Is religion a superstition?

[StackinGreen]

raydog, I'm sorry you feel that way but it's not the truth. Notice that I'm not saying that you don't have a good reason to be suspicious, particularly if your life story regarding these issues was polluted by bad examples.

I wouldn't be able to cogently post on topics like these, or have the resume I do education-wise if I were subject to manipulation, brainwashed, had mental issues or whatever unhealthy, questionable language you use to describe whomever.

I treated each subject as it were and demonstrated that what you posted is the true lie. It's fine that you don't want to accept certain things about living with faith, but you shouldn't put that on others by posting falsehoods, calling other people names, and being incorrect about it, all the while.

It's not fair to yourself or others, and it hurts everyone. Most of all, it appears to me that it's hurting you.

[StackinGreen]

Picture isn't that far off really; he's only talking about New Testament, not old. The canon testaments aren't 4 centuries old but there oldest existing copies are, and there certainly were a lot of other documents to choose from. Minor errors aside, the main point of the post (that the KJ bible is a slightly skewed translation of translations of stuff that was chosen by the church to be their version of the history they wanted to teach) is still valid....to say the whole thing is off because a non-crucial part of the argument is false is an exaggeration at least.



Spot on here...Dead Sea scrolls seems to have become the popular name to lump all non-canon biblical works under, old testament or new lol

Everything in that leads a person to the conclusion that it's all made up. Its facts aren't even close, sorry Triple, you are just off-base here. Paul's epistles date to the 50s and the gospels were already in use, with Q sources for the synoptics as well as the mystical work of John being late 1st centure before his exile to Patmos. If KJV is a bad translation it has nothing to do with the historical truths of Christianity. As a person who receives his tradition from the eastern fathers this never had any consequence for me since we always used the original, canonical sources. The objections prove nothing except that westerners aren't aware that they have a deformed understanding of christianity. Still, that doesn't make christianity untrue.

There is no main point. It's way off. I'm not sure what's hard to understand about that.

[Triple_D_Bet]

Everything in that leads a person to the conclusion that it's all made up. Its facts aren't even close, sorry Triple, you are just off-base here. Paul's epistles date to the 50s and the gospels were already in use, with Q sources for the synoptics as well as the mystical work of John being late 1st centure before his exile to Patmos. If KJV is a bad translation it has nothing to do with the historical truths of Christianity. As a person who receives his tradition from the eastern fathers this never had any consequence for me since we always used the original, canonical sources. The objections prove nothing except that westerners aren't aware that they have a deformed understanding of christianity. Still, that doesn't make christianity untrue.

There is no main point. It's way off. I'm not sure what's hard to understand about that.

Yes, we both agree that the picture he posted is inaccurate in how old the canon gospels' sources likely are. That one error doesn't change the rest of the points (that the KJV version was mistranslated for desired results, or that gospels were chosen to fit a narrative, etc). These are things we've previously agreed upon, so seems to me like the picture isn't too far off at all.

Might be a little broad to imply all Christians believe it, but 1) a majority do, and 2) those who don't still believe the central premise of the book (that God is real) with just as little proof. We agree that people who take the bible as infallible are ridiculous; the point of the picture is that it's also ridiculous to believe anything (such as Christianity) when the only supporting evidence is an inaccurate piece of literature.

[raydog]

fearing god is a mental disorder... facts will never matter... beg, pray, get let down, make stupid fukking excuses, repeat... same shit, different day...good luck

[StackinGreen]

raydog, that's paganism. I won't prolong it but you are not accurately portraying anything. Anyway, it comes back to your life experience, nothing something psychological.

Triple, at least 2/3 of the Christians in the world (at least) are Roman Catholic and Eastern/Oriental Orthodox. None of these traditions thinks as you say, and never has.

[muldoon]

lol. you are in no position to say what truth is.

And believing in an unproven fantasy puts you in a better position?

[StackinGreen]

fearing god is a mental disorder... facts will never matter... beg, pray, get let down, make stupid fukking excuses, repeat... same shit, different day...good luck

The irony is that you're really just talking about ... all people

Even people who say they don't "believe" in things believe in a great many things, stuff they take on faith.

If you can't see by this point in life that all people claim all sorts of stuff and then act haphazardly, I think the enlightenment joke is on you.

That's why the Truth is so important.

[recon1]

Numbers 14:11The LORD said to Moses, "How long will this people spurn Me? And how long will they not believe in Me, despite all the signs which I have performed in their midst?
- See more at: http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topic....LID3IvuM.dpuf

[Triple_D_Bet]

raydog, that's paganism. I won't prolong it but you are not accurately portraying anything. Anyway, it comes back to your life experience, nothing something psychological.

