1. #1
    big joe 1212
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    Should this be graded as a loss or no action?

    Mets to score first and win game.

    I think this should be graded as no action. The reason being is no winner is declared due to game being suspended in 2nd inning. Yes, Mets did not score first but since nobody can win this game, there are no winning scenarios.

    Bookmaker grading it as a loss. All other three scenarios will get graded as no action.

    No winners here, only losers. Not fair at all.

    Thoughts?

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  2. #2
    gauchojake
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    Mets didn’t score first but maybe check the TOS and see if you can argue the other way. It was probably graded as a loss as soon as the other team scored.

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  3. #3
    big joe 1212
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    Quote Originally Posted by gauchojake View Post
    Mets didn’t score first but maybe check the TOS and see if you can argue the other way. It was probably graded as a loss as soon as the other team scored.
    Yea, that’s what I was thinking. They put in a ticket. We’ll see what happens.

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  4. #4
    big joe 1212
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    My Pete Alonso over 1.5 bases was graded as no action even though he already had hit a double. It was the correct way to grade it.

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  5. #5
    Enikk
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    Has to be "no action." Books quick to take I tell ya.
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  6. #6
    Enikk
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    Although never know. I had a golf bet earlier in year I thought for sure would be graded no action until I read rules and was shocked it was like that at all books. I had a rd match-up. Hovland got sand in his eye in practice. Played 9 holes and withdrew. Thought for sure be graded like any other sport needing full round. Not the case in golf. You would expect it for full tourney but not a single round.
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  7. #7
    MOBIL19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enikk View Post
    Has to be "no action." Books quick to take I tell ya.
    Both Over 1.5 bases and 'first to score and win game' should be graded. Or both should be push/cancelled. I don't think books are picking and choosing, it's just a rule inefficiency making them look unprofessional. Bad look.
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  8. #8
    MOBIL19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enikk View Post
    Although never know. I had a golf bet earlier in year I thought for sure would be graded no action until I read rules and was shocked it was like that at all books. I had a rd match-up. Hovland got sand in his eye in practice. Played 9 holes and withdrew. Thought for sure be graded like any other sport needing full round. Not the case in golf. You would expect it for full tourney but not a single round.
    I once had a bet on a tennis player's 'team total under 11.5'. Match got cancelled via retirement in the third set and my bet was push/cancelled, though my player already scored 12 or 13 games at the point. These rules can be unpredictable but I think they are generally 'fair to the player'. Rules should be more transparent but with so many possible outcomes in many sports it's not easy to make them easy for all to understand.
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  9. #9
    JAKEPEAVY21
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    If both things need to happen to win, if one loses, that is a loss I'd imagine.
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  10. #10
    big joe 1212
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAKEPEAVY21 View Post
    If both things need to happen to win, if one loses, that is a loss I'd imagine.
    So here’s the four possible outcomes that are part of the wager:

    1. Mets score first and win = loss
    2. Wash score first and Mets win = no action
    3. Mets score first and Wash wins = no action
    4. Wash scores first and wins = no action

    So books grade one scenario a loss and the other three scenarios equal no action. How is this fair? No winning scenarios. Book cleans up.

    I think this is similar (not same) as when you bet the under for the game, teams score 15 runs, then game gets suspended because of rain. Under had already lost but you get refunded.

    Im just glad it was a small bet for me. I don’t think I’ll be betting with this book again. Can’t trust a book that takes advantage and doesn’t see the common sense. Glad online wagering is coming to NY soon.

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  11. #11
    Otters27
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    Crooked books

  12. #12
    JAKEPEAVY21
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    Quote Originally Posted by big joe 1212 View Post
    So here’s the four possible outcomes that are part of the wager:

    1. Mets score first and win = loss
    2. Wash score first and Mets win = no action
    3. Mets score first and Wash wins = no action
    4. Wash scores first and wins = no action

    So books grade one scenario a loss and the other three scenarios equal no action. How is this fair? No winning scenarios. Book cleans up.

