[MobFade]

As far as the Jags go, I'll repost what I wrote a few weeks back as I think it still applies:

I really liked JAX coming into the off-season. I really thought Gus Bradley would go down and ra-ra them up to play inspired, physical defense and change the culture of that franchise. I thought he would take what he saw happen in Seattle in the course of 3 years and apply a lot of that. Burn down the roster, start from scratch, bring in guys that fit your system, etc. I thought a new GM might draft smartly, and you might see Seahawks - East down there in 3 years. So first thing they do is nothing. I mean like zero moves in FA, and you let a bunch of your vets walk. Okay, new regime, they want guys that fit their scheme, trim the fat, I get it. Then you take a RT 2 overall. Okay, you're really pushing it, but they got some numbers they think back this up and it could change the way we value RT's ... okay. I love econometrics or sabremetrics or whatever (I really do, after like Week 5 of the regular season) but then what do you do? You take a small school safety with some good safeties still on the board, not to mention all the talent at holes you still have. Raw in coverage and with shit measurables/40 time, so an overall questionable play on a roster too devoid of talent to be taking these long-term gambles 33rd overall. Next up, we have the second best CB at UConn, when the best one is still on the board. And then this ... Then you take penetrating Shoelace and Ace Sanders. What is your penetrating angle here? What is your team's identity? You draft a RT so Gabbert has more time in the pocket and then you turn around and draft Shoelace to be a what? An Offensive Weapon? To run the wildcat? To catch passes out of the slot? Tony Sparano, is that you? Why draft Ace Sanders then? You already have Cecil Shorts in the slot. HOW ABOUT YOU ADDRESS YOUR FRONT 7 GUS BRADLEY. WHY DID YOU NOT TAKE STAR LOTULELEI. This draft was so deep you could have shored up that part of your roster, because outside of some projects at LEO and hoping Alualu can get back to Cal form moving him back to what is essentially 3-4 DE in that D, you have nothing. Anyway, Jacksonville has zero talent on their roster, so what do they do? That's right, absolutely nothing in FA still. Maybe they really are tanking the season. NYJ and OAK are turning their franchises around (still not sure about that Hayden pick though), and JAX is headed the other way ... back to being the sideshow they've been for the last 5 years. Except I do like the CB's they took in the 6th. /rant

[Speedy88]

i generally dont look at season win totals as i cant stomach tying up money on plays that dont have big odds...i played 1 future in july i saw value in . cincy to win sb i thought had really good value and would set up nicely to hedge out if they can get over the hump and win a playoff gm. i think browns will be improved.. zona will prob win 7-8 gms.

gabbert is total trash and im hoping he cant go cause then i will be on jags w henne no doubt. i disagree jags are not improving, mjd back and healthy and not sure what makes you think he will be any less ready than charles? they upgraded their oline and brought in a new coach who i think will have this team playing hard.. dont get me wrong i think kc competes for a playoff spot but they have done nothing to warrant being 4 point road favs this early imo.. not completely sure i play it but it jags or nothing and i really hope kc loses as that will set up a huge bet on them in week 2...

i think hou will struggle to score points but their d will more than likely lay a beat down on sd which is why i lean under..far as atl yea they a good team and have a offense with more weapons than just about anyone. still not sold on their defense and im not playing against the saints at home only getting 3 points..peyton returning will have a impact as despite all the talk of saints passing gm when he calling plays he will use the run gm to keep his defense off the field and basically think saints will get whatever they want off falcons defense.. have in my mind there a strong possibility that i bet the 1st half under then if things go as planned come back and hit the over in the 2nd half at hopefully a better number than where it sits now...

ill have plenty more time to discuss and finish my card later on bout to go bowling with the wifey and some friends, pretty excited as i havnt really bowled since before i went to prison so we talking like 8 years ago, used to be a pretty damn good bowler curious if i can go out and roll a 600 series after all these years! prob not but hopefully i can at least bust out with one gm in the mid 200s..

Agreed, if Henne plays I'll probably play the Jags. The Chiefs laying more than a FG on the road is ridiculous. Jags need to stop wasting time and just give up on their beloved first rounder Blane Gabbert.

