Pinnacle for stateside players

[Max009]

Max....how come the limits on soccer is still $250. Many punters play soccer.

The limits are not $250. Make sure you are looking at the low juice lines. For example the ML limit for Blackburn v Arsenal is over 5k and higher for the spread.

[Max009]

The 2% deduction off the top is a little tough to get used to, and doing a balance reconciliation daily is a nightmare esp with gold price fluctuations, but you will get used to it. It's good to know that the 2% will be reimbursed in the form of a bonus on GP withdrawls, even if it's only once a month. Sounds reasonable.

Customer service is excellent. If GP survives, in theory you will always get paid with no bullshit.

Also, Parlaymakers respects player privacy and identity security which is very important to many players.

Thanks for the positive comments. Just to clarify, there is no bonus reimbursement on withdrawals.

[Hareeba!]

No one is being cheated on the price. This thread is a good example of our transparency in discussing our policies. It is different. When you play at Parlaymakers this is how it works. Perfectly reasonable to factor in how much that may or may not affect your wagering. For the vast majority of players it will have no impact on their overall bottom line. I like the discussion but to say we are cheating people is not fair to us or to the discussion.

ok, "cheating" is probably a bit too severe a word for it but I can't offhand think of a more appropriate word for selling a product at a price in excess of that at which you've attracted the offer to purchase it without the purchaser's consent.

[Max009]

The issue with with this is simple. Example:

look at a game where the line opened -3.5, lets say later in the day the number moves to say 4.5 at nearly every book. The chalk player sees the 3.5 and ends up getting 4.5 because he is"chasing steam". Next the dog player plays and my gut tells me he isn't going to get 4.5 because you are still showing 3.5. Is showing the right updated number off the bat too much to ask?

It is what it is. If getting the most current line Pinnacle has for your wager is not good enough then I can't help you. If that is your biggest concern then you are better off playing at a full juice book and never worrying about it. You will be much worse off financially in the long run but that is the tradeoff you are saying might want to make.

I really do understand what you are saying.

[Max009]

I didn't say it would move that much every time. It was just an example.
But any move is likely to result in my getting a lower price than I could have got elsewhere



I said "almost always'"
And I put forward a very logical argument to support that
You've given no reason for your statement that it is "not logical"




I don't believe I said that either.
I would expect for US players only it may be quite frequently but I'd expect Matchbook to be better more often
For non-US players PM can never be the best price available after you factor in the 2% slug

Well, in discussing US players I think we can agree it is basically between Parlaymakers and Matchbook with the caveat that Matchbook will not offer everything and may not have the liquidity at times that a player may want.

Our pricing is copying Pinnacle so if you see the Pinnacle line then we are slightly behind that, like a lot of people. We update very fast but it is not real time. To avoid people continually trying to take advantage of that we instituted this policy. The policy reduces our operational expense, eliminates the needs for delays and always guarantees the current price available for the client. That is the best we can do for you.

[Max009]

ok, "cheating" is probably a bit too severe a word for it but I can't offhand think of a more appropriate word for selling a product at a price in excess of that at which you've attracted the offer to purchase it without the purchaser's consent.

Market orders in the stock market are not considered cheating by anybody. It is no different here. Exact same principal. I do appreciate all of your comments and feedback on the subject. We are open to dialogue even if we don't always change to what the player wants. Anybody who has seen us in the forums knows that we change and modify things quite a bit based on player feedback.

[Hareeba!]

Well, in discussing US players I think we can agree it is basically between Parlaymakers and Matchbook with the caveat that Matchbook will not offer everything and may not have the liquidity at times that a player may want.

Our pricing is copying Pinnacle so if you see the Pinnacle line then we are slightly behind that, like a lot of people. We update very fast but it is not real time. To avoid people continually trying to take advantage of that we instituted this policy. The policy reduces our operational expense, eliminates the needs for delays and always guarantees the current price available for the client. That is the best we can do for you.

Ok, if that's the best you can do, and you can't see fit to change it to do as almost every other book on the planet does, it is going to cost you a lot of business.

good luck

[Hareeba!]

Market orders in the stock market are not considered cheating by anybody. It is no different here. Exact same principal. I do appreciate all of your comments and feedback on the subject. We are open to dialogue even if we don't always change to what the player wants. Anybody who has seen us in the forums knows that we change and modify things quite a bit based on player feedback.

stock market investors who place 'market orders' are not accepting any particular price quote

a lot of other investors/traders place orders at min. or max. prices ... their orders will never get matched outside the prices they nominate

your analogy just doesn't stack up ... move on

[vyomguy]

Max...when will the limits for football teasers be increased?....the football pre-season has already started.