    I think this is similar (not same) as when you bet the under for the game, teams score 15 runs, then game gets suspended because of rain. Under had already lost but you get refunded.

    Im just glad it was a small bet for me. I don’t think I’ll be betting with this book again. Can’t trust a book that takes advantage and doesn’t see the common sense. Glad online wagering is coming to NY soon.
    It's essentially a 2 team parlay and you lost the first leg...move on you don't really have a leg to stand on. Apologies for being blunt but that's how I see it. Today is a new day, Joey...give 'em hell!
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  13. #13
    Kermit
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    My book would have graded it as a loss as soon as the other team scored first.

  14. #14
    allabout the $$$
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    2 scenarios are graded as a loss.

    wash scores first in 2 scenarios both lose.

    look at it as a 2 team if bet instead of a parlay scenario.

    mets score first is the first leg of the if bet. its graded a loser as soon as soon as washington scores first.


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  15. #15
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by big joe 1212 View Post

    So here’s the four possible outcomes that are part of the wager:

    1. Mets score first and win = loss
    2. Wash score first and Mets win = no action
    3. Mets score first and Wash wins = no action
    4. Wash scores first and wins = no action

    So books grade one scenario a loss and the other three scenarios equal no action. How is this fair? No winning scenarios. Book cleans up.

    I think this is similar (not same) as when you bet the under for the game, teams score 15 runs, then game gets suspended because of rain. Under had already lost but you get refunded.

    Im just glad it was a small bet for me. I don’t think I’ll be betting with this book again. Can’t trust a book that takes advantage and doesn’t see the common sense. Glad online wagering is coming to NY soon.
    How does any side win or lose in the 2nd innings for these type of gradings to occur?

    Sounds like if Mets scored first you get a void, if not, you get a loss. Full stop.


    The only way to answer this question is to consult their rules.

    Did they quote a specific rule? Or did you find a rule to support/dispute this grading in their MLB rules?

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  16. #16
    allabout the $$$
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    How does any side win or lose in the 2nd innings for these type of gradings to occur?

    Sounds like if Mets scored first you get a void, if not, you get a loss. Full stop.


    The only way to answer this question is to consult their rules.

    Did they quote a specific rule? Or did you find a rule to support/dispute this grading in their MLB rules?
    washington scored first in the first inning. right there its a losing wager. game got suspended in the 2nd inning.

    it really is a no win situation for the player unfortunately. id try and get a free play out of them since there was no way he could win essentially.

    that would be good customer service
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  17. #17
    big joe 1212
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    Yea, I hear ya AB$ and Jake. There’s valid arguments for both sides of this.

    From my perspective, I don’t see it as a 2 team parlay because that would be a correlated situation.

    I see it as there are no possible winners with this wager, only losers and voids. There was 4 options on this wager which I listed above. One gets graded as a loser and 3 get graded as void.

    My Pete Alonso over 1.5 bases was a winner because he got a double but was correctly graded as no action.

    Im not losing any sleep over this as it was a small wager. I was just curious to get other perspectives on this. If it was a larger $ amount, I’d fight it.

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  18. #18
    big joe 1212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    How does any side win or lose in the 2nd innings for these type of gradings to occur?

    Sounds like if Mets scored first you get a void, if not, you get a loss. Full stop.


    The only way to answer this question is to consult their rules.

    Did they quote a specific rule? Or did you find a rule to support/dispute this grading in their MLB rules?
    They don’t list a rule to specifically cover this bet. The closest thing they have is the first to score prop which I’m assuming they are using to grade it as a loser. As others have said, I think it was graded as soon as Washington scored.
    Team to score first

    Betting on which team will be the first to score in the game.
    Once either team has scored a run, all bets will have action even if the game is canceled or postponed, regardless of how many innings are played.
    If the game is suspended with a 0-0 score, all bets will have no action.

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  19. #19
    magpie878
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    Not exactly the same, but I have two bets pending with DraftKings.

