grow a set pinnacle

[tacomax]

Basically what you are telling us is that Pinnalce and Bodog are equivalent books and I think that offends a lot of people. Either you are telling us that there is quite a bit of variance within each grade or that the criteria are so broadly defined that there are so many different measures that all you have to do is satisfy a few to get a certain grade.

Bill went to the time and trouble of replying but it appears you didn't bother reading it. I'll help you out and I'll highlight a key line for you. Read it.Then read it again and I think you just might get the answer to your query.

Bodog might not be the top book for my personal use but they cover their niche and service their players as well as anyone.

[tacomax]

I also would like to add that I'm a huge tacomax fan and have been since day 1.

Jeez, I'm welling up here.

[BuddyBear]

Taco you are a fag...i can't tell you how many PMs i've gotten from people who say you are annoying...

Anyway...as usual Taco you are missing the point and that's probably b/c you have no clue what the term variance and measures mean. The quote that you highlight from Bill says personal use...Bill is making a comment about what books he uses and needs but he says "they cover their niche and service their players as well as anyone"...so here is where the analysis can begin.

First of all, should we assume that bodog players don't want reduced juice..... Should we assume that Bodog players enjoy receiving late lines? Should we assume that Bodog players like receiving totals on some games and not on others? Should we assume that their players like receiving dual lines, should we assume that a book that does not allow Canadian players should be considered an A book,

Should we assume that b/c they offer bonuses that they are of high quality...absolutely not. Before i went away on important business there was a thread by Ganchrow about how bonuses with certain rollover limits are really not beneficial in the long run and that in every instance a reduced juice sportsbook is prefered. As for suprior CS, Bodog does indeed have sharp CS and it has nice software but that shouldn't compensate for dealing dual lines, for late lines, limited lines, etc...

And I think one important thing needs to be stated now...Even though Pinnacle is considred a book for professionals it has now made big adjustments to cater to smaller players by offering one free NT withdrawal regardless of the amount and e-check deposits. I wouldn't say pinn is for recreational use but it is certainly not limited to professionals anymore as it is far more accessible to smaller/recreational type players than it use to be. Now if you had the choice between Bodog and Pinnacle...there is not a person on here or any other site who would recommend Bodog over Pinnacle. Therefore I have to question SBR's measures for how they grade books...it seems to me at best inconsistent and unfairly weighted on key criteria. Anyway...it all comes down to advertising dollars. We all know that...that's just the way it is not just in the gaming industry but in the news media industry, in Congress....i mean seriously when you hear a member of Congress say that even though so-so group contributed or lobbied for something but it had no influence on my decision...you say whatever. Here we have the same thing...you take money from someone you are beholden to their interests. That's just the way it goes....you can say all you want about other forums and how this one is above that but the reality is if you take money and are dependent on them for your financial success you are going to be their slave from now till the end of time no matter how hard you try to believe it not the case.

The reality is Bodog is a nice book but not deserving of an A grade as pointed out in the threads I advanced.

[tacomax]

Taco you are a fag...i can't tell you how many PMs i've gotten from people who say you are annoying...

If that gives you wood then I'm real happy for you.

[BuddyBear]

okay Taco...whatever i am not going to play name games with you all day....

But answer me this....I am a teacher right. So let's say a student comes up to me and says I am a really great teacher and I really appreciate everything you have done and have got a lot out of this class....now the student says "i really hope I do well in this class and I have a present here for you" and throws down an envelope of $500 on my desk and smiles.

What do you think think (A) the student's expectations are of me? and (B) what do you think is my expectation of what the student expects of me?

[bigboydan]

Buddy,
I would tell players that I think Bodog is an A+ book. That was my position during our last evaluation. Bodog might not be the top book for my personal use but they cover their niche and service their players as well as anyone. The level of service, overall product, along with automatic bonuses makes them an obvious top book. If you think the biggest names in sports betting don't use them because of their limits or a later opener, you would be wrong.

I'm surprised by your statement especially since I've taken the time to give you my personal opinion on other topics. Honesty and information is what we aim for here and that is why Mudcat has been coveted by SBR twice. I'm still waiting for someone to find another forum where the staff critiques the sponsors on a daily basis. Everyone is welcome to debate where they feel a book should be and where it is for them. All of the information behind a rating is here for your viewing pleasure. Feel free to make your own case about a book instead of your take on someone else's opinion. Bodog is no where near an A? Start a thread and lets chat.

Mud,

To continue with our debate..



Let's look at 3 major US sports. I'll start with Baseball...

Overnight Lines: Yes
Reverse Run Lines: Yes
5-inning lines: Yes, RLs, MLs & Totals
Grand Salami Totals: Yes
Research Report

Add MLB team totals and the MLB order form.

