[benjy]

You don't get fed up with Canada being the great unknown internationally?

Many folks think we all live in igloos.

Not really. The thing that does get under my skin is when things are misreported about Canada and listeners repeat it as gospel. i.e. Fox News denigrating our health care system

N.B. to those that would use Fox as a source. Fox News knows far, far, less about Canada than Wikipedia. If you are attempting to quote "facts" about Canada start w/ Google and Wikipedia and then continue on from there.

[THE_LOCKSMITH]

Trailer parks are normal in U.S cities. Wondering if you guys had a similar real estate boom when we did. Housing was pretty insane for a while there.

[sickler]

I was expecting this

[hels]

I miss the days when our troops only wore blue helmets.

Nowadays, I doubt the majority of people even know what the blue helmet means.

The Bush administration changed our military objectives the worst way possible.

[The Madcap]

Banks are much more tightly regulated - so you didn't see the crazy "Hey you work for Taco Bell, here's a $450k mortgage" boom.

No banks were bailed out either.

More commie bullshit from muldoon. What a shocker.

Actually, the "Hey you work for Taco Bell, here's a $450K mortgage" boom was the direct result of tightened gov't regulations.

Banks don't make money off of bad loans. That's why they don't give them out to be people with poor credit. At least, that's why they didn't give them out to people with poor credit until dumbfuk liberals like you started bitching about the fact that poor black people with poor credit were being "discriminated" against.

All that bitching led to politicians and lawmakers coercing the banks into giving out those idiotic loans or having their businesses threatened. The lack of regulation in the U.S. you're referring to was not about who the bank was giving loans too, but how the secondary mortgage market packaged those loans once they bought them from the banks.

Nice try guy. Maybe next time finish the research process before you go running your mouth.

But then that's the problem with you liberals, you always stop your analysis one step short, I'm assuming because it's always the step that reveals you're full of shit.

[muldoon]

More commie bullshit from muldoon. What a shocker.

Actually, the "Hey you work for Taco Bell, here's a $450K mortgage" boom was the direct result of tightened gov't regulations.

All that bitching led to politicians and lawmakers coercing the banks into giving out those idiotic loans or having their businesses threatened. The lack of regulation in the U.S. you're referring to was not about who the bank was giving loans too, but how the secondary mortgage market packaged those loans once they bought them from the banks.

Nice try guy. Maybe next time finish the research process before you go running your mouth.

But then that's the problem with you liberals, you always stop your analysis one step short, I'm assuming because it's always the step that reveals you're full of shit.

So the banks were coerced, but they couldn't be coerced to lend out the TARP money to thaw the credit market (like they originally promised)?

The banks made no money or had any part when they bundled them, got them stamped by ratings agencies and sold this shit?

You have a little anger you need to get off your chest?

[sickler]

BTW, Dwight, Shari and other Canucks who have been away for a long time and don't follow things over here:

Justin Trudeau, who called the environment minister a piece of shit is the son of the most famous Prime Minister ever in Canada, Pierre Trudeau. Y'all probably know that but you have been gone a long time.

Who can forget the pic of Trudeau doing a pirouette behind Queen Elizabeth's back. Classic!

I have to make this correction. The above pic had a dog shopped into the pic. There was no dog in that room.

Guess we have to pay attention where we get our pics from eh.

The original:

[sickler]

Trudeau with his buddy Fidel Castro.

[benjy]

More commie bullshit from muldoon. What a shocker.

Actually, the "Hey you work for Taco Bell, here's a $450K mortgage" boom was the direct result of tightened gov't regulations.

False. This makes no sense. If you've a non-tinfoil hat wearing source to support your statement I'd be interested in seeing it.

Banks don't make money off of bad loans. That's why they don't give them out to be people with poor credit. At least, that's why they didn't give them out to people with poor credit until dumbfuk liberals like you started bitching about the fact that poor black people with poor credit were being "discriminated" against.

Misleading. Banks make money, risk-free money at that, if they can sell off their loans (good or bad). This is where all those mortgage backed securities came from.

All that bitching led to politicians and lawmakers coercing the banks into giving out those idiotic loans or having their businesses threatened. The lack of regulation in the U.S. you're referring to was not about who the bank was giving loans too, but how the secondary mortgage market packaged those loans once they bought them from the banks.

I can't follow any logic here. It seems to me that you are arguing for Muldoon.

Nice try guy. Maybe next time finish the research process before you go running your mouth.

