[Optional]

Not sure why this is so important to you Jared?

What you are asking for is books who actively try to profit off funds from criminal activity and money launderers.


Do you plan to deposit and withdraw without betting again?

if so, you are a money launderer and are not welcome to discuss your criminal activity or encourage others to join you on SBR.

We actively discourage cheaters and criminals, unlike most forums.



I now consider Betcoin and Cloudbet to be as dodgy as Fairlay.

Thankyou for posting the proof that those books lie about not marketing to money launderers

[Jared Brooks]

Not sure why this is so important to you Jared?

I think I've explained it already. I want to expand into some of the bitcoin-only books, but I don't like the currency risk associated with holding a bunch of bitcoin. So I (and probably many others) would like to:

1) purchase bitcoin shortly before a sporting event, probably 30% or more than I expect to bet just in case I end up wanting to bet more
2) transfer the bitcoin to a bitcoin-only book like Fairlay, Cloudbet, Nitrogen, Betcoin
3) bet some or all or none of that bitcoin depending on line movement
4) withdraw as soon as I'm done betting
5) use the withdrawn bitcoin to purchase fiat or stable coin afterward, hoping to limit loss due to currency risk

What you are asking for is books who actively try to profit off funds from criminal activity and money launderers.

I don't see it that way. The idea that any of these offshore operations are truly concerned about the ethics of money laundering seems very strange to me. Am I wrong?

Do you plan to deposit and withdraw without betting again?

My answer above should cover this, but just to be extra clear: no.

We actively discourage cheaters and criminals, unlike most forums.

Excellent. I'm glad to be on board.

I now consider Betcoin and Cloudbet to be as dodgy as Fairlay.
Thankyou for posting the proof that those books lie about not marketing to money launderers

Agree to disagree? I'm having trouble seeing it your way, but I'm open-minded

[Optional]

Why don't you show Cloudbet or Betcoin this thread and see how happy they are?

You might get a rude shock when they suddenly claim these CS operators gave you the wrong info.

And it's not a matter we can agree to disagree about. I am not talking about my opinion. I was explaining facts and NOTHING will change my assessment of those books which you exposed here. Especially Fairlay. I have personal messages from their CEO demanding they would never knowingly do this and would make sure it did not happen again. You should see the judgmental and outraged way he spoke about Degen1 and BetG... as low class scumbag criminals for doing just what you are wanting here. The CEO directly.



Anyway, please don't keep pushing this as it really is a money laundering type discussion.

[DontTailMe]

So these books' customer support staff are putting out incorrect information?

LOL. Apparently, you don't have much experience with offshore sportsbook customer support. Yeah, they provide misinformation ALL THE TIME. That's just the nature of a low-paying job with high turnover rate.

"This behavior" meaning "depositing before the event and withdrawing more than the amount risked after the event"?

I think forbidding this behavior makes the book less appealing to a lot of bettors. Three of the four books I queried allow this behavior.

Depositing funds and then withdrawing without risking those funds. That behavior. It's absurd to think these books are okay with that.

[mrpapageorgio]

I don't see it that way. The idea that any of these offshore operations are truly concerned about the ethics of money laundering seems very strange to me. Am I wrong?

Don Corleone said it best in Godfather I.

I must say no to you, and I'll give you my reasons. It's true. I have a lot of friends in politics, but they wouldn't be friendly very long if they knew my business was drugs instead of gambling, which they rule that as a - a harmless vice. But drugs is a dirty business...It makes, it doesn't make any difference to me what a man does for a living, understand. But your business, is uh, a little dangerous.

Switch out drugs for money laundering and you have the book's issue in a nutshell.

[im over here now]

Playing with Fire Jared... Deposit large sum.. No action and cash out.. Congrats you got away with.. Double and triple congrats you talked to customer service agent.. Congrats you read tos..beat the book at its own game! You the man Jared... You got over on the book.. The great equalizer? Once the book catches on your fcked... Your money will be gone and you will be crying like a bitch... What happens next? Nothing.. You gave a company in a 3rd shit hole country your BTC... Good luck getting it back..

[Jared Brooks]

Bottom line is: I thought Nitrogen was happy to accommodate bettors who 1) don't know how much they will bet ahead of time 2) want to move bitcoin in and out quickly to avoid currency risk. For now, I can't recommend Nitrogen to anyone who plays that way. I respect that Nitrogen has its reasons for imposing the rollover.

