Pinnacle Problems!!!

**Snowball** · 02-04-13, 07:00 PM

no, their site went down.
you have no recourse, your inability to hedge is not a mistake on their part.

**Pareto** · 02-04-13, 07:10 PM

You dont have a case.

What do you want Pinanacle to do? Pay all the people who were thinking about betting the ravens but couldnt because the site went down?

I am sure they will find many people who would have wanted to bet the ravens, and not so many who wanted to bet the 49'ers.

**SportsMushroom** · 02-04-13, 07:36 PM

yeah you just got unlucky, although pinnacle seems to be slipping lately, been down on more than one occassion lately

**byronbb** · 02-04-13, 09:51 PM

Sick beat. Ya the -165 ML SIA hung all week was a pretty huge arb. Doesn't pinny take phone in bets??

**michael777** · 02-04-13, 10:00 PM

mlansky,you have no case

**mlansky** · 02-04-13, 11:19 PM

byronbb,

Thanks for the reply, yea I know..I still feel sick about it. No there's no number on Pinnacle's site to call in to take phone in bets. All their customer service is done via email (which is extremely frustrating). Do you look for arbs on occasion?

**byronbb** · 02-05-13, 12:03 AM

Not really into arbing. Maybe get some $$ into matchbook. They were dealing BAL +194 at kickoff and live lines throughout the game.

**caramba** · 02-05-13, 08:29 AM

As others have said, you have no case here. As a fellow arber, I can understand your frustration with Pinny going down before you were able to hedge the bet. Am I right in thinking that you were not able to place the Ravens bet before Pinny's crash and you knew your Ravens bet hadn't been accepted? If so, the best idea would have been to look into options to bet on Ravens elsewhere before the game and bet with another book incase Pinny remained down.
If Pinny crashed just as you were about to place the bet, leaving you in a position where you didn't know if the bet had been accepted or not, that's more tricky of course. If so I would have waited until Pinny came back, to check if the bet had been accepted or not, then act from there, by hedging my bet with Pinny or whichever book had the best odds at the time. I noticed too that Pinny was up after the 1st quarter and offered non-updated odds (bad line) so not a good idea to hedge with them in that scenario. I can understand that it's not easy to think clearly in that situation though.

**Pinocchio** · 02-05-13, 12:02 PM

Pinnacle had an incorrect live line during Superbowl? May I ask what was the score when you made the bet and what were the (apparently incorrect) odds?

**mlansky** · 02-05-13, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by caramba

As others have said, you have no case here. As a fellow arber, I can understand your frustration with Pinny going down before you were able to hedge the bet. Am I right in thinking that you were not able to place the Ravens bet before Pinny's crash and you knew your Ravens bet hadn't been accepted? If so, the best idea would have been to look into options to bet on Ravens elsewhere before the game and bet with another book incase Pinny remained down.
If Pinny crashed just as you were about to place the bet, leaving you in a position where you didn't know if the bet had been accepted or not, that's more tricky of course. If so I would have waited until Pinny came back, to check if the bet had been accepted or not, then act from there, by hedging my bet with Pinny or whichever book had the best odds at the time. I noticed too that Pinny was up after the 1st quarter and offered non-updated odds (bad line) so not a good idea to hedge with them in that scenario. I can understand that it's not easy to think clearly in that situation though.

Caramba,

Thank you for your reply. It is greatly appreciated. It is extremely extremely extremely frustrating since this was my first arb ever. I had been researching and looking into sports arbitrage for months prior to this occurring. Even for this arb, I made sure and quadruple-checked everyting to make sure what I was looking at was correct and accurate.

I know that I should have had or used an alternate sportsbook to make the hedge, but I have never had a problem with Pinnacle going down or anything like this. I mean if the site had ever been down since I was a member, it was for 5 minutes at the most and that's VERY overstating it already.