But then that's the problem with you liberals, you always stop your analysis one step short, I'm assuming because it's always the step that reveals you're full of shit.

Well, that's just unpleasant.

[sickler]

That's food for thought, benji

[The Madcap]

False. This makes no sense. If you've a non-tinfoil hat wearing source to support your statement I'd be interested in seeing it.



Misleading. Banks make money, risk-free money at that, if they can sell off their loans (good or bad). This is where all those mortgage backed securities came from.



I can't follow any logic here. It seems to me that you are arguing for Muldoon.



Well, that's just unpleasant.

Banks don't make "risk" free money unless the gov't backs it. Which they did when they told the banks to give out those idiotic loans.

This is how it all broke down.....

A study comes out during the Clinton Administration showing that blacks are denied loans at a significantly higher rate than whites. It did not matter that whites were denied loans at a significantly higher rate than Asian-Americans, or that the denials of these loans were based on one's credit ratings and pay stubs. No, all that mattered was that liberal academics felt like black people were being unfairly punished for being black, and therefore, their actual ability to pay a loan be damned, they should get one, so they can buy a house and more democrats can get elected to congress.

And so Democratic law-makers extolled banks into giving out dumb loans to poor people who couldn't pay them, or those banks would then be disallowed from merging, increasing their number of branches, and a whole host of other things that would have basically led to their collapse.

The banks balked at the new rules, telling the gov't "hey, these fukkers aren't going to be able to pay these loans, and we are going to go under." To which the gov't replied, "Don't worry about it, if they can't pay these loans, the gov't will bail you out." And that's exactly what they did.

So yes, in a sense, these loans were "risk-free" for the banks, but only because the gov't knew these were crazy dumb fukking loans, and had to do something to get the banks to go along with it. But because the gov't doesn't know shit about how the mortgage capital industry works, they didn't realize that when the banks sold the normal bundling of mortgages to the secondary mortgage market (as has been going on for decades perfectly fine with the desired result) the system would collapse and fail. The banks tried to warn them, the gov't didn't listen, so the banks said, "Fine. Won't be any skin off our back."

Except the banks didn't even know how fukked up everything was going to get because most banks operate on a regional basis and had no understanding of how this was going to implode the real estate market all over the country.

Long story short, if the gov't doesn't step in to force the banks to give out stupid loans, none of this shit ever happens. But then guys like Barnie Frank and other liberals can't be seen as the saviors of black people.

So go fukk yourself. I used to work in real-estate law and dealt with this shit every goddam day and don't need a fukking "source," to tell me what happened when I lived it just like you don't need to go read a goddam book to tell you the sun rose this morning.

[The Madcap]

So the banks were coerced, but they couldn't be coerced to lend out the TARP money to thaw the credit market (like they originally promised)?

The banks made no money or had any part when they bundled them, got them stamped by ratings agencies and sold this shit?

You have a little anger you need to get off your chest?

Read above.

And yes, I am a little angry.

Dumbshit fukking liberals who go running their mouths about shit they pretend to understand annoy the piss out of me.

[Tsonga]

Madcap keeps getting madder all the time.

If we follow his standards for a well developed response all we need to do is say we worked in the industry and then let the anectotal "evidence" fly!

And remember, the smart ones don't source anything. They are just too smart to stoop to that level.

[The Madcap]

Madcap keeps getting madder all the time.

If we follow his standards for a well developed response all we need to do is say we worked in the industry and then let the anectotal "evidence" fly!

And remember, the smart ones don't source anything. They are just too smart to stoop to that level.

History is always "anecdotal" dumbshit.

It's not like you pansy liberals ever willingly accept a source that disagrees with your opinions anyway.

[benjy]

Beside the "Sources, I don't need no stinking sources!" hilarity is the fact that Madcap comes into a thread addressed to Canadians and is amazed that it's populated by "liberals".

If Obama were to run for Parliament in Canada he'd be deemed a Conservative*. Goodness forbid Madcap ever came in contact with a representative cross-section of Canadian society: there would be our super-liberal-Liberals, and OMG, can you imagine him meeting a card carrying member of our official opposition, the NDP**?

Why the heck are you here Madcap other than to pick fights?

*Based on his actions not his speeches.
**Socialists, in all but their name.

[benjy]

Banks don't make "risk" free money unless the gov't backs it. Which they did when they told the banks to give out those idiotic loans.

False. Anyone can buy their loans. Not just the government. Once it's sold they're off the hook, hence risk-free.

This is how it all broke down.....

