1. #36
    DrunkHorseplayer
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2bets View Post
    But when they shot the gun and she left early, was that not part of the race? If not, then what was it?

    I can see this one both ways.

    The rule is ambiguous.
    No it wasn't, because the runners stopped then went back to the blocks; then they ran the race without her. I do agree that all head-to heads involving her should be voided; if they didn't void the wagers in which she was picked to win, the OP has a strong case.
    Last edited by DrunkHorseplayer; 07-21-22 at 05:24 AM.

  2. #37
    pilebuck13
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    To be honest with everyone right now credit bookies are destroying the US scene so many college kids and youngsters so hooked and in debt

  3. #38
    infotimbo
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2bets View Post
    Did they void all head-to-head wagers on this race? The rule says "all competitors must leave the start line for action". So if it's no action for this matchup because she didn't leave the start line, then wouldn't all matchups be no action?
    in this context, "all competitors" means everyone is that matchbet (or group bet), and only refers to that specific bet.

    But yeah, the "leave the start line" wording seems to be the issue here, and difficult to argue against that. Normally it should be a clear winner, and I can't remember any other bookie (in other sports) ever grading a DSQ like a DNS.

    I don't think the rule is intentionally aimed at sth like this, btw. In cycling there isn't even a start line, so it doesn't make much sense at all.

  4. #39
    Brooklyn Dick
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    If they had an ounce of class {which they don't} they would pay the bet.

  5. #40
    MiDNiTe
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    It's like joker match at u.s open when he got dq, some books paid out result and some books refunded even though they had same rules, up to the book

  6. #41
    jjgold
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn Dick View Post
    If they had an ounce of class {which they don't} they would pay the bet.

  7. #42
    d2bets
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    Quote Originally Posted by big joe 1212 View Post
    That rule needs to be changed to “if the runner goes to the start line,” not “leaves the start line”

    But the book did word it the way they did for a reason. They clearly want the runners to actually race for it to have action.
    But wouldn't it be accurate to ay that she left the start line early? How can you leave the start line early without leaving the start line?

  8. #43
    big joe 1212
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  9. #44
    d2bets
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkHorseplayer View Post
    No it wasn't, because the runners stopped then went back to the blocks; then they ran the race without her. I do agree that all head-to heads involving her should be voided; if they didn't void the wagers in which she was picked to win, the OP has a strong case.
    She left the start line early, right?
    Riddle me this: how does one leave the start line early without leaving the start line?

  10. #45
    teddybreak
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natty68 View Post
    I know it's not relevant and none of my business but I'd be curious to know how much money are we talking about here.
    About 300 bucks.

  11. #46
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn Dick View Post
    If they had an ounce of class {which they don't} they would pay the bet.
    Now let's see if you ignore this question like JJgold did.


    If he had bet the woman who false started, would you be saying those rules say his bet should be voided too?



    Please ignore the fools. Bookmaker have always been very fair minded to deal with. And 1000x times classier (and smarter) than you or JJgold are Dick.

    They will do the right thing for Teddy and explain why if they still don't want to change grading.

  12. #47
    jjgold
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    A false start is someone that actually does attempt to run the race

    She was there and on the blocks

    Pay the man

  13. #48
    d2bets
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Now let's see if you ignore this question like JJgold did.


    If he had bet the woman who false started, would you be saying those rules say his bet should be voided too?



    Please ignore the fools. Bookmaker have always been very fair minded to deal with. And 1000x times classier (and smarter) than you or JJgold are Dick.

    They will do the right thing for Teddy and explain why if they still don't want to change grading.
    Absolutely not. She was on the blocks and false started. She lost fair and square. It's not like she was injured pre-race and didn't start. She attempted to race but failed.

  14. #49
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2bets View Post
    Absolutely not. She was on the blocks and false started. She lost fair and square. It's not like she was injured pre-race and didn't start. She attempted to race but failed.
    I think you are kidding yourself. or dont realize that same nongs carrying on like it clear would be arguing it should clearly be the opposite of what they say now in this situation.

    I happen to think you are wrong. But are also happy to wait and hear the BM justification before claiming certainty.


    Regarding your semantic arguments about her having to have started to be able to false start stuff..

    I think that there was one race for the medals and this competitor did not compete in it.

    And if wanted to make an argument the way you are would fire back with, "so you are claiming that there were two final races?".


    neither of those is a valid argument imho.

  15. #50
    pablo222
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    For all intensive porpoises, once the runners get in the blocks they are running the race.

    Pay the man his 3 peppers.
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    juicername gave pablo222 1 SBR Point(s) for this post.