    I had a sizeable bet on Washington team total over 3.5 runs +105 and a used a profit boost on Washington ML at +277.

    I thought they'd be voided, but still show as open (though that could change). Maybe because the game was only suspended and will resume in inning 2, the bets are still active?

  20. #20
    big joe 1212
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    Quote Originally Posted by magpie878 View Post
    Not exactly the same, but I have two bets pending with DraftKings.

    I had a sizeable bet on Washington team total over 3.5 runs +105 and a used a profit boost on Washington ML at +277.

    I thought they'd be voided, but still show as open (though that could change). Maybe because the game was only suspended and will resume in inning 2, the bets are still active?
    What’s their house rules with suspended games? With BK, they’d be voided as no action

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  21. #21
    magpie878
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    Quote Originally Posted by big joe 1212 View Post
    What’s their house rules with suspended games? With BK, they’d be voided as no action
    Don't know offhand and don't have time to look into it right now.. but I think I remember a soccer bet getting voided for something similar... but I really can't say for sure. I'll find out soon enough what the result is.

  22. #22
    thetrinity
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    looks like scenario 3 is also a loser since washington scored first?

    They will refer to the score first prop and call it a loser. They love to penetrate guys on these props if they can.

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  23. #23
    semibluff
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    I've never agreed with the idea of part-settle-part-void. If there is no result there are no winners or losers. As pointed out by the op an 'over 1.5 bases' bet could only be a winner or void, in which case it's void.

  24. #24
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by big joe 1212 View Post

    They don’t list a rule to specifically cover this bet. The closest thing they have is the first to score prop which I’m assuming they are using to grade it as a loser. As others have said, I think it was graded as soon as Washington scored.
    Team to score first

    Betting on which team will be the first to score in the game.
    Once either team has scored a run, all bets will have action even if the game is canceled or postponed, regardless of how many innings are played.
    If the game is suspended with a 0-0 score, all bets will have no action.
    I suspect this is the rule they are grading under;

    Any market whose outcome has already been determined will have action, even if the game is suspended after that point.

    https://get.bookmaker.help/hc/en-us/...rules-overview


    As far as a two part prop not needing both parts to have action being fair or not. I'll leave that to others opinions, but I do think this rule does cover this situation.

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  25. #25
    ronald
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    Quote Originally Posted by big joe 1212 View Post
    Mets to score first and win game.

    I think this should be graded as no action. The reason being is no winner is declared due to game being suspended in 2nd inning. Yes, Mets did not score first but since nobody can win this game, there are no winning scenarios.

    Bookmaker grading it as a loss. All other three scenarios will get graded as no action.

    No winners here, only losers. Not fair at all.

    Thoughts?
    True, but perhaps this is built into the price. In a traditional parlay you can have a push within the parlay and the parlay is recalculated. However, your situation sounds like a prop bet. In order to win the prop bet, all conditions must be satisfied. You're right that these scenarios seem to be gravy for the sportsbook, but again, it may be due compensation for the risk as reflected in the odds of the prop.

    What were the odds that you bet the prop at?

    What were the individual odds at the same book for a) Mets to win and b) Mets to score first

    Would be helpful to know these facts.
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  26. #26
    big joe 1212
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    Quote Originally Posted by thetrinity View Post
    looks like scenario 3 is also a loser since washington scored first?

    They will refer to the score first prop and call it a loser. They love to penetrate guys on these props if they can.
    Yes, you are correct. Two scenarios lose, two scenarios no action. Ridiculous

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  27. #27
    big joe 1212
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronald View Post
    True, but perhaps this is built into the price. In a traditional parlay you can have a push within the parlay and the parlay is recalculated. However, your situation sounds like a prop bet. In order to win the prop bet, all conditions must be satisfied. You're right that these scenarios seem to be gravy for the sportsbook, but again, it may be due compensation for the risk as reflected in the odds of the prop.

    What were the odds that you bet the prop at?