[thespeculator]

if max says people won't be limited of cut off for winning and they are true to that, I think that is going to make them great option for some people , I actually like being paid without hassle ,call me crazy, but when you pay a fee and it gives you a service in return then you have to look at what you are getting for that fee. I am getting no worries about a check bouncing, when the check will come, will the bank teller ask 20 questions, I think the gp fee is alot but worth paying , for australians or euros who dont have to worry about the checks it may not be worth it

[Igetp2s]

Well, in discussing US players I think we can agree it is basically between Parlaymakers and Matchbook with the caveat that Matchbook will not offer everything and may not have the liquidity at times that a player may want. Our pricing is copying Pinnacle so if you see the Pinnacle line then we are slightly behind that, like a lot of people. We update very fast but it is not real time. To avoid people continually trying to take advantage of that we instituted this policy. The policy reduces our operational expense, eliminates the needs for delays and always guarantees the current price available for the client. That is the best we can do for you.

There are plenty of other reduced juice options available for US players besides yourself and Matchbook. The sooner you realize that and start working on the issues raised by posters here to improve the quality of your book, rather than try to defend idiotic policies, the better your book will be. You are NOT the only reduced juice option for US players, so stop acting like you have a monopoly and don't need to make any changes.

Pinnacle gives you a warning when lines change, there's no reason you can't as well. Your stubbornness is incredible. You bizarrely keep trying to compare your book to the stock market, when there is no connection whatsoever.

[iceman9870]

Max. I am strongly considering parlaymakers. It sounds like a great option. I am only concerned with *******. Can you give me your thoughts on them and where I can find any articles or any documentation that they are a stable company?

[scott235]

Thanks for the positive comments. Just to clarify, there is no bonus reimbursement on withdrawals.

Well.....why not? Even if you gave back 2% in an extra bonus, you could apply the same standard rollover to get it as your ongoing bonuses and it would go a long way in reducing a major objection to your service. Right or wrong, players hate to see that 2% deducted off the top of every win.

Remember, only once a month....not on every PO.

[Max009]

Max...when will the limits for football teasers be increased?....the football pre-season has already started.

What do you think the maximum limit should be? What would be good for you?

[bookie]

Well.....why not? Even if you gave back 2% in an extra bonus, you could apply the same standard rollover to get it as your ongoing bonuses and it would go a long way in reducing a major objection to your service. Right or wrong, players hate to see that 2% deducted off the top of every win.

Remember, only once a month....not on every PO.

The bonus doesn't apply to the reduced juice lines.

[scott235]

I see what you're getting at. Then PM could just put a 60 or 90 day "pending" on it.

[Max009]

There are plenty of other reduced juice options available for US players besides yourself and Matchbook. The sooner you realize that and start working on the issues raised by posters here to improve the quality of your book, rather than try to defend idiotic policies, the better your book will be. You are NOT the only reduced juice option for US players, so stop acting like you have a monopoly and don't need to make any changes.

Pinnacle gives you a warning when lines change, there's no reason you can't as well. Your stubbornness is incredible. You bizarrely keep trying to compare your book to the stock market, when there is no connection whatsoever.

Changing the policy only real helps the steam chasers. It requires additional operating expense to monitor all that....cause we would have to monitor every account for trying to steam chase on us. Then we would have to institute delays and it is really not worth it just to help steam chasers. Like I said before, if getting the pinnacle price is not good enough then that is all we can do. This thread is a good example, the people who actually play with us aren't complaining because they are getting great value, they like the payout methods, they like the low juice, they like the fair treatment. This thread demonstrates that we are open about how things work and offering a great value especially for US customers.

There are only really 3 places that offer low juice, 5 dimes (lower limits and will cut you off), Bet Phoenix very competitive with us but people have been experiencing some delays getting paid, and Matchbook which doesnt offer everything and other than moneylines and spreads late on major sports does not have the liquidity you would want.

We can't be everything to everybody, if you want excellent low juice value, simple fast payouts, no limiting, no delays, and a no nonsense site then we are the place for you.

[vyomguy]

What do you think the maximum limit should be? What would be good for you?

How about this...the max payout should be the same as the max limit for the Football side. Right now I see 8,000 as the max limit for a football side. So, the max payout for a teaser should be 8,000. I think that's a fair limit.

[Hareeba!]

Changing the policy only real helps the steam chasers. It requires additional operating expense to monitor all that....cause we would have to monitor every account for trying to steam chase on us. Then we would have to institute delays and it is really not worth it just to help steam chasers.

Sounds like a load of BS to me

I explained to you earlier how I operate and I would expect almost all serious punters are similar. You didn't answer my question as to whether that is "steam chasing" in your opinion. Is it?

Why would a simple message advising a price change only help steam players?

Why would you have to monitor any accounts?

Why would you have to institute delays?

As previously stated, every single other book I know of will either advise a price change and offer the option of accepting it or simply say the price has changed and reject the bet. NONE of them will sell you a bet at lower odds without warning.

Why is it so difficult to implement what all the others have put in place?

[Chopsticks]

I think the gp fee is alot but worth paying , for australians or euros who dont have to worry about the checks it may not be worth it

Actually it may still be benefitial for europeans and other people to use Parlaymakers instead of Pinnacle. With Pinnacle you get one free withdrawal per month, and additional payouts cost $15. With Parlaymakers, I believe you get one every week.

