Can recreational players in USA offset winnings with proven losses?

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  • RudyRuetigger
    SBR Aristocracy
    • 08-24-10
    • 65084

    #71
    Originally posted by SamsNCharge99
    Congrats rudy on the win

    be careful when reporting it though
    Solid 10k win for me

    Amazing!!!
    Comment
    • RudyRuetigger
      SBR Aristocracy
      • 08-24-10
      • 65084

      #72
      Originally posted by Roger T. Bannon
      I think technically you can offset. The problem is that you are only getting 1099s for winnings. So when you have losses, they are taking your word for it. So you get a 1099 for $1,000 in winnings and you don't report it, you get a letter from them and they start charging you 6% interest on the shortfall. Now you have to file an explanation and maybe they take your word for it or maybe they make you pay it.
      Pretty sure they take your word for it, then if you get audited, you better have proof
      Comment
      • Roger T. Bannon
        SBR Hall of Famer
        • 06-28-18
        • 5139

        #73
        Originally posted by RudyRuetigger
        Pretty sure they take your word for it, then if you get audited, you better have proof
        Probably on small amounts. This is kind of unchartered territory. They don't actually have any rules on this, I don't imagine. The issue is that you are going to have your losses in separate accounts so if you are betting with one book, you don't have an issue. It is not something you have to worry about but if you have winnings at one book and losses at another, you have no way of reporting those losses or documenting them. It could create a headache and some anxiety.
        Comment
        • pimike
          BARRELED IN @ SBR!
          • 03-23-08
          • 37140

          #74
          You get a w-2g every time you cash out 10+ you have to account for cashing out that amount of money every time.


          Most don’t transfer this kind of money at a casino or book regularly so have no clue.

          This goes to the IRS not you so you don’t even know they reported it to them
          Comment
          • RudyRuetigger
            SBR Aristocracy
            • 08-24-10
            • 65084

            #75
            10,001 tomorrow tough guy
            Comment
            • Roger T. Bannon
              SBR Hall of Famer
              • 06-28-18
              • 5139

              #76
              Originally posted by pimike
              You get a w-2g every time you cash out 10+ you have to account for cashing out that amount of money every time.


              Most don’t transfer this kind of money at a casino or book regularly so have no clue.

              This goes to the IRS not you so you don’t even know they reported it to them
              Oh wow. I never even heard of a W-2G.
              Comment
              • RudyRuetigger
                SBR Aristocracy
                • 08-24-10
                • 65084

                #77
                Originally posted by Roger T. Bannon
                Probably on small amounts. This is kind of unchartered territory. They don't actually have any rules on this, I don't imagine. The issue is that you are going to have your losses in separate accounts so if you are betting with one book, you don't have an issue. It is not something you have to worry about but if you have winnings at one book and losses at another, you have no way of reporting those losses or documenting them. It could create a headache and some anxiety.
                Atleast 2 guys in this thread seem pretty fukkin smart


                And there''s just no possible way you pay taxes on 1 book but can't deduct losses from another

                Your juice would be through the fukkin roof when you add year end taxes
                Comment
                • pimike
                  BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                  • 03-23-08
                  • 37140

                  #78
                  Originally posted by RudyRuetigger
                  10,001 tomorrow tough guy

                  You really are stupid aren’t you. You probably didn’t know what a W-2 Dash G was Didier because you’re stupid you’re a drunk fool
                  Comment
                  • pimike
                    BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                    • 03-23-08
                    • 37140

                    #79
                    Originally posted by Roger T. Bannon
                    Oh wow. I never even heard of a W-2G.
                    Neither did I until I got audited. I know what I’m talking about, I had to pay a lot of money
                    Comment
                    • thomorino
                      Restricted User
                      • 06-01-17
                      • 45842

                      #80
                      Originally posted by Roger T. Bannon
                      I think technically you can offset. The problem is that you are only getting 1099s for winnings. So when you have losses, they are taking your word for it. So you get a 1099 for $1,000 in winnings and you don't report it, you get a letter from them and they start charging you 6% interest on the shortfall. Now you have to file an explanation and maybe they take your word for it or maybe they make you pay it.
                      Everything is tracked online and the documents are very easy to pull up if you are betting at legal sites.
                      Comment
                      • Roger T. Bannon
                        SBR Hall of Famer
                        • 06-28-18
                        • 5139

                        #81
                        Originally posted by RudyRuetigger
                        Atleast 2 guys in this thread seem pretty fukkin smart


                        And there''s just no possible way you pay taxes on 1 book but can't deduct losses from another

