Betmania Sports Book

[BuckyOne]

Part of the reason they give bonuses is to get customers. If we are going to take bonuses we have to treat the book right as well - or guess what - probably never get another bonus from them.

If we are a really good player we can win and play anywhere we want - aha - there are some places that do not want that and we have to know who that is.

[Bill Dozer]

I think what Optional was saying is that if the book doesn't offer the limits it had when the bonus was accepted, it would be ideal if the book offered the player the right to leave with a prorated portion. A lot of bettors don't want to bet at the lower limits and complain to whoever will listen. It works against the marketing expense of the bonus but the books don't usually see it that way.

On another note... It's not a new thing but I hate the risk/win for rollovers on free plays. Always sucks to hear from the guy who won a square 5 teamer and is stuck betting somewhere for the year. I know they do it for the scalpers but that will be a peeve forever.

[sweep]

any update on this? Thanks

BAUS

[BuckyOne]

I think what Optional was saying is that if the book doesn't offer the limits it had when the bonus was accepted, it would be ideal if the book offered the player the right to leave with a prorated portion. A lot of bettors don't want to bet at the lower limits and complain to whoever will listen. It works against the marketing expense of the bonus but the books don't usually see it that way.

On another note... It's not a new thing but I hate the risk/win for rollovers on free plays. Always sucks to hear from the guy who won a square 5 teamer and is stuck betting somewhere for the year. I know they do it for the scalpers but that will be a peeve forever.

Great post-it almost pushes-forces the player to be a scalper at that point. A player with free play can be a thoroughly dangerous player. Willing to take a shot - maybe something with higher odds.

[BAUS]

I think what Optional was saying is that if the book doesn't offer the limits it had when the bonus was accepted, it would be ideal if the book offered the player the right to leave with a prorated portion. A lot of bettors don't want to bet at the lower limits and complain to whoever will listen. It works against the marketing expense of the bonus but the books don't usually see it that way.

On another note... It's not a new thing but I hate the risk/win for rollovers on free plays. Always sucks to hear from the guy who won a square 5 teamer and is stuck betting somewhere for the year. I know they do it for the scalpers but that will be a peeve forever.

If after depositing for a bonus the book decides they no longer want your action at the original limits and they offer to pay you out your original deposit plus a pro-rated portion of your freeplay winnings or allow you to continue betting at lower limits, it is a no brainer that you should decline the pro-rating and meet the rollover at the lower limits. If the book decides they no longer want your action and CLOSE your account and only give you your pro-rated freeplay winnings, this is THEFT. In either case, pro-rating is bad for the player and in the second scenario is theft.



Suppose you deposit $1000 for a $1000 freeplay and bet the whole $2000 on the Browns +200 and win. Now your balance is $5000 and your rollover will be at a minimum 16x5000 = 80,000. Now the book either offers you pro-rating or closes your account and pro-rates your winnings. In either case, you will keep only a tiny fraction of your $4000 in freeplay winnings because you have virtually met no rollover. In this case, your prorated winnings will be only $50! This is either a horrible deal or an actual theft of $3950. You are easily much better off just meeting the rollover and declining their offer of pro-rated winnings. So for the rest of this post I will focus on the second scenario where they close your account and only give you pro-rated freeplay winnings.



Closing a player’s account and only giving them pro-rated winnings is something I have not encountered much of in my 15+ years in the business until recently. Books pretend like pro-rating is fair because the concept sounds fair, but the above example makes it clear that it is actually theft. There is no reason why the player should not be entitled to the full $4000 in freeplay winnings. If you had lost your bet on the Browns, would a book ever call you up and say “actually we regret letting you into our book because we see you’re a sharp player betting the Browns, so we are going to pro-rate your losses and send you back $990 of your deposit”? No. When you lose, you eat the downside. But when you win, they’re allowed to take away your upside?