What do you think of the Cleveland/Miami game? This game has me a little puzzled. I thought the line would have been closer to CLE -2 or 3. I know they are without Josh Gordon, but Cle as a PK seems almost too easy.

I haven't looked at the card too much because I purposely do not want to play a lot. But looking at the card, I like a lot of faves which is probably a bad thing. Likely going to play Chicago and Dallas. I actually think both Dal and Chi can win their divisions this year. Already snagged Indy at -9.5 yesterday (never love laying that many, but i'm just fading Pryor). If I lose on Indy, then hats off to Oakland and Pryor.

[killersweet]

Agreed, if Henne plays I'll probably play the Jags. The Chiefs laying more than a FG on the road is ridiculous. Jags need to stop wasting time and just give up on their beloved first rounder Blane Gabbert.

What do you think of the Cleveland/Miami game? This game has me a little puzzled. I thought the line would have been closer to CLE -2 or 3. I know they are without Josh Gordon, but Cle as a PK seems almost too easy.

I haven't looked at the card too much because I purposely do not want to play a lot. But looking at the card, I like a lot of faves which is probably a bad thing. Likely going to play Chicago and Dallas. I actually think both Dal and Chi can win their divisions this year. Already snagged Indy at -9.5 yesterday (never love laying that many, but i'm just fading Pryor). If I lose on Indy, then hats off to Oakland and Pryor.

Is Henne that much better than Gabbert? Both suck big time.

[BigBoi]

Thoughts on sf and gb? Think a lot of points

[Capybara]

As far as the Jags go, I'll repost what I wrote a few weeks back as I think it still applies:

I really liked JAX coming into the off-season. I really thought Gus Bradley would go down and ra-ra them up to play inspired, physical defense and change the culture of that franchise. I thought he would take what he saw happen in Seattle in the course of 3 years and apply a lot of that. Burn down the roster, start from scratch, bring in guys that fit your system, etc. I thought a new GM might draft smartly, and you might see Seahawks - East down there in 3 years. So first thing they do is nothing. I mean like zero moves in FA, and you let a bunch of your vets walk. Okay, new regime, they want guys that fit their scheme, trim the fat, I get it. Then you take a RT 2 overall. Okay, you're really pushing it, but they got some numbers they think back this up and it could change the way we value RT's ... okay. I love econometrics or sabremetrics or whatever (I really do, after like Week 5 of the regular season) but then what do you do? You take a small school safety with some good safeties still on the board, not to mention all the talent at holes you still have. Raw in coverage and with shit measurables/40 time, so an overall questionable play on a roster too devoid of talent to be taking these long-term gambles 33rd overall. Next up, we have the second best CB at UConn, when the best one is still on the board. And then this ... Then you take penetrating Shoelace and Ace Sanders. What is your penetrating angle here? What is your team's identity? You draft a RT so Gabbert has more time in the pocket and then you turn around and draft Shoelace to be a what? An Offensive Weapon? To run the wildcat? To catch passes out of the slot? Tony Sparano, is that you? Why draft Ace Sanders then? You already have Cecil Shorts in the slot. HOW ABOUT YOU ADDRESS YOUR FRONT 7 GUS BRADLEY. WHY DID YOU NOT TAKE STAR LOTULELEI. This draft was so deep you could have shored up that part of your roster, because outside of some projects at LEO and hoping Alualu can get back to Cal form moving him back to what is essentially 3-4 DE in that D, you have nothing. Anyway, Jacksonville has zero talent on their roster, so what do they do? That's right, absolutely nothing in FA still. Maybe they really are tanking the season. NYJ and OAK are turning their franchises around (still not sure about that Hayden pick though), and JAX is headed the other way ... back to being the sideshow they've been for the last 5 years. Except I do like the CB's they took in the 6th. /rant

I love this rant. Seriously, love the attention to detail and passion for the game. Good shit, MF.