Triple, at least 2/3 of the Christians in the world (at least) are Roman Catholic and Eastern/Oriental Orthodox. None of these traditions thinks as you say, and never has.

None of what raydog mentioned seems to apply to paganism, and the actions he describe seem like they're core tenets of most religions...dismissing it as paganism doesn't seem intellectually honest.

Very few of the higher officials believe as I say, but their adherents are another story...and it's certainly not accurate to say they never believed in the literal truth of the bible. Regardless, let's back up a bit: even if the majority of Christians don't believe in the complete infallibility of the bible, they obviously and by definition believe it is accurate on some points, such as the existence of God, a supernatural Jesus and various miracles. At the end of the day, they differ from a biblical literalist only in that they accept fewer things based on the often-mistranslated, manufactured "word of God". While disbelieving certain things in the Bible makes a person more reasonable, they still believe things based on the Bible, and thus the conclusion raydogs picture draws isn't all that far off, just a bit narrower in the insanity people believe in. The belief that God partially manifested in Jesus so he could torture himself into forgiving us for our metaphorical sins...it's hard to consider that much less irrational than Noahs Ark or similar. Dismissing the premise (that believing stuff because a man-made instrument like the bible says so) simply because there's variance in what percentage of the bible Christians widely regard as true isn't something a rational person can do.

The irony is that you're really just talking about ... all people

Even people who say they don't "believe" in things believe in a great many things, stuff they take on faith.

If you can't see by this point in life that all people claim all sorts of stuff and then act haphazardly, I think the enlightenment joke is on you.

That's why the Truth is so important.

Certainly everyone has beliefs that they can't or haven't rationalized; oftentimes, they could be said to be taken on faith. However, there's a difference in what actions are taken based on that faith...having faith that your football team will somehow come back and win, or that your company will promote you, is certainly less detrimental than harming people or violating their rights because you think God said that's how it should be. Regardless, the fact that many people behave irrationally outside of religion doesn't make religion any more rational, or any less deserving of being called out for this irrationality.

[Triple_D_Bet]

Numbers 14:11The LORD said to Moses, "How long will this people spurn Me? And how long will they not believe in Me, despite all the signs which I have performed in their midst?
- See more at: http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topic....LID3IvuM.dpuf

And Moses said unto the Lord, "Uh, bro, people can go to Vegas and see magic tricks with better production values and less chance of death for blasphemy. Maybe you should mix it up a little bit and give people some explanation for your existence that won't completely disappear when they eventually discover there are rational explanations for all the phenomena attributed to you. And maybe stop with the killing your own people dude? If they don't believe you're the compassionate almighty, maybe it's because you keep killing them when they question you? Just a thought, man, just a thought..."

[StackinGreen]

As I've said, religion is paganism, that is, it is man-made.

Christianity is revelation.

Of course "religion" should be called out for things in a critical manner.

Your points bounce so much around socio-political enterprise that I won't touch them. Still, my purpose was to clarify falsehoods and I'm content in what I've written and exposed.

[Triple_D_Bet]

As I've said, religion is paganism, that is, it is man-made.

Christianity is revelation.

Of course "religion" should be called out for things in a critical manner.

Your points bounce so much around socio-political enterprise that I won't touch them. Still, my purpose was to clarify falsehoods and I'm content in what I've written and exposed.

OK...so if religion is man-made, can you describe how you see your version of Christianity as different? Christianity usually being defined as a religion, I don't see the distinction you're making.

[recon1]

And Moses said unto the Lord, "Uh, bro, people can go to Vegas and see magic tricks with better production values and less chance of death for blasphemy. Maybe you should mix it up a little bit and give people some explanation for your existence that won't completely disappear when they eventually discover there are rational explanations for all the phenomena attributed to you. And maybe stop with the killing your own people dude? If they don't believe you're the compassionate almighty, maybe it's because you keep killing them when they question you? Just a thought, man, just a thought..."

I'm sorry, with the incoherent rambling i lost trying to find a point. Not trying to be facetious, but who am i "killing"?

[recon1]

As I've said, religion is paganism, that is, it is man-made.

Christianity is revelation.

Of course "religion" should be called out for things in a critical manner.

Your points bounce so much around socio-political enterprise that I won't touch them. Still, my purpose was to clarify falsehoods and I'm content in what I've written and exposed.

No doubt, i work hard at my spiritual being. Religion can be a problem.

[Triple_D_Bet]

I'm sorry, with the incoherent rambling i lost trying to find a point. Not trying to be facetious, but who am i "killing"?

