Time to get serious about JonBenet Ramsey.... Let's do this!!!

[TheMoneyShot]

why would the parents kill the daughter and not the son? just because she wet the bed? c'mon now, if that were the case, all kids would get murdered by their parents. is there a kid that never wet the bed? wtf?

Kahn... the entire situation is nuts. I could actually see her mom doing this to her. The husband seems like the type to back his wife. Fits the personality.

All it takes is a bad day... maybe the mother was a pill popper? Anyone can flip over the dumbest thing.

What I do know... parents don't give statements to police like how these imbeciles did. I didn't see any tears. No... OMG my daughter is dead!!!!! I can't believe this!!!!

It's like they really didn't give a fuk.

[Ghenghis Kahn]

allegedly, the parents didn't want to talk to the cops due to the fact they were targeted as the main suspects from the get-go. hence, they hired their own private investigator.

who the fukk knows... but i'd be pissed too if the cops had tunnel vision on the investigation.

[Auto Donk]

Looks like it was Michae Helgoth.... even had the right boots... and a stun gun that matches the marks on JBR

he was apparentely murdered, though the cops, in typical bungling cop fashion, erroneously ruled it a suicide.....

probably wacked by his accomplice.... who could still be charged if they find him.... with two murders, JBR's and Helgoth's

Here's the dumbass Helgoth:



case closed..........

[jtoler]

Helgoth's dna didnt match. Dont recall them saying if "Santa's" or Oleeva's dna matched or not. Im guessing they didnt. If the accomplice theory is somehow correct with Helgoth maybe the dna matched that person. Lot of suspects. Dont recall how many people were in the house if it was just mom, husband, daughter and maybe brother? Weird, big house one would expect lots of people probably there on Christmas to intrude with the sole purpose of rape and murder? Seems they should have found out who did this.

[d2bets]

Helgoth's dna didnt match. Dont recall them saying if "Santa's" or Oleeva's dna matched or not. Im guessing they didnt. If the accomplice theory is somehow correct with Helgoth maybe the dna matched that person. Lot of suspects. Dont recall how many people were in the house if it was just mom, husband, daughter and maybe brother? Weird, big house one would expect lots of people probably there on Christmas to intrude with the sole purpose of rape and murder? Seems they should have found out who did this.

If you are excluding people based on DNA, then you have to exclude the Ramseys. We know that there is unidentified. Ramsey accusers have pointed to that potentially being innocent. I don't think I'd exclude anyone here solely based on DNA.

I want to look into Santa more. I know they said his alibi checked out, but I don't trust this police dept. Everything else was very suspicious with him. He told JonBenet two days before that he'd visit her after Christmas with a special gift? It would explain how someone could have gotten her downstairs quietly to eat pineapple. She would have gone to the basement with him. He knew the house.

[jtoler]

If you are excluding people based on DNA, then you have to exclude the Ramseys. We know that there is unidentified. Ramsey accusers have pointed to that potentially being innocent. I don't think I'd exclude anyone here solely based on DNA.

I want to look into Santa more. I know they said his alibi checked out, but I don't trust this police dept. Everything else was very suspicious with him. He told JonBenet two days before that he'd visit her after Christmas with a special gift? It would explain how someone could have gotten her downstairs quietly to eat pineapple. She would have gone to the basement with him. He knew the house.

Well they said a mixture of dna with her blood, I dont recall them saying what kind of dna was mixed in. Dont recall them talking about prints or fibers either. No I wouldnt exclude anyone for her rape unless they said exactly what dna was found. When interrogated by that familiar faced looking guy Ive seen before, I assume maybe that was years later, not sure, the father kept saying maybe that "Santa" guy with the pineapples and stuff, Im wondering if the father was there how he didnt know who could have been in his house during those couple days. Oleeva was such a creepy something, making a shrine and all that, just plain weird. "Santa" creepy as heck too.