                        Your juice would be through the fukkin roof when you add year end taxes
                        That's got zero to do with whether you can actually report the losses and have the IRS not just require you to pay taxes on your winnings.
                        Comment
                        • RudyRuetigger
                          SBR Aristocracy
                          • 08-24-10
                          • 65084

                          #82
                          Originally posted by Roger T. Bannon
                          Oh wow. I never even heard of a W-2G.
                          Yet here you are


                          Go read page 5 on winnings you fukkin morons
                          Comment
                          • Roger T. Bannon
                            SBR Hall of Famer
                            • 06-28-18
                            • 5139

                            #83
                            Originally posted by thomorino
                            Everything is tracked online and the documents are very easy to pull up if you are betting at legal sites.
                            That is a lot more reporting than I would expect. But if you can print something off, it would at least give you some ability to offset losses and provide some proof. How many people are going to do this though? Probably not many.
                            Comment
                            • Roger T. Bannon
                              SBR Hall of Famer
                              • 06-28-18
                              • 5139

                              #84
                              Originally posted by RudyRuetigger
                              Yet here you are


                              Go read page 5 on winnings you fukkin morons
                              Come on. You don't know anything about gambling winnings.
                              Comment
                              • RudyRuetigger
                                SBR Aristocracy
                                • 08-24-10
                                • 65084

                                #85
                                Form W-2G (Rev. January 2021) (irs.gov)



                                Instructions to WinnerBox 1. The payer must furnish a Form W-2G to you if you receive:1. $1,200 or more in gambling winnings from bingo or slot machines;2. $1,500 or more in winnings (reduced by the wager) from keno;3. More than $5,000 in winnings (reduced by the wager or buy-in) from a poker tournament;4. $600 or more in gambling winnings (except winnings from bingo, keno, slot machines, and poker tournaments) and the payout is at least 300 times the amount of the wager; or5. Any other gambling winnings subject to federal income tax withholding.Generally, report all gambling winnings on the “Other income” line of Schedule 1 (Form 1040). You can deduct gambling losses as an itemized deduction, but you cannot deduct more than your winnings. Keep an accurate record of your winnings and losses, and be able to prove those amounts with receipts, tickets, statements, or similar items that you have saved. For additional information, see Pub. 529, Miscellaneous Deductions; and Pub. 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income.Box 4. Any federal income tax withheld on these winnings is shown in this box. Federal income tax must be withheld on certain winnings less the wager.Certain winnings that are not subject to regular gambling withholding may be subject to backup withholding if you did not provide your federal identification number to the payer.Include the amount shown in box 4 on your Form 1040 or 1040-SR as federal income tax withheld. See Pub. 505, Tax Withholding and Estimated Tax, for additional information.Signature. You must sign Form W-2G if you are the onlyperson entitled to the winnings and the winnings are subject to regular gambling withholding. Return the signed form to the payer, who will give you your copies.Other winners. Prepare Form 5754, Statement by Person(s)Receiving Gambling Winnings, if another person is entitled to any part of these winnings. Give Form 5754 to the payer,who will use Form 5754 to prepare Form W-2G for each person listed as a winner.Future developments. For the latest information about developments related to Form W-2G and its instructions, such as legislation enacted after they were published, go to www.irs.gov/FormW2G.
                                Comment
                                • thomorino
                                  Restricted User
                                  • 06-01-17
                                  • 45842

                                  #86
                                  Originally posted by Roger T. Bannon
                                  That is a lot more reporting than I would expect. But if you can print something off, it would at least give you some ability to offset losses and provide some proof. How many people are going to do this though? Probably not many.
                                  Disagree, it’s very easy to do.
                                  Comment
                                  • The General
                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                    • 08-10-05
                                    • 13279

                                    #87
                                    Do realize that FanDuel and drafkings plus other gambling companies are paying so much tax that the us government don't give a fuk about your ass unless they have a red dot on you for doing something terroristic. Paranoid, uneducated, egotistical ppl. Geesh. Fuk.
                                    Comment
                                    • pimike
                                      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                      • 03-23-08
                                      • 37140

                                      #88
                                      Example

                                      I cash in 10,000 on the Bacarrat table in total 24 hours. I cash out 10,000 at cashier window. They don’t care if it’s winnings or losing.


                                      They report it all as winnings.


