I'm giving up on betting (rant)

**mjsuax13** · 11-23-23, 01:29 AM

The fees are outrageous. Even in Las Vegas they charge processing fees via the apps. It’s out of control.

**Easy-Rider 66** · 11-23-23, 01:52 AM

Considering most lose long term in this game you are better off moving on. However if you gamble disposable funds for entertainment purposes you will miss the game. Good Luck to you OP.

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 11-23-23, 02:10 AM

No worries on the rant. I think it's healthy.

You bring up some great points. Your post is not so much about beating the #. But: WHAT ABOUT THESE DAMN FEES?

I think we (USA+) are on the precipice of transaction fees for anything and everything. In the recent past, companies operate on credit. Charge it off, we'll collect it on the next cycle.

I'm seeing more and more restaurants that tack on a 3% service charge to Credit Card processing. Most consumers don't consider this to be big, so they'll just go along with it (for now).

What about Cash? Some places won't accept Cash. Why the fk is there a fee on top of normal service?

Don't want to sound dramatic on this. I think we're witnessing the un-winding of the credit system. Money can't operate on an endless cycle of IOUs. Someone is left holding the bag. Someone has to pay it off with a real asset.

**hehfest** · 11-23-23, 04:59 AM

I always look passed the fees if I get a deposit match bonus of some sort. That generally only works good with offshore once you dry out the US bonuses (most of which are first time deposits, etc.). It seems a solid offshore always one of them have a bonus you can run into. The roll just comes with it and that is a downside but you avoid worrying about fees this way.

**DJK** · 11-23-23, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by arie1985

I ran an excel file of deposits and withdrawals I have with Fairlay since 2020 and I'm in a negative -$1,500 ...
This is not a bad amount to "lose" from gambling over the years, however.

This doesn't take into account fees, to buy and sell the crypto, and a year ago crypto buyers/sellers would charge 3% - 4% per transaction, but today if I want to buy Crypto it's 10% !!

Now unlike my wife I'm not a frugal person, I'm really not, but if I need $2,000 worth of crypto that means $200 is lost immediately ... even if I bet $1,800 on odds of 1.91 (91%) I'd get back $1,640 ... that is $360 less than what I risked!

And let's not talk about the fee to sell back the crypto.

Of course I can keep it all in Crypto and use it but I don't like it, I don't trust crypto yet to hold money in Crypto.

Sorry for the rant, I feel like I should give up on betting not because it's not worth it, but simply because there is no normal way to quickly deposit and bet without triggering tons of security systems ... if I see the Lakers/Mavs at halftime 227.5 and the original line was 244.5 and I still like the under - I can't deposit within a 15 minute break of halftime ... depositing today takes time.

So bla bla bla... as it stands, currently, it's not worth it, not when it comes to paying these super high fees.

The alternatives of using offshore bookies who charge $50 for a courier check + 7 days, or for betting agents, who could still steal your money - no thanks, at this stage I feel like the risk doesn't outweigh the reward.

Don't you have a brick and mortar sportsbook near you?

I have tons where I am and I can just walk up to a cage and bet whatever I want and pick up the winnings as soon as the games are over.

No fees but the odds aren't that good sometimes compared to online sportsbooks.

**DJK** · 11-23-23, 06:36 AM

Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat

I'm seeing more and more restaurants that tack on a 3% service charge to Credit Card processing. Most consumers don't consider this to be big, so they'll just go along with it (for now).

It's a different thing, but these damn casino restaurants add on 15% service fee on take-outs.

Caesars' KWI Chinese restaurant does it and so does Borgata's NOW Chinese restaurant. Hard Rock's YouYu charges $3 packing fee per order item. It's already bad enough that they raised 50%+ on all menu prices. If it wasn't for the comp dollars that I have to use before they expire, I wouldn't eat in any of these restaurants just for the principle of them ripping off so much.

**arie1985** · 11-23-23, 07:10 AM

Originally posted by DJK

Don't you have a brick and mortar sportsbook near you?