[Auto Donk]

JBR gave Creepy Santa Fuk a tour of their house at their Xmas party, where CSF was playing the role of Santa. JBR took CSF to her room, showed it to him, and showed him the basement. Many believe CSF is the person who told JBR that she would receive something special from him "after X-mas."

very compelling lead that the BPD, in typical police fashion, fukked up given their tunnel vision focus on the parents

[jtoler]

JBR gave Creepy Santa Fuk a tour of their house at their Xmas party, where CSF was playing the role of Santa. JBR took CSF to her room, showed it to him, and showed him the basement. Many believe CSF is the person who told JBR that she would receive something special from him "after X-mas."

very compelling lead that the BPD, in typical police fashion, fukked up given their tunnel vision focus on the parents

Ahh ok, a tour of the house. I thought he was a family friend? Or maybe he wasnt just lived nearby? Yea I hate cases where they put entirely too much focus on one person when there are others. "Santa" indeed is a real suspect. I just never followed too closely to see how he could have been alone and away with her for a period of time. Let's say he did it, so they knew he was there alone with her downstairs while they were upstairs, he rapes and kills her and leaves? Did the parents see him to the door as you would a normal guest or did they just find her and he was gone already. Because if the latter if I were the parents he's the first and only whom I would have suspected, but they didnt initially point a finger to him I dont think. Maybe Ill go and look for the official timeline of how this all went down.

[d2bets]

Ahh ok, a tour of the house. I thought he was a family friend? Or maybe he wasnt just lived nearby? Yea I hate cases where they put entirely too much focus on one person when there are others. "Santa" indeed is a real suspect. I just never followed too closely to see how he could have been alone and away with her for a period of time. Let's say he did it, so they knew he was there alone with her downstairs while they were upstairs, he rapes and kills her and leaves? Did the parents see him to the door as you would a normal guest or did they just find her and he was gone already. Because if the latter if I were the parents he's the first and only whom I would have suspected, but they didnt initially point a finger to him I dont think. Maybe Ill go and look for the official timeline of how this all went down.

They said he had an alibi. But otherwise, it wouldn't be tough if he knew they were at a party all night. He knew the house, he had toured it two days prior. He could have entered through the basement. Wrote the ransom note. And then waited in the basement until they got home and then waited awhile longer until they'd have gone to sleep. He then goes straight to JRB's room as santa, tells her shhhh, she goes quietly downstairs, they eat pineapples. He takes her down to the basement, stun guns her and then goes from there. Not implausible at all, unless he has an alibi.

[jtoler]

They said he had an alibi. But otherwise, it wouldn't be tough if he knew they were at a party all night. He knew the house, he had toured it two days prior. He could have entered through the basement. Wrote the ransom note. And then waited in the basement until they got home and then waited awhile longer until they'd have gone to sleep. He then goes straight to JRB's room as santa, tells her shhhh, she goes quietly downstairs, they eat pineapples. He takes her down to the basement, stun guns her and then goes from there. Not implausible at all, unless he has an alibi.

I wonder if they said what that alibi was. So if he toured the house two days prior perhaps he'd never been inside before or at least not all around the house. I heard them talk about the ranson note forensics concerning the parents not sure if they said anything about whether his handwriting had any similarities. All what you said is plausible no doubt. Wonder if they had any dogs. I guess whatever his alibi was they felt ok, although that means nothing, corroborating witnesses could lie and/or forget exact times of day, I wonder if he told them he was out of town. Interesting case.

[unusialsusp5]

patsy accidentally did it and rest of family tried to cover it up. thought everyone knew this. patsy's dead so what difference does it make now. a non-story that someone is trying capitalize on it by writing books and producing tv segments for the sole purpose of making money.

[jtoler]

patsy accidentally did it and rest of family tried to cover it up. thought everyone knew this. patsy's dead so what difference does it make now. a non-story that someone is trying capitalize on it by writing books and producing tv segments for the sole purpose of making money.