You're right, it wasn't easy thinking clearly in that situation since I was just scrambling to at least get half of my wager back by wagering +3 (-108) on the Ravens. I had wanted to go into the game knowing that I didn't have $2500 hanging out to dry on the 49ers. I knew it was going to be a close Super Bowl and any team could have won which is why I arbed this wager in the first place. It's not like I waited until the last minute to try and get the best price on Pinnacle. I tried to make the wager on the Ravens at around 4:15 pm CST. So like an hour and 15 minutes before kickoff. I thought that the site was just slow because of all the traffic due to everyone wagering on the Super Bowl. I thought for sure Pinnacle would be up and running before kickoff because like I said as long as I have been with them, the longest the site has ever been down for me was maybe 5 minutes at most. So out of all of those times and all the wagers that I have placed using Pinnacle, out of all those countless time, this has to happen to me as I'm making my first arb wager where I just need Pinnacle to just be up for 30 seconds..if that. I know that I should have gotten a friend or someone to open a sportsbook account at another sportsbook to place the wager for me, but I thought Pinnacle would be back up before game time. I had made some NBA wagers earlier in the day on Super Bowl Sunday and everything was fine.

I just don't understand how could/can one of the largest sportsbooks online not be prepared for something like this? Doesn't the company take precautions and measures against something like this from happening..especially on the day of the Super Bowl? Aren’t there safeguards in place that could have prevented (something as common as) a DoS attack from occuring? These are just some of the questions that were running through my mind during the Super Bowl when I couldn't log in or access my account during one of the biggest if not the biggest sporting event in the world.

Regards,

mlansky

**statdude** · 02-05-13, 02:55 PM

Alternate URL's (5dimes / propbet / 5dimes mirror etc )

**HeeeHAWWWW** · 02-05-13, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by mlansky

I just don't understand how could/can one of the largest sportsbooks online not be prepared for something like this? Doesn't the company take precautions and measures against something like this from happening..especially on the day of the Super Bowl? Aren’t there safeguards in place that could have prevented (something as common as) a DoS attack from occuring? These are just some of the questions that were running through my mind during the Super Bowl when I couldn't log in or access my account during one of the biggest if not the biggest sporting event in the world.

It's pretty hard for anyone to defend against these sort of enormous DOS attacks - the criminals doing them will have botnets of tens of thousands of computers under their control, spread all over the world. It's probably also made worse by their location on a small island, there won't be a lot of redundancy in the connections. If this was in the US or Europe, it'd probably be much harder to knock out the links.

**indio** · 02-05-13, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by mlansky

Caramba,

Thank you for your reply. It is greatly appreciated. It is extremely extremely extremely frustrating since this was my first arb ever. I had been researching and looking into sports arbitrage for months prior to this occurring. Even for this arb, I made sure and quadruple-checked everyting to make sure what I was looking at was correct and accurate.

I know that I should have had or used an alternate sportsbook to make the hedge, but I have never had a problem with Pinnacle going down or anything like this. I mean if the site had ever been down since I was a member, it was for 5 minutes at the most and that's VERY overstating it already.

You're right, it wasn't easy thinking clearly in that situation since I was just scrambling to at least get half of my wager back by wagering +3 (-108) on the Ravens. I had wanted to go into the game knowing that I didn't have $2500 hanging out to dry on the 49ers. I knew it was going to be a close Super Bowl and any team could have won which is why I arbed this wager in the first place. It's not like I waited until the last minute to try and get the best price on Pinnacle. I tried to make the wager on the Ravens at around 4:15 pm CST. So like an hour and 15 minutes before kickoff. I thought that the site was just slow because of all the traffic due to everyone wagering on the Super Bowl. I thought for sure Pinnacle would be up and running before kickoff because like I said as long as I have been with them, the longest the site has ever been down for me was maybe 5 minutes at most. So out of all of those times and all the wagers that I have placed using Pinnacle, out of all those countless time, this has to happen to me as I'm making my first arb wager where I just need Pinnacle to just be up for 30 seconds..if that. I know that I should have gotten a friend or someone to open a sportsbook account at another sportsbook to place the wager for me, but I thought Pinnacle would be back up before game time. I had made some NBA wagers earlier in the day on Super Bowl Sunday and everything was fine.

I just don't understand how could/can one of the largest sportsbooks online not be prepared for something like this? Doesn't the company take precautions and measures against something like this from happening..especially on the day of the Super Bowl? Aren’t there safeguards in place that could have prevented (something as common as) a DoS attack from occuring? These are just some of the questions that were running through my mind during the Super Bowl when I couldn't log in or access my account during one of the biggest if not the biggest sporting event in the world.

