BlackJack early payout issue with 5dimes.eu

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  • achuth
    SBR Rookie
    • 09-14-18
    • 43

    #1
    BlackJack early payout issue with 5dimes.eu
    Hello all,

    This is my first issue with 5dimes. They have been very responsive till date, but very adamant about not accepting their mistake in the Early payout BlackJack Table.

    Background:

    Early Payout BlackJack Table gives an early payout option for each and every change of cards. This is similar to surrender option in conventional blackjack games, but the payout will change based on the advantage our hand has. For instance,

    Having 17 against a dealer's 9 gives us $40 payout option for a $100 bet.
    Having a 20 against a dealer's 10 gives us a $150ish payout option for a $100 bet.
    [edited for accuracy]

    I am one such player who plays this table to take advantage of the payout option. I have take payout options may times when I had 20s against a dealer's face card. Plus, I also took many such early payouts even when I had 17 or 18 against dealer's face card.

    Current Situation:

    This is one instance where I wagered $5000 (table max) in my early payout table. I do not have the screenshots, but the representative from 5dimes can confirm this. Screenshots of the emails are attached below for reference.

    I had a soft 17 against dealer's 3.

    The options given to me were to take an early payout of $2800 ish or double or no double.
    [typo edited]

    I hit NO DOUBLE.

    I got a face card. So my hand is at 17.

    So, without doubling my soft 17 against dealer's 3, I was not given any option of early payout which I would have taken. I commented on the chat during the game about this even before the dealer pulled cards to make 18. This is totally against their rules of game play which will also be attached as screenshot below.


    Communication with 5dimes.EU

    Greetings Mr. --EDITED--,



    Please take in consideration the system did not provide the option of early payout due the odds, the player has the advantage against the dealer and for that reason the value was $0. Regarding your ticket number, the third party reviewed your account twice and the decision stands, no money is owed.



    Best Regards,

    Leslie

    5Dimes Casino & Poker Support.

    ======================================== ====

    Images:

    https://imgur.com/a/8F1nbwl ==> An instance where no early payout option was given. I didn't double the 3rd hand. I had $500 on it. Had I doubled, you would have seen 2 coins of $500 one below the another.

    https://imgur.com/a/gSizzsO ==> Rules for the early payout table.


    ==============================

    I really hope that 5dimes honors the mistake in their system and change it.

    For my wager of $5000, and given that I had 17 against a 3, I think I should get about $4000 as my early payout option.

    Thanks for your time.
    Achuth

    I will be filing an official sbr complaint soon.


    Last edited by achuth; 10-15-18, 09:58 PM. Reason: Edited to reflect more accurate payouts and typos
  • Kaabee
    SBR MVP
    • 01-21-06
    • 2482

    #2
    What do they mean by "the player has the advantage against the dealer and for that reason the value was $0"

    Your EV was about -11 or -12%. Don't know what kind of juice they charge but should be $4000+ payout
    Comment
    • littlekona
      SBR Hall of Famer
      • 11-19-15
      • 5242

      #3
      Wow..wonder what the edge is for them when u take 145 w a 20 vs a face card up...that big a player you risk 5k and play like that...hmmmm
      Comment
      • Kaabee
        SBR MVP
        • 01-21-06
        • 2482

        #4
        Should be about 155 without juice
        Comment
        • achuth
          SBR Rookie
          • 09-14-18
          • 43

          #5
          I have no idea... I usually take early payouts when I get more than 60% on what I think might be a losing hand.

          The table is notorious for making very good hands with 3/4/5/6.