A study comes out during the Clinton Administration showing that blacks are denied loans at a significantly higher rate than whites. It did not matter that whites were denied loans at a significantly higher rate than Asian-Americans, or that the denials of these loans were based on one's credit ratings and pay stubs. No, all that mattered was that liberal academics felt like black people were being unfairly punished for being black, and therefore, their actual ability to pay a loan be damned, they should get one, so they can buy a house and more democrats can get elected to congress.

And so Democratic law-makers extolled banks into giving out dumb loans to poor people who couldn't pay them, or those banks would then be disallowed from merging, increasing their number of branches, and a whole host of other things that would have basically led to their collapse.

The banks balked at the new rules, telling the gov't "hey, these fukkers aren't going to be able to pay these loans, and we are going to go under." To which the gov't replied, "Don't worry about it, if they can't pay these loans, the gov't will bail you out." And that's exactly what they did.

Source this pressure stuff. Please.

Source the government backing too. Please.

My readings on the topic are after the MBS market was developed and sub-prime mortgages were snapped up by buyers just as soon as the ink was dry. The racket being established lenders on the street dished 'em out as fast as they could because buyers were there to take the mortgages, and their risk of default, off their hands (hence, "risk-free" for the lenders).

Then the buyers of the mortgages, the investment banks, would package 'em up and sell 'em to ignorant fools around the world. Once sold the investment banks were then off the hook hence more "risk-free" profit.

Certain idiot banks held onto these pieces of crap. Some were the uber-idiots and held onto the tranches of high-risk mortgage bundles and got uber-screwed for their greed. And some were just plain ignorant, the Macs, and got hosed for their stupidity.

So yes, in a sense, these loans were "risk-free" for the banks, but only because the gov't knew these were crazy dumb fukking loans, and had to do something to get the banks to go along with it. But because the gov't doesn't know shit about how the mortgage capital industry works, they didn't realize that when the banks sold the normal bundling of mortgages to the secondary mortgage market (as has been going on for decades perfectly fine with the desired result) the system would collapse and fail. The banks tried to warn them, the gov't didn't listen, so the banks said, "Fine. Won't be any skin off our back."

So the gov't knew they were dumb but they didn't know how the market works? Which makes no sense. Or are you implying that backing some loans caused the secondary market to collapse? Which makes no sense either.

Your statement regarding the MBS market is somewhat misleading. The market was only established in the 70's, if memory serves, and didn't reach any kind of maturity for more than a decade. While your statement is factually true, the implication that it's some stable, long-established mechanism is not.

Except the banks didn't even know how fukked up everything was going to get because most banks operate on a regional basis and had no understanding of how this was going to implode the real estate market all over the country.

I'm not sure whether you are arguing for more government (regional banks don't understand the broader market) oversight or less (government bad, BAD!).

Long story short, if the gov't doesn't step in to force the banks to give out stupid loans, none of this shit ever happens. But then guys like Barnie Frank and other liberals can't be seen as the saviors of black people.

So go fukk yourself. I used to work in real-estate law and dealt with this shit every goddam day and don't need a fukking "source," to tell me what happened when I lived it just like you don't need to go read a goddam book to tell you the sun rose this morning.

More unpleasantness. Aren't you special? So special that your viewpoint and stories should be sufficient to appease us all apparently.

[wtt0315]

they think hes black.
thats probably about it

[sickler]

This is a good discussion you guys have going. My apologies for interrupting it with Canadian stuff

[andywend]

Canadian here,
The pipeline was shut down because Obama did not want to upset the environmentalists, who make up a part of his base, before the election. After the election, regardless of who wins, the pipeline will go through.

Jerry is 100% accurate in his assessment of why the Keystone Pipeline was blocked by President Obama.

And that pipeline is garbage.. Don't believe the hype..

When you have your head firmly planted up Obama's rear end as Mayan does, this is what comes out.

How about a straight trade, Jerry for King Mayan? Rinse and repeat about 10 million times and the U.S. would have a fighting chance to recover.

[The Madcap]

Beside the "Sources, I don't need no stinking sources!" hilarity is the fact that Madcap comes into a thread addressed to Canadians and is amazed that it's populated by "liberals".

If Obama were to run for Parliament in Canada he'd be deemed a Conservative*. Goodness forbid Madcap ever came in contact with a representative cross-section of Canadian society: there would be our super-liberal-Liberals, and OMG, can you imagine him meeting a card carrying member of our official opposition, the NDP**?

Why the heck are you here Madcap other than to pick fights?