[2daBank]

Is Henne that much better than Gabbert? Both suck big time.

certainly not here to tell yo henne is anything special but yes far as compared to Gabbert dude a all pro as while he not the most accurate guy and will throw pick he is at least willing to push the ball down the field..being a mizzou fan i watched gabberts whole college career and i was astounded that he was drafted at all let alone in the top 10, in college the dude was the checkdown king and while mizzou does run a lot of those little hitches and screens he simply never took shots and it has continued into his pro career, no matter the route combo his 1st and only read is always the underneath stuff, either kid has no downfield vision or simply lacks the guts to push the ball down field. so yes i think henne for all his faults gives the jags a much better chance to win. just look at how shorts and blackmon emerged on the seen last yr when gabbert went out and henne came in.. obviously the new coaching staff saw something in him to give it another whirl but honestly i believe they just stuck with him this yr cause there simply wasnt a qb worth taking with the 2nd pick so they went tackle knowing the crop of qbs next yr is much stronger, whether it be bridgewater, boyd, murry, or 10 other guys that all have a much better chance of seceding in the nfl than this bum ever had..

[No coincidences]

I'm warming to Jacksonville. Did you actually play them, or are you waiting for a better #?

[2daBank]

As far as the Jags go, I'll repost what I wrote a few weeks back as I think it still applies:

I really liked JAX coming into the off-season. I really thought Gus Bradley would go down and ra-ra them up to play inspired, physical defense and change the culture of that franchise. I thought he would take what he saw happen in Seattle in the course of 3 years and apply a lot of that. Burn down the roster, start from scratch, bring in guys that fit your system, etc. I thought a new GM might draft smartly, and you might see Seahawks - East down there in 3 years. So first thing they do is nothing. I mean like zero moves in FA, and you let a bunch of your vets walk. Okay, new regime, they want guys that fit their scheme, trim the fat, I get it. Then you take a RT 2 overall. Okay, you're really pushing it, but they got some numbers they think back this up and it could change the way we value RT's ... okay. I love econometrics or sabremetrics or whatever (I really do, after like Week 5 of the regular season) but then what do you do? You take a small school safety with some good safeties still on the board, not to mention all the talent at holes you still have. Raw in coverage and with shit measurables/40 time, so an overall questionable play on a roster too devoid of talent to be taking these long-term gambles 33rd overall. Next up, we have the second best CB at UConn, when the best one is still on the board. And then this ... Then you take penetrating Shoelace and Ace Sanders. What is your penetrating angle here? What is your team's identity? You draft a RT so Gabbert has more time in the pocket and then you turn around and draft Shoelace to be a what? An Offensive Weapon? To run the wildcat? To catch passes out of the slot? Tony Sparano, is that you? Why draft Ace Sanders then? You already have Cecil Shorts in the slot. HOW ABOUT YOU ADDRESS YOUR FRONT 7 GUS BRADLEY. WHY DID YOU NOT TAKE STAR LOTULELEI. This draft was so deep you could have shored up that part of your roster, because outside of some projects at LEO and hoping Alualu can get back to Cal form moving him back to what is essentially 3-4 DE in that D, you have nothing. Anyway, Jacksonville has zero talent on their roster, so what do they do? That's right, absolutely nothing in FA still. Maybe they really are tanking the season. NYJ and OAK are turning their franchises around (still not sure about that Hayden pick though), and JAX is headed the other way ... back to being the sideshow they've been for the last 5 years. Except I do like the CB's they took in the 6th. /rant

if you want my honest opinion on this i think they saw a chance to get a bookend tackle and let this season play out when they will have a opportunity to draft one of the qbs coming out next yr that actually have talent...they are set at wr with blackmon and shorts, not sure what will happen with mjd. he will find some guys on defense that he likes i believe after having them a yr and can go into next off season knowing who they feel can play for them and start targeting the help they need. in a way yea they kinda tanking cause they know they have no franchise qb and there wasnt one in the last draft (although i think manuel may turn into a solid nfl qb at least) but there some potential stars coming up in this off season. in the meantime i think he will get the most out of what he has on d and find some guys that develop under his tutelage and in the off season weed out the guys that dont fit in with the team. i wouldnt be so harsh on this front office over this off season as it tough when the most important thing is finding a franchise qb and there simply wasnt one to be had..

