Need help from baseball bettors: double switch on pitching lineups means no action?

[JoshW]

A player bet the cardinals game on June 26. He bet a parlay with listed pitchers and those pitchers started. The problem was the book says other pitchers were announced and then only later did the teams switch back to origional pitchers. The player had no action on the bet. It seems rough on the player, but if that actually happen that is really the only way the bet can be graded. Does everyone agree? Anyone remember that game?

[EBone]

lakerfan, I don't remember the game in particular but I think the circumstance was surrounded by a recent trade the Cards made for Mike Maroth from Detroit. If I'm not mistaken, I think the Cards had some confusion as to when Maroth was going to make it to this Mets series. I'll go back and look to see if I can confirm that was the case.


E

[ion]

If the pitchers listed start the game, the bet should stand regardless of how many pitching changes occur between the time the bet is made and the start of the game. I know that Pinnacle applies this policy and also Sportsbook.

[EBone]

lakerfan, I don't remember the game in particular but I think the circumstance was surrounded by a recent trade the Cards made for Mike Maroth from Detroit. If I'm not mistaken, I think the Cards had some confusion as to when Maroth was going to make it to this Mets series. I'll go back and look to see if I can confirm that was the case.


E

If my theory is correct, then this should be an award for the player because Maroth pitched on the 25th. If the player bet the game on the 26th, even if Maroth was listed, that should be a no-brainer. Maroth wouldn't start 2 games in a row. Player should get his dough if my theory holds water.


E

[LT Profits]

ion is 100% correct. As long as his play was not graded No Action at the time the original pitching change was made, which some books do, then the bet should stand. It sounds to me like this play is being graded for the first time after the result is known, so it should definitely be a winner since his listed starters started.

[LGBoots]

I backed the Cardinals in that game Perez and Wellemeyer started & my bet was graded as a win.

[bigboydan]

I don't remember the game in particular

I remember that game Ebone. Larussa re-worked the whole rotation that week in order to keep Maroth on his 5 day pitching rotation. I believe that was the week where Thompson was suppose to start instead of Wellemeyer or Wells. However, what i do remember distinctly was the fact that Larussa changed his mind twice in less than a 24 hour span, and the books had Thompson posted on the overnight line.

[JoshW]

Guys thank you for the feedback. I am going to try to get the player paid on this issue.

[JoshW]

The books rules state:

Baseball wagers are accepted as "Listed." In the event of a pitching change prior to the game, all wagers on the game with said listed pitchers are considered "No Action". All wagers will be refunded to the customers account. Starting Pitchers must throw at least one pitch for wager to be deemed "Action". Each team's starting pitcher is defined for betting purposes as the pitcher that throws the first pitch.


Books says that they always cancel if a pitching change is announced and they won't pay. They also say Vegas rules apply when not covered. In this case I think Vegas rules would clarify the confusing wording above and the bet would stand.

[TheOffshoreGambler]

The bet should stand.

[Justin7]

Which book is it? The book is in the wrong.

[Halifax]

This issue isn't even debatable .. the book needs to honour the bet.

If someone makes a bet listing Joe Smith and John Johnson as the two starting pitchers, then no matter what happens in the time leading up to the game (rumours of an impending trade, an injury, or anything else that might suggest that one of the listed pitchers won't start the game), if these two pitchers actually do end up starting the game, then the bet is a valid bet.

The proper way to handle this type of situation is the way Pinnacle handles it .... leave the bet pending until the game actually starts, in order to see if the original listed pitchers actually do start.

Other books, such as WSEX, handle it differently .... they cancel any pending bets as soon as they get wind of a probable pitching change. The reason they do it this way is so that people who may only have a limited amount of money in their account, and who have bet the game with the original listed pitchers, will have a chance to get the cash back in their account in case they want to rebet the game with the new pitchers. The problem with this approach, is that if the original pitchers actually end up starting, then WSEX will be on the hook to honour the original bets that they cancelled ... and of course, the only players that will be calling WSEX to get the original bets reinstated will be the players who were on the winning side of the game, so WSEX ends up having to eat all those winning bets that they had (erroneously) cancelled.

[ion]

The books rules state:

Baseball wagers are accepted as "Listed." In the event of a pitching change prior to the game, all wagers on the game with said listed pitchers are considered "No Action". All wagers will be refunded to the customers account. Starting Pitchers must throw at least one pitch for wager to be deemed "Action". Each team's starting pitcher is defined for betting purposes as the pitcher that throws the first pitch.


Books says that they always cancel if a pitching change is announced and they won't pay. They also say Vegas rules apply when not covered. In this case I think Vegas rules would clarify the confusing wording above and the bet would stand.

It seems to me the rule is identical to the rule used by Sportsbook. Two years back I had a baseball ML wager with one of the books in their family. Before the game started, a pitching change was announced and they sent me an email informing me how they would handle the situation. Here is the template of that email:

Dear Sir/Madam,

This email is to notify you that your bet <bet id> for account <account id> on www.<sportsbook>.com may be no-actioned because of a probable pitching change, that is:In the <Team 1> vs <Team 2> game, played at hh:mm pm EST, playing for the <Team 2>, <Pitcher 1> has been replaced by <Pitcher 2>.

If the pitcher change remains in effect, your wager will be no-actioned when the game goes off. If you have a Parlay including this game, the parlay will be reduced by one game. (eg: A 10 team parlay will drop to a 9 team parlay). If the pitching change is reversed, then your bets will stand as originally made. If time permits, please feel free to place a wager with the adjusted odds and new pitcher.

Sincerely,

The staff at www.<sportsbook>.com

[MrX]

I have to agree 100% with Halifax. If you have a ticket with two pitchers listed by name on a specific date, and they start on that date, you must have action.

Certainly that quote from their rules is not written clearly enough to justify canceling the bet.

[RickySteve]

I have encountered this situation several times and the books have always paid. With WSEX and VIP, the bets were cancelled initially. After contacting management, they were graded. I assume this conflict is with sportsbook.com, who is known to not follow this standard policy.

[Doug]

bet is valid,IMO.

[JoshW]

Thank you for all the feedback guys. The book resolved this in the players favor in the end. It was the sportsbook.com family of books. If anyone else was in this situation email me at josh@sportsbookreview.com and we should be able to resolve it.