To SBR mods/SBR owners on how to ensure client confidence

[Majman]

I had been a long time poster for many years on a site named EOG.COM (Eye on Gambling). It was owned by the late Ken Weitzner. When his site posted a banner and sponsored a shady book or a book that caused posters to question, on many occasions, he would personally guarantee payment from that book up to a certain dollar amount (a lot of times up to $10K). If the book folded or didn't pay, he would be responsible for payment. Ken was a very sharp man and these types of promises instilled confidence in the potential customers and business at these books boomed. I developed a personal relationship with Ken and he always followed through on his promises.

With some posters questioning the integrity of SBR and how they devoutly stand behing books that they receive business from, why not develop a similar approach and guarantee the business of some of these books if SBR has such a high opinion of their trustworthyness? It could be a win/win for SBR and the posters. SBR could negotiate a higher advertiser rate from the book because of the guarantee and the player could post and wager with these books with confidence and when a complaint was made about a book, both parties had a state in the affairs and the player wouldn't always feel like SBR is blindly defending their sponsored book over the poster. SBR, however, would need to prove that they were as trustworthy as Ken and actually pay people when non--payment occured from a "secure" book.

Just a suggestion.

[MBENZ]

Lol,who did he ever pay?You've got to be kidding or delusional.

[erickvivar]

I think MBenz missed the point. I do think Majman idea is a good one.

[5mike5]

I think MBenz missed the point. I do think Majman idea is a good one.

he totally missed the point..its a good idea but wont happen

[MBENZ]

I didn't miss any point.Not once,never did Weitzner pay anyone for their losses.The only way that system that OP talks about works is if the book escrows money to the site upfront.Peeps place did it for awhile,fortunatly they didn't take any crap books on where they had to make good.You can't expect a site to make good on every book that comes down the pike with a guarentee unless you have no intention of honoring it like what happened at EOG.

[wtt0315]

i dont think sbr needs to do this personally. If i decide to play there so be it, its my decesion. SBR did not put a gun to my head and say play at 5dimes. Sbr advertises just like a lot of other sites. If i go to a site that advertises cars and i buy a lemon, they are not going pay for it. If these sites pay sbr to advertise so be it, thats how they make money. Most of us are adults on here and have our own brains, well some of us are adults, and we make our own deceisions. Sbr owes us nothing and they provide us a service for free. If you don't like that service then you don't have to come here and can go back to rx,bop,bpo,rep,ado,abcd,or whatever site is out there. Would you rather have no sites like Sbr where you can just guess what sites are good or would you rather have a free service that advertises where at least you can have discussions and see some feedback on sites. This was no means an attack on the orginal poster, but it just seems people on here think that sbr's only buisness model is to make sure all posters are protected, in reality sbrs job here is to make money for themselves and give us help if we need it with books. I would love to see advertising companies give money back to people if they are scammed. Damn, maybe obama will give me some money since i voted for him and he didnt do what he said. I was scammed out of 10 k here with a f rated book a few years back but that was my own fault. I only play at 2 books now with betislands and heritage and if one of them flop and i lose my money its not sbr's fault for advertising for them, it was my own fault for depositing.

[mtneer1212]

This is ridiculous.

SBR's opinion is a guideline, not a rule or a guarantee. If you have been around long enough, you know where to play, and where is risky. Every once in a while, someone gets burned by a semi-reputable outfit, like WSEX. SBR is not the FDIC.

I take SBR's opinion of a book into consideration, but have completely stopped using them as a referral to open a new account for some contest. I don't like a lot of their policies. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate some of their work; in fact, I appreciate a lot of it, including this forum. But I am not naive enough to know that a book that SBR endorses could run off into the night. It happens. Ask the idoits over at Covers.

