dak is very overrated..

**2daBank** · 11-20-17, 01:09 AM

Didn't know he was already being mentioned as great? I've never heard that. Think most understand what he is, young kid who very poised who has had benefit of great run game and oline. He still better than half the scrubs in this league, certainly not top 10 tho, he could potentially be around there in coming years as he progresses.

**Kermit** · 11-20-17, 01:29 AM

Dak is a really good QB.

**SportsMushroom** · 11-20-17, 01:39 AM

if he continues developing he'll be one of the best

**DeathAdder** · 11-20-17, 02:05 AM

Take him over Romo any day of the week. Say, where's DONEy Romo these days?

Dak's a stud. Blame the terrible head coach in Dallas whose long overdue in getting a pink slip.

**Foxx** · 11-20-17, 02:13 AM

The offensive line was not really regarded as elite heading into the season and was only receiving mediocre grades through the first half of the season. Losing Tyron Smith the last 2 weeks has clearly hurt a lot. I think the jury is still out on Dak. He certainly has potential and I don’t see anything stopping him from developing into an elite QB. He’s not there yet though. Time will tell.

**jtoler** · 11-20-17, 02:55 AM

Sbr only place where 1 bad game will erase 25 good games if you lose your bet. Compare Brady and Peyton Manning's first 2 full seasons with Prescott's.

**SportsMushroom** · 11-20-17, 04:11 AM

Originally posted by jtoler

Sbr only place where 1 bad game will erase 25 good games if you lose your bet. Compare Brady and Peyton Manning's first 2 full seasons with Prescott's.

brady won the superbowl in his second year, technically though since he didnt play the previous year, he won the superbowl in his first year

**jjgold** · 11-20-17, 06:19 AM

many think he had career year

Dez Bryant is not good either

**ELNATURAL** · 11-20-17, 06:31 AM

he played very poor last night

**USCPHILLYGUY** · 11-20-17, 06:41 AM

I think he’s a great QB. Those INT’s he threw last night deff not his fault

**rm18** · 11-20-17, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by SportsMushroom

brady won the superbowl in his second year, technically though since he didnt play the previous year, he won the superbowl in his first year

People forget though Brady was not a good statistical QB until 2007, he was just a winner. His first 7 years in the league he never had a QBR over 92.6 and was a middle of the road fantasy QB.

**jtoler** · 11-20-17, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by SportsMushroom

brady won the superbowl in his second year, technically though since he didnt play the previous year, he won the superbowl in his first year

I was referring to stats. They were 9-7 reg season, Brady's stats cant hold water to Prescott's.

**2daBank** · 11-20-17, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by jtoler

I was referring to stats. They were 9-7 reg season, Brady's stats cant hold water to Prescott's.

The game has changed a lot even since Brady entered league. These days everyone stats better than they were 15 years ago. Fact is it far easier to accumulate good numbers in current NFL that shades everything to the offense.

**jtoler** · 11-20-17, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by 2daBank

The game has changed a lot even since Brady entered league. These days everyone stats better than they were 15 years ago. Fact is it far easier to accumulate good numbers in current NFL that shades everything to the offense.

What's changed? They threw the ball more than Prescott has. Brady and Manning threw a lot back then. First two years Manning 52 tds and 41 ints first 2 years. Brady 46 tds 26 ints. Dak has 39 tds and 11 ints(3 last night) season isnt over.

**tokio** · 11-20-17, 10:15 AM

Name 10 QBs in the league that you would take over Dak right now....

**2daBank** · 11-20-17, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by tokio

Name 10 QBs in the league that you would take over Dak right now....

Counting injured or not? I disagree with op, as I said I think dak been very good. He probably right outside top 10 of qb's I'd prefer right now (long term different story as he has much more time ahead of him than most I would take for right this minute). Upper middle half is probably where I put him this second.

**2daBank** · 11-20-17, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by jtoler

What's changed? They threw the ball more than Prescott has. Brady and Manning threw a lot back then. First two years Manning 52 tds and 41 ints first 2 years. Brady 46 tds 26 ints. Dak has 39 tds and 11 ints(3 last night) season isnt over.

Are you serious? Go look at totals from those guys early years compared to now. This season might be little lower than last few on average because of all the horrid qb play going on at the moment. I've seen enough of your post to know logic isn't gonna sway your opinion but fact is the way game being played even 15 years ago more favorable to qbs, when those guys came in it was right at beginning of the offensive revolution. What you saying doesn't hold water, you can find outlier years from greats going back to Morino, the fact they put up monster numbers doesn't mean it was just as easy to do so, it speaks to those select fews greatness. Dak not a all timer and never will be. He a nice qb not a legend.