I don't, no.

I was just posting a scroll here and for some reason it didn't go through and I am not going to write it up all again.

But in short, I've been betting for 20+ years, I did it all through offshore, UK, crypto, I'm limited in many websites, with Stake for instance I cannot bet more than $150 on the NBA, I could potentially pick $150 on over 219.5, $150 on over 220, then on over 220.5 but I just wrote here an entire story explaining how in this world it's almost impossible to bet like you wish.

Betting agents? BetInAsia found stealing user funds, try AsianConnect88 - I am blocked with them, we had a long dispute, my concern with betting agents is they won't process your withdrawal unless you fulfill imaginary "wagering requirements" and they would do it to you if they wish, including AC88!

I tried it all, just buying crypto is a pain today, the UK - tons, tons of questions if you try to gamble today with any provider, and quick to limit you as well. I have active accounts at sites like BetUK, LiveScoreBet - I know I can't do more than a 100-200 with them, at best, and even then they might give me troubles per reading their reviews ... William Hill - got limited as well now, by limited I mean I can't come in and bet 4 digits and bang, it's impossible, it used to be possible - but today - no way!

Try a betting shop in the UK, with cash - anything above 1000 - you would be asked questions, it's not what it used to be.

For me successful sports betting is like poker, it's about being able to deposit/withdraw instantly, with 0 fees, when you see an opportunity but you simply can't do it anymore.... the importance of being able to withdraw is crucial, you want to place your bet, and walk away afterwards. Not to be forced to keep on playing.

Anyway brick and mortar - where exactly? the only place that might take large volume is vegas and I'm not interested in living there. I have a life other than this thankfully.

**Optional** · 11-23-23, 07:20 AM

I feel like we had this discussion and offered a few solutions to not paying 10% in fees in the earlier thread https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...expensive.html

Not sure why you don't want to just stop paying such high fees. There are options.

**arie1985** · 11-23-23, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by Optional

I feel like we had this discussion and offered a few solutions to not paying 10% in fees in the earlier thread https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...expensive.html

Not sure why you don't want to just stop paying such high fees. There are options.

Well, after having a deposit delay by Fairlay I am blacklisting them from my list i.e. I won't be using them anymore, they're unreliable, and since AC88 and I can't do business together either, what are my options with crypto?

The only options are crypto, like you mentioned in the thread, but I don't see what kind of options are available... I have tried other crypto sites like Stake, BCgame, BetFury, got limited in all of them, very quickly, I'm not saying "got limited" as means to say I am en expert, but get a few 4 digit bets to win, and you won't be able to do high 3 digits anymore, that's how it works - With Crypto!

And not to mention, bitcointalk has some accussations against some of these so who knows ... anyway bottom line - you say there are options - which options exactly? There are none, other than paying high %.

I totally mean it. And even then you have to go through so many hoops and loops that it's simply not worth it. There are no proper options. Not anymore.

**Optional** · 11-23-23, 07:36 AM

I think last time we were talking about playing from Europe. Coinbase and Gemini are probably the most common ones used by Americans, now you are living there.

Someone using those from the US are probably better than me to give you their exact costs.

I know BTC fees are quite high right at this moment. If that is what has set this off? But using an alternative type like Litecoin is an option to avoid that. A thread around here with people discussing options to handle LTC.

**arie1985** · 11-23-23, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by Optional

I think last time we were talking about playing from Europe. Coinbase and Gemini are probably the most common ones used by Americans, now you are living there.

Someone using those from the US are probably better than me to give you their exact costs.

I know BTC fees are quite high right at this moment. If that is what has set this off? But using an alternative type like Litecoin is an option to avoid that. A thread around here with people discussing options to handle LTC.

I don't want to buy crypto from exchanges, I don't trust them, although I'm sure I could save 2% or 3% in the end of the day it doesn't matter - the post is not about the other thread how to buy crypto for a cheaper price, which I'm sure I could if I'd really want to - btw I found some for 4% - 6% since that thread, but that's not the point, my point here is not about buying or selling crypto.

