Would you renounce your U.S. citizenship to gamble online?

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  • fearless
    Restricted User
    • 08-14-06
    • 4950

    #1
    Would you renounce your U.S. citizenship to gamble online?
    You can bet that internet gambling will be legal in this new country... Now, would you renounce U.S. citizenship to gamble online?

    WASHINGTON — The Lakota Indians, who gave the world legendary warriors Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, have withdrawn from treaties with the United States.

    "We are no longer citizens of the United States of America and all those who live in the five-state area that encompasses our country are free to join us,'' long-time Indian rights activist Russell Means said.

    A delegation of Lakota leaders has delivered a message to the State Department, and said they were unilaterally withdrawing from treaties they signed with the federal government of the U.S., some of them more than 150 years old.

    The group also visited the Bolivian, Chilean, South African and Venezuelan embassies, and would continue on their diplomatic mission and take it overseas in the coming weeks and months.

    Lakota country includes parts of the states of Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana and Wyoming.

    The new country would issue its own passports and driving licences, and living there would be tax-free - provided residents renounce their U.S. citizenship, Mr Means said.

    The treaties signed with the U.S. were merely "worthless words on worthless paper," the Lakota freedom activists said.

    Withdrawing from the treaties was entirely legal, Means said.

    "This is according to the laws of the United States, specifically article six of the constitution,'' which states that treaties are the supreme law of the land, he said.

    "It is also within the laws on treaties passed at the Vienna Convention and put into effect by the US and the rest of the international community in 1980. We are legally within our rights to be free and independent,'' said Means.

    The Lakota relaunched their journey to freedom in 1974, when they drafted a declaration of continuing independence — an overt play on the title of the United States' Declaration of Independence from England.

    Thirty-three years have elapsed since then because "it takes critical mass to combat colonialism and we wanted to make sure that all our ducks were in a row,'' Means said.

    One duck moved into place in September, when the United Nations adopted a non-binding declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples — despite opposition from the United States, which said it clashed with its own laws.

    "We have 33 treaties with the United States that they have not lived by. They continue to take our land, our water, our children,'' Phyllis Young, who helped organize the first international conference on indigenous rights in Geneva in 1977, told the news conference.

    The U.S. "annexation'' of native American land has resulted in once proud tribes such as the Lakota becoming mere "facsimiles of white people,'' said Means.

    Oppression at the hands of the U.S. government has taken its toll on the Lakota, whose men have one of the shortest life expectancies - less than 44 years - in the world.

    Lakota teen suicides are 150 per cent above the norm for the U.S.; infant mortality is five times higher than the U.S. average; and unemployment is rife, according to the Lakota freedom movement's website.

    With a population of more than 1.3billion people, India is the second most populous country in the world. In 2017, the economy was the world’s sixth largest by GDP. It achieved independent in 1947 thanks in large part to the nonviolent resistance movement championed by Mahatma Gandhi. A is a nuclear weapons state and has long had conflict with its neighbor Pakistan.
    31
    Yes
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    8
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  • robzilla
    SBR MVP
    • 10-25-07
    • 3556

    #2
    Americans are led like cows to a slaughterhouse. Even gamblers on here get rights taken away and then they use messed up reasoning to say how its okay.
    Comment
    • Willie Bee
      SBR Posting Legend
      • 02-14-06
      • 15726

      #3
      There needs to be a third option - HELL NO! Renounce my citizenship, throw away every other great benefit my citizenship gives me, just to place a few wagers on my computer?! I'm sure a few of the USA bashers will come in and profess their ignorance on the subject, but any American who would throw it all away just to get one little freedom back such as gambling on-line is free to head north, south, east or west at their soonest convenience. I'll even hold the door open for them.

      One question that begs to be asked back the other direction is would Canadians and British citizens simply get up and leave their countries if on-line gambling was taken away?
      Comment
      • Jamie_UK
        SBR MVP
        • 01-12-07
        • 1103

        #4
        Originally posted by Willie Bee
        There needs to be a third option - HELL NO! Renounce my citizenship, throw away every other great benefit my citizenship gives me, just to place a few wagers on my computer?! I'm sure a few of the USA bashers will come in and profess their ignorance on the subject, but any American who would throw it all away just to get one little freedom back such as gambling on-line is free to head north, south, east or west at their soonest convenience. I'll even hold the door open for them.