**jtoler** · 11-20-17, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by 2daBank

Are you serious? Go look at totals from those guys early years compared to now. This season might be little lower than last few on average because of all the horrid qb play going on at the moment. I've seen enough of your post to know logic isn't gonna sway your opinion but fact is the way game being played even 15 years ago more favorable to qbs, when those guys came in it was right at beginning of the offensive revolution. What you saying doesn't hold water, you can find outlier years from greats going back to Morino, the fact they put up monster numbers doesn't mean it was just as easy to do so, it speaks to those select fews greatness. Dak not a all timer and never will be. He a nice qb not a legend.

Im only talking about stats. My logic is based on stats of these 3 guys. Im only judging their play from their position. They threw more and had worse stats. Brady had 1014 pass attempts his first two years, Manning had 1148 pass attempts, Dak has 810 pass attempts so far with higher completion percentages than both. His stats are better all across the board, thats the only thing Im talking about. How can you say he's not an all-timer, we dont know yet. But his stats are better than both of those guys to this point. Would we have thought after two years Brady and Manning would be what theyve become? Probably not.

**Sam Odom** · 11-20-17, 10:49 AM

Dallas is a crippled team right now... not a time to judge their QB

**2daBank** · 11-20-17, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by jtoler

Im only talking about stats. My logic is based on stats of these 3 guys. Im only judging their play from their position. They threw more and had worse stats. Brady had 1014 pass attempts his first two years, Manning had 1148 pass attempts, Dak has 810 pass attempts so far with higher completion percentages than both. His stats are better all across the board, thats the only thing Im talking about.

Right but my stance is simple. It is far easier to accumulate those type of numbers these days.. go back and look at leagues overall completion percentage back then compared to now (again this year probably down as we have unusually high amount of unqualified qbs at moment!). Back then you didn't have guys with these redic td/int rates. Windows were smsller as defenders were allowed to defend. Offenses now evolved and throw way more short passes. So many things have changed that make simply looking at the stats a terrible way to compare players.,

**2daBank** · 11-20-17, 10:52 AM

Toler, last part of question is Manning yes, Brady probably not.

**Inspirited** · 11-20-17, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by jtoler

Im only talking about stats. My logic is based on stats of these 3 guys. Im only judging their play from their position. They threw more and had worse stats. Brady had 1014 pass attempts his first two years, Manning had 1148 pass attempts, Dak has 810 pass attempts so far with higher completion percentages than both. His stats are better all across the board, thats the only thing Im talking about. How can you say he's not an all-timer, we dont know yet. But his stats are better than both of those guys to this point. Would we have thought after two years Brady and Manning would be what theyve become? Probably not.

You can't compare these stats in isolation. The NFL rule changes and emphasis has made it easier on qbs. The playing environment is different. I made this mistake in my teens when comparing the then current players to the qbs of the 60s & 70s.

**jtoler** · 11-20-17, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by Inspirited

You can't compare these stats in isolation. The NFL rule changes and emphasis has made it easier on qbs. The playing environment is different. I made this mistake in my teens when comparing the then current players to the qbs of the 60s & 70s.

But the stats are grossly different. What rule changes has Dak benefited from? Did those changes cause Dak to have a td/int rate far higher than Brady and Manning? Im just talking throwing the ball here, its not that difficult. Did those changes cause Manning to throw 43 ints his first 2 years? What big difference did whatever rule changes make that could factor into that.

**ELNATURAL** · 11-20-17, 12:02 PM

His throws last night were not accurate at all
Even 5 yard passes were thrown at receivers feet
He looked rattled last night and had opportunity to run for some first downs but forced bad throws.
I did not like what I saw from him last night. He can't play thru adversity and the only saving grace was Dallas running game.
Dallas coaching has hit all time low (if that's even possible)
Very bad and they will continue to be just that. It's a shame really.

**2daBank** · 11-20-17, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by jtoler

But the stats are grossly different. What rule changes has Dak benefited from? Did those changes cause Dak to have a td/int rate far higher than Brady and Manning? Im just talking throwing the ball here, its not that difficult. Did those changes cause Manning to throw 43 ints his first 2 years? What big difference did whatever rule changes make that could factor into that.