The book is on the hook for the $4000 in freeplay winnings. Period. If they don’t want your action anymore at any limits and close your account, they owe you a payout of $5000 and SBR should support you on this. If they don’t close your account but lower your limits and make you meet the $80,000 in roll, that is unfortunately par for the course and my advice is to just eat it and meet the roll.


BAUS

[BuckyOne]

Wow, all great points - I would say stall on playing the free play but I had a place tell me after the fact that the rollover did not start on the free play until you actually played it and they knew how much to calculate.

This is such a two way street and I question the sanity off it. This is such a complicated system - they have to be running away the very customers they were trying to get? The players that check these rules out probably shy away from it.

They used to establish a separate account for free play-your deposit goes in one account-free play in another-so first you play the free play - no money lines over + 160-then the rollover was 6x and you could not win over 3x. When you meet the rollover the funds will travel to your cash account and you have good money if the rollover was met on the cash account.

I don't know their calculations but their 100% free play really only has a value of what? Maybe, 10 cents on the dollar? They are an entertainment book only! They do not book in the normal sense as they are a super clone - they depend on the premise that all of their non-sharp players will lose - you live and you learn in the land of the HO.

[BuckyOne]

This free play malarkey cost this player A lot of money! If these same bets are placed at a cash book -this player wins a lot of money?

[LBwolf]

BAUS...Hey thanks for everything....I appreciate all your input...Still am at 250 roll over, my figure is now at 3238 and I will play to their rules as even with their rules I have played 14630 in bets with the winning amount, which is the lower amount...I have 4892 to go....Today I hit two NCAAB Plays FYI 869 and 881 just some info for you. I will by Monday give em over 19,522 in Action, now if I win or not, couldn't tell you as I am no Fortune Teller, just a Smart Player...Thanks Everyone and I will keep all you guys updated with this situation...

[lonegambler23]

anyone who needs bonuses to bet doesent win

[ronald]

anyone who needs bonuses to bet doesent win

Agreed.

Don't need no bonus to come up.

[TheMoneyShot]

If this guy somehow rolls over the remaining amount.... still using $250 wagers.... anyone want to bet that he doesn't get paid? Sounds like that would be the next step.

Mania apparently doesn't like the heater this guy's on. Basically trying to rattle him.

[LBwolf]

Appreciate all the Feedback from all of you. And they are not going to rattle me as I have been at this game for over 40 years. Calculating the lower amount on all my bets i have rolled over 13,945 which leads me to have to still roll over 5576 and as of now my balance is 3077.50 as I have lost from app. 1400 this week. I will copy and paste in so you see I am not BS any of you. Was a good roll and again You Wager paid me out twice this week..No problems with them what so ever.

From 1/16/17 to 1/22/17 Select Week This Week 1 Weeks ago 2 Weeks ago 3 Weeks ago 4 Weeks ago 5 Weeks ago 6 Weeks ago 7 Weeks ago 8 Weeks ago 9 Weeks ago 10 Weeks ago 11 Weeks ago 12 Weeks ago

WIN/LOSS	-	-70	400	-1,163.57	-37.5	-160.6	-	-	-1,031.67
CASH IN/OUT	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
BALANCE	4,109.17	4,039.17	4,439.17	3,275.6	3,238.1	3,077.5	3,077.5	3,077.5	3,077.5

From 1/9/17 to 1/15/17

NEXT » Select Week This Week 1 Weeks ago 2 Weeks ago 3 Weeks ago 4 Weeks ago 5 Weeks ago 6 Weeks ago 7 Weeks ago 8 Weeks ago 9 Weeks ago 10 Weeks ago 11 Weeks ago 12 Weeks ago

WIN/LOSS	-	1,130.17	360	-356.31	820.71	500	664.6	700	3,819.17
CASH IN/OUT	-	290	-	-	-	-	-	-	290
BALANCE	0	1,420.17	1,780.17	1,423.86	2,244.57	2,744.57	3,409.17	4,109.17	4,109.17

[Bill Dozer]

If after depositing for a bonus the book decides they no longer want your action at the original limits and they offer to pay you out your original deposit plus a pro-rated portion of your freeplay winnings or allow you to continue betting at lower limits, it is a no brainer that you should decline the pro-rating and meet the rollover at the lower limits. If the book decides they no longer want your action and CLOSE your account and only give you your pro-rated freeplay winnings, this is THEFT. In either case, pro-rating is bad for the player and in the second scenario is theft.