  16. #51
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjgold View Post
    A false start is someone that actually does attempt to run the race

    She was there and on the blocks

    Pay the man
    The rules do not say "attempt to run race"

    They say cross the starting line.

    This runner never crossed the starting line after the starting signal.

    If the OP had bet on her and was here complaining his bet should be void and not lost based on these rules, I would not be discussing opinions, I would be saying it is 100% clear this should be a void. I'm just being nice and trying to be open minded for him even sending him to BM really.

  17. #52
    teddybreak
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    I think that there was one race for the medals and this competitor did not compete in it.
    These matchups are about who finishes higher in the competition, not whoever finishes higher in the final. I have had matchups with both athletes not qualifying for the final. Then the matchup is decided by whoever is fastest in the semi final-stage, as they are listed in the official result. When only one of two qualifies for the final that athlete is considered to have won the matchup, doesn't matter if one of two did not take part in the final (as long as both took part in the competition).

  18. #53
    KVB
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    I'm torn here, to be honest. I do think they should address DQ's from false starts in the rules.

    That said, if you look at the OP's link, and the results of the races, you'll see that the DQ'd racers actually did not run in the race in which times were recorded. They didn't get out of the blocks with everyone else on not finish, they technically, in those heats, once fully run, Did Not Start.

    Again, I'm torn here, but can see the reasoning of the book.

    The rule shouldn't just be obvious, as it is, for a withdrawal, but there should be verbage addressing DQ's from false starts. Specifically, they should be acknowledging that a DQ from a Fase Start is the same as a Did Not Start.

    What if they run the race and DQ a runner at the end, for something obviously other than a False Start? In this case the both runners did "leave the start line" for the race that was ran.

    It is very, very easy to argue that both runners in the OP's situation DID NOT leave the starting line of the race that was actually run. The race that was almost run, but called off due to a False Start, wasn't actually run.

    A DQ from a False Start is the same as if the DQ'd runner had declared COVID the day before the races and withdrew, never showing.

    The DQ'd runner did not start the race that was ran.

    This is a fact.

    It should be clarified in the rules.

    Personally, I feel a DQ is a loss and the head to head should stand.

    But that is not what the rules say, as written.

  19. #54
    teddybreak
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    The rules do not say "attempt to run race"

    They say cross the starting line.

    This runner never crossed the starting line after the starting signal.

    If the OP had bet on her and was here complaining his bet should be void and not lost based on these rules, I would not be discussing opinions, I would be saying it is 100% clear this should be a void. I'm just being nice and trying to be open minded for him even sending him to BM really.
    I have been on the other side of these, losing bets when an athlete false started. Don't know if it was at Bookmaker, as I can't go back in my history before 2022 though.

    No reason to void these kind of bets, no matter how much it sucks to lose a bet this way.

  20. #55
    KVB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    The rules do not say "attempt to run race"

    They say cross the starting line.

    This runner never crossed the starting line after the starting signal....
    This is very important. It also true.

    The DQ'd runner never crossed the starting line of the race that was ran. In fact, that runner never crossed the starting line in any legal fashion.

    It is a fact.

  21. #56
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybreak View Post

    These matchups are about who finishes higher in the competition, not whoever finishes higher in the final. I have had matchups with both athletes not qualifying for the final. Then the matchup is decided by whoever is fastest in the semi final-stage, as they are listed in the official result. When only one of two qualifies for the final that athlete is considered to have won the matchup, doesn't matter if one of two did not take part in the final (as long as both took part in the competition).
    Did both runners cross the start line, after the start signal was made, in any race after you bet?



    Do you bet NFL?

    If this was an NFL prop that required both your players to take the field at some point would you consider a player running 5 yards on the field for his teams opening play before being called back off the field by his coach before any snap was taken as "taking the field"?

  22. #57
    KVB
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybreak View Post
    I have been on the other side of these, losing bets when an athlete false started. Don't know if it was at Bookmaker, as I can't go back in my history before 2022 though.

    No reason to void these kind of bets, no matter how much it sucks to lose a bet this way.
    I feel the the rules should definitely be written to clarify the difference between a DNS from a withdrawal and a DNS from a False Start DQ (with the Flase Start DQ not actually being a DNS.)

    But as of now, as written, it is very easy to argue that the DQ'd runner never started the race.

  23. #58
    jjgold
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  24. #59
    d2bets
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    The rules do not say "attempt to run race"

    They say cross the starting line.

    This runner never crossed the starting line after the starting signal.

    If the OP had bet on her and was here complaining his bet should be void and not lost based on these rules, I would not be discussing opinions, I would be saying it is 100% clear this should be a void. I'm just being nice and trying to be open minded for him even sending him to BM really.
    You just changed the rules. The rules say nothing about "after a starting signal". It says "leave the start line".