[Bill Dozer]

I had been a long time poster for many years on a site named EOG.COM (Eye on Gambling). It was owned by the late Ken Weitzner. When his site posted a banner and sponsored a shady book or a book that caused posters to question, on many occasions, he would personally guarantee payment from that book up to a certain dollar amount (a lot of times up to $10K). If the book folded or didn't pay, he would be responsible for payment. Ken was a very sharp man and these types of promises instilled confidence in the potential customers and business at these books boomed. I developed a personal relationship with Ken and he always followed through on his promises.
Just a suggestion.

Those programs were scams. That one was one notch below the TOW rookie project. It's justification to take money from no good sportsbooks. How can you advertise Oddsmaker.com after SBR posted this report about them stiffing players? Well, I'll guarentee your money. They would advertise to all visitors and if you happen to be a poster (20% of actual traffic) and happen to join through that banner and jump through the hoops of verifying your balance every week, you might be covered up to a certain amount.

[RickySteve]

OP,

Just to clarify, you are assigning the adjective "trustworthy" to Ken Weitzner, the coke-head scammer that BBQ'd himself and stiffed the industry for 7 figures?

[shari91]

OP I think the main difference between the scenario you're talking about and SBR comes into play when you said: "When his site posted a banner and sponsored a shady book or a book that caused posters to question, on many occasions, he would personally guarantee payment from that book up to a certain dollar amount (a lot of times up to $10K)"

How many "shady" books "or books that caused posters to question" are on SBR's recommended list? Your idea of charging advertisers higher rates because of the Shrink guarantee is a noble one, but how many of those 5 books above would be willing to pay a rate that would be commensurate to guaranteeing the balances of every SBR poster, especially considering the events that have happened this year? Those books don't need to pay exorbitant advertising rates... they're great books on their own, with or without a grandiose marketing budget. The only people who would be willing to agree to that rate would be those shady books you referred to because they would be hoping to use SBR to gain credibility in the market and that's not whom with SBR chooses to do business.

It's very easy to offer guarantees you have no intention of paying on dodgy books that the majority of posters will never even bother with, let alone cash out from. But it's a bit far-fetched to think that at a forum with 130k + members, SBR can guarantee the balances of every poster that is playing with a recommended book.

*Just my opinion. Not speaking as an SBR employee.

[sharpcat]

So who is the SBR Moderator who put my SBR account on this ultra slow server, delayed my posting to once every 6,000 seconds, and disabled my search capabilities?????????

Seems like SBR is going theRX route.

[sideloaded]

So who is the SBR Moderator who put my SBR account on this ultra slow server, delayed my posting to once every 6,000 seconds, and disabled my search capabilities?????????

They should have done this a long time ago. SBR is a privilege remember that sharpcat. You're now a second class citizen and I look down upon you.

[Majman]

OP I think the main difference between the scenario you're talking about and SBR comes into play when you said: "When his site posted a banner and sponsored a shady book or a book that caused posters to question, on many occasions, he would personally guarantee payment from that book up to a certain dollar amount (a lot of times up to $10K)"

How many "shady" books "or books that caused posters to question" are on SBR's recommended list? Your idea of charging advertisers higher rates because of the Shrink guarantee is a noble one, but how many of those 5 books above would be willing to pay a rate that would be commensurate to guaranteeing the balances of every SBR poster, especially considering the events that have happened this year? Those books don't need to pay exorbitant advertising rates... they're great books on their own, with or without a grandiose marketing budget. The only people who would be willing to agree to that rate would be those shady books you referred to because they would be hoping to use SBR to gain credibility in the market and that's not whom with SBR chooses to do business.

It's very easy to offer guarantees you have no intention of paying on dodgy books that the majority of posters will never even bother with, let alone cash out from. But it's a bit far-fetched to think that at a forum with 130k + members, SBR can guarantee the balances of every poster that is playing with a recommended book.

*Just my opinion. Not speaking as an SBR employee.

Shari, I appreciate yours & Bill's response to my idea. I think it has possibilities. Not necessarily within the exact framework that I outlined. If SBR has supreme confidence in the individual or entity running the book, then a guarantee (barring DOJ intervention) doesn't seem to far fetched to me. It would certainly boost your posters' confidence and increase traffic on the site.