Suppose you deposit $1000 for a $1000 freeplay and bet the whole $2000 on the Browns +200 and win. Now your balance is $5000 and your rollover will be at a minimum 16x5000 = 80,000. Now the book either offers you pro-rating or closes your account and pro-rates your winnings. In either case, you will keep only a tiny fraction of your $4000 in freeplay winnings because you have virtually met no rollover. In this case, your prorated winnings will be only $50! This is either a horrible deal or an actual theft of $3950. You are easily much better off just meeting the rollover and declining their offer of pro-rated winnings. So for the rest of this post I will focus on the second scenario where they close your account and only give you pro-rated freeplay winnings.



Closing a player’s account and only giving them pro-rated winnings is something I have not encountered much of in my 15+ years in the business until recently. Books pretend like pro-rating is fair because the concept sounds fair, but the above example makes it clear that it is actually theft. There is no reason why the player should not be entitled to the full $4000 in freeplay winnings. If you had lost your bet on the Browns, would a book ever call you up and say “actually we regret letting you into our book because we see you’re a sharp player betting the Browns, so we are going to pro-rate your losses and send you back $990 of your deposit”? No. When you lose, you eat the downside. But when you win, they’re allowed to take away your upside?



The book is on the hook for the $4000 in freeplay winnings. Period. If they don’t want your action anymore at any limits and close your account, they owe you a payout of $5000 and SBR should support you on this. If they don’t close your account but lower your limits and make you meet the $80,000 in roll, that is unfortunately par for the course and my advice is to just eat it and meet the roll.
BAUS

For sure. Prorating only works if its a cash bonus or a free play that wasnt bet yet. If a player has $100 in free play and so far bet half the rollover before the book says "Ut oh ya got to go!" they might propose giving him $25 (assuming FP worth half of cash bonus). But most sharps wouldn't bother in this scenario. If the player wins the cash and the book wants him out, their best bet is to just cash him out instead of beatin him up on confirmation delays and low limits.

That said, $250 in itself is not too low. But in the context of a player winning a huge dog or $10,000 futures bet, where the player is already screwed for earning an extra big rollover, that can turn a 40 bet rollover into 80 bets.

[LBwolf]

Here is the latest after wagering about 22,000 in bets I lost this week but still have 1485 in there. I requested a payout via check for 1000 over 3 hours ago and the money is still in my account. Called spoke to Mary in CS and said they will take out the money today sometime. I am not gonna wager more than 435 as they charge 50 check fee as well. I will keep you all updated if and what Actions they take...Below is my History for last week...

History

« PREVFrom 1/16/17 to 1/22/17

NEXT » Select Week This Week 1 Weeks ago 2 Weeks ago 3 Weeks ago 4 Weeks ago 5 Weeks ago 6 Weeks ago 7 Weeks ago 8 Weeks ago 9 Weeks ago 10 Weeks ago 11 Weeks ago 12 Weeks ago

WIN/LOSS	-	-70	400	-1,163.57	-37.5	-160.6	-528.5	-1,063.18	-2,623.35
CASH IN/OUT	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
BALANCE	4,109.17	4,039.17	4,439.17	3,275.6	3,238.1	3,077.5	2,549	1,485.82	1,485.82

[allabout the $$$]

you did what they wanted and gave back 3/4 of the money. those rollovers are a bitch

[LBwolf]

Here is the latest as I spoke to Sheila in CS...I used to be able to buy 1.5 point in College Hoops, now they changed My Profile so that I can only buy 1 Full Point. However she promises me that that they will send me a check out tomorrow for 1000. Stay tuned as one of those Walt Disney Characters used to say....Bugs Bunny - What's up Doc !!!