Wouldnt rule that out of question either.

[d2bets]

patsy accidentally did it and rest of family tried to cover it up. thought everyone knew this. patsy's dead so what difference does it make now. a non-story that someone is trying capitalize on it by writing books and producing tv segments for the sole purpose of making money.

But what about the sexual abuse? How does that fit with that theory?

[unusialsusp5]

But what about the sexual abuse? How does that fit with that theory?

not connected with her death. could have happened backstage at a beauty pageant or at training classes for the beauty pageants. parents didn't exactly keep an eye on her when she went to these things. too busy trying to make money.

[Ghenghis Kahn]

john mark karr is a creepy mother fukker.

[slambam]

Anybody watch the CBS show? No doubt it was somebody in the house. Nobody will know for sure who it was, but I'm thinking karma killed her mom.

[jtoler]

I saw it, like the shows last week they left stuff out of it. Definitely wasnt an intruder.

[zizoudane10]

The intruder could have written the note while JonBenet pay dead in the basement and the family lay asleep upstairs. Maybe he was prepared to kill or subdue the family if they came down. That note could have been written in 15 minutes while they were sleeping at 3am. Doesn't seem that implausible to me.

Much more implausible that Patsy and John would suddenly hatch a coverup involving writing a bizarre fake ransom note and leaving the dead child in the basement. And if it was an accident by Burke who killed her, what about the stun gun? And where is the stun gun? A 9 year old has and knows how to use a stun gun?

How sure is it really, that it was indeed a stun gun?
I remember reading somewhere, that the marks didn't match any possible stun gun - but did match a toy train from the same basement....

[d2bets]

CBS show says it was Burke. Maybe. Kind of unfair to have fingers pointed at this pointed like that though. Why wait 20 years? Patsy's dead. Can they still charge him?

[Auto Donk]

they should ask john mark karr, he was with her when she died

[sammygran]

It was a total cluster f----k from the start. Body was moved. Crime scene compromised.

[d2bets]

They seemed convinced that it couldn't have been an intruder based on cobwebs. Seemed a little suspect. Lou Smit was one of the best in the biz and spent a lot more time than they did and was convinced that it was an intruder. Was he bought off? Their theory is certainly not impossible, just not sure I agree that it's the only theory possible.

[Auto Donk]

intruder theory certainly holds water, as the f'n duct tape had some sort of "animal hair" fibres that did not fit any animal near or at the scene; other fibers didn't match anything at all the house either.... foreign dna on two separate articles of clothing such that they couldn't have come from the factory... (tho they might have come from the same dumbass investigator or cop at boulder pd who didn't wear proper gloves before handling evidence); they found no source for the cord that was used to tie up JBR, as well, at the house.... alot of shit simply didn't add up....

also, it appeas that JBR was stuffed into the suit case beneath the window at one point, and then removed..... question is my mind was were they planning on taking her out of the house in that suitcase alive, or dead? if alive, and then they couldn't get her out, did they decide to tap dat young ass and kill her at the scene?

or had they (the two intruders) already tapped dat young ass, killed her, and were now planning on getting rid of the body that had been stuffed into the suitcase.....

we'll probably never know wtf truly happened........

[jtoler]