          I really wanted to take the early payout that game. I actually have my chat with the pitboss from that specific time:


          The chat I had with Pitboss is also here:

          Welcome MoonyV2

          Welcome MaverickWins
          Welcome Web1
          Welcome Johnny
          Welcome Johnny
          Welcome alice
          Welcome Ohboy
          Welcome Opie
          MoonyV2: why no early payout was given on my 17?
          MoonyV2: I didn't double on my soft 17.
          Pitboss: MoonyV2 system will always show Early Payout. If you haven't see it please refresh your game browser to avoid that kind of issues
          Welcome tecmoboot
          MoonyV2: I usually see...and took early payouts
          JMoney: can't take eatly payout unless you had doubled @mooney
          MoonyV2: oh
          MoonyV2: but why
          MoonyV2: why is it?
          MoonyV2: that is wrong right
          MoonyV2: i didn't double
          JMoney: Have to follow basic strategy or you can't take payout
          Pitboss: MoonyV2 I remind you this is Black Jack Early Payout, please read the game rules
          Welcome lala
          Pitboss: Game is following Basic Strategy always, Early Payout is avaible each move
          MoonyV2: i didn't get it
          MoonyV2: wow
          MoonyV2: u busted babeeee
          MoonyV2: PITBOSS... i read rules
          MoonyV2: it said each hand gets an early payout option
          MoonyV2: i had almost 4000-5000 at stake please help
          Pitboss: MoonyV2 let me check
          JMoney tipped 1.00
          honeynut: disgusting
          honeynut:(puke)

          (puke)

          (puke)


          MoonyV2: Wait...even 3rd hand had 21.....but they don't push?
          MoonyV2: is it like dealer has bj at start
          Pitboss: Sir MoonyV2 on game J32162893 I can see on the records you did take Early Payout, you had $5000 on hand 3, took Early Payout with the 3rd card (17) dealer finished with (23)
          MoonyV2: that is not the game
          MoonyV2: The other game when Dealer made 18
          Pitboss: I got it now
          MoonyV2: and the second hand had 17
          Welcome jackson
          Pitboss: Yes I can see you stood with 17, dealer had 18, you had $5000 on hand 2
          Pitboss: Was it the game?
          MoonyV2: i wated early payut
          MoonyV2: yes sir
          MoonyV2: i wanted early payout
          MoonyV2: i commented that before dealer took 18
          Pitboss: Ok, I will escalate the situation to Customer Suppot with your claim
          MoonyV2: Yes please
          JMoney: Your money is gone moony
          Pitboss: Please keep this number as reference LC12413


          Additional info:

          You can clearly see that I also had take nearly payout with 17 earlier.

          Comment
          • achuth
            SBR Rookie
            • 09-14-18
            • 43

            #6
            Originally posted by Kaabee
            Should be about 155 without juice
            I don't know what Juice is... but it might be 155, I don't exactly remember now
            Comment
            • Kaabee
              SBR MVP
              • 01-21-06
              • 2482

              #7
              They probably do pay 145. I'm saying it's 155 if they don't charge premium or commission aka juice or vig
              Comment
              • achuth
                SBR Rookie
                • 09-14-18
                • 43

                #8
                Oh..there is no commission on blackjack.

                What we win is ours.

                At least that is the case with regular blackjack live tables in their live casino.
                Comment
                • Kaabee
                  SBR MVP
                  • 01-21-06
                  • 2482

                  #9
                  They charge a premium on the early payout. For example if math says your hand is worth $100 they will probably pay you $90
                  Comment
                  • GordonGecko2011
                    SBR High Roller
                    • 01-13-11
                    • 157

                    #10
                    Big Kahuna's playing $5000 hands. God Bless Ya
                    Comment
                    • 5918mike
                      SBR MVP
                      • 04-16-14
                      • 1885

                      #11
                      Where is the early payout version located?
                      Comment
                      • achuth
                        SBR Rookie
                        • 09-14-18
                        • 43

                        #12
                        in their live dealer option
                        Comment
                        • achuth
                          SBR Rookie
                          • 09-14-18
                          • 43

                          #13
                          I just chatted with Percy, their casino manager. He wants a video proof of not receiving an early payout
                          Comment
                          • achuth
                            SBR Rookie
                            • 09-14-18
                            • 43