Yes yes yes. The whole offensive landscape has changed and it does exactly that. Causes everyone now days (with talent) to have insane td/int ratio and completion percentage.. a good way for you do go about this would be go look at the averages across the league when Brady and Peyton had those numbers and see how much better they were than the rest. Then do same with dak today and you will see his numbers not substantially better than norm.

**ELNATURAL** · 11-20-17, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by Sam Odom

Dallas is a crippled team right now... not a time to judge their QB

No excuse. Good teams fight thru injuries. Dallas has mentally challenged people calling the shots and players with talent but are stupid. You can be fast and catch a ball better then anyone else but if you can't use your brain you are handicapped. Coaching won't help unless they have people take over which won't happen. Same problem every year.

**jtoler** · 11-20-17, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by 2daBank

Yes yes yes. The whole offensive landscape has changed and it does exactly that. Causes everyone now days (with talent) to have insane td/int ratio and completion percentage.. a good way for you do go about this would be go look at the averages across the league when Brady and Peyton had those numbers and see how much better they were than the rest. Then do same with dak today and you will see his numbers not substantially better than norm.

I looked, there was less passing on average back then. Manning had the most passing attempts his rookie year than any qb that year. Last year there were 10 guys who had more passing attempts than that. They pass more today thats what I mainly can gather from just looking at the stats.

**Kermit** · 11-20-17, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by jtoler

I looked, there was less passing on average back then. Manning had the most passing attempts his rookie year than any qb that year. Last year there were 10 guys who had more passing attempts than that. They pass more today thats what I mainly can gather from just looking at the stats.

I think Quarter Backs are passing more today because the position is safer with most defensive players afraid to touch them.

NFL Rule Changes Are Here And You Basically Can’t Hit The Quarterback Anymore

**shadymcgrady** · 11-20-17, 12:47 PM

Dak is gonna be a stud, so obvious and easy to see

**klemopixx** · 11-20-17, 12:51 PM

He needs a better offensive coordinator. They keep running the same BS over and over. Eventually teams get film on you and prepare for it. If your star RB is out then switch up the game plan. They tried going to Dez a lot more and some of it worked but he ain't the same player he was years ago. Where was the screen pass? Cole Beasley came up small. They need to re-work that entire offense before teams figure out how to stop Elliott.

**2daBank** · 11-20-17, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by jtoler

I looked, there was less passing on average back then. Manning had the most passing attempts his rookie year than any qb that year. Last year there were 10 guys who had more passing attempts than that. They pass more today thats what I mainly can gather from just looking at the stats.

I havnt went back and looked or anything but I'm extremely confident average completion percentage was significantly lower than now. Td/int ratio id be willing to bet better league wide avg last few years than 15 years ago. None of this is me trying to take away from dak, I think he awesome, poised, accurate, truely great leader. However I don't think in 10 years we gonna be comparing him to manning and Brady. I think he top handful of the young 2-3 year in guys.

**jtoler** · 11-20-17, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by 2daBank

I havnt went back and looked or anything but I'm extremely confident average completion percentage was significantly lower than now. Td/int ratio id be willing to bet better league wide avg last few years than 15 years ago. None of this is me trying to take away from dak, I think he awesome, poised, accurate, truely great leader. However I don't think in 10 years we gonna be comparing him to manning and Brady. I think he top handful of the young 2-3 year in guys.

You may be right, he's accurate, but still doesnt have the arm talent as Brady or Manning.

**shadymcgrady** · 11-20-17, 12:58 PM

Brady and manning didn't have arm talent, their strength is between the ears

Favre and rodgers have arm talent

Would you prefer dak over Andrew luck at this point? Luck has the arm talent, dak has what brady and manning had

**jtoler** · 11-20-17, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Kermit

I think Quarter Backs are passing more today because the position is safer with most defensive players afraid to touch them.

NFL Rule Changes Are Here And You Basically Can’t Hit The Quarterback Anymore

To me it seems you cant hit them a second and a half after theyve released the ball as much as you could in the past. Brady used to always complain or make gestures to the refs even when sacked or stare down the guy doing the sacking, he probably started a lot of the changes, kinda like a bball player complaining about fouls all the time, I get a guy is standing upright an unprotected but he has a line and other players who are supposed to block, its football. I dont agree though with hitting a guy after the pass is released, unless youre in the air already trying to tackle should it be allowed. If he's released and you still get in a hit when you could have stopped yourself Ive never been for that.