*Based on his actions not his speeches.
**Socialists, in all but their name.

I'm not surprised there are liberals here at all. I am however, continually surprised at their bullshit. I guess I keep telling myself that one day you'll figure it out.

Obama would only be deemed a conservative in Canada by you urban-centric easterners who have been shitting on western Canada for decades.

I don't pick fights, but I'm not going to stand around and get insulted without dishing a little back either.

Just another reason why I generally despise you liberals, you'll run around all day long mocking and ridiculing anyone who disagrees with your view of the world, but the moment somebody else tosses a little back at you, well then, we better all call a time out and calm down and hold hands and be more sensitive to one another.

Suck it.

[The Madcap]

False. Anyone can buy their loans. Not just the government. Once it's sold they're off the hook, hence risk-free.



Source this pressure stuff. Please.

Source the government backing too. Please.

My readings on the topic are after the MBS market was developed and sub-prime mortgages were snapped up by buyers just as soon as the ink was dry. The racket being established lenders on the street dished 'em out as fast as they could because buyers were there to take the mortgages, and their risk of default, off their hands (hence, "risk-free" for the lenders).

Then the buyers of the mortgages, the investment banks, would package 'em up and sell 'em to ignorant fools around the world. Once sold the investment banks were then off the hook hence more "risk-free" profit.

Certain idiot banks held onto these pieces of crap. Some were the uber-idiots and held onto the tranches of high-risk mortgage bundles and got uber-screwed for their greed. And some were just plain ignorant, the Macs, and got hosed for their stupidity.



So the gov't knew they were dumb but they didn't know how the market works? Which makes no sense. Or are you implying that backing some loans caused the secondary market to collapse? Which makes no sense either.

Your statement regarding the MBS market is somewhat misleading. The market was only established in the 70's, if memory serves, and didn't reach any kind of maturity for more than a decade. While your statement is factually true, the implication that it's some stable, long-established mechanism is not.



I'm not sure whether you are arguing for more government (regional banks don't understand the broader market) oversight or less (government bad, BAD!).



More unpleasantness. Aren't you special? So special that your viewpoint and stories should be sufficient to appease us all apparently.

I'm aware anyone can buy the loans, that's not what I mean by backing. I meant that the gov't would ensure the loans and bail out the banks if there was a problem.

SOURCES: I'd say go ask any bank manager in America. But you're Canadian. So I'd say fukking google it. But you'll probably just find the same bullshit you've been reading, so here....

http://reason.com/archives/2009/05/2...-boom-and-bust

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl.../thomas-sowell

Here part of an interview with Sowell (Phd professor of economics at Stanford)

"The banks had no choice but to go along because the regulators controlled their fate. So the banks would simply sign up people, sell the mortgages to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. It now became Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's problem. And that meant it became the taxpayers' problem."

""There's no such thing as regulation in the abstract. There are certain kinds of regulation that can have beneficial effects. Canada does not have the same problem that we have even though they have regulations. But their regulators are trying to make sure that the banks and other lending institutions are obeying clear-cut rules. Ours were trying to produce higher statistics on home ownership in general, and in particular trying to reduce the gap between low-income people and high-income people, blacks and whites, et cetera."


Only established in the 70's: That was still 40 fukking years ago. Seriously. We've gone from 8-tracks to cassette tapes to CD's to I-pods in that time man! Sweet Jesus.

It's not about more or less government, it's about SMART government. It's about government not sticking their nose into shit simply because it "feels" like the right thing to do. Results are what matters, not day-dreaming idealism.

Just because blacks don't get approved for loans as often as whites does not mean it's because of something racist. At least, not racist today. If you want to make that "sins of the past" argument has led to blacks having poor credit, fine, that's reasonable. But don't implicate the banks as being racist, and don't fukk them over because of it.

[Tsonga]

History is always "anecdotal" dumbshit.

It's not like you pansy liberals ever willingly accept a source that disagrees with your opinions anyway.

Your version of history is obviously anecdotal. Most history is evidence based though. I'm not going to call you a dumsh&$, or a numb!~s now. That would be just like you.

[rkelly110]

Sorry for interjecting about the housing market that seems to affect the whole world.

We wouldn't be in the housing mess if people weren't so stupid about their finances.
Lending institutions don't give two shits about how many cars you're paying on,
how much you would have to pay for food, taxes and insurance. All they care about
is your gross take home to afford the house payment.

Back in the day a 3,000 sf house meant you were doing really well. Today a 5,000 sf
house is the norm which takes up to and over 1/2 of your monthly income for 30 yrs.