                                      You better have detailed reports to prove it’s not winnings.
                                      Comment
                                      • RudyRuetigger
                                        SBR Aristocracy
                                        • 08-24-10
                                        • 65084

                                        #89
                                        Originally posted by Roger T. Bannon
                                        Come on. You don't know anything about gambling winnings.
                                        looks like you got buried, son


                                        hows that 1996 computer working out for you?
                                        Comment
                                        • Roger T. Bannon
                                          SBR Hall of Famer
                                          • 06-28-18
                                          • 5139

                                          #90
                                          OK, so you can report them as an itemized deduction which means you have to forego your standard deduction which it is not going to be worth for an average gambler for small winnings. So you are back to the problem of having a 1099 that you have income on and going to have to offset your losses. Not a position that I would feel too good about but I live in a state that I will not have to worry about it anytime soon. All of my gambling winnings go unreported.
                                          Comment
                                          • RudyRuetigger
                                            SBR Aristocracy
                                            • 08-24-10
                                            • 65084

                                            #91
                                            Thanks to the tax pros checking in
                                            Comment
                                            • The General
                                              SBR Posting Legend
                                              • 08-10-05
                                              • 13279

                                              #92
                                              I've worked in the sportsbetting business for over 20 years in many capacities. How many ppl I know have got caught up in tax problems as Players? ZERO......
                                              Comment
                                              • RudyRuetigger
                                                SBR Aristocracy
                                                • 08-24-10
                                                • 65084

                                                #93
                                                Originally posted by Foxx
                                                As noted several times in this thread, it is correct that as a recreational player you can itemize your losses up to the amount of winnings on a federal level. It can wreak havoc on your return though as it forces you to itemize. Also, it can jack up your Adjusted Gross Income and phase you out of certain benefits. There is a handful of states that do not allow gambling losses as itemized deductions and/or have other rules that have the gambling income treated different on a state level. Perhaps Mike's issue was on the state level.
                                                This guy clearly knows his shit
                                                Comment
                                                • pimike
                                                  BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                  • 03-23-08
                                                  • 37140

                                                  #94
                                                  Not here to argue with anyone.



                                                  I’m just telling you after my audit. I got screwed. I had to prove I was professional to get stuff written off as loses .

                                                  They tried to screw me big time.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • The General
                                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                                    • 08-10-05
                                                    • 13279

                                                    #95
                                                    Wanna be fukin pros. This entire thread is about nothing but chit.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • The General
                                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                                      • 08-10-05
                                                      • 13279

                                                      #96
                                                      And my friend, rudy thinks it's a hot topic or wants it to be. In reality, the kids are playing hopscotch here. Enjoy.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • RudyRuetigger
                                                        SBR Aristocracy
                                                        • 08-24-10
                                                        • 65084

                                                        #97
                                                        tax pros assume i am in an average state (the one with the most baseline rules)


                                                        So if I win 100k at fanduel



                                                        lose 102k at draftkings



                                                        make 100k per year at my job


                                                        what would you do with my gambling winnings?
                                                        Comment
                                                        • RudyRuetigger
                                                          SBR Aristocracy
                                                          • 08-24-10
                                                          • 65084

                                                          #98
                                                          Originally posted by The General
                                                          And my friend, rudy thinks it's a hot topic or wants it to be. In reality, the kids are playing hopscotch here. Enjoy.
                                                          uhhh i wanted to bet 100 points on it


                                                          mike said 10k dollars



                                                          relax and go back to bed


                                                          you are out of your mind if you dont think we are going to have my scenario above all the time
                                                          Comment
                                                          • Roger T. Bannon
                                                            SBR Hall of Famer
                                                            • 06-28-18
                                                            • 5139

                                                            #99
                                                            Originally posted by pimike
                                                            Not here to argue with anyone.



                                                            I’m just telling you after my audit. I got screwed. I had to prove I was professional to get stuff written off as loses .

                                                            They tried to screw me big time.
                                                            Yeah, if you get a 1099 you are going to have to report it and they are not going to be real interested in your losses at some other book. That would require some favorable treatment. In any case, you would have to stand on your head to get an offset.
                                                            Comment
                                                            • Roger T. Bannon
                                                              SBR Hall of Famer
                                                              • 06-28-18
                                                              • 5139

                                                              #100
                                                              Originally posted by RudyRuetigger
                                                              tax pros assume i am in an average state (the one with the most baseline rules)


                                                              So if I win 100k at fanduel



                                                              lose 102k at draftkings



                                                              make 100k per year at my job


                                                              what would you do with my gambling winnings?
                                                              That is the nightmare scenario. Try it and tell us how you make out.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • TommieGunshot
                                                                SBR MVP
                                                                • 03-27-12
                                                                • 1607

                                                                #101
                                                                Lots of wrong information here.