[LBwolf]

Response to All About the Money....Yep I am a player...if they send me 1000 as per their word I still profit 710 but I had to play over 21000 in action to get it....As like most things in Life had to learn the Hard Way....Nobody is as good as You Wager as they pay Fast and Big Amount and no BS with their small roll overs with bonusus

[LBwolf]

Had to speak to Mike Hurst at Betmania and they released a check to me today for 1000. This guy Mike I respect much and does what he says. If you play there from my experience I would speak to him first and then proceed. If I get the check I will play there again but I now know what the rules are and would not most likely take a bonus. Like most things in Life, You Learn from Experience.

[LBwolf]

Now I am not able to log into my account as I called CSR Caesar and he has to check with management why I am not able to log into my account....O Man, hopefully I am going to get paid as I thought all was good, but now Who know What is going on....Will keep you all updated...Check is suppose to arrive later this week, but now I can not even log into my account...Maybe they don't want me as a player and if that is the case, I am fine with that as long as they are paying me....Will keep you all up to date on what happens ....

[LBwolf]

Just spoke to Mike Hurst, CS Manager, My Account is now suspended...He said the payment is being processed which is good, but now that I am familiar with their rules etc. Was gonna make another deposit with them for smaller type plays but at the moment not able too..

[unde0087]

Just deposit with another book and move on

[LBwolf]

Betmania decided to close my account because this is a recreational book and they said my activity is not so recreational. Sorry for any inconvenience they told me. Wow...That is a First...they said they are paying me as well....Well, I guess they do not want any Wise Guys playing at their book as I do use SCOUTS and all information I can get on my hands to try and win...What do Stores overseas think, that we are not going to try and win...O well, just another day in the Life of a Smart Player...Will keep you updated when and if I get paid...

[LBwolf]

Mike Hurst called me CSM at Betmania...Good Guy, payment will be sent, but at the moment Betmania has the right not to take my plays...O well, so it is what it is for now....

[Bill Dozer]

Glad you are moving on LB. There are books listed above that are more your speed.

[LBwolf]

Bill, I have been with You Wager for about 20 years...Never a problem as if I do encounter problems, I contact Cory, Owner's Nephew I believe and He always has my back. Ernie and George in the Wagering Department are great guys as well. Still waiting to get my payment from Betmania...They said they sent me a 1000 check, but I should of won way more...but the Roll Over amount which was not made clear to me, eventually I would start losing.....Will keep you updated when I get paid....

[LBwolf]

Received Check for 1000 from Betmania as per CS Manager Mike Hurst. They PAID and that is a GOOD THING which is the Bottom Line. However I would be careful if you take a bonus, but if you get Hot and Win You will get PAID !!

[TheMoneyShot]

I think what Optional was saying is that if the book doesn't offer the limits it had when the bonus was accepted, it would be ideal if the book offered the player the right to leave with a prorated portion. A lot of bettors don't want to bet at the lower limits and complain to whoever will listen. It works against the marketing expense of the bonus but the books don't usually see it that way.

On another note... It's not a new thing but I hate the risk/win for rollovers on free plays. Always sucks to hear from the guy who won a square 5 teamer and is stuck betting somewhere for the year. I know they do it for the scalpers but that will be a peeve forever.

Bill I was doing some research on books like Mania who offer these amazing bonuses. It clearly states on Mania's page of their newest promotion 50% Cash AND 50% Free Play Max 1000. So if you deposited 2000 with them you would receive Free 1000 Cash and Free 1000 Free Play. 16X Rollover.

A similar book that's rated like Mania... claims... On this heavy type of promotion. Your MAX WAGER at anytime is 20% of your initial deposit. For example.... if you deposited 2000... your Max Wager until the rollover is completed would be Risking 400

They claim as long as you stay at 20% or under per your Max Wager... your wagering style would never be decreased. Maybe it's something to consider?