Regards,

mlansky

Instead of complaining incessantly, you should be somewhat grateful. Why, you might ask, would I say something that seems so illogical? Because you just got a lesson and $2500 is fairly cheap in the larger scope of things. If you want to be a gambler (and that includes any investment/profit or loss scenario like stocks, currency, property, etc), you need to understand variance and variables. This includes analyzing every what if scenario, it's probabilities, and what your plan is if that particular scenario unfolds. Sometimes, the smart decision is to do nothing in regards to a scenario that is low percentage, but you still must be smart enough to understand that the chance of it occurring is possible, and are you prepared to deal with the consequences? A simplified example would be a millionaire that keeps all $1 million in one bank account. Although the chances of his bank suddenly failing is remote, he's only Federally insured for up to $200,000 if that bank fails, so either he is willing to accept an $800,000 loss on that scenario, or he can spread his million out at other places to prevent that bank failing from costing him $800,000.

Not only was Pinnacle going down a possibility, your internet going down, your electricity provider having a problem and shutting off, your mouse breaking, your computer freezing, etc, these were also very small likelihood but possible events. Were you prepared for any of them? Did you have a plan if any occurred, or were you willing to forgo anything in regards to a .003% chance? Maybe one day in the future, you'll have a $25,000 arb, and this time, you'll be better prepared to insure yourself against a similar problem.

As far as Pinnacle being prepared for a DOS attack, I'm sure they were prepared. But criminal hackers are ALWAYS inventing new ways of attack, and it's a cat and mouse game that all companies are suspect to. Annonymous can hack into Federal Government databases, so don't you think highly trained and funded Jewish mafia can invent a new way to deliver a DOS attack on a bookmaker? Pinnacle may be big in the gambling world, but they're still small potatoes in the business world in general, and if powerful governments with almost unlimited resources can be hacked with constantly new methods, you better believe Pinnacle can too. Once they threatened Pinnacle with a DOS attack looking for a payoff, and were refused, then Pinny going down was a likely event. Another small but possible scenario is that Pinnacle went down intentionally and blamed it on a DOS attack. While this possibility is remote, it cannot be discounted, as one never truly knows.

I keep money in many places, some of those being offshore. While I trust the places where they are, I'm experienced enough to know that ANY of these balances can go POOF at anytime for many reasons. It will piss me off it that happens, but I understand it can occur, and I'm not going to be wiped out if it happens at one place. Not only does this include offshore shops, this includes banks, coins, and other more "traditional" places that are all suspect to quick ruin.

Even the value of your Federal Reserve Notes are not completely immune from a fast devaluation, making your savings almost worthless. Sure, that possibility is remote, but not as remote as you might think. Do you have any protection if Federal Reserve Notes collapse?

In regards to your last sentence surprise at Pinny going down "on the biggest sporting event of the year", when analyzed properly, this is actually one of the most highly likely days of a DOS attack. SuperBowl, World Cup final, Champions League finals, are all mathmatically more likely to succumb to an attack that just a random day.

**wrongturn** · 02-05-13, 05:38 PM

mlansky, If SF ended up winning the game, do you plan to ask Pinny to take out the amount that you would have bet on BAL?

**Vreston** · 02-05-13, 06:30 PM

I personally started using Pinnacle about a month ago. From what I had read, they were supposed to be one of if not "the" best online sportsbook. I wasn't expecting such a blackout and then for them not to send at least a message to my inbox explaining or something.

**got15plus1** · 02-05-13, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by wrongturn

mlansky, If SF ended up winning the game, do you plan to ask Pinny to take out the amount that you would have bet on BAL?

This.

**mlansky** · 02-05-13, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by indio

Instead of complaining incessantly, you should be somewhat grateful. Why, you might ask, would I say something that seems so illogical? Because you just got a lesson and $2500 is fairly cheap in the larger scope of things. If you want to be a gambler (and that includes any investment/profit or loss scenario like stocks, currency, property, etc), you need to understand variance and variables. This includes analyzing every what if scenario, it's probabilities, and what your plan is if that particular scenario unfolds. Sometimes, the smart decision is to do nothing in regards to a scenario that is low percentage, but you still must be smart enough to understand that the chance of it occurring is possible, and are you prepared to deal with the consequences? A simplified example would be a millionaire that keeps all $1 million in one bank account. Although the chances of his bank suddenly failing is remote, he's only Federally insured for up to $200,000 if that bank fails, so either he is willing to accept an $800,000 loss on that scenario, or he can spread his million out at other places to prevent that bank failing from costing him $800,000.