                                                                Here are the basics: https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc419

                                                                Here is a great article that goes into much more depth: https://www.thetaxadviser.com/issues...-gambling.html

                                                                Tax law says that all winning bets count as income and need to be reported, only exception is "Case law and IRS guidance have established that a taxpayer may determine gambling winnings and losses on a session basis." But "sessions" are mostly only helpful to the blackjack or slot player, not sports bettor. All winning bets get added up and entered as income; all losing bets get itemized, up to the point where they equal the winning bets.
                                                                To clear up a few things. According to tax law, W2s serve no purpose as far as what you owe in taxes. Any money won counts as income whether you got one of those or not.

                                                                Win-loss statements are also complete bullshit. I could go to a casino, start playing a slot machine, then when I saw it was getting close to a bonus round, pull my card and the casino won-loss statement would show me as a much bigger loser than I really was. I could do something similar with sports: find a bet where one book has +900 and another book has -900. Bet $10,000 on the +900 on my account, then bet $90,000 on the favorite with a ticket writer. About 90% of the time, the casino will have me recorded as losing $10,000, while 10% of the time I will be recorded as winning $10,000, but offset that with a losing ticket.

                                                                Here is another great piece on gambling and taxes: https://easy.vegas/gambling/taxes

                                                                Ultimately, when it comes to tax liability, the best thing a "recreational" gambler can do is to stop being "recreational". Act professional. Even if there is not a professional level income. As far as how it actually gets reported, that is between the individual and the IRS. But if there is ever a disagreement, solid record keeping can save someone a lot of money.
                                                                Comment
                                                                • mem5757
                                                                  SBR High Roller
                                                                  • 02-17-21
                                                                  • 122

                                                                  #102
                                                                  Originally posted by Roger T. Bannon
                                                                  OK, so you can report them as an itemized deduction which means you have to forego your standard deduction which it is not going to be worth for an average gambler for small winnings. So you are back to the problem of having a 1099 that you have income on and going to have to offset your losses. Not a position that I would feel too good about but I live in a state that I will not have to worry about it anytime soon. All of my gambling winnings go unreported.
                                                                  this is 100% correct. 90% of average people take standard deduction, being able to itemize losses DOES NOT HELP THEM. I've already made a concrete example of proof of how average person still get screwed.

                                                                  Originally posted by mem5757
                                                                  yes this is true, so even if you "offset" your winnings with losses you could still pay more in taxes since you have to forfeit the standard deduction if you itemize.

                                                                  lets use an example: single guy has 60k worth of taxable income from his job. he uses the standard deduction of 12k, now he has 48k worth of taxable income for that year.

                                                                  next year the same guy still has 60k in taxable income from his job, but now he has 20k worth of W2s from Fanduel. He itemizes and offsets them with 20k worth of losses from DraftKings, but since he itemizes he forfeits the standard deduction, so now his taxable income is still 60k, instead of the 48k that he was taxed on the previous year.

                                                                  So point is you want to try to avoid triggering W2s and 1099 forms whenever possible, because even if you offset them you still pay more in taxes since you are forfeiting the standard deduction and with gambling losses you are only allowed to deduct up to your winnings, unlike stocks where you can also deduct losses.
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • mem5757
                                                                    SBR High Roller
                                                                    • 02-17-21
                                                                    • 122

                                                                    #103
                                                                    Originally posted by The General
                                                                    I've worked in the sportsbetting business for over 20 years in many capacities. How many ppl I know have got caught up in tax problems as Players? ZERO......
                                                                    20 years ago is not relevant to today. sportsbetting only became legal in most states last year. why do you think government made it legal? it's so they can tax it.
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • ChiLLx
                                                                      SBR Hall of Famer
                                                                      • 12-24-11
                                                                      • 5412

                                                                      #104
                                                                      Originally posted by thomorino
                                                                      No, it’s not wrong. If you win a 10k bet than lose a 100k bet you have a net lose and no income so you owe no taxes.

                                                                      This is why people pay taxes at the end of the year, not weekly or monthly.
                                                                      This is completely incorrect for individuals filing at the federal level and take the standard deduction.
                                                                      Comment
                                                                      • thomorino
                                                                        Restricted User
                                                                        • 06-01-17
                                                                        • 45842

                                                                        #105
                                                                        Originally posted by ChiLLx
                                                                        This is completely incorrect for individuals filing at the federal level and take the standard deduction.
                                                                        No it’s not.
                                                                        Comment
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