U.S Neteller customers and the IRS

marc · 03-26-07, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by JBC77

I read a thread here about ,"what was your biggest withdrawl from an online sportsbook". Some of those figures players stated were quite large. Only an estimated 5% of gamblers report that sort of cash on the yearly returns.

Many people jumped for joy when Neteller said they would release U.S players funds in 75 days. This is terrible news. They sold us out.

What Neteller failed to tell us....is the REAL DETAILS of the deal that they made with the Department of Justice. If your recall the press release, Neteller has hired a "forensic" accounting company to detail U.S records. For what you may ask? Well boys, they are turning that info over to the Feds and the IRS. Good deal for Neteller, bad deal for us. They will have each and every transaction you ever made on Neteller.

Now is the time to get your paperwork in order and correct your returns.

I don't think the concern is tyring to figure out who has or has not paid thioer taxes. I think the DOJ wants to know if anyone has been using Neteller to launder funds. They likely also want to know whther any online bookmakers reside in the US. Lastly they will want a detailed list of all the bankaccounts used by Netelelr's gambling merchants

JBC77 · 03-26-07, 10:33 AM

Marc, listen man. I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree. The U.S Gov went to alot of trouble to take down Neteller, so now after the deal it's all good? Don't fool yourself.

When a national team of IRS agents begins to comb through the records this is a likely scenerio: Okay, John Doe received from Neteller 5k, 10k and 3k on so and so date. Oh, thanks to the "forensic" accounting we know John Doe got these funds from gambling................and you don't think the government is going to want a piece of that pie. Again, don't fool yourself. Of course they want it.

I made less than 2k in my 2 years online, but I called my accountant and made the amendment to my return. My hope is when they get to my name and records I will be passed right over because I paid. No audit here boys.

Any amount of gambling profits over 500$ dollars is taxable.

JBC77 · 03-26-07, 10:37 AM

Just a quick example of how tight the gov is. I was at the casino last week, on my way out I popped a 20$ in the slot and by shear luck I won 1500$. Before they cut the check I had to fill out an IRS document declaring the win....which the casino will report.

There about 55 to 60 million of gambling money in Neteller and you think the IRS is going to turn a blind eye. No way in hell.

ShamsWoof10 · 03-26-07, 10:40 AM

I would agree with you and like I have been saying this whole deal on the so called gambling ban is just a way to set up something where what you are doing can be monitored for the sake of taxation nothing more... I mean come on guys in the past it has came out that the CIA used drug money to fund certain activity why would this be any differant... They want a piece of everyone's pie...

Tchocky · 03-26-07, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by JBC77

Just a quick example of how tight the gov is. I was at the casino last week, on my way out I popped a 20$ in the slot and by shear luck I won 1500$. Before they cut the check I had to fill out an IRS document declaring the win....which the casino will report.

There about 55 to 60 million of gambling money in Neteller and you think the IRS is going to turn a blind eye. No way in hell.

You won less than $2,000.00 betting online for over 2 years and you win $1,500.00 sticking $20.00 in a slot machine. That's funny!

increasedodds · 03-26-07, 10:58 AM

Some people need to look up the definition of forensic accounting. It has nothing to do with the IRS or our taxes.

It has to do with determining what amount Neteller made from the US, what their expenses pertaining to this were, what taxes they have paid, etc etc so the DOJ can levy an appropriate fine.

I still can't figure out why NT doesnt tell the DOJ to shove it up their asses.

Sean

JBC77 · 03-26-07, 11:32 AM

Obviously people will downplay this. Ask yourself one question? What does the DOJ want with the customer records? Answer:taxes. The "forensic" auditors were hired by Neteller to compile U.S customer transactions to be turned over to the DOJ and eventually the IRS.
They don't need our info to compile a fine, what does our info have to do with a fine. The U.S gov can fine them whatever the hell want.
Do this: If you had any gains, call your accountant. Explain the situation and ask for advice. See what they say. Would kinda suck if 6 months down the road your facing an audit or tax evasion because you didn't make the proper moves to head off the storm.

People out here seem to think the DOJ and IRS are going to make paper airplanes with our Neteller transaction records. It's almost laughable.

JBC77 · 03-26-07, 11:38 AM

Tchocky....I'm just a recreational gambler. I work 9 to 5.......I can't justify putting more than 100$ on any game. Work too hard for that.

