[stevenash]

1) Compare Kirby Puckett's career side by side with Don Mattingly's career and tell me how Puckett waltzes in on the first ballot, with a huge percentage of votes, and Mattingly can't sniff the Hall?

I loved watching the both of them play, but besides one being an outfielder and the other being a first baseman, they were pretty much the same player. Both won multiple gold gloves and silver sluggers in consecutive years, that's an achievement when you are the elite defender and offensive player at your position.

I'm OK with Puckett being in the Hall (rest in peace KP) but I have trouble with the landslide way he got in.
I get it, he was a baseball writers dream, he got a lot of love.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...attido01.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...uckeki01.shtml


Hall of Fame question #2

NFL

I dislike the Jets, I'm a Giants fan, it's in our genetic makeup to dislike the Jets but it's almost a travesty that Joe Klecko isn't in the Hall of Fame, and once again, I had a strong dislike for those NY Jets sack exchange teams.

[jtoler]

Puckett hit for higher averages and for a little longer, series saving catch and walk off hr in Game 6 and 2 World Series rings, Mattingly along with the bombers never made it to a World Series during his career. Overall the stats arnt much different , both a batting title, one led league in hits 4 times the other 2. Mattingly has an MVP award which is huge, finished top 10 in mvp race 4 times, Puckett 7 times. Mattingly 6 gold gloves, Puckett 9. Mattingly 6 all star appearances, Puckett 10.

[jjgold]

Mattingly was a terrible big game player and the Yankees never did anything while he played he was a product of Ricky Henderson always on third base

[stevenash]

Mattingly was a terrible big game player and the Yankees never did anything while he played he was a product of Ricky Henderson always on third base

Fist five years Mattingly was not considered clutch, second half of his career he was very clutch,

[jtoler]

I think they look mostly at prime years, Mattingly had about 6 or 7, with the back problem those last 5 or 6 years he was almost a shell of the Mattingly of his prime years.

[DOM-Ganador]

I have seen them all a bunch of different times and on different TOP 10 type shows, and since the first time I saw it, my opinion of the Kirby catch going way the FUKK up is simply the best ever.

He had a lot of fun along the way.

[boneheaded1]

I completely agree regarding Klecko. No reason for him NOT to be in the Hall.

Regarding KB and DM, whenever a CF has equal stats with an all star 1B player, CF is always considered better player. The levels of offensive production expected are different for the positions. If you average against their positions rather than each other it's an easy answer to see.

[stevenash]

I have seen them all a bunch of different times and on different TOP 10 type shows, and since the first time I saw it, my opinion of the Kirby catch going way the FUKK up is simply the best ever.

He had a lot of fun along the way.

Yeah, Kirby played baseball like it should have been played, like a kid having fun.
This kid in center for Toronto Kevin Pillar reminds me of him with the superman catches.
Then you have Mr. Trout who's in a class all by himself.
My boy in KC Lo-Cain plays a beautiful center field too.

I heard a stat last night that Charlie Blackmon covers more ground in center than anybody in the game today.
Interesting, I know he's got monster strides, he's like 6' 4"

And everybody's favorite center fielder that we all forgot about.
Jim Edmonds one of the best that ever roamed out there.

This is off the bat of your Detroit Tigers skipper, and it was game seven of the NLCS
You need to watch this 4 times.

[El Nino]

Kirby was beloved. Fun guy, leader. "Jump on my back guys." That's the quote before Game 6 of the 1991 World Series.

He did this:



Then this:



As far as average goes. Puckett never hit .256 like Donnie Baseball did in 1990. Puckett hit below .290 in 1 season and it was his 2nd season in the majors. He hit .288. Puckett was a hitting machine. 2 World Series rings, guy was clutch in one of the most underrated World Series ever.

[funnyb25]

Yeah, Kirby played baseball like it should have been played, like a kid having fun.
This kid in center for Toronto Kevin Pillar reminds me of him with the superman catches.
Then you have Mr. Trout who's in a class all by himself.
My boy in KC Lo-Cain plays a beautiful center field too.

I heard a stat last night that Charlie Blackmon covers more ground in center than anybody in the game today.
Interesting, I know he's got monster strides, he's like 6' 4"

And everybody's favorite center fielder that we all forgot about.
Jim Edmonds one of the best that ever roamed out there.

This is off the bat of your Detroit Tigers skipper, and it was game seven of the NLCS
You need to watch this 4 times.

I watched it 5 times. Got better each time

[TheMoneyShot]

Mattingly isn't in the Hall of Fame? Wow. Not a huge baseball follower... but this is shocking to me.

He'll be in before he dies.

[GUMMO77]

Kirby's career was cut short, so that might have something to do with it.

But it's difficult for me not to be biased since I was a huge Puckett fan. Bob Casey announcing Kirby stepping up to the plate is one of my favorite childhood memories.

[stevenash]

How is Jim Edmonds not in the Hall of Fame?
That Houston 2004 series was for the ages.
He hit that monster walk off in game six, that ball was creamed.
Then he made that catch in game 7.

[El Nino]

Kirby's career was cut short, so that might have something to do with it.

But it's difficult for me not to be biased since I was a huge Puckett fan. Bob Casey announcing Kirby stepping up to the plate is one of my favorite childhood memories.

Fukk yeah! That and Kent Hrbeck doing the "Noooooo smoking" pantomime, but that drinking was ok. I always got a kick out of that.

[stevenash]

Kirby's career was cut short, so that might have something to do with it.

But it's difficult for me not to be biased since I was a huge Puckett fan. Bob Casey announcing Kirby stepping up to the plate is one of my favorite childhood memories.

Bob Casey's an all time great, John Gordon was a Yankee announcer for five years in the 80's before he went home to Minny.
Gordon left New York and we got saddled with Kay and Sterling, and Suzyn (yuck) Waldman,

[MinnesotaFats]

Kirby's career was cut short, so that might have something to do with it.

