U.S. Government & Online Sportsbooks Question

[Isaiah]

What prevents governmental agencies such as the IRS from hacking every online sports book site and obtaining names and the amounts of deposits/payouts/wagering of citizens and then using that information to prosecute them if they so desire?

And please don't tell me the sites are secure because no site is unhackable.

Would like to here from any attorneys or others who know what they are talking about and might have a credible explanation.

I've heard such things as web pages aren't admissible as evidence in a court of law or hacking personal information on individuals from sites located outside the USA is illegal etc.

Have no idea if any of this is true so just asking. Insights anyone?

[MoMoneyMoVaughn]

I would imagine the cost of prosecuting people is a serious barrier.

Also information must be obtained through legal channels or it remains inadmissible in court.

[Isaiah]

I would imagine the cost of prosecuting people is a serious barrier.

Also information must be obtained through legal channels or it remains inadmissible in court.

If they obtained a warrant it would be legal would it not?

[Hareeba!]

My understanding is that it is not a crime (even for Americans) to bet with online sportsbooks so no prosecutions could come of it.

[Isaiah]

My understanding is that it is not a crime (even for Americans) to bet with online sportsbooks so no prosecutions could come of it.

The wagering itself isn't illegal but the winnings are taxable (enter the IRS). Plus the government could play the wire "fraud" or money laundering card if they really want to get you even if it is BS. Stack the charges to get you plead guilty in exchange for dropping the bogus charges. Happens everyday in the USA.

There are so many laws on the books covering so many areas it is possible for U.S. Attorneys to prosecute individuals any number of ways if they really want to get you. Sad but true.

[MoMoneyMoVaughn]

If they obtained a warrant it would be legal would it not?

Once again the cost would be significant.

Also, if they are obtaining a warrant, then hacking of any sort is unnecessary.

[Isaiah]

Once again the cost would be significant.

Also, if they are obtaining a warrant, then hacking of any sort is unnecessary.

Hacking would be necessary because I don't think foreign entities have any legal obligation to honor the warrant because they are outside the jurisdiction of the US government.

This is why I would like to hear from an attorney. None of us really know what we are talking about.

[Hareeba!]

The wagering itself isn't illegal but the winnings are taxable (enter the IRS). Plus the government could play the wire "fraud" or money laundering card if they really want to get you even if it is BS. Stack the charges to get you plead guilty in exchange for dropping the bogus charges. Happens everyday in the USA.

There are so many laws on the books covering so many area it is possible for U.S. Attorneys to prosecute individuals any number of ways if they really want to get you. Sad but true.

I don't see anything worthwhile in it for them. 98% of punters lose so how much tax might they collect from the winning 2%?
The cost of going through it all wouldn't be warranted.

[Isaiah]

I don't see anything worthwhile in it for them. 98% of punters lose so how much tax might they collect from the winning 2%?
The cost of going through it all wouldn't be warranted.

Your numbers are incorrect, most gamblers lose but not 98% of them. Nonetheless, I understand the point you are making. But I think you would be surprised how much, or better stated, how little, it takes to get the attention of the IRS.

They've been known to spend more on prosecuting a case than the amount of taxes they recovered. Sometimes it's all about scoring public relation points and scaring the hell out of the rest of us so we toe the mark.

[Isaiah]

It would also be interesting to hear from anyone in upper management of an offshore book. If they have encountered any intrusions from U.S. governmental agencies and if so what transpired?

[Optional]

Edward Snowden already exposed that they dont need to hack anything if they want to collect this sort of info.

[Isaiah]

Edward Snowden already exposed that they dont need to hack anything if they want to collect this sort of info.

Semantics but your point is on the mark.

So the question remains, is the information they have on individuals gambling, sending and receiving money to offshore books admissible evidence in a U.S. court of law?

[A4K]

What prevents governmental agencies such as the IRS from hacking every online sports book site and obtaining names and the amounts of deposits/payouts/wagering of citizens and then using that information to prosecute them if they so desire?

And please don't tell me the sites are secure because no site is unhackable.

Would like to here from any attorneys or others who know what they are talking about and might have a credible explanation.

I've heard such things as web pages aren't admissible as evidence in a court of law or hacking personal information on individuals from sites located outside the USA is illegal etc.

Have no idea if any of this is true so just asking. Insights anyone?

Everything you need to know is on this guy's site. By the way.... the government has much bigger fish to fry than offshore gaming.

[Optional]

I'd only be guessing too.

But if they wanted to make an example of someone I am sure they would find a way to make whatever evidence they had look legal.