I don't disagree with what anyone had to say in reply to this idea. I just knew that the concept worked at EOG and was a very effective marketing ploy for all parties. Yes, Ken disappointed in the end, but he was a solid man of his word for decades, and I don't know of a single poster of his that he stiffed. He was loyal to them. He stiffed the books with his ultimate actions.

[durito]

Shari, I appreciate yours & Bill's response to my idea. I think it has possibilities. Not necessarily within the exact framework that I outlined. If SBR has supreme confidence in the individual or entity running the book, then a guarantee (barring DOJ intervention) doesn't seem to far fetched to me. It would certainly boost your posters' confidence and increase traffic on the site.

I don't disagree with what anyone had to say in reply to this idea. I just knew that the concept worked at EOG and was a very effective marketing ploy for all parties. Yes, Ken disappointed in the end, but he was a solid man of his word for decades, and I don't know of a single poster of his that he stiffed. He was loyal to them. He stiffed the books with his ultimate actions.

lol at it working at eog. his books stiffed tons of players, he paid none. i inquired if he´d back me at odssmaker and his requirements made it impossible.

[sharpcat]

They should have done this a long time ago. SBR is a privilege remember that sharpcat. You're now a second class citizen and I look down upon you.

Thats fantastic we here at SBR are all concerned about what a nobody like yourself thinks about us.

If it makes you feel better I still look at you as the degenerate long term losing gambler I always thought you were.

[SBR_John]

We could not afford to insure player balances. Ken for starters didn't have any money and secondly did not refer very many players so it was a no lose guarantee for him. Besides, we do not recommend shady books that need such a gimmick.

[Majman]

Well, my experiences with Ken were nothing but positive. Without going into specifics, I trusted him with a lot of my money on several occasions and he never once let me down. Once he knew the kind of player that I was (volume wise), he got me in touch with people at books that I never could have on my own and got me deals that I never could have gotten on my own. Books offered me all kinds of credit deals through his word of my play and my integrity. He may have made money off of referring me, but it benefitted me as well.

When I had an issue with a book earlier this year, Lou had an intimate knowledge of how much money I dealt with and to say that I got treated well by him would not be accurate. I haven't heard back from him since. Obviously, I read the posts on SBR and occasionally post, but the site could be so much better and SBR could potentially develop lucrative relationships with some of their posters, like Ken & EOG once did with some of their posters. This post is not intended to bash SBR, it's just intended to open the minds of those that run the site.

[SBR Lou]

When I had an issue with a book earlier this year, Lou had an intimate knowledge of how much money I dealt with and to say that I got treated well by him would not be accurate. I haven't heard back from him since. Obviously, I read the posts on SBR and occasionally post, but the site could be so much better and SBR could potentially develop lucrative relationships with some of their posters, like Ken & EOG once did with some of their posters. This post is not intended to bash SBR, it's just intended to open the minds of those that run the site.

Chambers99,

You were allowed to continue to bash Bodog for weeks on end without censorship. We both know your balance was paid to you, and that there's not an outstanding claim.

Hell, we're allowing you to use a second name despite your other account eventually being disabled due to disrupting the message board. I'd say SBR has been very tolerant of you, considering your glaringly obvious agenda.

[sideloaded]

Thats fantastic we here at SBR are all concerned about what a nobody like yourself thinks about us.

If it makes you feel better I still look at you as the degenerate long term losing gambler I always thought you were.

how long did it take you to post that? 6000 seconds? Have fun being on the ice age dns for a while. At least I can beat bodogs soft lines for 50 bucks a pop. Beats booking high school kids bets like you have to do.

[runner5k]

Knowing this is chambers99 is very helpful so now I can view this thread with a grain of salt! I wish there was a spot to find out new names of previous posters

Chambers99,

You were allowed to continue to bash Bodog for weeks on end without censorship. We both know your balance was paid to you, and that there's not an outstanding claim.