[DroopyDog]

I can recall 2 or 3 times i deposited to Fairlay specifically for 1 match, and by the time my funds were credited the game i wanted either changed prices drastically or someone snatched up the available market and just pennies were left so i withdrew my funds

Does this make me a money launderer ?

Because it sure sounds like it would in some of your eyes, and youd agree with the book if they decided to keep my money

[Jared Brooks]

I can recall 2 or 3 times i deposited to Fairlay specifically for 1 match, and by the time my funds were credited the game i wanted either changed prices drastically or someone snatched up the available market and just pennies were left so i withdrew my funds
Does this make me a money launderer ?

Because it sure sounds like it would in some of your eyes, and youd agree with the book if they decided to keep my money

Exactly. I'm not a money launderer, never have been, never will be.

I'd just like to not lose my ass because I ended up not betting and left my funds with Nitrogen for an hour too long while bitcoin crashed.

[themike78]

Exactly. I'm not a money launderer, never have been, never will be.

I'd just like to not lose my ass because I ended up not betting and left my funds with Nitrogen for an hour too long while bitcoin crashed.

Godam then don't bet at bitcoin books. Lol.

[Jared Brooks]

Godam then don't bet at bitcoin books. Lol.

Nah, three of the major bitcoin books are telling me they won't impose a rollover. I think I'm good to go.

[im over here now]

I can recall 2 or 3 times i deposited to Fairlay specifically for 1 match, and by the time my funds were credited the game i wanted either changed prices drastically or someone snatched up the available market and just pennies were left so i withdrew my funds

Does this make me a money launderer ?

Because it sure sounds like it would in some of your eyes, and youd agree with the book if they decided to keep my money

Comical response.. When you request a withdrawal it cost money, do you actually think the book going to eat that cost? Your excuse of market closed or odds changed is a great one...It’s a great excuse, until it’s not.. Then what?

Any advice coming from you is tainted..
You openly flaunt TOS violations...
Don’t know what your getting out of it, but it should be stopped here..

You will be first one bitching your money was confiscated..

[DroopyDog]

Comical response.. When you request a withdrawal it cost money, do you actually think the book going to eat that cost? Your excuse of market closed or odds changed is a great one...It’s a great excuse, until it’s not.. Then what?

Any advice coming from you is tainted..
You openly flaunt TOS violations...
Don’t know what your getting out of it, but it should be stopped here..

You will be first one bitching your money was confiscated..

They charge you a fee for the withdraw, youd know that if you actually bet.

But alas you're just a shit talker with nothing else to do.

[Jared Brooks]

Comical response.. When you request a withdrawal it cost money, do you actually think the book going to eat that cost? Your excuse of market closed or odds changed is a great one...It’s a great excuse, until it’s not.. Then what?

Any advice coming from you is tainted..
You openly flaunt TOS violations...
Don’t know what your getting out of it, but it should be stopped here..

You will be first one bitching your money was confiscated..

Are you working for one of these books? You don't seem like an honest actor here.

[im over here now]

They charge you a fee for the withdraw, youd know that if you actually bet.

But alas you're just a shit talker with nothing else to do.

Never been charged a fee at nitrogen or bol?

[im over here now]

Are you working for one of these books? You don't seem like an honest actor here.

Yea I work for the books..Check my post history.. One big misinformation campaign for the books..

Your as bright as Droopy..

[im over here now]

They charge you a fee for the withdraw, youd know that if you actually bet.

But alas you're just a shit talker with nothing else to do.

So I ask again.. Do you not openly flaunt ways to skirt TOS at stake? Any advice you give is worth shit.., You have zero credibility..

[DontTailMe]

I can recall 2 or 3 times i deposited to Fairlay specifically for 1 match, and by the time my funds were credited the game i wanted either changed prices drastically or someone snatched up the available market and just pennies were left so i withdrew my funds

Does this make me a money launderer ?

Because it sure sounds like it would in some of your eyes, and youd agree with the book if they decided to keep my money

I doubt any book would consider what you describe as abusing the system.

[Optional]

I can recall 2 or 3 times i deposited to Fairlay specifically for 1 match, and by the time my funds were credited the game i wanted either changed prices drastically or someone snatched up the available market and just pennies were left so i withdrew my funds

Does this make me a money launderer ?

Because it sure sounds like it would in some of your eyes, and youd agree with the book if they decided to keep my money

I thought you were smarter than this.

No one had any problem with his initial post. Stuck in the same spot as you describe and wanting a no-rollover withdraw.


What the guy does not want to understand is that it matters nought what the hell he wants or thinks he should be allowed to do. If he chooses to continue this behaviour, and tried to deposit 35k in bitcoin books and then withdraw it before betting, he is risking losing his money, big time.