Personally I think it's a tactical decision to not attack players. They already know it's a weird double standard with Vegas and when all they really want to do is keep the status quo, no need to rock the boat and give pro-gambling people something to rally support over.

[relaaxx]

the US government does what it wants whenever it wants to anyone. the US government does what it wants whenever it wants to any country. it will destroy one way or another anyone or any country who fails to submit. it's power and influence in the world should not be taken lightly. powerful countries and their leaders have tried to mock it's power.

so they just don't want to bother with this small shit more than they have already.

[wrongturn]

Yeah, don't worry about this chicken shit stuff. If you do the booking then it is different. But if you are player and just in a blue moon that you win too much, you need to worry about the books you play at, not whatever the government.

[MoMoneyMoVaughn]

Hacking would be necessary because I don't think foreign entities have any legal obligation to honor the warrant because they are outside the jurisdiction of the US government.

This is why I would like to hear from an attorney. None of us really know what we are talking about.

Well the IRS, assuming that is who is coming after you, would have to work with the law enforcement agencies whose jurisdiction the book falls under.

I would assume the cost and time necessary to coordinate an international operation such as this would be considered too much time and money for something that isn't human/drag trafficking, child pornography, murder etc.

[TheMoneyShot]

What prevents governmental agencies such as the IRS from hacking every online sports book site and obtaining names and the amounts of deposits/payouts/wagering of citizens and then using that information to prosecute them if they so desire?

And please don't tell me the sites are secure because no site is unhackable.

Would like to here from any attorneys or others who know what they are talking about and might have a credible explanation.

I've heard such things as web pages aren't admissible as evidence in a court of law or hacking personal information on individuals from sites located outside the USA is illegal etc.

Have no idea if any of this is true so just asking. Insights anyone?

Isaiah - Interesting questions.... and we've all pondered this at one point or another. Here's my opinion...

1. The government is not interested in the "user." It would use all it's resources to knock down the "Ring Leader." If they felt he could be knocked out.

2. The government understands majority of the people lose when gambling. I'm sure there's a 5-10% percentile out there that do wager for "business purposes" and win more than the rest of us. But those individuals have always been "big shots" and I'm sure they have C.P.A.'s handling the money coming in and money going out.

3. Making a wager via internet to offshore isn't illegal. Look it up. Scare tactics? Yes. There's not one law that states it's illegal.

To realistically take down one "user" and have a trial for that one "user" would technically cost the IRS/Government around $20,000-$25,000 in legal fees.... possibly more. So in all essence... that said "user" better be worth/owing the government over $100,000+ in penalties and fees. Otherwise it's not worth it to them to nail you.

[jjgold]

its chump change for one

[Wilfred]

They already have all this info. The government doesn't care about us betting, because it's not illegal. They only care if you don't pay taxes on your significant winnings.

[rangerz2478]

I don't see anything worthwhile in it for them. 98% of punters lose so how much tax might they collect from the winning 2%?
The cost of going through it all wouldn't be warranted.

The 2% you speak of who win consistently are likely in the "professional" category and they are getting the taxes from them. (or should be)

[relaaxx]

don't brag on tv and you should be fine(wsex)

[superhans]

Once they've won the war on drugs, and the war on terror be prepared for the war on gambling

Luckily the first two wars are unwinnable so you should be just fine

[5918mike]

I'm sure there is a reason it has never been done yet.

[InsiderHer]

No one except Sheldon Adelson cares about illegal sports betting in America. I have never heard of a single person being prosecuted for betting offshore. American's pay their tax and get very little in return, why not let em blow off a little steam...and in the grand scheme of things, its tiny money anyway. Hacking is usually traceable, how would that hold up in a court of law? What's your evidence, oh we hacked into the database and saw what he was doing. Did he give you permission, ah...no. Case closed, next!

[Isaiah]

No one except Sheldon Adelson cares about illegal sports betting in America. I have never heard of a single person being prosecuted for betting offshore. American's pay their tax and get very little in return, why not let em blow off a little steam...and in the grand scheme of things, its tiny money anyway. Hacking is usually traceable, how would that hold up in a court of law? What's your evidence, oh we hacked into the database and saw what he was doing. Did he give you permission, ah...no. Case closed, next!

The last part of your reply is what I was after. Can evidence obtained by hacking an out of country website
be used by the prosecution in court? I suspect that it is. Again, unless you are an attorney I doubt either of us know what we are talking about.

I wish an attorney would weigh in but I doubt that any are seeing this thread.

[Hu$tle]

I would love this, my rap sheet would be stupendous. I could have court documents claiming how much a winner I am