So if you are a smaller player and like to withdraw more than once a month, then Parlaymakers is a good option. I can understand the preference for using Pinnacle, but this just shows that there is at least one upside to using PM.

[durito]

Actually it may still be benefitial for europeans and other people to use Parlaymakers instead of Pinnacle. With Pinnacle you get one free withdrawal per month, and additional payouts cost $15. With Parlaymakers, I believe you get one every week.

So if you are a smaller player and like to withdraw more than once a month, then Parlaymakers is a good option. I can understand the preference for using Pinnacle, but this just shows that there is at least one upside to using PM.

Except that the risk of parlaymakers going broke is substantial, where at it pinnacle it almost non-existent.

[csm506]

Thank you for the update an news is good news as we are getting raped by the industry everyday. GL

[bookie]

Actually it may still be benefitial for europeans and other people to use Parlaymakers instead of Pinnacle. With Pinnacle you get one free withdrawal per month, and additional payouts cost $15. With Parlaymakers, I believe you get one every week.

I hope I"m all wet on this, but I don't think you get any free withrawals--at least not if you're American and have to use GP.

[Dark Horse]

Can we have a rating, SBR?

4/20/2010 12:03 PM
parlaymakers under review
parlaymakers (unrated) is under review by SBR. The newly launched sportsbook agreed to binding arbitration in the event of any sportsbook complaints submitted to SBR.

[Climate]

If they don't have any strong financial support from the owners (not backers, but actual people who are running things), then they aren't stable.

[fido007]

Why can not gen an explanation of how to use the exchange option to place a wager to be matched?I have e mailed and you have not answered

[HauntingTheHoly]

Where can I learn about this mysterious "GP"? I have no idea what it is and it sounds like I need to. PM's are fine if necessary.

[jonny]

Why is g oldpay ***'d out and Max can you attest to their financial standing?

[Igetp2s]

Changing the policy only real helps the steam chasers. It requires additional operating expense to monitor all that....cause we would have to monitor every account for trying to steam chase on us. Then we would have to institute delays and it is really not worth it just to help steam chasers. Like I said before, if getting the pinnacle price is not good enough then that is all we can do. This thread is a good example, the people who actually play with us aren't complaining because they are getting great value, they like the payout methods, they like the low juice, they like the fair treatment. This thread demonstrates that we are open about how things work and offering a great value especially for US customers. There are only really 3 places that offer low juice, 5 dimes (lower limits and will cut you off), Bet Phoenix very competitive with us but people have been experiencing some delays getting paid, and Matchbook which doesnt offer everything and other than moneylines and spreads late on major sports does not have the liquidity you would want. We can't be everything to everybody, if you want excellent low juice value, simple fast payouts, no limiting, no delays, and a no nonsense site then we are the place for you.

What the f*&# are you smoking? How exactly are you changing prices on people if your not already monitoring it and instituting delays? Don't give that BS about additional operating costs and time delays. There's no way you can be changing lines on people if you're not already doing those things.

And again, how does it help steam chasers if you ask them whether to confirm a bet or not at a new price that you claim is fair, rather than simply imposing it on them? If you have already moved the line, how is that unfair?

It seems like your intent is to try to punish people, rather than have a policy that's actually fair. Absolutely pathetic excuse for a sportsbook.

[Dark Horse]

Max, what's the relationship between GP and parlaymakers?

[LostBankroll]

Id rather parlaymakers be a post up shop rather than it be a GP puppet. I would hate having my money in GP. One thing not mentioned in this ENTIRE thread was GP's high fees when withdrawing via ** or wv. Then add the fact that your balance at GP may be less then what you left it at in the evening because gold is cheaper today than it was yesterday. Add that and the fact you pay 2% on winning means that yes parlaymakers might have pinny lines, but you almost cancel all this out with all the fees and shit you must put up with. I still think its a viable option and I may even consider playing there. But right now Id like to see alot of things fixed with PM. Suck my dick bitch cause I look like Jesus Christ.

[bookie]

Suck my dick bitch cause I look like Jesus Christ.

This part of your post puzzles me.

[Optional]

I lost money when the feds froze e-gold, 1mdc, e-bullion and picpay. GP will go the same way eventually if they choose to deal with US citizens.

Other than that, I like the rest of the concept a lot. Particularly the no dicking about with winning players limits.

[Max009]

Where can I learn about this mysterious "GP"? I have no idea what it is and it sounds like I need to. PM's are fine if necessary.

Thanks for the question. If you go to the Parlaymakers website under the How it works part it will explain .....how it all works and what you need to do to get started.

[Max009]

Max, what's the relationship between GP and parlaymakers?

Thanks for the question. If you check out the Parlaymakers blog on the website it details how we started, the relationship with GP, the previous relationship with Matchbook and a few other interesting tidbits. No need to detail it all again here.