Whatcha got?

lets not forget Bill. Bodog does offer series prices during the week in bases

[Bill Dozer]

And yes Bill I appreciate your honesty and opinions...but that's not the point.

You are going to have to choose a position. Is it my honest opinion or not?

Pinnacle to Bodog is apples and oranges. You receive two completely different services on every level and is why we added the "P" and "R" to the reviews. I’ve said in the past that a case could be made for Pinnacle being the standard and the only A+ book but it's a little dramatic to be offended IMO, although I am glad you find Pinnacle that good.

The fact is it is hip for some forum newbie posters to bust on late lines because it makes them feel smart as if they need the opener to break out their play. An advantage player takes what he can get. Some books give an early line, others give rebates, reduced juice, or might offer a full staff of North American support and the best bonus program from a paying book.

Egos play a roll in forum socializing but those that know the value aren't going to pass on Bodog because they have to look at Calvin’s head.

[BuddyBear]

Bill I don't disagree Bodog is worth it....there are good lines there. It is ridiculous to assume that you can have one book and place every bet there and you are going to win....the reality is you need multiple books to win and if you want to win you'll need bodog sooner or later.

My argument is that Bodog is not an A book....that's all I am saying. I have met very few people who seem to agree that Bodog is a top notch book. I don't think comparing Pinnacle and Bodog is like comparing apples and oranges it's more like comparing red apples with green apples.

[Mudcat]

Mud,

To continue with our debate..



Let's look at 3 major US sports. I'll start with Baseball...

Overnight Lines: Yes
Reverse Run Lines: Yes
5-inning lines: Yes, RLs, MLs & Totals
Grand Salami Totals: Yes
Research Report

Add MLB team totals and the MLB order form.

Whatcha got?

Well sir,

I don't know how much detail to get into with this. Like if you look at Pinnacle right now, they have a list of game props on one MLB game. So if you were to compare them to, say, TheGreek, WagerWeb, Bet365 - they have roughly the same number of options on that game. Some of the options are the same, some are different, but it's around the same number.

But on every other game, those other books have their same list - and it's all stuff Pinnacle doesn't have. That's about 12-15 options per game that these books have that Pinnacle doesn't.

It's a small schedule today but that translates to hundreds of MLB betting options most days that you can get at some of these props oriented books that you can't get at Pinnacle.

That's basically where I am coming from.

[RickySteve]

Wait a second...Pinnacle had game props on baseball yesterday????

[Mudcat]

Just the Red Sox game.

[Bill Dozer]

Well sir,

I don't know how much detail to get into with this. Like if you look at Pinnacle right now, they have a list of game props on one MLB game. So if you were to compare them to, say, TheGreek, WagerWeb, Bet365 - they have roughly the same number of options on that game. Some of the options are the same, some are different, but it's around the same number.

But on every other game, those other books have their same list - and it's all stuff Pinnacle doesn't have. That's about 12-15 options per game that these books have that Pinnacle doesn't.

It's a small schedule today but that translates to hundreds of MLB betting options most days that you can get at some of these props oriented books that you can't get at Pinnacle.

That's basically where I am coming from.

I hear ya. If you are talking novelty prop stuff then we are talking abut two different things. For real wager options that you can count on being offered for each game, it's Pinnacle. For how many times will Big Pappi adjust his jock at the plate?, it's probably Wagerweb.

[bigboydan]

pinny does offer the weekend series prices. the problem is that the brewers/cubs series price isn't posted there yet, and the game starts in about an hour and a half


in case anyone cares, heres what thegreek currently has this series price at:

Milwaukee Brewers +140
Chicago Cubs -160

[RickySteve]

Just the Red Sox game.

What did they have lines on? Player props too?

I really wish Pinny would be more consistent with their props. They posted player props for Game 1 of the NBA playoffs, but nothing since. I can't believe a book with "a set" like Pinnacle's would pull the plug on some $300 limit bets after only one game, no matter how they might have fared.

[imgv94]

What other sportsbook can you bet runlines between -1 to -2.5 or +1 to +2.5?

Alternate runlines
Horse Matchups
Chess
Lacrosse
Politics

WTF is the arguement here??

CASE CLOSED!!!!

[Mudcat]

What did they have lines on? Player props too?

A small number of them were player props. They had the Blue Jays/Yankees game today. (I'd post their standard list but the Yankees game has gone off so there's nothing on the board right now.)

I really wish Pinny would be more consistent with their props. They posted player props for Game 1 of the NBA playoffs, but nothing since. I can't believe a book with "a set" like Pinnacle's would pull the plug on some $300 limit bets after only one game, no matter how they might have fared.

You're right. Pinnacle is not the place to look for consistency with that stuff. If that's important to you, you're better off with 5Dimes, TheGreek, WagerWeb etc.