                            #14
                            Official complaint with SBR has been submitted. My chat with Percy was in response to SBR's request to contact their management first. SBR asked me to chat with Becky or Tony, but they were not available and Percy chatted with me for 45 minutes.
                            Comment
                            • SBR Drew
                              SBR Hall of Famer
                              • 01-08-18
                              • 7351

                              #15
                              Thank you for submitting.
                              Comment
                              • relaaxx
                                SBR MVP
                                • 06-15-06
                                • 3281

                                #16
                                Comment
                                • achuth
                                  SBR Rookie
                                  • 09-14-18
                                  • 43

                                  #17
                                  Looks like they do not have early payout table available right now.....
                                  Comment
                                  • achuth
                                    SBR Rookie
                                    • 09-14-18
                                    • 43

                                    #18
                                    It was just available...and I had my friend play it. While I was beside him.




                                    here is the video proof that no early-payout was given when we do not double.
                                    Comment
                                    • achuth
                                      SBR Rookie
                                      • 09-14-18
                                      • 43

                                      #19
                                      Me and my friend use same computer, although we never play at once.

                                      Plus, we took permission from 5dimes.eu to do so.
                                      Last edited by achuth; 10-15-18, 01:18 PM. Reason: edited too to took
                                      Comment
                                      • achuth
                                        SBR Rookie
                                        • 09-14-18
                                        • 43

                                        #20
                                        Latest update from Percy, Casino Manager:

                                        I saw the video and clearly the 3rd hand didn't received the Early PO option because he didn't follow the basic strategy. Is very important you know, the basic strategy option is highlighted Bright Blue.

                                        I attached the images again so you can check them up.

                                        Let me know if you have further questions.
                                        Regards,



                                        Percy

                                        5Dimes Casino Manager
                                        Comment
                                        • achuth
                                          SBR Rookie
                                          • 09-14-18
                                          • 43

                                          #21
                                          I sent the following:

                                          How does that matter, Percy. For every hand, there must be a payout given according to your own rules.

                                          Till now you have been telling that you want proof of no early payout. Now you say that no early payout if we do not double. What is this? This is very misleading and wrong on your part.


                                          I think it is best for the SBR to review all this and make a decision. I also have record of all the rules.


                                          Thanks for your time.

                                          Achuth.



                                          I can take an early payout on 13 against a 10, but I cannot take early payout when I do not double? How is this possible? Please let me know.





                                          Comment
                                          • Optional
                                            Administrator
                                            • 06-10-10
                                            • 61434

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by achuth
                                            I sent the following:

                                            How does that matter, Percy. For every hand, there must be a payout given according to your own rules.

                                            Till now you have been telling that you want proof of no early payout. Now you say that no early payout if we do not double. What is this? This is very misleading and wrong on your part.


                                            I think it is best for the SBR to review all this and make a decision. I also have record of all the rules.


                                            Thanks for your time.

                                            Achuth.



                                            I can take an early payout on 13 against a 10, but I cannot take early payout when I do not double? How is this possible? Please let me know.






                                            Why do you keep saying you must Double to get a early payout option?

                                            I just checked the game myself and this is not the case, plus Percy is telling you that if you don't follow the suggested basic strategy calls you don't get the option. Nothing about having to double.

                                            Where are you getting this idea from?
                                            .
                                            Comment
                                            • stackz125
                                              SBR Hall of Famer
                                              • 01-03-16
                                              • 6191

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Optional
                                              Why do you keep saying you must Double to get a early payout option?

                                              I just checked the game myself and this is not the case, plus Percy is telling you that if you don't follow the suggested basic strategy calls you don't get the option. Nothing about having to double.

                                              Where are you getting this idea from?
                                              Im assuming basic strategy is to double on a 7 with a dealers 3 but to me that is not basic strategy...
                                              Comment
                                              • Optional
                                                Administrator
                                                • 06-10-10
                                                • 61434

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by stackz125

                                                Im assuming basic strategy is to double on a 7 with a dealers 3 but to me that is not basic strategy...
                                                The game tells you what it considers basic strategy by highlighting the 'correct' option.

