shogun has seen nowhere near the wrestler Bones is.

[ttrace35]

Ranx777. You are a fukkin tuf noooobie. Your not fooling anybody.

[joeyp1222]

Jon is from my hometown and bunch of us are going to the fight he a tough sucker and knows his shit he was a bouncer at the bar and i think he will prevail with his home town crowd behind him I hope lol

[youngbutgood]

And my original statement was not comparing Shogun to Fedor, I am comparing the dude who thinks Shogun will win this fight to the typical 'Fedor is the best HW,' those are the same fan here.

Youngbutgood is probably one of them.

Are you really comparing Rampage and Kevin Randlemen's wrestling to Jones'? That pretty much made everything you said void right there. I have seen all of Shogun's fights. So I will let you go ahead and bet the 'value' here. I hope a majority thinks that, then that will drive the price down for the guy who will actually win the fight. I don't think Jones has much intention of standing with Shogun, and he definitely would get murdered if he was that stupid. But he won't stand with Shogun, especially considering the camp he comes from. Rashad and GSP don't even test the better strikers anymore, and neither will Bones.

And Jones has been wrestling his whole life, so although he has been training MMA 4 years, Shogun has seen nowhere near the wrestler Bones is.

If you really watched all of Shogun's fights, you would know Kevin Randleman was a beast when he fought Shogun and had some of the best wrestling in MMA. Randleman is a two time Division I NCAA Champion and his credentials are far superior to Jon Jones. Therefore I think you should stop giving people advice on MMA and go back to watching TUF reruns on spike tv.

[Ranx777]

Haha you guys are funny.

And young, MMA wrestling is much much different then collegiate wrestling, and you know this.

And why is calling people a noob suppose to be such a degrading comment. I don't get that one. Call me whatever you want, and I have no clue what my MMA betting record is since I started getting serious about it, and I don't know yours either, neither do I care. But I know I make a good amount on it. And if you have seen more MMA fights then I, I commend you for that, because it would take a lot.

It's sad you guys can't have a serious discussion. Young will you be betting on Shogun? Will u trace?

[youngbutgood]

Haha you guys are funny.

And young, MMA wrestling is much much different then collegiate wrestling, and you know this.

And why is calling people a noob suppose to be such a degrading comment. I don't get that one. Call me whatever you want, and I have no clue what my MMA betting record is since I started getting serious about it, and I don't know yours either, neither do I care. But I know I make a good amount on it. And if you have seen more MMA fights then I, I commend you for that, because it would take a lot.

It's sad you guys can't have a serious discussion. Young will you be betting on Shogun? Will u trace?

Yeah I'll be on Shogun. I'm still laughing at the fact you compared Randleman's wrestling credentials to Jones. You do know Jones wrestled at a Community College whereas Randleman wrestled at The Ohio State University. Do you know the difference? I hope people like you continue to bet on Jones so I can get a better number on Shogun.

[ttrace35]

Haha you guys are funny.

And young, MMA wrestling is much much different then collegiate wrestling, and you know this.

And why is calling people a noob suppose to be such a degrading comment. I don't get that one. Call me whatever you want, and I have no clue what my MMA betting record is since I started getting serious about it, and I don't know yours either, neither do I care. But I know I make a good amount on it. And if you have seen more MMA fights then I, I commend you for that, because it would take a lot.

It's sad you guys can't have a serious discussion. Young will you be betting on Shogun? Will u trace

I was gonna let you rant and rave. But when you said whoever is betting on Shogun, doesn't know mma, I had to jump in. You sound like a fukkin fool. I will be betting and I will post my ticket. I will also be at the fight. Good luck in vegas pal

[ttrace35]

Not even saying Shogun is guaranteed to win. Anything could happen. But to say someone doesn't know mma, because their picking shogun, is retarded.

[Ranx777]

Well that comment I was just prying at you, I guess it worked. That comment has a long story behind it actually. But I dont actually believe that one. I have lost a few BIG wagers on fights, but definitely won more than lost. And usually can find the good values in the dogs on the card. I do however hope the majority of peeps are on Shogun so I get a better number, as I had said, before young repeated that exact thing to me.

People are going to disagree on fights. And I guess we will disagree, that wrestling credentials, don't tell the whole story. GSP is the best wrestler in MMA, and doesn't have the credentials. Dan Henderson has Olympic Greco... and so forth.

And just for the record, I am not even a Bones Jones fan at all, despite me being pretty confident he will win this fight. I hope Shogun KO's him round one, but that mainly stems from my friends being all over Jones' nuts, 10 times worse than me.

No matter what, Ill be on Jones big, and believe his wrestling is the best Shogun has seen. Randlemen was 34 years of age vs Shogun and had lost 6 of his past 8 fights prior to that one, so I just don't think his comparison to Bones is relevant.

[snake11eyes]

Bones Jones will beat Shogun, and if you think otherwise, than you don't know MMA. I don't need to post my ticket, but I will be in Vegas betting on the fight, and that will be the fight I am loading up on.

I hope Shogun KO's him round one, but that mainly stems from my friends being all over Jones' nuts, 10 times worse than me.