    What were the individual odds at the same book for a) Mets to win and b) Mets to score first

    Would be helpful to know these facts.
    The prop paid +125

    I think the Mets were -215 and -125 to score first

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  28. #28
    Alfie White
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    Did the Mets score first? From what I can recollect in this thread, the Nationals did, right?

  29. #29
    goduke
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    Quote Originally Posted by big joe 1212 View Post
    Yea, I hear ya AB$ and Jake. There’s valid arguments for both sides of this.

    From my perspective, I don’t see it as a 2 team parlay because that would be a correlated situation.

    I see it as there are no possible winners with this wager, only losers and voids. There was 4 options on this wager which I listed above. One gets graded as a loser and 3 get graded as void.

    My Pete Alonso over 1.5 bases was a winner because he got a double but was correctly graded as no action.

    Im not losing any sleep over this as it was a small wager. I was just curious to get other perspectives on this. If it was a larger $ amount, I’d fight it.
    Itís weird that Mets score first Washington win was graded as no action. Thatís the part I would think would be graded as a loss too. Why do they consider that different?

  30. #30
    big joe 1212
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    Quote Originally Posted by goduke View Post
    It’s weird that Mets score first Washington win was graded as no action. That’s the part I would think would be graded as a loss too. Why do they consider that different?
    That’s a loss too. I wrote it wrong. See later in thread…

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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    I suspect this is the rule they are grading under;

    Any market whose outcome has already been determined will have action, even if the game is suspended after that point.

    https://get.bookmaker.help/hc/en-us/...rules-overview


    As far as a two part prop not needing both parts to have action being fair or not. I'll leave that to others opinions, but I do think this rule does cover this situation.
    That may be what they're using, but I disagree that it helps their position. The "market" was NOT already determined - only some conditions within the market were determined. It's ridiculous to say that the market has been determined when they are forced to void wagers. That rule would apply to something like o/u 7.5 runs and the two teams combine for 8 runs in the first inning. In that example, all outcomes for all possible wagers in the market have been determined.

    I hear what others are saying about this being similar to a parlay. But it's not a parlay. A parlay is comprised of separate plays, each having their own criteria. In this case, the two criteria are presented as a single, atomic unit. That single unit was not completed, and therefore, the wagers should void.

    I don't know how this will play out for OP, but the book is handling this incorrectly IMO.
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  32. #32
    milwaukee mike
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    bet should be a PUSH

    it's a single prop, it's not a parlay... no different than "team to score first wins"... yes someone scored first but nobody won

    there's 2 sides to the bet... "mets score 1st and win" and "any other outcome" (which in this case included the other 3)... if they grade the first one a loss then they would have to grade something on the other side a win

    no different than if they said "mets score 1st and win" yes/no... you can't grade the yes a loser and the no a push
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  33. #33
    Smokey McPot
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    Quote Originally Posted by milwaukee mike View Post
    bet should be a PUSH

    it's a single prop, it's not a parlay... no different than "team to score first wins"... yes someone scored first but nobody won

    there's 2 sides to the bet... "mets score 1st and win" and "any other outcome" (which in this case included the other 3)... if they grade the first one a loss then they would have to grade something on the other side a win

    no different than if they said "mets score 1st and win" yes/no... you can't grade the yes a loser and the no a push
    As usual Mike is correct, bet (at least in Nevada) would be graded as a push.

  34. #34
    Brooklyn Dick
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    If you can't win you can't lose.
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  35. #35
    magpie878
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    Just to follow up on my DraftKings bets...

    Before they resumed, I'd mentioned this to my buddy who uses various apps as well. He said DraftKings keeps them open, it happened to him before. That was the good news.

    Luckily, my over 3.5 Nats total hit early for the bigger win. I very much wanted to hedge my ML bet if they had a decent lead and it became worthwhile. Also wanted to take Nats over 6.5 once they had 4.

    However, DK kept that entire game grayed out. The odds for everything were constantly updating, but never green (bettable).... every bet remained gray the entire game and no live betting was ever allowed. So... my ML bet went to sheet.

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