                                                If you choose to ignore the advice, the dealer actually stills deals the cards according to basic strategy (so it does not affect other players if you go against it) but deals the card you dont want as a 'ghost card' which does not count.


                                                That aside, I still cannot see in the rules where it says player must follow basic strategy themselves to get the early payout option. As he is being told by Percy.

                                                Just a bit confused why he keeps mentioning having to double.
                                                .
                                                Comment
                                                • achuth
                                                  SBR Rookie
                                                  • 09-14-18
                                                  • 43

                                                  #25
                                                  The game doesn't offer the Early Payout option when you are not using basic strategy. That's something that should be more specific on our rules. We will add this right now to the game and website rules.
                                                  As a compensation for this situation, I can offer you a second bonus program. Please contact me via Livehelp to get this set.

                                                  This situation was already reviewed by Becky and that's her decision too. We apologize for the inconvenience.

                                                  Best regards,



                                                  Percy

                                                  5Dimes Casino Manager


                                                  This is the latest I heard from him. I will contact him later tonight or tomorrow and discuss the option they are gonna give me.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • Kaabee
                                                    SBR MVP
                                                    • 01-21-06
                                                    • 2482

                                                    #26
                                                    You never double 7 vs a 3, wtf are they talking about?

                                                    Their table is here: https://www.5dimes.eu/ldc_strategy_bjep.htm
                                                    Comment
                                                    • trytrytry
                                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                                      • 03-13-06
                                                      • 23649

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Kaabee
                                                      You never double 7 vs a 3, wtf are they talking about?

                                                      Their table is here: https://www.5dimes.eu/ldc_strategy_bjep.htm
                                                      5dimes seems confused about the confusion they have caused this player.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • achuth
                                                        SBR Rookie
                                                        • 09-14-18
                                                        • 43

                                                        #28
                                                        I actually had soft 17... not a 7. Sorry for the misinformation. My communication with 5dimes always has soft 17 as my hand.

                                                        My conversation/chat with pitboss also has soft 17 there
                                                        Comment
                                                        • Kaabee
                                                          SBR MVP
                                                          • 01-21-06
                                                          • 2482

                                                          #29
                                                          Well if the rules say you can't take early payout if you deviate from basic strategy then you have no case
                                                          Comment
                                                          • achuth
                                                            SBR Rookie
                                                            • 09-14-18
                                                            • 43

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by Kaabee
                                                            Well if the rules say you can't take early payout if you deviate from basic strategy then you have no case
                                                            That is exactly what is not written.
                                                            Comment
                                                            • scsports
                                                              SBR High Roller
                                                              • 07-18-11
                                                              • 174

                                                              #31
                                                              Tony isn't available. He was kidnapped 3-4 weeks ago.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • icon
                                                                SBR MVP
                                                                • 01-09-18
                                                                • 3441

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by stackz125
                                                                Im assuming basic strategy is to double on a 7 with a dealers 3 but to me that is not basic strategy...
                                                                Correct, doubling on a 7 with a dealer showing a 3 is not basic strategy.
                                                                Comment
                                                                • achuth
                                                                  SBR Rookie
                                                                  • 09-14-18
                                                                  • 43

                                                                  #33
                                                                  5 Dimes tony Kidnapped ?

                                                                  Originally posted by scsports
                                                                  Tony isn't available. He was kidnapped 3-4 weeks ago.
                                                                  Whatt?
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • achuth
                                                                    SBR Rookie
                                                                    • 09-14-18
                                                                    • 43

                                                                    #34
                                                                    SOLVED

                                                                    I got almost $2000 bonus credited to my account in form of 21% Rebate program.
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • Optional
                                                                      Administrator
                                                                      • 06-10-10
                                                                      • 61434

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by achuth
                                                                      SOLVED

                                                                      I got almost $2000 bonus credited to my account in form of 21% Rebate program.
                                                                      Great news.
                                                                      .
                                                                      Comment
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