[Eccocide]

Are you really comparing Rampage and Kevin Randlemen's wrestling to Jones'? That pretty much made everything you said void right there. I have seen all of Shogun's fights. So I will let you go ahead and bet the 'value' here. I hope a majority thinks that, then that will drive the price down for the guy who will actually win the fight. I don't think Jones has much intention of standing with Shogun, and he definitely would get murdered if he was that stupid. But he won't stand with Shogun, especially considering the camp he comes from. Rashad and GSP don't even test the better strikers anymore, and neither will Bones.

And Jones has been wrestling his whole life, so although he has been training MMA 4 years, Shogun has seen nowhere near the wrestler Bones is.

Did you see the one where he swept the best grappler in the world at the time with an Omoplata to get it back to the standup? Oh, I forgot, that happened in Pride. It doesn't count.

[GunShard]

Will the Reach and Wrestling of Jones dominate Rua?

[Educ8d Degener8]

Will the Reach and Wrestling of Jones dominate Rua?

Not gonna comment on the wrestling, 'cos I'll just tangent off into other sh*t -- JBJ takedowns likely, Shogun's guard, etc.

But regarding the reach -- Shogun does have some experience fighting guys with a sizeable reach advantage... see Alistair Overeem 2X... Though I think that is about a 7" differential; whereas, JBJ comes in with about a foot... I'm not too worried about Shogun standing here, as I think he's the superior striker; and Jones has holes in his striking that are masked by his sheer freakishness and unorthodox approaches.

Jones is gonna try to get this to the floor with a quickness after that bell rings.

[kiefynugs]

what do yall think. Njokuani at +220 against barbosa

[The HOFF]

More odds out, but still missing the last 3 preliminary fights.

[The HOFF]

Like Tibau. Barboza is too steep. Like the movement for Eliot Marshall. Going to hold out and see if it gets closer to +200.

[kiefynugs]

man i took pellegrino AND almeida at openers and they both dropped 10 right when I placed bet

guess i need a little more practice with openers before I get to Vaughany arb level

[kiefynugs]

barboza started out at 300 then went all the way to 210. I'm pretty sure the line will sink to about 230 maybe?

[Conan]

I'm not a fedor fan. I'm a Pride fan. Love to see Pride fighters do well. But I'm not stupid. Fedor hasn't fought anybody good in at least 5 years. I was there live, and I lost my money with arlovski.

i still don't get why people dont give respect to Fedor beating Arlovski
in 2009? Arlovski is falling off now but at that time he was on a 5 fight win streak including his last 3 in the UFC

[ttrace35]

i still don't get why people dont give respect to Fedor beating Arlovski
in 2009? Arlovski is falling off now but at that time he was on a 5 fight win streak including his last 3 in the UFC

My bad. I meant that I was there live for the recent heavyweight tournament. I bet on AA and Fedor was a no play.

[sportsfanatic]

i still don't get why people dont give respect to Fedor beating Arlovski
in 2009? Arlovski is falling off now but at that time he was on a 5 fight win streak including his last 3 in the UFC

i don't mind him beating arlovski. hong-man and matt lindland fights were a joke though. lindland is middleweight. hong-man's a no-name.

[GunShard]

Not gonna comment on the wrestling, 'cos I'll just tangent off into other sh*t -- JBJ takedowns likely, Shogun's guard, etc.

But regarding the reach -- Shogun does have some experience fighting guys with a sizeable reach advantage... see Alistair Overeem 2X... Though I think that is about a 7" differential; whereas, JBJ comes in with about a foot... I'm not too worried about Shogun standing here, as I think he's the superior striker; and Jones has holes in his striking that are masked by his sheer freakishness and unorthodox approaches.

Jones is gonna try to get this to the floor with a quickness after that bell rings.

Good points. The reach and height of Overeem is about the same as Jones.
But I see that Overeem has more submission wins while Jones has more striking wins.

[Jaug]

Shogun, no question.

[LearningTree]

I think and hope Shogun drags it out because I want to see what Jones is made of. Jones has barely faced any adversity so far due to being such a phenomenal wrestler and freak athlete. I want to see this go to the 3rd just to see what Jones has when he loses his explosiveness a bit and gets tired. Because I do not believe he is technically better than Shogun at anything but wrestling, and when you are tired, you need to know what you're doing technically to win.

[Conan]

Good points. The reach and height of Overeem is about the same as Jones. But I see that Overeem has more submission wins while Jones has more striking wins.

ya he has more subs but he has a lot of kos as well he is a K-1 champ

[kiefynugs]

shogun made overeem look like a punk when they fought. That's LHW overeem though so it's not to say that Rua would beat the reem now.

Jones has about the same build and better grappling, but no standup

[TheJames]

Shogun is a proven fighter, and is the champ. Anytime you have a guy like that as an underdog you take him!

[Conan]

i don't mind him beating arlovski. hong-man and matt lindland fights were a joke though. lindland is middleweight. hong-man's a no-name.

you do have a small point but fighters bounce weight classes all the time ie bj penn vs leoto machita its not like fedor is a big heavyweight and hong-man is a k-1 champ ill agree these are not top contenders but whith him not in the UFC sometimes you need to take fights with this type just too keep fighting because danna buys all the talent up

[Conan]

oh and lindland had bean fighting 205 he just fought rampage and horn

[sportsfanatic]

oh and lindland had bean fighting 205 he just fought rampage and horn

sorry but major difference between heavyweight and other weight classes. fedor should think about dropping to lhw.

[FindTheLock]

I am very excited to see these two go at it this weekend. Shogun by submission! Any questions??