    Again, she was disqualified because she left the start line early. If she left the start line early, how could she not have left the start line? Riddle me that.

  25. #60
    d2bets
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    Quote Originally Posted by KVB View Post
    This is very important. It also true.

    The DQ'd runner never crossed the starting line of the race that was ran. In fact, that runner never crossed the starting line in any legal fashion.

    It is a fact.
    She was disqualified specifically because she left the start line early. Again I ask: how could she leave the start line early without leaving the start line? Is this a riddle?

    I'm not sure what they intended, Perhaps it's as they say. But by the literal way it's written, she left the start line and so she should be action. Originally I thought it was ambiguous, but now I don't even think that. At least it's not a patent ambiguity. Perhaps it's a latent ambiguity. I've written articles about ambiguity.

  26. #61
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2bets View Post
    You just changed the rules. The rules say nothing about "after a starting signal". It says "leave the start line".

    Again, she was disqualified because she left the start line early. If she left the start line early, how could she not have left the start line? Riddle me that.
    I added that point to help you understand that she never crossed the start line at all in any official race.

    Does not require any rule re-wording.


    Did she cross any start line after any race was officially started?

    Yes, or no...

  27. #62
    JacketFan81
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjgold View Post
    They’re a bunch of scumbags I would never play there

    Downgrade to a C coming
    US-book shill JJGold has clocked in for his shift

  28. #63
    d2bets
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    I added that point to help you understand that she never crossed the start line at all in any official race.

    Does not require any rule re-wording.


    Did she cross any start line after any race was officially started?

    Yes, or no...
    The start line was there for this race. She crossed it. Again, you are adding conditions (after the race officially started) that were not written.

    I just don't see how she could be disqualified for this race for leaving the start line early and then say on the other hand that she didn't leave the start line. I just can't reconcile that.

    I ask you this: did she line up in the women's 100 meter race and cross the start line? She quite literally did just that, did she not?

    If the start line that she crossed had not been for the womens 100 meter, she would not have been disqualified in the womens 100 meter, right?
    Last edited by d2bets; 07-21-22 at 02:01 PM.

  29. #64
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2bets View Post
    She was disqualified specifically because she left the start line early. Again I ask: how could she leave the start line early without leaving the start line? Is this a riddle?

    I'm not sure what they intended, Perhaps it's as they say. But by the literal way it's written, she left the start line and so she should be action. Originally I thought it was ambiguous, but now I don't even think that. At least it's not a patent ambiguity. Perhaps it's a latent ambiguity. I've written articles about ambiguity.
    Every runner in the race probably walked across that start line before the race started.

    I am sure you would not be thinking that counted as having cross the start line and all bets should stand based on that walking around before the starter actually started the race.

    If it was before the gun, the race had not started, so she cannot possibly officially cross the start line.

  30. #65
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2bets View Post
    I ask you this: did she line up in the women's 100 meter race and cross the start line?
    No, she definitely did not cross he start line for that race.

    If she had a tantrum and false started on purpose even before the gun fired, would you count that as crossing the start line too?

  31. #66
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2bets View Post
    The start line was there for this race. She crossed it. Again, you are adding conditions (after the race officially started) that were not written.
    Now you're just being bullheaded.

    So you want to say she started a race, before the race was held.

    And I am making up rules to say a race needs to actually start for a runner to be called a starter....

    Roll with that if it makes you feel better and correct D2. We are just going in circles now.

  32. #67
    Stallion
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    To the OP, you got a refund end of story.

  33. #68
    d2bets
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    No, she definitely did not cross he start line for that race.

    If she had a tantrum and false started on purpose even before the gun fired, would you count that as crossing the start line too?
    Well then why was she disqualified for that race?

    This is like an Abbott and Costello routine? Who's on second?

  34. #69
    d2bets
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Now you're just being bullheaded.

    So you want to say she started a race, before the race was held.

    And I am making up rules to say a race needs to actually start for a runner to be called a starter....

    Roll with that if it makes you feel better and correct D2. We are just going in circles now.
    Why was she disqualified in this particular race?

    Answer: because she crossed the start line for this race too early.

    That's quite literally what happened.

  35. #70
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2bets View Post

    Well then why was she disqualified for that race?

    This is like an Abbott and Costello routine? Who's on second?
    Because you seem to trying to say IAAF can't call off a start a race and replay it I guess Ollie.

    Attempt at a start being voided, means it does not count. Official start is all that counts.


    Seriously, try to come up with a cut off time before the gun fires that someone can cross that start line and it be valid for grading purposes?

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