Not only was Pinnacle going down a possibility, your internet going down, your electricity provider having a problem and shutting off, your mouse breaking, your computer freezing, etc, these were also very small likelihood but possible events. Were you prepared for any of them? Did you have a plan if any occurred, or were you willing to forgo anything in regards to a .003% chance? Maybe one day in the future, you'll have a $25,000 arb, and this time, you'll be better prepared to insure yourself against a similar problem.

As far as Pinnacle being prepared for a DOS attack, I'm sure they were prepared. But criminal hackers are ALWAYS inventing new ways of attack, and it's a cat and mouse game that all companies are suspect to. Annonymous can hack into Federal Government databases, so don't you think highly trained and funded Jewish mafia can invent a new way to deliver a DOS attack on a bookmaker? Pinnacle may be big in the gambling world, but they're still small potatoes in the business world in general, and if powerful governments with almost unlimited resources can be hacked with constantly new methods, you better believe Pinnacle can too. Once they threatened Pinnacle with a DOS attack looking for a payoff, and were refused, then Pinny going down was a likely event. Another small but possible scenario is that Pinnacle went down intentionally and blamed it on a DOS attack. While this possibility is remote, it cannot be discounted, as one never truly knows.

I keep money in many places, some of those being offshore. While I trust the places where they are, I'm experienced enough to know that ANY of these balances can go POOF at anytime for many reasons. It will piss me off it that happens, but I understand it can occur, and I'm not going to be wiped out if it happens at one place. Not only does this include offshore shops, this includes banks, coins, and other more "traditional" places that are all suspect to quick ruin.

Even the value of your Federal Reserve Notes are not completely immune from a fast devaluation, making your savings almost worthless. Sure, that possibility is remote, but not as remote as you might think. Do you have any protection if Federal Reserve Notes collapse?

In regards to your last sentence surprise at Pinny going down "on the biggest sporting event of the year", when analyzed properly, this is actually one of the most highly likely days of a DOS attack. SuperBowl, World Cup final, Champions League finals, are all mathmatically more likely to succumb to an attack that just a random day.

indio,

I know and see what you are getting at, but you're taking it to far greater lengths. I do think that way in the grand scheme of things. I am complaining yes, but I'm also stating facts about my awful experience.. I know nothing is for certain, but what I do know is Pinnacle has never been down for more than 5 minutes since I have been wagering there (and like I said that's being generous). Then all of a sudden they are down for hours. I mean how unlucky/unfortunate can I be? I have learned a lesson, but it's not like I just jumped into this head first even though you're probably thinking that I am or did. It just turned out to be a really bad situation.

For the very reason that it is one of the biggest sporting events of the year, Pinnacle should have safeguards in place and have taken precautionary measures in anticipation of something like that occurring. It is a remote point now as you said we'll never truly know the 'real' reason why the site was down. Maybe there was just too much action coming in on the Ravens, so they shut it down and blamed it on a DoS attack.

Regards,

mlansky

**mlansky** · 02-05-13, 10:28 PM

wrongturn,

I would be more than fine with that since that was my initial plan all along and from the beginning. I know whatever I may or may not scrutinize me for saying it and call BS on me and that's fine. I can honestly say that I would accept that 120%. I would accept that 'bet' unlike Pinnacle not accepting my wager when I was just trying to get half of my wager back. If the site is experiencing a DoS attack like Pinnacle claims, why are you still accepting wagers and leading me to believe that my wager is being honored? Wrongturn, I'm not directing this at you, but merely speaking out loud.

**mlansky** · 02-05-13, 10:32 PM

Pinocchio,

I think the score was 14-3, but I'm not 100% on that since I was caught up trying to get on Pinnacle's website. The live odds that I got were Bal +3 (-108). But at that point I didn't really care what the live odds were, since I was scrambling to make any wager to hedge.