Certain stuff they dont talk about on these shows some stuff I may have missed, but I know they dont cover some important things. Wasnt there evidence of a brush chips/scrapings in her that was found elsewhere in the house. Obvious the scene was staged. No fingerprints on ransom note, made no sense, seems Patsy stupidly trying not to incriminate herself put on gloves to handle the note, that being because she wrote it, but if you didnt write it and found a ransom note then your prints should have been on it. I looked at her prior writings, looks like her handwritten, many agree, her own mother said it was her handwriting. The suitcase I dont remember them talking about the contents. Perhaps dead awhile for hours and then it was reported. The garrote made no sense, seems to throw off, no need to use for restraint, also wasnt even touching her wrists, I agree with them also about that note how they showed if one wrote it even without thinking, it'd take over 20 minutes to write, with thought even longer. Nobody sat there and wrote it but Patsy. And why go through all of that if she's already dead in the basement. John went directly to the body after they said they were gonna search everywhere bringing his buddy to make it look like he happened to find her also for a witness. John picking up body contaminating scene he picks up daughter and lays her on floor in living room, strange. His booking flight afterwards is not something you'd expect, they didnt even ride to the morgue. What appeared to be John saying, "We arnt talking to you" in the background on the 911 call has been out for a long time many years they make it seem like theyre just discovering it. With all that said with every high profile case that was thrust before us like this in the past that Ive looked at a little I mostly see the same things, no different here, location, high presence of intelligence backgrounds, not much emotion, and no tears.

[Auto Donk]

all very good points.... so many issues i'd like to know the true evidence on, as well..... like the grate covering the basement windows outside.... heard there was vegetation crushed under it, as if it had recently been removed, then replaced, trapping weeds/grass under it.... finger prints on the grate? who knows....

source of dna on her underwear, was it semen or touch dna?

did she really even have dna tissue under her nails?

etc etc etc..... a lot of contradictory info out there...

also heard there were "practice ransom note, and then notes" that were found.... one source says one, another says two.... wtf?

boulder pd should release all of its evidence, as they don't have a f'n clue...... let snowy have it all, and he'll have an answer within an hour or two after he finishes his review......

[Auto Donk]

re: the last line of your post, toler, i believe the ramsey's were jammin down to this when the first cops arrived.....

[d2bets]

all very good points.... so many issues i'd like to know the true evidence on, as well..... like the grate covering the basement windows outside.... heard there was vegetation crushed under it, as if it had recently been removed, then replaced, trapping weeds/grass under it.... finger prints on the grate? who knows....

source of dna on her underwear, was it semen or touch dna?

did she really even have dna tissue under her nails?

etc etc etc..... a lot of contradictory info out there...

also heard there were "practice ransom note, and then notes" that were found.... one source says one, another says two.... wtf?

boulder pd should release all of its evidence, as they don't have a f'n clue...... let snowy have it all, and he'll have an answer within an hour or two after he finishes his review......

I think all can agree that the Boulder PD blew the case so bad from Day 1. We will probably never know. And why the sudden massive interest after so little interest for so long? If Burke didn't it, I feel bad for the kid. He was basically convicted on CBS. I mean, if he did do it, couldn't he just admit to it. As I understand, he can't be prosecuted because he was 9. Just say it was a horrible accident.

[nyplayer33]

Too many years have passed...too much contamination of evidence. Unless a confession arises..this never gets solved. Enough DNA and evidence suggests the parents didn't do it.

[nyplayer33]

Fbi handwriting experts said with 99 percent certainty that both parents did NOT write the ransom note.

[jtoler]

Fbi handwriting experts said with 99 percent certainty that both parents did NOT write the ransom note.

What does that mean? Do you mean neither? Every handwriting analysis Ive come across on this case said differently.

[jtoler]

Too many years have passed...too much contamination of evidence. Unless a confession arises..this never gets solved. Enough DNA and evidence suggests the parents didn't do it.

Which dna and evidence is that?

[Auto Donk]

Ol Burke should be able to get some pussy now, since he filed a $20M defamation action vs. CBS....

[d2bets]

Ol Burke should be able to get some pussy now, since he filed a $20M defamation action vs. CBS....

Almost impossible to win a suit like that.

[Auto Donk]

pass a lie detector test, and he'll hammer them......

his parents cashed in a few of their defamation suits back in the day

[d2bets]

pass a lie detector test, and he'll hammer them......

his parents cashed in a few of their defamation suits back in the day

Not enough. He has to prove they used knowingly false info...and if he's deemed a public figure then he has to show actual malice. Proving he didn't do it is one piece but not necessarily sufficient in itself.