This!

But it's difficult for me not to be biased since I was a huge Puckett fan. Bob Casey announcing Kirby stepping up to the plate is one of my favorite childhood memories.

I was at game 6 and game 7. Never in baseball has a team been so identified for a period of success by 1 player with such an odd shape and unique style of play- the things that make HOF consideration go over the top. 2 rings- all Pucks doing....guy was the 2nd best batsman in the league for a decade (Boggs) and you have the tragic Shakesperian end of the career going into a season they were expected to be contenders again with Molitor as DH.

Much like many apply hypotheticals to Williams stats or Bob Fellers stats one need only look at what would have come out of even mediocre production....3200 hits, 300 hrs, 1400 to, .320 avg....

Mattingly was great for 5 years at a position not credited as being essential defensively. His issues come from having a longer career, dramatic drop in production, no rings, and being overshadowed on his own teams by Winfield, Henderson, and a backup really to Martinez when it mattered.

[stevenash]

I was at game 6 and game 7. Never in baseball has a team been so identified for a period of success by 1 player with such an odd shape and unique style of play- the things that make HOF consideration go over the top. 2 rings- all Pucks doing....guy was the 2nd best batsman in the league for a decade (Boggs) and you have the tragic Shakesperian end of the career going into a season they were expected to be contenders again with Molitor as DH.

Much like many apply hypotheticals to Williams stats or Bob Fellers stats one need only look at what would have come out of even mediocre production....3200 hits, 300 hrs, 1400 to, .320 avg....

Mattingly was great for 5 years at a position not credited as being essential defensively. His issues come from having a longer career, dramatic drop in production, no rings, and being overshadowed on his own teams by Winfield, Henderson, and a backup really to Martinez when it mattered.

Once again, I loved Kirby too (who didn't) and I say he deserves the Hall of Fame plaque, he got a lot of love by the writers his first time eligible is all I'm saying.

I'm thinking back to that 1987 Twins team, that team was stacked!
Kirby hit 28 homers that year and was fourth in HR's on his very own team behind Gaetti, Hrberk, and Brunansky, Bruno and Kirby were my favorites on that team. Thing I remember about Bruno was he went to Boston when I was working in Boston fresh out of tech school, in 1990 he was the regular right fielder, I was at game 162, final game Red Sox needed to win to get to the playoffs, they're playing the White Sox Brunanksy had to make a difficult sliding catch in right for the final out to preserve the win, he had a nice year for the Sox, got vertigo and was never the same. He hit a clutch triple that gamer too.

Another thing stood out, it was the first time I ever saw Sammy Sosa live, he was the right fielder for the White Sox, I was watching pregame, Sosa time after time from the Pesky pole would throw a frozen rope to the catcher. That was the second greatest throwing arm from right field I ever saw live. Man Sosa had a cannon. Who had the best arm I ever saw? Dwight "Dewey" Evans, the man Bruno replaced, Evans left town very bitter, he was about 40 years old, finished, he couldn't accept it, went to Baltimore for one final bad season, sad, Dewey spent his whole life with Boston just to hang on one stupid year and tarnish that all Boston record of his.

Another side note, I remember the Twins visiting Fenway in 1988, it was right after the Twins got their rings, we were standing along the wall between first base and right field when Frank Viola came over and was playfully taunting the Red Sox fans, he pointed to his finger at his WS ring, (why he had it with him I'll never know, but I bet it was just a replica, not the real thing) anyway he pointed to his finger and said, "I know you guys don't have one of these" with a good natured smile on his face.

Like I said that team was stacked, you had the four power guys, Reardon in the 'pen, Viola, Blyleven with the curve ball nobody could hit, that was one serious Uncle Charlie, don't forget Don Baylor was clutch in the 1987 WS too.
Juan Berenguer was God awful terrible, he was getting smacked by the Cards like nobodies business.

Good time, good times.

[jjgold]

Mattingly was always a pussy

TERRIBLE CLUTCH HITTER

[mngambler]

RIP Kirby? he was a woman beating piece of sh*t....rot in hell

[mngambler]

Here's an insight into the real Kirby...

One day, enjoying his retirement, Puckett was with Nygren when he
said he had to leave and go visit a sick child who was waiting to
meet him. Nygren said, "That's great, you get to make that kid's
day. That must make you feel good."
She says Puckett snapped back, "I don't give a s---. It's just
another kid who's sick."



Tonya finally called the Edina police
on Dec. 21, 2001, to report that Kirby had, over the phone,
threatened to kill her, she also mentioned earlier abuses. Her
husband was, she said through her tears, a violent man.


, "he started to become full of
himself and very abusive." He began to perform lewd acts in
public, such as going to a fancy shopping center, parking there,
then opening his car door and stepping out and peeing in plain
view of other people


Finally, Puckett found the limits of either and achieved or when,
last Sept. 6, in a suburban bar-restaurant called the Redstone
American Grill, he allegedly pulled a woman into the men's room.
She says it was against her will, and so was what followed.


Tonya finally called the Edina police
on Dec. 21, 2001, to report that Kirby had, over the phone,
threatened to kill her, she also mentioned earlier abuses. Her
husband was, she said through her tears, a violent man. Once, she
said, he tried to strangle her with an electrical cord. Once he
locked her in the basement. Another time, when he was furious and
she locked herself in a room, he used a power saw to cut through
the door. Once he even put a gun, cocked, to Tonya's head as she
quaked, clasping little Catherine in her arms.


She told of Kirby trying to strangle her with an electrical cord.

[MinnesotaFats]

......

Women never lie or exaggerate to extract money.

[teecee]

Way to ruin the thread, Buzz Killington.