william hill re-taking funds back after having successfully credited in bank account

MrX · 10-13-07, 11:50 AM

The rest of the story, please...

orlipide · 10-13-07, 12:57 PM

rest of the story?it's "live",real time..there is no rest so far!!

MrX · 10-13-07, 01:13 PM

I didn't mean the conclusion. I meant what was the reason given by the book for confiscating the funds and anything else about the story you're not telling us. Usually when someone complains about a high-rated book stealing funds because they don't like "lucky players", they're leaving out some important elements of the story.

In re-reading your original post, it looks like you're saying the bet was made when the match was already three minutes underway. I didn't notice that the first time. Am I understanding that correctly? And is that the reason Will Hill took the money back, or is there more to it.

This doesn't seem to add up. It looks like you're saying that they took everything back, including the original 3k stake which wouldn't make sense unless the debit card transaction had been reversed.

curious · 10-13-07, 01:14 PM

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe that the small print of most merchants who take credit cards states that the merchant has the right to reverse any transaction without your further approval.

I'm probably not explaining this right. Let's say you rent a car using a debit card. I know Avis will charge your card $500, even if the rental is $50. Later they credit you the $450. Then let's say a few days later they realize you damaged their car, then can then debit your card again for the $450 without needing your permission.

So, what happened was, the book credited your account, then reversed the transaction, debiting your account. I believe that the small print in whatever agreements you have with them will say they have the right to do that.

What I do when dealing with books is I have an account that I use only for that purpose and I never keep any real money in it until I am actually doing a transaction, then I move the money out of there as soon as the transaction clears. So, if I am going to make a deposit at a book, I move the money in just prior to making the deposit. If I am getting a payout I move the money out the moment the payout clears. This keeps the book honest. Something you would be smart to do is make sure that this special purpose account is not connected to any other accounts you have in any way. I would even go to a different bank to open this account.

The reason you don't want this account tied to any of your other accounts is that every bank has in their small print that they can take money out of ANY of your accounts to settle debits you have with the bank from ANY of your other accounts. So, let's say you get a payout, and then you immediately move the money out of there to a savings account, and you do it by a transfer between connected accounts, then a few days later the book debits your account for the amount of the transfer by doing a reversal. The bank may feel obligated to honor the reversal and may debit your savings account to cover the debit to your special purpose account.

orlipide · 10-13-07, 01:31 PM

answering to mrX:yes the bet is live on a live-in market,we didn't contact bookie yet because she's in trhe states for work,i know what you mean guys saying "i don't say the rest of the story",there is no rest..it's not a late bet,it's the 1st and the only one allowed for such an account...
answering to curious:yeah i see you what you mean,but how far can they go in the past???

increasedodds · 10-13-07, 05:03 PM

Usually when someone empties their whole bank account, they do it for a reason....

Anyways, why the heck would the bank let it go $7k overdraft? Shouldnt they have blocked the negative transaction? Maybe they were obligated by credit card agreements...

MrX · 10-13-07, 06:48 PM

So you're posting on here and "thinking about legal action" but you haven't contacted Will Hill about this yet?

Either there's more to the story or you're handling this very strangely.

orlipide · 10-13-07, 06:56 PM

well..it just happened,and the account holder is abroad for work..of course tomorrow she will call william hill,shall we bet they 'll say "security reasons" asking (as usually when you win) passport,bank statements and stuff and saying nothing more?

Santo · 10-13-07, 08:14 PM

I'd be surprised if they said that, usually they don't process payments in that case. I'd suspect it's something more obvious, like she was betting from your IP address and you've already been banned.

bigloser · 10-13-07, 08:30 PM

I suspect that there is more to this than we have heard.

HOWEVER

I do believe Will Hill may have debited the bank account without authorisation, which is very worrying.

It is not like damaging a car, as one poster pointed out, in such a case the agreement gives permission for such deductions.

orlipide · 10-14-07, 06:01 AM

ip address??no,it was har laptop..by the way she told me that trying to deposit some money in a different betting account(different bookmaker),she has been required for id proof,and her deposit didn't go thru because the fraud department of her bank stopped the transaction,so she gave up with them,maybe not really interesting bookmaker...would there be any record of that saying something like "customer id to be verified"?...well...these days we'll find out...

numptie · 10-14-07, 12:05 PM

Its interesting how many people post complaints on behalf of their partner. Why doesn't the partner post herself? Unless of course..........

MrX · 10-14-07, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by numptie

Its interesting how many people post complaints on behalf of their partner. Why doesn't the partner post herself? Unless of course..........

I know.