        One question that begs to be asked back the other direction is would Canadians and British citizens simply get up and leave their countries if on-line gambling was taken away?
        All disappeared years ago with the patriot act Willie, very few benefits in being an American these days.

        In regard to your last point, if the British Government started telling me where and when I could spend the money that is mine I would leave in a second because Britain would no longer be a free Country. I have no interest in being treated the way Americans are.
        Comment
        • fearless
          Restricted User
          • 08-14-06
          • 4950

          #5
          Originally posted by Jamie_UK
          All disappeared years ago with the patriot act Willie, very few benefits in being an American these days.

          In regard to your last point, if the British Government started telling me where and when I could spend the money that is mine I would leave in a second because Britain would no longer be a free Country. I have no interest in being treated the way Americans are.
          If you look anything like your avatar, you're my fantasy. A woman with a great mind, sense of humor, real integrity, and a fantastic body. Even if you don't have the body you're awesome.
          Comment
          • Willie Bee
            SBR Posting Legend
            • 02-14-06
            • 15726

            #6
            Originally posted by Jamie_UK
            All disappeared years ago with the patriot act Willie, very few benefits in being an American these days.
            Another innocent victim duped. Keep on believing that, Jamie, and stay right where you are.

            By the way, how much of your yearly gross income gets chewed up by taxes (income, sales, etc)? Just wondering how freely the UK allows you to choose where and when you spend your hard-earned dough. Cheers mate, have to get back to work here in the outrageously oppressive US of A.
            Comment
            • Willie Bee
              SBR Posting Legend
              • 02-14-06
              • 15726

              #7
              P.s. --

              Interesting that the only person to say they would renounce their citizenship is a person that doesn't have it to begin with. Make sure and bring this up on your USA Tour next year, Jamie. And please, if you get to Texas let me know.
              Comment
              • louis
                SBR Wise Guy
                • 09-23-06
                • 763

                #8
                Keep your citizenship and passport

                It makes no difference if you are a U.S. citizen or not. The U.S. can not under its current laws prosecute Americans who go out of the country to gamble, unless of course you are part of a sportsbook taking bets from Americans. In the case of taking bets from Americans, you are breaking U.S. law (according to the justice department) whether you are a U.S. citizen or not regardless of where in the world you are located. If you are physically in the U.S., the justice department says you are breaking the law if you are gaming at an overseas website regardless of whether you are a citizen, resident, visitor, or whatever. So no, I would not give up my citizenship to gamble online because it is absolutely not necessary. In fact it is easier to travel to other countries where it is legal to gamble with a U.S. passport.
                Comment
                • robzilla
                  SBR MVP
                  • 10-25-07
                  • 3556

                  #9
                  I dont understand this American law... When you gamble online the wager is being placed in the country that the site is based from. It is not being placed where you are located. When Im playing poker, Im playing it in whatever country the site is from. I dont understand how I can be charged when Im gambling in another country....even if my physical body is in america, the game is taking place somewhere else.

                  Happy Im not american. By the way, taxes are going down in Canada.
                  Comment
                  • fearless
                    Restricted User
                    • 08-14-06
                    • 4950

                    #10
                    Originally posted by louis
                    It makes no difference if you are a U.S. citizen or not. The U.S. can not under its current laws prosecute Americans who go out of the country to gamble, unless of course you are part of a sportsbook taking bets from Americans. In the case of taking bets from Americans, you are breaking U.S. law (according to the justice department) whether you are a U.S. citizen or not regardless of where in the world you are located. If you are physically in the U.S., the justice department says you are breaking the law if you are gaming at an overseas website regardless of whether you are a citizen, resident, visitor, or whatever. So no, I would not give up my citizenship to gamble online because it is absolutely not necessary. In fact it is easier to travel to other countries where it is legal to gamble with a U.S. passport.
                    Would you please comment on the article in the original post? They're talking about a new country within the US with its own laws!
                    Comment
                    • Dark Horse
                      SBR Posting Legend
                      • 12-14-05
                      • 13764

                      #11
                      Originally posted by rainbowworld
                      They're talking about a new country within the US with its own laws!
                      And they called it Las Vegas?
                      Comment
                      • Jamie_UK
                        SBR MVP
                        • 01-12-07
                        • 1103

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Willie Bee
                        Another innocent victim duped. Keep on believing that, Jamie, and stay right where you are.