Shrug, it's pretty easy to follow even if it runs on a bit...Moses talking to God about all the people he (God) is killing, not you. If you take nothing else away from it, please understand that quoting a bible story to someone who's explaining the bible is a fairy tale is pretty meaningless

[raydog]

brothers cuunt mother in law is a bible thumping goof... came over today and almost instantly started in on me for not bowing my head or closing my eyes to pray at my nieces christian hs graduation the other day... questioned my morals and doesnt think anyone, who isnt a gullible christian bible thumper, has any possible way of being a morally sound and good person... i had to pull this out on her stupid ass

[brainfreeze]

brothers cuunt mother in law is a bible thumping goof... came over today and almost instantly started in on me for not bowing my head or closing my eyes to pray at my nieces christian hs graduation the other day... questioned my morals and doesnt think anyone, who isnt a gullible christian bible thumper, has any possible way of being a morally sound and good person... i had to pull this out on her stupid ass

The Bible's internal chronology places Abraham around 2000 BCE.


John 8:58
58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

[StackinGreen]

The goal of the christian life is not to be a moral person, precisely for the reason raydog says.

Being moral doesn't defeat corruption and death.

It's just a comment on the earlier sentiments. If you have some sort of tit for tat idea of God, then you see christianity as "religion" which is paganism. My suspicion is that raydog's aunt may see it that way.

These same people think that they'll be rewarded if they do this or that (like the BS prosperity gospel stuff). Or that they can ask God for things and bargain with Him somehow. Unfortunately, a whole lot of people think this way.

The gift has already been given, and it's knowing that you have someone who, when you think times or tough or all is lost, will co-suffer with you and help you remain faithful no matter what is happening (as He did).

"Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need." (Hebrews 4: 14-16)

[Triple_D_Bet]

The Bible's internal chronology places Abraham around 2000 BCE.


John 8:58
58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

So the response to the historical evidence that Jesus' concepts were conceived independently several times over well before him, is that "Nah, Jesus' autobiography says he says he did it first, so he must have"?

The goal of the christian life is not to be a moral person, precisely for the reason raydog says.

Being moral doesn't defeat corruption and death.

It's just a comment on the earlier sentiments. If you have some sort of tit for tat idea of God, then you see christianity as "religion" which is paganism. My suspicion is that raydog's aunt may see it that way.

These same people think that they'll be rewarded if they do this or that (like the BS prosperity gospel stuff). Or that they can ask God for things and bargain with Him somehow. Unfortunately, a whole lot of people think this way.

The gift has already been given, and it's knowing that you have someone who, when you think times or tough or all is lost, will co-suffer with you and help you remain faithful no matter what is happening (as He did).

"Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need." (Hebrews 4: 14-16)

People certainly believe some rather odd things. However, it all comes back to you have no more reason to believe in an imaginary friend than they do, as you share the same unproven sources. Your beliefs are certainly less irrational than a biblical literalist, but believing in God despite the overwhelming imbalance in evidence, you're still a little bit out there.

[raydog]

stackin, i have a very ugly relationship with my bros mother in law...

just last week, we were at my nephews sports banquet and one of my older bros hs buddies was there... he is missing some teeth and hair now... the mother in law looks right at him and, says "i would hate to be an old guy, who has lost his teeth and is going bald and cant play sports anymore... it would hurt mentally"

nobody is real sure why she said it, but i told her to apologize and stop acting like a fukking hypocritical oyster, then i left and sat somewhere else... i have no idea what was going on in her warped mind... but its comments like that that make me want to strangle the bitch for thinking she is better than anyone else..ugh

oh, ill just apologize to god and all is forgiven..umm, and who cares if im forgiven by the people the comment hurt... the theories are so fukking stupid i seriously take pity believers

[recon1]

stackin, i have a very ugly relationship with my bros mother in law...

just last week, we were at my nephews sports banquet and one of my older bros hs buddies was there... he is missing some teeth and hair now... the mother in law looks right at him and, says "i would hate to be an old guy, who has lost his teeth and is going bald and cant play sports anymore... it would hurt mentally"

nobody is real sure why she said it, but i told her to apologize and stop acting like a fukking hypocritical oyster, then i left and sat somewhere else... i have no idea what was going on in her warped mind... but its comments like that that make me want to strangle the bitch for thinking she is better than anyone else..ugh

oh, ill just apologize to god and all is forgiven..umm, and who cares if im forgiven by the people the comment hurt... the theories are so fukking stupid i seriously take pity believers

Just remember, just because this apparent classless lady claims of God, does not make it of God.

[StackinGreen]

recon1 has it, you know the tree by its fruit

The thing Triple isn't fair about --- forgetting the fact that he takes for granted that we are "just animals" typing over a wireless internet connection, communicating with 1s and 0s potentially across the world --- is the standard of "proven" or "provable"

We come back to it. In every age it has been proven. It is proven now. I think you aren't willing to do the "research", that is, live the Christian life and then comment on it. It's amusing that outsiders use different standards when judging varying situations.

