Odd dispute

fiveteamer · 07-22-08, 03:24 PM

you guys are ****ing dirtballs if you think books should be allowed to trap costomers.

MrX · 07-22-08, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by fiveteamer

you guys are ****ing dirtballs if you think books should be allowed to trap costomers.

At an exchange it's actually customers trapping other customers. But I agree it should be avoided.

Santo · 07-22-08, 03:46 PM

Is the exchange in question Matchbook? I've never seen those prop-style markets there..

Jamie_UK · 07-23-08, 02:08 AM

I can think of many markets on BF where you can get 999/1 on players no longer in a competition.

tomwakefield · 07-23-08, 05:11 AM

All football (soccer) correct scores in running go to 999/1 once they are no longer possible, and if you look at the history, you can sometimes see several hundred pounds bet at those odds. Nevertheless, I don't think 100% impossible or 100% certain outcomes should be available to bet on (although 99.9999% either way is fine)

Justin7 · 07-23-08, 09:52 AM

The book is Betfair. I have been in contact with them, and their response is basically "too bad".

Bet Shooter · 07-23-08, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Justin7

The book is Betfair. I have been in contact with them, and their response is basically "too bad".

Justin, let's look at it this way. If it was a sportsbook and not a market type exchange, then everyone in here would be judging their answer based on how reputable the book was. Example:

Pinny did it? "They must have made a mistake."
They will refund all wagers.

SBG did it? "They probably canceled the no wagers and kept the yes wagers" F**king crooks!

What makes this different and unique (I see your confusion in deciding) is: With an exchange you have one customer putting up the wager and another buying that wager. It is impossible to determine malice on the part of the original person that hung the wager in the first place. But it still comes down to buyer beware. The hands of the exchange are tied. The only reason it gets cloudy in your mind is you, and most players, still look at these exchanges as books. They are not. Step back and look at it in terms of a financial instrument. If someone quoted the wrong price on an option on any exchange in the world. Would the buyer go back to the clearing house for restitution? No they are stuck with it. Also they would never even consider calling the clearing house.

It will take many more years before players start to thing of the exchanges in terms of a market and not a sportsbook.

My two cents.

Santo · 07-23-08, 11:34 AM

Yes this always has and always will happen at Betfair, I've often bet 999/1 in a bet I can't win to free up funds in running.

What odds did the guy take?

Jamie_UK · 07-23-08, 11:40 AM

999/1 also serves a purpose if you are trading long term markets like golf and you have laid at 30/1 or something, if the bet moves out to 999/1 you can clear your liabilities for a tiny cost and retain most of the profit.

RickySteve · 07-23-08, 01:42 PM

This is not a matter of hedging or opportunity cost. At no point in time did the market have an uncertain outcome. Betfair's stupidity or malice cheated unwitting clients.

Justin7 · 07-23-08, 01:46 PM

The market was up earlier in the match, when it was possible. When the last set started, it was no longer possible, but left up.

I don't think a market can cry "buyer beware" when it leaves a market up too long, and a reasonable person might not realize it's a 0-win situation. I have to discuss this with some other mods, and see what we want to do with it.

Santo · 07-23-08, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by RickySteve

This is not a matter of hedging or opportunity cost. At no point in time did the market have an uncertain outcome. Betfair's stupidity or malice cheated unwitting clients.

Rubbish. The market in question would have been "Will there be a tiebreak in this match". At the start, there are 4 chances for this, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th sets. The fact the better in this case made his bet in the 5th is his stupidity, not the exchange operators. Betfair rarely settle individual markets before the completion of the match.

I strongly disagree with Justin here also. You can't expect these operators to settle these markets instantly, and traditionally Betfair have always left these open so people can free up money at 1000/1.01.

MrX · 07-23-08, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by Santo

Rubbish. The market in question would have been "Will there be a tiebreak in this match". At the start, there are 4 chances for this, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th sets.

In Justin's description the market is "Will there be a tiebreak in this set?"

Is that accurate, or was the market for a tiebreak in the entire match?

JC · 07-23-08, 02:44 PM

I think they should refund all sides.

They may as well offer, "Will there be a field goal?" in a baseball game. It has just as much chance.

Santo · 07-23-08, 02:50 PM

Justin said "The market was up earlier in the match, when it was possible." A 5th set TB is never possible, so the only market I can see this being is the Will there be a TB one.

RickySteve · 07-23-08, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by Santo

Rubbish. The market in question would have been "Will there be a tiebreak in this match". At the start, there are 4 chances for this, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th sets. The fact the better in this case made his bet in the 5th is his stupidity, not the exchange operators. Betfair rarely settle individual markets before the completion of the match.

I strongly disagree with Justin here also. You can't expect these operators to settle these markets instantly, and traditionally Betfair have always left these open so people can free up money at 1000/1.01.

Did you mean 'bettor', mate?

Santo · 07-23-08, 03:53 PM

bet·tor also bet·ter
n. One that bets or places a bet.

Dark Horse · 07-23-08, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by Justin7

The market was up earlier in the match, when it was possible. When the last set started, it was no longer possible, but left up.

I don't think a market can cry "buyer beware" when it leaves a market up too long, and a reasonable person might not realize it's a 0-win situation. I have to discuss this with some other mods, and see what we want to do with it.

Very normal for exchanges to keep offers open after a wager has been decided, until the match itself is over. It goes with the territory and happens all the time. It's not so much 'buyer beware', as 'trader be aware', when trading live. The realities of trading are cut throat. Trading is fast paced and it is the trader's responsibility to have access to relevant information. Exchanges shouldn't have to babysit traders or hold their hands.

The whole point of exchanges is that you make your own decisions, live, and live with them. The person was given a lesson in lack of awareness. You learn and move on. There's no turning back the clock for a stupid decision (but you can try to trade out of it at a loss).

In my opinion it is a mistake to treat exchanges as books. Exchanges offer the purest form of betting, without all the crap that books introduce. This is not a book trying to trap players, but a common occurrence in a fast paced trading environment where every man is his own. If you don't like it, don't trade.