                        By the way, how much of your yearly gross income gets chewed up by taxes (income, sales, etc)? Just wondering how freely the UK allows you to choose where and when you spend your hard-earned dough. Cheers mate, have to get back to work here in the outrageously oppressive US of A.
                        I dont pay income tax , there is none on gaming.

                        You have an image of the USA that disappeared along with most of your rights years ago, your deluded and in denial Willie.
                        Comment
                        • Jamie_UK
                          SBR MVP
                          • 01-12-07
                          • 1103

                          #13
                          Originally posted by rainbowworld
                          If you look anything like your avatar, you're my fantasy. A woman with a great mind, sense of humor, real integrity, and a fantastic body. Even if you don't have the body you're awesome.
                          I hate to disappoint , but I have yet to have my penis removed
                          Comment
                          • Willie Bee
                            SBR Posting Legend
                            • 02-14-06
                            • 15726

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Jamie_UK
                            I dont pay income tax , there is none on gaming.
                            Are you saying there is no income tax to pay in the UK, or just that you don't pay it? And would you leave, renouncing your British citizenship, if on-line gaming was outlawed?
                            Comment
                            • louis
                              SBR Wise Guy
                              • 09-23-06
                              • 763

                              #15
                              Rainbowworld, you're right i didn't really direct my comments to the original post. As far as a new country within the U.S., I would not give up my U.S. citizenship. I would rather keep my citizenship, but become a resident somewhere else. U.S. citizenship is too valuable to me. I did point out one of the values which is how easy it is to travel around the world with a U.S. passport.
                              Comment
                              • thezbar
                                SBR Hall of Famer
                                • 08-29-06
                                • 6422

                                #16
                                No. Before internet I could always find a local to handle my action. Still can if need be. No need to surrender my birthright.
                                Comment
                                • fearless
                                  Restricted User
                                  • 08-14-06
                                  • 4950

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by louis
                                  Rainbowworld, you're right i didn't really direct my comments to the original post. As far as a new country within the U.S., I would not give up my U.S. citizenship. I would rather keep my citizenship, but become a resident somewhere else. U.S. citizenship is too valuable to me. I did point out one of the values which is how easy it is to travel around the world with a U.S. passport.
                                  We'll see if this new country really is successful, it could be exciting.
                                  Comment
                                  • Jamie_UK
                                    SBR MVP
                                    • 01-12-07
                                    • 1103

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Willie Bee
                                    Are you saying there is no income tax to pay in the UK, or just that you don't pay it? And would you leave, renouncing your British citizenship, if on-line gaming was outlawed?
                                    Willie, your trying my patience .

                                    My income comes from gaming

                                    In the UK there is no tax on gaming.

                                    I cant make it more clear than that for you.

                                    Of course I would leave the UK if they banned it, 1) To carry on my "work" 2) Because I wont be treated like a child by the government like Americans are.
                                    Comment
                                    • Santo
                                      SBR MVP
                                      • 09-08-05
                                      • 2957

                                      #19
                                      It is not being placed where you are located. When Im playing poker, Im playing it in whatever country the site is from. I dont understand how I can be charged when Im gambling in another country....even if my physical body is in america, the game is taking place somewhere else.
                                      Your statement is a topic of much contention, and no conclusion has yet been drawn. It's especially important with Virtual Worlds., where there is an attempt to protect virtual property, plus the issue of whether the income is taxable, and where it would be taxable.

                                      As Jamie says, Gambling income is tax exempt in the UK.
                                      Comment
                                      • Destroyer
                                        SBR Sharp
                                        • 11-19-07
                                        • 416

                                        #20
                                        Hell No.
                                        Comment
                                        • ChuteBoxe
                                          SBR Hall of Famer
                                          • 11-21-07
                                          • 6885

                                          #21
                                          If I was that hard up for action, I'd call down to the Borgata, transfer my comp money to Vegas, stay somewhere nice on the house, and hang at the Hilton all day .
                                          Comment
                                          • Willie Bee
                                            SBR Posting Legend
                                            • 02-14-06
                                            • 15726

                                            #22
                                            Ok Jamie, understand now, but I have to think you are very much in the minority in the UK not paying any taxes on your income. Best of luck to you and let me know if your USA tour includes a stop in Texas.
                                            Comment
                                            • DrunkenLullaby
                                              SBR MVP
                                              • 03-30-07
                                              • 1631

                                              #23
                                              I'd consider it a lot more seriously if the Lakotas had land in any state that isn't zero degrees and desolate for months on end each winter.
                                              Comment
                                              • The HG
                                                SBR MVP
                                                • 11-01-06
                                                • 3566