The financial stupidity of the buyer comes from, NOT doing their homework before
buying a house. Adding up all their bills, food, car payments, CC payments and the like,
to see what they can afford for a house payment. If you can't afford it, find something
else.

Buying at the height of the market is another idiotic move. Companies buying up packaged
mortgages, is the ultimate stupidity. They should know better.

The govt backing up this shit is a classic example of, it's not my money, attitude.
If the govt would act like it IS their money, I think govt's would have a better grasp.

[The Madcap]

Your version of history is obviously anecdotal. Most history is evidence based though. I'm not going to call you a dumsh&$, or a numb!~s now. That would be just like you.

For fukk's sake Tsonga,

what do you think the base of that "evidence" is?

It comes from letters and diaries and journals of respective time periods. Oral histories that were passed on for generations. Periodicals from rudimentary journalists. These are all anecdotal reflections, and is the most common way in which historians contextualize more empirical data. (Like log books, supply sheets, tax records, birth certificates, etc. )

And you're right, it would be like me to call you a dumbshit, because you're fukking acting like one, and I call it as I see it.

[andywend]

MadCap, there is a reason why liberal idiots like Tsonga support a nanny state and want to see the wealth of the rich be transferred to the poor and thats because they are lazy, dumb idiots.

They will always UNDERPERFORM their conservative competition and wind up in an abyss of FAILURE and then whine and screech about how unfair the world is.

Madcap, you explained in great detail about what really caused the housing crisis and just look at the quality responses you got back in return from liberals like Tsonga (just a small dash of sarcasm thrown in).

The worst thing you could do is take up so much of your time trying to reason with socialists as you're trying to have a rational conversation with irrational people. There's a reason why they WREAK OF FAILURE.

Just so you know you didn't completely waste your time, I really enjoy reading your posts. Have a great weekend.

[CanuckG]

Trudeau with his buddy Fidel Castro.

related to Trudeau. True story.

[Balco10]

Canadian's should be worried about American's running thorough their borders.

[Balco10]

Light bulb....might be a great time to slip into Canada...

[sickler]

related to Trudeau. True story.

Related? I never heard that, I know they were good friends. The saying was Trudeau never met a commie he didn't like

[sickler]

related to Trudeau. True story.

Canuck, do you have anything to back that up with? Quick Google search turned up nothing.

Trudeau's and Castro's family trees will do

Or are you saying you're related to Trudeau?

[Marigold HD]

Great descussions

[sickler]

Canucker, you are full of it.

[High3rEl3m3nt]

I think it's great that we are hearing first hand from Canadians on a variety of issues. Us, Americans really should know more about our Northern friends.

[Tsonga]

For fukk's sake Tsonga,

what do you think the base of that "evidence" is?

It comes from letters and diaries and journals of respective time periods. Oral histories that were passed on for generations. Periodicals from rudimentary journalists. These are all anecdotal reflections, and is the most common way in which historians contextualize more empirical data. (Like log books, supply sheets, tax records, birth certificates, etc. )

And you're right, it would be like me to call you a dumbshit, because you're fukking acting like one, and I call it as I see it.

You are such an arrogant kid. You obviously walk around with a permanent chip on your shoulder but I will try to enlighten you as to how this disagreement got started.



You went off on your analysis of the economy in the United States on a pure anecdotal rant. My issue was that you didn't use a single piece of evidence to back up what you said. Anecdotal is ok when you don't have direct evidence to refer to. You do have this (solid/direct evidence) available and you chose just to talk out of your piehole without ever trying to convince someone that you were more than just a blowhard. How do you ever expect to convince someone of anything if all you do is insult and act like the only one's who get things are people like you.

Shrute, Andywend and bigdaddy as your personal cheerleaders does not mean you are making any progress in being cogent.

Back to the title of the thread. I realize I haven't given my two cents.

Consensus on Obama in the north depends on who you talk to and how educated they are. My friends who are in the academic world have a far more enlightened view than my friends who just read the news. We have a classic newspaper for neanderthals in the Toronto Sun. Ask those Canadians how Obama is doing and they would give the same opinion as those Americans who consume a healthy diet of Fox News.

In general, the view of Obama is positive in Canada.

[sickler]

I repeat CanuckG, you are full of it!

Don't pull out the godfather card, it doesn't mean they're related. Fidel Castro godfather to one of Trudeau's children. If true (I didn't verify it) it came about out of their friendship.