My apologies if I'm wrong about this, but to me this complaint reads like:

I totally thought I got away with <insert nefarious activity here>. I mean the money was in the bank and I was home free and then, zomg, they took the money back. Can they do this?

vanman · 10-14-07, 01:17 PM

just a plain and simple case of fraud

curious · 10-14-07, 01:37 PM

It amazes me how quick people on this forum are to jump to the defense of the bookies. I posted a case that happened to me and was hammered with "well you had to have done something wrong".

MrX · 10-14-07, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by curious

It amazes me how quick people on this forum are to jump to the defense of the bookies. I posted a case that happened to me and was hammered with "well you had to have done something wrong".

I agree with you in some cases, but this one is pretty weird. 9k is taken out of their bank account and they come on here before they even ask the book why. I think they already know why and that it's not "Will Hill doesn't like winners."

OP, If I'm wrong this will be an easy case. Send your details to assistance@sportsbookreview.com and if everything happened just the way you said, I'm sure this can be resolved.

curious · 10-14-07, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by MrX

I agree with you in some cases, but this one is pretty weird. 9k is taken out of their bank account and they come on here before they even ask the book why. I think they already know why and that it's not "Will Hill doesn't like winners."

OP, If I'm wrong this will be an easy case. Send your details to assistance@sportsbookreview.com and if everything happened just the way you said, I'm sure this can be resolved.

To be honest I don't really understand what the issue with william hill is. It seemed very confusing and complicated to me. Given that the poster isn't the person who owns the account, maybe they don't understand exactly what is going on either. Does the lady who owns the account even know that these posts are being made here?

I will say that I can't remember ever reading anything bad about William Hill.

vanman · 10-14-07, 02:40 PM

A losing bet that i had with hills,they mistakenly settled as a winner i didn`t realise this had happened until i received a letter from their accounts department requesting me to phone them to authorise that they could take the money from my bank account.

orlipide · 10-14-07, 06:45 PM

number one,i'm no the partner,
number two,will hill didn't call her before taking back money
number three,i've got more experience and knowledge of her in that,and it's just a post made to be read and take suggestion from this relevant forum
number four she called william hill asking why,but on sunday big managers don't work
number five.this post can tell more about william hill either in positive and negative
updates of the story next days.
nobody would be happy if any bookmaker would have taken your money after succesfully credited in your bank account specially after you might have spent such a money...

MrX · 10-14-07, 07:18 PM

Can you say, just for the record, that you really have no idea why will hill reversed the transaction to her bank.

SPECULATOR 13 · 10-14-07, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by bigloser

I do believe Will Hill may have debited the bank account without authorisation, which is very worrying.

That is the real issue here,once a deposit is in a bank account,how can anyone including the credit card companies just withdraw from it without notice and empty the account?If the card wanted their money back because the book ordered them too,they would have to ask for a refund from the customer as if it was a monthly bill.At the most i could except for them to "freeze" the account but to just empty it...?I would indeed go to court on this as VANMAN said this is a case of fraud.

QUOTES

rlipide
the
bet stands and is winning as well.bet correctly paid(6.3k winnings).
straight away after the match account reduced at ZERO maximus stake
allowed for football,nobody knows why(or is it
because they don't like winning and lucky customers??)QUOTES

How many times have you red this about those god-dammed U.K. books!!!What sickens me the most about all of this, is that THEY are STILL AFTER ALL THESE TESTIMONIES getting good ratings by the sportsbooks review sites even a LEGITIMATE ONE like SBR

!!! A U.K. BOOKS SHOULD GET A NOTHING HIGHER THAN A "C" rating

curious · 10-14-07, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by SPECULATOR 13

That is the real issue here,once a deposit is in a bank account,how can anyone including the credit card companies just withdraw from it without notice and empty the account?If the card wanted their money back because the book ordered them too,they would have to ask for a refund from the customer as if it was a monthly bill.At the most i could except for them to "freeze" the account but to just empty it...?I would indeed go to court on this as VANMAN said this is a case of fraud.

QUOTES

rlipide
the
bet stands and is winning as well.bet correctly paid(6.3k winnings).
straight away after the match account reduced at ZERO maximus stake
allowed for football,nobody knows why(or is it
because they don't like winning and lucky customers??)QUOTES

How many times have you red this about those god-dammed U.K. books!!!What sickens me the most about all of this, is that THEY are STILL AFTER ALL THESE TESTIMONIES getting good ratings by the sportsbooks review sites even a LEGITIMATE ONE like SBR

!!! A U.K. BOOKS SHOULD GET A NOTHING HIGHER THAN A "C" rating

Actually, banks, credit card companies, and merchants have agreements with each other that allow merchants to reverse transactions without your additional approval. These agreements are usually in the really teeny tiny print of your agreement with the bank, credit card company, and/or merchant. I say that with the assumption that what happened was that the book made a credit to your account, then not too long after reversed the transaction. If the credit and the debit were for identical amounts then it was probably a reversal. The merchants agreement with the credit card company allows them to say "oops, that credit was in error, here is a debit to correct it" within a given time period of the original credit. (Same for a debit which is in error). The bank would have the same agreement with the credit card company.