And on top of that, any book who allows him to do this is an unambiguous criminal organization who knows what they are doing are are intentionally trying to attract the funds from crime to be washed.


These are the operators who help make it possible for Nigerian fraudsters and trojan blackmailers, as well as more serious criminals, to operate.

Phuk them and phuk anyone who argues they should be allowed to do that because it makes your betting more convenient.

[Jared Brooks]

No one had any problem with his initial post. Stuck in the same spot as you describe and wanting a no-rollover withdraw.

I think deeppockets made the point quite well. If Nitrogen won't allow withdrawals in this type of situation, it's ultimately hurting its own business. Most bettors don't want to get stuck with extreme currency risk when they don't end up betting as much as they expected.

What the guy does not want to understand is that it matters nought what the hell he wants or thinks he should be allowed to do. If he chooses to continue this behaviour, and tried to deposit 35k in bitcoin books and then withdraw it before betting, he is risking losing his money, big time.

Going forward I'll communicate with management ahead of time. I've navigated much thornier issues with top books in the past by taking that approach.

These are the operators who help make it possible for Nigerian fraudsters and trojan blackmailers, as well as more serious criminals, to operate.

Here's the thing I don't understand about your perspective. People can and almost certainly do ML at Nitrogen by...meeting the rollover. Classic example is blackjack in Vegas. I can understand the rollover requirement as a means of reducing volume of payouts (which cost the book resources) and especially as a means of getting people to lose their money before they withdraw, but it seems like an utterly ineffective method for trying to stop ML.

[zamzack]

It is not. If you play and win, at least your funds are somehow "legit". If you deposit, don't bet and then take a full balance payment, you are rising suspicions, even more if the service you are using is anonymous. I really don't understand the need to talk shit about a book simply because you don't want to comply with their terms of use. Find another place and keep it to yourself. The display of ridiculousness in this post is reaching its critical mass.

[Jared Brooks]

I really don't understand the need to talk shit about a book simply because you don't want to comply with their terms of use.

Ridiculous take. I'm not "talking shit" about Nitrogen. The purpose of the OP was to understand if 1) this is something Nitrogen applies uniformly or only for a subset of accounts 2) what the competition is offering by comparison.

Some people decided that I most be involved in ML somehow, which is absurd, so the conversation took some different twists and turns.

If you play and win, at least your funds are somehow "legit".

...no. If you take dirty money to Vegas and you play 500 blackjack hands with small, uniform risk, you're pretty much guaranteed to leave with 90+% of the funds you entered with but now the money is "clean". It's still completely illegitimate.

[im over here now]

Ridiculous take. I'm not "talking shit" about Nitrogen. The purpose of the OP was to understand if 1) this is something Nitrogen applies uniformly or only for a subset of accounts 2) what the competition is offering by comparison.

Some people decided that I most be involved in ML somehow, which is absurd, so the conversation took some different twists and turns.


...no. If you take dirty money to Vegas and you play 500 blackjack hands with small, uniform risk, you're pretty much guaranteed to leave with 90+% of the funds you entered with but now the money is "clean". It's still completely illegitimate.

Wrong on multiple levels.. Buy in multiple times at any table game in any American casino for 35k.. Play couple hands of blacks chips and cashout.. Heat from pit boss, heat from surveillance and heat from cage... Do it multiple times and gaming will swarm and make sure they know who you are and know where the money came from.. Lots of vets on this site, your bullshit story can be seen mile away..

[Jared Brooks]

Wrong on multiple levels.. Buy in multiple times at any table game in any American casino for 35k.. Play couple hands of blacks chips and cashout.. Heat from pit boss, heat from surveillance and heat from cage... Do it multiple times and gaming will swarm and make sure they know who you are and know where the money came from.. Lots of vets on this site, your bullshit story can be seen mile away..

You totally missed the point and I'm starting you think you're either not very bright or you aren't posting in good faith.

The point, again, is that a 1x rollover doesn't seem like a very good method for stopping ML. You foolishly claimed that playing 1x with dirty funds made them "legit". That's dumb, and the blackjack thing was an analogy to show that playing with the dirty funds doesn't make them clean or "legitimate" in your words. If I start going into the (publicly available) details of ML I'm going to get banned, so I chose the simplest/most harmless old-school example that I suspect doesn't even work anymore.