JBC77 · 03-26-07, 12:04 PM

Lets makes this simple. No need to define forensic. DOJ gets our records and knows how much money we moved and when. Period.

A. Your return for a given tax year is pulled.

B. Your Neteller record reveals where, when and how much you gambled. It will also reveal what went back in your bank.

C. Your tax return will not match the financial records Neteller provided. The fun begins.

Someone please explain to me in a logical manner, why the IRS is not going to try to collect what they constitute to be lawful taxes owed to the government.

Ganchrow · 03-26-07, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by JBC77

Someone please explain to me in a logical manner, why the IRS is not going to try to collect what they constitute to be lawful taxes owed to the government.

It's a manpower issue. The IRS is simply not set up to do this in any systematic manner. There really wouldn't be a way to match up people Neteller accounts with federal tax ID numbers. And it isn't as if the IRS is currently lacking for people skirting their tax obligations, after all.

While you certainly should pay your taxes in full, it's unlikely that this is all part of some concerted effort by the IRS and the DOJ to track down gamblers not paying taxes on an additional few thousand dollars worth of income.

Justin7 · 03-26-07, 01:25 PM

If the purpose of this audit were for taxation, it wouldn't be the DOJ doing it. Their goal is to shut down untaxed internet gambling. Taking Neteller out of the US market will cut US gambling on the internet by about 50%.

That said, you should still pay your taxes.

Ganchrow · 03-26-07, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by Ganchrow

You certainly should pay your taxes in full.

Originally posted by Justin7

That said, you should still pay your taxes.

And don't do drugs and stay in school.

durito · 03-26-07, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by JBC77

I read a thread here about ,"what was your biggest withdrawl from an online sportsbook". Some of those figures players stated were quite large. Only an estimated 5% of gamblers report that sort of cash on the yearly returns.

Many people jumped for joy when Neteller said they would release U.S players funds in 75 days. This is terrible news. They sold us out.

What Neteller failed to tell us....is the REAL DETAILS of the deal that they made with the Department of Justice. If your recall the press release, Neteller has hired a "forensic" accounting company to detail U.S records. For what you may ask? Well boys, they are turning that info over to the Feds and the IRS. Good deal for Neteller, bad deal for us. They will have each and every transaction you ever made on Neteller.

Now is the time to get your paperwork in order and correct your returns.

Neteller did not announce that they would return US funds within 75 days, only that they would announce a plan to return the money. That plan could be to return the money in 5 years for all we know.

JBC77 · 03-26-07, 02:44 PM

Ganch, justin.....everyone else, thanks for contributing to this thread. Any time our information is compromised or we as gamblers face a situation it should be hashed out just as we have done.

The thing that is scary is that the IRS is such a dark horse entity. These people destroy lives. Takes houses, property, put people in prison, whatever they want.

It would just seem logical, that a tax collecting agency, if it had the information and the proof, would act on it. Especially a bunch of gamblers. We are not that popular. They take there directive from the same people that crashed an entire gaming stock sector....billions lost and they didn't even blink.

I just don't see these guys letting potential millions of tax dollars just vaporize and walk away....U.S funds were frozen and then given back to Neteller to distribute to us???????? I don't like how that smells.

Dark Horse · 03-26-07, 02:57 PM

Watch this.

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ShamsWoof10 · 03-26-07, 03:09 PM

I still am on the side of them doing it for taxation... To say that the DOJ and IRS are in bed together is not a stretch... The IRS can certainly be the second leg with the DOJ being the first to black lable gamblers and give reason for this taxation to implement a system where by "foreinscs accout specialists" are to oversee all domestic and international transactions...

WWTSblows · 03-26-07, 03:12 PM

My guess is they will do checks on those with a lot of money in withdrawals. What that threshold is, I could only guess. They probably just don't have the manpower or will to go over every last account with a withdrawal. In the end, they are trying to make money, not waste it trying to find every last cent.

Doesn't matter to me, I pay my taxes in full on my winnings.

gotsteam · 03-26-07, 03:25 PM

Unless NETELLER and their Attorney's required a "protective order" on said customer data, which FWIW is a simple thing, and extremely unlikely the USAO would have disagreed to, you can count on that data being available to and used by the IRS for Audits, locating of US Owned gaming operators, further prosecutions and who knows what else.

I really beleive if a protective order was not part of this settlement, NETeller has not only done their customers a disservice, they are potentially liable for any resulting legal issues customers may encounter, and should be held responsible.