I'm saying that even if I could buy crypto for 0% fees, there are no websites to use anymore, at least not for me, I am limited/blocked in so many websites, that I can't use a newly imagined website, I don't have that option.

I lost my trust in the system as well, I don't trust betting agents anymore or other sites, even Pinnacle in my case would have given me troubles that would have forced us to go in separate ways - I'm also blocked from Heritage and Bookmaker, per management decisions, here in the US - why? I don't know, and I'm not asking why.

All I'm saying is that I can't use any proper service anymore to bet, and that is after excluding the fees or the possibility to reduce the fees like we discussed in the other thread - again, that's not the point of this thread.

I'm here posting that I'm giving up on the possibility of betting how I wanted simply because it's not possible anymore, and it's fine, I'd have to look for other better things to do and hopefully will find it. Thanks optional.

**Optional** · 11-23-23, 08:00 AM

Good luck Arie. Hope you find something good.

**texhooper** · 11-23-23, 08:08 AM

Oh shut up already. Put the quill down and get back to gambling or don’t and go away. No need for all the bullshit quitting talk if you’re done gambling.

Tough love 101 buster brown

**Shark** · 11-23-23, 08:17 AM

Why do you have to deposit with crypto? Seems like PayPal or a direct link to online banking is way cheaper.

**arie1985** · 11-23-23, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by Shark

Why do you have to deposit with crypto? Seems like PayPal or a direct link to online banking is way cheaper.

Are you asking about UK websites?
Yes, you can use your debit card but I can't bet too much.

Every 30 days I use BoyleSports / WH to find a nice bet for 500, take it and then cannot bet again for 30 days. I'd probably keep on doing it as I'm in the UP from this but this is not a proper way to bet, it's barely even a side hassle lol.

Bottom line is if you want to bet more than that then PayPal or your debit card won't help you here. You would be blocked or limited by the website itself.

Unless if you're losing then maybe they will let you bet even 5 digits but thank god I was never in that position, I'm betting to make profits, not for entertainment. I don't even watch what I'm betting on.

**JAKEPEAVY21** · 11-23-23, 08:41 AM

Seems like options are available but you refuse to do them for whatever reason.

Personally have not had to buy any crypto from anywhere in over 5 years. I don't mind the idea of sitting on it but that is not for the feint of heart and you mentioned that you don't want to do that. To each their own and I can understand that but Optional also mentioned he gave you other options and you don't want to do those either.

Maybe it is best for you to ride off into the sunset if none of the multiple options to circumvent fees don't appeal to you.

**OldBill** · 11-23-23, 08:44 AM

lol with crypto it's going t o blow up in your face n then what? and charging you fees 10% omg you cant win vih is 10% + thiere 10% = 20 % you lose

**mjsuax13** · 11-23-23, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by texhooper

Oh shut up already. Put the quill down and get back to gambling or don’t and go away. No need for all the bullshit quitting talk if you’re done gambling.

Tough love 101 buster brown

**mdunlap3** · 11-23-23, 09:31 AM

I wish I was only down 1500 lol

**texhooper** · 11-23-23, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by mdunlap3

I wish I was only down 1500 lol

For real man like “oh boo hoo I'm down $1500” but wanna wax for 1500 words about some fees. Hit some damn winners that will pay for the fees and shut the hell up. Guy seems like an overall pain in the ass that no one wants to do business with anyway.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone

**lakerboy** · 11-23-23, 02:17 PM

Fees don't matter when you win. It's like that old if you win no juice saying.

**arie1985** · 11-23-23, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by lakerboy

Fees don't matter when you win. It's like that old if you win no juice saying.

When you win you get limited.
If you don't then issues start arising but that's ok.

**Housemoney** · 11-23-23, 10:45 PM

They don’t have bookies over there? It’s still the best option here unless your state has gone legal.