Hell, we're allowing you to use a second name despite your other account eventually being disabled due to disrupting the message board. I'd say SBR has been very tolerant of you, considering your glaringly obvious agenda.

[mtneer1212]

Chambers99.............busted! Mess with Lou, get the horns!

[Majman]

Chambers99,

You were allowed to continue to bash Bodog for weeks on end without censorship. We both know your balance was paid to you, and that there's not an outstanding claim.

Hell, we're allowing you to use a second name despite your other account eventually being disabled due to disrupting the message board. I'd say SBR has been very tolerant of you, considering your glaringly obvious agenda.

SBR knows why I used the other name and it had nothing to do with being malicious. It's nice how SBR (Lou) bans me because of discussing how I got scammed from Bodog. He knows it and Bodog knows it. To tell me not to discuss that situation ever again and then have you, Lou, bring it up again is very classless. You are an awful moderator, you have shown on multiple occasions that you don't respond to "official SBR complaints" until someone posts on the forum to "remind" you over and over again and you are useless as a moderator. Also, it would help if you had a clue of the business operates. You are a proven liar when you say that I got paid my balance.

I come onto a site, try and post a thoughtful idea, and this is what happens. SBR reflects the entire online gaming industry. All that's left is the bottom of the barrel. Get that resume together, Lou, I'm sure you will be pumping gas in a matter of weeks.

[aggieshawn]

Mom are you drinking again?

[Majman]

Hey Lou, good job with the Betonline guy (Margy) with the $10K wire that took over a month and many failed promises and lies from Betonline. You tried to spin and spin and spin that Betonline was doing nothing wrong, while crapping on the poster and the intelligence of the other posters. You looked like a fool, you fool.

[The Prick]

hey marjory how many banners did kenny hang for books that shit the bed? how much did he pay out on his insurance scam? come on back when ya got them answers. i already know the second one

[Majman]

hey marjory how many banners did kenny hang for books that shit the bed? how much did he pay out on his insurance scam? come on back when ya got them answers. i already know the second one

I'm not denying either of your points nor am I denying that he had issues but he tried his best for his loyal posters and did care about them.

All of these sites take business from sites that may or may not go down. Nobody can avoid that. That's why I had posted my original idea. People like Ken knew the books that were likelier to fail and the ones that were likelier to succeed. If SBR had similar knowledge, then they could lead to opportunities if they acted strategically.

[On the come]

hey marjory how many banners did kenny hang for books that shit the bed? how much did he pay out on his insurance scam? come on back when ya got them answers. i already know the second one

I'm sure I already know the answer, but had anyone ever gotten anything from the insurance?

[tommygun]

I'm not denying either of your points nor am I denying that he had issues but he tried his best for his loyal posters and did care about them. All of these sites take business from sites that may or may not go down. Nobody can avoid that. That's why I had posted my original idea. People like Ken knew the books that were likelier to fail and the ones that were likelier to succeed. If SBR had similar knowledge, then they could lead to opportunities if they acted strategically.

if you got such a problem with the way things are run at SBR then get lost, no one is asking you to stay here or contribute anything

[Majman]

if you got such a problem with the way things are run at SBR then get lost, no one is asking you to stay here or contribute anything

Thanks for your intelligent, well thought out response. This is a forum, where people exchange ideas and suggestions. If you don't understand the concept of that, then maybe this type of activity is too sophisticated for you and you should go back to finger painting.

[tommygun]

It is a tough case. I initially considered that a 300 Euro confiscation might be reasonable for fraud... but that creates all sorts of other problems. Dozer and I discussed this one at length. What if the player's main account was up 50k, and the player opens a second one to circumvent limits? No one would argue that seizing the 50k is fair.

Thanks for your intelligent, well thought out response. This is a forum, where people exchange ideas and suggestions. If you don't understand the concept of that, then maybe this type of activity is too sophisticated for you and you should go back to finger painting.

ok more to my point, stop whinging then! ffs.