                                                #24
                                                Neteller, legal gambling, no taxes on it, Britsh women who get sexually aroused in British accents - holy sh*t am I tempted to move to England!!! DAMN!!! But the food sucks, right? And London is expensive, right? And the weather sucks, right? What else is bad about it?
                                                Comment
                                                • Dark Horse
                                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                                  • 12-14-05
                                                  • 13764

                                                  #25
                                                  They have no injuns.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • durito
                                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                                    • 07-03-06
                                                    • 13173

                                                    #26
                                                    If I could have citizenship in say the UK or Australia, I would give up my US citizenship tomorrow. It's completely ****ing ridiculous that they tax me even though I don't live there. But, for now, the benefits of the US passport outweigh the negatives.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • 20Four7
                                                      SBR Hall of Famer
                                                      • 04-08-07
                                                      • 6703

                                                      #27
                                                      For someone to renouce their citizenship simply to bet on line (even if it's their livelyhood) is one of the stupidest things I"ve heard. For someone to move from the US to keep their livelyhood is different all together. If I moved from Canada for whatever reason, I certainly wouldn't renounce my citizenship.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • pavyracer
                                                        SBR Aristocracy
                                                        • 04-12-07
                                                        • 82839

                                                        #28
                                                        If you renounce your citizenship then why would you need to gamble online? Once you renounce your citizenship and move out of the country you can bet at the local bookies of the country you are living in.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • durito
                                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                                          • 07-03-06
                                                          • 13173

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by pavyracer
                                                          If you renounce your citizenship then why would you need to gamble online? Once you renounce your citizenship and move out of the country you can bet at the local bookies of the country you are living in.
                                                          huh what?

                                                          Doesn't matter where I'm living, I'm playing at Matchbook and Pinnacle.
                                                          Comment
                                                          • louisvillekid
                                                            SBR Hall of Famer
                                                            • 08-14-07
                                                            • 9262

                                                            #30
                                                            F*#K NO!!!! That scenario reminds me of an old skit from that show "Mr. Show w/ Bob and David" it was a comedy sketch show on HBO.
                                                            Back to the points at hand on this thread. The good thing about this country(USA)is that even though we might have people in power who have distorted views sometimes, they can only have that power for so long and then we can get new puppets on strings.
                                                            Comment
                                                            • donjuan
                                                              SBR MVP
                                                              • 08-29-07
                                                              • 3993

                                                              #31
                                                              I dont pay income tax
                                                              We have already gone over this, guys. Jamie is a chav living on a council estate waiting for that next dole check.

                                                              Because I wont be treated like a child by the government like Americans are.
                                                              If living in a country that is essentially a nanny state isn't being treated like a child, I don't know what is.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • Jamie_UK
                                                                SBR MVP
                                                                • 01-12-07
                                                                • 1103

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by donjuan
                                                                We have already gone over this, guys. Jamie is a chav living on a council estate waiting for that next dole check.



                                                                If living in a country that is essentially a nanny state isn't being treated like a child, I don't know what is.
                                                                If your going to try and use words like Chav and dole then its a Cheque not a check you phooooooooooooool
                                                                Comment
                                                                • donjuan
                                                                  SBR MVP
                                                                  • 08-29-07
                                                                  • 3993

                                                                  #33
                                                                  We use the word dole in the US, too, albeit less frequently. Chav is the only way to describe you. It differs slightly in meaning from the American "white trash" and the Aussie "bogan".

                                                                  Nothing to say about your nanny state?
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • Jamie_UK
                                                                    SBR MVP
                                                                    • 01-12-07
                                                                    • 1103

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by donjuan
                                                                    We use the word dole in the US, too, albeit less frequently. Chav is the only way to describe you. It differs slightly in meaning from the American "white trash" and the Aussie "bogan".

                                                                    Nothing to say about your nanny state?
                                                                    You can join Pube Head Richard and Old Threads on my ignore list, simply because you are a bore.
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • jjgold
                                                                      SBR Aristocracy
                                                                      • 07-20-05
                                                                      • 388179

                                                                      #35
                                                                      It seems like many guys here live and die by gambling and cannot function without it. As the months go on here I am starting to realize I really am not a degenerate gambler like most here. I have alwys said SBR has the highest compulsive gambling rate out of any forum.
                                                                      Comment
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