Again, the point was: if you're managing an online sportsbook and you think setting a 1x rollover is going to significantly discourage ML you're a fool. On the other hand, the 1x rollover allows you to keep compulsive gamblers locked down and reduces the resources your company must spend on processing payouts. The latter two seem like much better explanations for Nitrogen's rule than AML.

Finally, you're right there are lots of vets on this site. You aren't one of them. You could have checked my posting history to see that I'm merely a sports bettor, not someone involved in child trafficking or whatever moronic idea you have about me.

[Optional]

The point, again, is that a 1x rollover doesn't seem like a very good method for stopping ML.

It's what international AML and Anti-Terror Funding agreements call for.

It's required under all major jurisdictions bookmaking licenses.

Maybe tell the G7, the UK Gambling Commission and New Jersey Gaming Board they are not very bright first if you want to argue the efficacy.


I can't recall anyone else before you that either did not admit to, or was very obviously, washing money who has any problem with this rule btw (when enforced fairly/properly). I'd be wondering if its you that isn't too bright normally, but really just think you are as stubborn as an old stump

[Jared Brooks]

It's what international AML and Anti-Terror Funding agreements call for.

It's required under all major jurisdictions bookmaking licenses.

Source for this? I might be stubborn (guilty as charged!) but I'm always open to learning more. Also just because it's required doesn't mean it's effective. Still curious to see the proof.

I can't recall anyone else before you that either did not admit to, or was very obviously, washing money who has any problem with this rule btw (when enforced fairly/properly).

That's because the others are smart enough to avoid Nitrogen. Deeppockets was saying that currency risk is a major reason he doesn't play with them. I got sloppy and didn't check their rules before depositing.

[eaglesfan371]

Guy is clearly a money launderer. Trying to hide illegal funds as casino funds/winnings.

Anyone who spends a couple minutes on Nitrogen will see it is the exact odds offered by Fairlay + margin on each side. A lot more than the 0.4% fee Fairlay charges. He keeps pushing that there are bigger players and that’s he’s a nobody.

This poster’s assertions are clearly bad. He is not betting he is washing coins 110%.

[Jared Brooks]

Anyone who spends a couple minutes on Nitrogen will see it is the exact odds offered by Fairlay + margin on each side.

That's not my understanding at all. For the sports I play, I believe Nitrogen offers the same odds and limits as Pinnacle. Fairlay does the same but seems to charge a 0.4% commission. I'll check shortly.

The rest of your post is horseshit, of course. Really amazing how many new accounts around here come across as shills for certain books.

[DontTailMe]

That's not my understanding at all. For the sports I play, I believe Nitrogen offers the same odds and limits as Pinnacle. Fairlay does the same but seems to charge a 0.4% commission. I'll check shortly.

I don't understand what you think is wrong with his statement. Both nitrogen and Fairlay mirror Pinnacle's odds. Therefore, his statement that nitrogen and Fairlay are the same (outside of juice/commission) is correct.

[Jared Brooks]

I don't understand what you think is wrong with his statement. Both nitrogen and Fairlay mirror Pinnacle's odds. Therefore, his statement that nitrogen and Fairlay are the same (outside of juice/commission) is correct.

I checked a bunch of games and the dog's price is always identical between Nitrogen and Pinnacle. I believe Fairlay would charge 0.4% on dogs, so it seems Nitrogen is superior to Fairlay in terms of odds/juice and the newbie was wrong.

On the favorite side, there does seem to be a tiny discrepancy. Real example I just found: -268 Nitrogen, -267 Pinnacle. I ran the numbers in that example and the difference works out to exactly 0.4% juice. Not sure if it's the same for all matches but the newbie seems to have been half right.

[Kaabee]

That's not my understanding at all. For the sports I play, I believe Nitrogen offers the same odds and limits as Pinnacle.

You can't rebet at Nitrogen.

[Jared Brooks]

You can't rebet at Nitrogen.

Really? What happens when you make a limit bet? You're banned from betting that side further?

[Kaabee]

Really? What happens when you make a limit bet? You're banned from betting that side further?

The limit keeps getting higher until game time. If you bet early you can bet more later but your total bets can't exceed the final limit.

[Jared Brooks]

The limit keeps getting higher until game time. If you bet early you can bet more later but your total bets can't exceed the final limit.

wow! Thank you for this information. Changes my view of things greatly.

Is the same true for Betcoin, Cloudbet, Fairlay? I'm looking to expand to the bitcoin-only books but worried about 1) limits and 2) currency risk.

[DroopyDog]

Fairlay has no limits except for what is available on the exchange, you can keep popping it as long as there is an offer available