**Emily_Haines** · 02-05-13, 10:42 PM

If you were over exposed you should have just hedged out at SIA or at least made an attempt to find Pinny phone number and phone in a wager there.

**PassTheDutchie** · 02-05-13, 11:31 PM

Pinnacle does not take bets over the phone. Unless you are big bettor and know someone at Pinnacle.

**katstale** · 02-06-13, 07:13 AM

anyone with pinnacle problems this early morning?

**GoneWrong** · 02-06-13, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by katstale

anyone with pinnacle problems this early morning?

currently am unable to access the site

**filbertstreet** · 02-06-13, 07:18 AM

Yep down again

**wrongturn** · 02-06-13, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by mlansky

wrongturn,

I would be more than fine with that since that was my initial plan all along and from the beginning. I know whatever I may or may not scrutinize me for saying it and call BS on me and that's fine. I can honestly say that I would accept that 120%. I would accept that 'bet' unlike Pinnacle not accepting my wager when I was just trying to get half of my wager back. If the site is experiencing a DoS attack like Pinnacle claims, why are you still accepting wagers and leading me to believe that my wager is being honored? Wrongturn, I'm not directing this at you, but merely speaking out loud.

You should tell Pinnacle about this, and maybe they will have a change of heart. I am sure they will be amazed such player even exists.

**mlansky** · 02-06-13, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by wrongturn

You should tell Pinnacle about this, and maybe they will have a change of heart. I am sure they will be amazed such player even exists.

wrongturn,

Maybe so and I would tell them that. I am waiting on a response from a manager/supervisor from Pinnacle to whom my last email was being forwarded/sent to one. I would be more than fine with this since this was initially my objective all along. If all I wanted was to wager $2500 on the 49ers then I wouldn't be in this situation.

mlansky

**indio** · 02-06-13, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by mlansky

indio,
For the very reason that it is one of the biggest sporting events of the year, Pinnacle should have safeguards in place and have taken precautionary measures in anticipation of something like that occurring.

I'm sure they had plenty of safeguards in place for methods of DOS attacks that they were familiar with, however, you need to understand that high-tech savy people are constantly creating new ways to counteract and breakthrough defenses. It's a constant cat and mouse game that unfortunately, the criminals always have an edge at with new methods. A lot of brilliant tech people, who have been taught and trained at the very best places, including inner government, like money too. Some of them will offer their services for the highest bidders, and often, those are high up connected criminals. I'm no tech genius, but it would seem that if the extortionists had a new method of attack, impervious to known DOS defenses, they would pick a huge betting day like the SuperBowl to unleash it.

Sorry you had to go through it, but we all do in some form or another if you play this game long enough. You'll get over it. Good luck to you.

**dealer wins** · 02-06-13, 02:50 PM

1st arb and you are betting $2500, and have no backup book/exchange to cover site outages (Which happen a hell of a lot LOL)

You will last 2 minutes at this rate!!

**the sink** · 02-06-13, 04:48 PM

Fatal Error on www1.pinnaclesports.com

**horja1** · 02-06-13, 04:55 PM

working ok for me

**suicidekings** · 02-06-13, 05:09 PM

502 Bad Gateway

Bloody annoying...

**Dunderfisk** · 03-24-13, 05:39 PM

I think they have some kind of delay.

It is so fkking annoying. It takes 2-10 seconds to place bets on 24hpoker, Betsson, Unibet, Marathon, WilliamHill

and it takes more than 1 minute to place a bet on Pinnacle!

And most of the time you have to re-send the bet since odds has changed, so placing a bet takes usually 5 minutes, snd then the match has already started. Before I thought Pinny was the best. But it is really annoying, that it takes minutes to place a bet.

WHAT THE FK IS GOING ON? I AM QUITE SURE THEY HAVE SOME KIND OF DELAY.

**Dunderfisk** · 03-24-13, 05:44 PM

They are the most famous bookie for serious players. But they can not spend money to pay a programmer so that you can bet without leaving the actual sports page.

So bad, it is almost insane.

**Smithers** · 03-24-13, 06:09 PM

Asian Site or Mobile Site are a lot faster then the old site. Old site is slow