Consider this: Name anything that you claim to be "provable". Then tell me if you yourself did the tests to deem it "proven."

This is why and where you fail.

[muldoon]

recon1 has it, you know the tree by its fruit

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/nominated-posts/3096149-black-people-oysters-what-bafoon.html

Indeed

[muldoon]

I think you aren't willing to do the "research", that is, live the Christian life and then comment on it.

Please explain what you believe to be the "Christian life", and what you would guess the actual percentage of people who claim to be Christian, live that life.

[recon1]

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/foru...at-bafoon.html

Indeed

So, you agree or don't agree lib-tards are using blacks to agitate a communist revolution? Your point?

[muldoon]

So, you agree or don't agree lib-tards are using blacks to agitate a communist revolution? Your point?

I don't agree, no.

I think you, like most bronze age fantasy believing hypocrites, live in a world of pretend consequences to absolve what little conscience you possess of the guilt from generalization and racism that you bring forward daily.

FYI - the historical (and unproven) Jesus was a lot closer to communist than phony buffet Christians seem to want to admit.

[jtoler]

Please explain what you believe to be the "Christian life", and what you would guess the actual percentage of people who claim to be Christian, live that life.

Small percent.

[recon1]

I don't agree, no.

I think you, like most bronze age fantasy believing hypocrites, live in a world of pretend consequences to absolve what little conscience you possess of the guilt from generalization and racism that you bring forward daily.

FYI - the historical (and unproven) Jesus was a lot closer to communist than phony buffet Christians seem to want to admit.

Why don't you engage me in the thread that my comments were orginally made?

You saying Jesus was more akin to Communist is a laughable joke, only if you did not really think this.

Your "racist" card doesn't work with me, I've said nothing along those lines, in-fact show me where i was "racist".
Fact is you and your kind are using blacks to set off your communist revolution and are truly the hateful degenerates. Don't worry commie, your day will come. No room for a commie inside America, your time is about up……….wait for it

[muldoon]

you and your kind are using blacks to set off your communist revolution and are truly the hateful degenerates. Don't worry commie, your day will come. No room for a commie inside America, your time is about up……….wait for it

LOL

I'll set the timer Clem.

[recon1]

LOL

I'll set the timer Clem.

Tick, tock, said the clock.

[muldoon]

Your "racist" card doesn't work with me, I've said nothing along those lines, in-fact show me where i was "racist".

Claiming an entire race doesn't value education? That's not racist?

Another "Christian" with his idle threats.

Maybe you'll go blow up an abortion clinic to make your point and prove what a tough guy you are.

[Triple_D_Bet]

recon1 has it, you know the tree by its fruit

The thing Triple isn't fair about --- forgetting the fact that he takes for granted that we are "just animals" typing over a wireless internet connection, communicating with 1s and 0s potentially across the world --- is the standard of "proven" or "provable"

We come back to it. In every age it has been proven. It is proven now. I think you aren't willing to do the "research", that is, live the Christian life and then comment on it. It's amusing that outsiders use different standards when judging varying situations.

Consider this: Name anything that you claim to be "provable". Then tell me if you yourself did the tests to deem it "proven."

This is why and where you fail.

There are plenty of things I can prove myself; even if I haven't directly conducted experiments for everything I believe, I'm content with the knowledge that given the opportunity nobody has been able to reputably disprove them, and that the predictive conclusions drawn from them lead to even greater truths. Making and proving claims is almost always predictive, in that the hypothesis can be used to predict a future action as verification that it's true and as an indication of the usefulness of the knowledge. Believing in a god fails both these criteria, as it's can't be proven and is completely helpless to predict future actions.

Compare that to your beliefs, which is just you declaring something to be true with no justification or results to show for it (aside from some possible placebo effects easily explained by well-documented science). Facts don't require you to believe in them, and reason and logic can be employed by people who either disagree or agree with a statement. Unfortunately, like many who subscribe to a higher power, you seem to have thrown logic and reason out the window in this area. This is how you are failing.

[jtoler]

God bless you Triple d.

[Triple_D_Bet]

God bless you Triple d.

If you could prove he did, it would be a different conversation altogether

[rkelly110]

If you could prove he did, it would be a different conversation altogether

Wow, 3D. Stop, look around. What do you see? Are you better off than the guy next to you? Look out further,
are you better off than your neighbor? Go even further out, are you better off than those poor blacks in Africa?

What made you better off? Born in the right area, parents or country? Why is that? You better count your blessings
and thank somebody, 'cause YOU sure as hell didn't create your own world. That goes for ALL you non believers.

Stop, think, and thank.