LVHerbie · 10-15-07, 04:21 AM

I had an employer make a deposit of several thousand in my account by mistake and it was gone within two days (without my knowledge both ways as I didn't see it for like a week)

bigboydan · 10-18-07, 03:42 AM

Originally posted by MrX

Can you say, just for the record, that you really have no idea why will hill reversed the transaction to her bank.

I was going to ask that same question, but you beat me too it MrX.

Dumb_lucK · 10-18-07, 04:53 AM

If you look at the posters statements on this it'd be pretty easy to see that:

1: he has no idea what's going on with the account, only he's spoken to someone who's not his significant other about their account and took it upon themselves to post a complaint/warning which gives no justification without more explaination to what the real case is

2: Did wilhil take the funds out? not determined yet

3: 9k withdrawan immediately after funds posted to account and suddently there's a 9.3k witdhraw putting the account holder into an overdraft? (Sounds like more to the story) I don't know about anyone else but I try not to withdraw 9k out of my bank for any reason and walk around with it

4: "number four she called william hill asking why,but on sunday big managers don't work" It doesn't take the big manager to answer a returned payment query.. a clerk can do this or see any problem on the account.

It's quite interesting however, if this was the case.. would this be the first case of a book charging back on a client? I mean we read all the time in threads how proudly clients charge back when they're unsatisfied? Perhaps they received a CB notification from the CC company and reversed their winnings? Im curious to see how this one plays out

Do keep us informed Orli!

orlipide · 10-19-07, 09:33 AM

hi,thx for the answers and suggestions as well..
a simple clerk couldn't give any answer because we found out thru whill security department that's a case of fraud.stories about ip address,same computer of someone else..i mean they suspect there is a fraud going on for such a reasons.what does fraud mean related to different ip addresses and different computers?
if i change address and i go to share an internet connection previously banned is it my fault???where is it written?if i put a bet on from a internet cafe' and for the same reason someone played before me where is my fault??or if i buy a second hand laptop or wherever in this world i put my bet on is it a reason to void bets and take deposit and being accused of fraud??
reading terms and conditions we found out that username and password can be shared or whatever happens to that it is going to be account holder responsability in case of loss,but in case of winnings as well i'd say...
dumb luck what do you mean saying funds back?do you mean deposit as well?by the way i've got an idea about what 's going on because i've been told the story..
does really make any difference if i post and take care of this forum or she does?
by the way solicitors are after the case..unfortunately just a legal opinion could be 1k...

MrX · 10-19-07, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by orlipide

by the way i've got an idea about what 's going on because i've been told the story..

Well for God's sake tell us, you big tease!

orlipide · 10-21-07, 06:31 PM

hi,days spent talking to solicitors..we're gonna send demand letter to bank and william hill as well,money laundering suspect could be a reason of reversing transactions.we see next days...

Dumb_lucK · 10-22-07, 07:18 AM

Good luck on trying to sue an online gaming company. As per your story, now it's fraud, ip matching, and a "Security Department" as I see Will Hill a highly rated book, I"m sure it's not a ploy to scam you out of your money or we'd see more postings of such on this forum and others.

Santo · 10-22-07, 09:31 AM

It's quite plausible to sue William Hill in the UK actually, depending on the nature of the case. He could sue them for fraud if it was fraud (I'm not convinced), but he couldn't sue them for a mis-grade (gambling debts not enforcable)

bigloser · 10-22-07, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by Santo

It's quite plausible to sue William Hill in the UK actually, depending on the nature of the case. He could sue them for fraud if it was fraud (I'm not convinced), but he couldn't sue them for a mis-grade (gambling debts not enforcable)

From 1st Sept 2007 Gambling debts became enforcable. Very useful info to know. You can now go directly to court and not bother with IBAS

tribet · 10-22-07, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by bigloser

From 1st Sept 2007 Gambling debts became enforcable. Very useful info to know. You can now go directly to court and not bother with IBAS

Why would you go to IBAS anyway it's run by the bookies but that is a good point regarding the gambling debts.

Santo · 10-22-07, 02:11 PM

Thanks for that BL. I've been out of the UK since before that, so wasn't aware it had come in already.

orlipide · 10-22-07, 04:08 PM

sorry i don't understand that sentence:
From 1st Sept 2007 Gambling debts became enforcable
can you pls explain to me in a different way?