[2daBank]

I'm warming to Jacksonville. Did you actually play them, or are you waiting for a better #?

last i heard didnt know the status of gabbert..not sure if he starts i can play them and yea id like 4.5 as well...

[No coincidences]

last i heard didnt know the status of gabbert..not sure if he starts i can play them and yea id like 4.5 as well...

I won't play them if it's Gabbert. I know that much.

[2daBank]

ok that enough time dedicated to the plight of the jags ..if i do bet them it has far more to do with the fact kc hasnt earned the right to be road favs of more than 3 to anyone imo, that and im really in love with the idea of kc losing this week witch would turn the somewhat high perception of them to shit instantly and hoping dal shines on primetime setting up a fantastic opportunity to play kc hosting dal next week (sure maybe not a likely scenario, but how sweet it would be!)

[2daBank]

I won't play them if it's Gabbert. I know that much.

my thoughts exactly. if it gabbert ill prob be on the under and just hope jags somehow win..

[JayLA]

I love this rant. Seriously, love the attention to detail and passion for the game. Good shit, MF.

that's why I enjoy 2daBank's NFL threads. No bullshit, no trolls...just passion for football.

Arizona +4.5, Bank, let's gett itt!

[Slimpickens]

Nice thread you got going here Bank. Lots of good info.

[2daBank]

Agreed, if Henne plays I'll probably play the Jags. The Chiefs laying more than a FG on the road is ridiculous. Jags need to stop wasting time and just give up on their beloved first rounder Blane Gabbert.

What do you think of the Cleveland/Miami game? This game has me a little puzzled. I thought the line would have been closer to CLE -2 or 3. I know they are without Josh Gordon, but Cle as a PK seems almost too easy.

I haven't looked at the card too much because I purposely do not want to play a lot. But looking at the card, I like a lot of faves which is probably a bad thing. Likely going to play Chicago and Dallas. I actually think both Dal and Chi can win their divisions this year. Already snagged Indy at -9.5 yesterday (never love laying that many, but i'm just fading Pryor). If I lose on Indy, then hats off to Oakland and Pryor.

no interest in a side in cle, mia typically plays tough on road and i like their defense.. under 20.5 1st half is where im leaning here. hayden will take wallace out of the gm, with gordon out cle offense not that hard to defend with no one to blow the top off the d and i like the phins defense. think both teams will have some success running the ball, but w/o the big play it gonna take long clock eating drives to score and good chance of the 4 drives or so that result in points 2 maybe 3 will more than likely end in fgs..

i didnt plan on playing a lot but i see several totals i think are worth small plays at least, think when all said and done ill prob be on 2 or 3 sides and 5 or so totals...

as i mentioned on the other page cincy/chi is almost certainly a pass for me, i like both teams, think there are less question marks on cincy but i do tend to think bears have a solid yr and contend for a playoff spot..with these defenses seems like a gm that i think ends up being decided by a fg so id say the line right where it should be..

i do like dal but hate laying points in this dal/nyg matchup, and eli has owned jerry world over the years...if i play it would be on cowgirls but prob depends what kind of mood im in after the day gms, if i had a solid day im sure i throw something on them just for the action, if my day doesnt turn out so hot prob just sit back and watch as i have like 4 fantasy starters in this gm anyway, lol..

[2daBank]

Thoughts on sf and gb? Think a lot of points

i think it will be a fun gm to watch and that about it..to many questions for me, has gb figured out some things to stop keap from running wild on them? will the pistol be easier to defend with the loss of crabtree who was the only guy on that team with the ability to blow the top off defenses? can pack oline give rodgers time, if yes i think pack wrs can get some things done but rookie tackle against this pass rush makes ya wonder. ..really this 1st time im even looking at this gm as i had it as a straight pass from the beginning, that said think i may be able to make a case for the under but even so not sure it a case i want to make as def potential for that to turn out bad, gotta think bout that a little more but yea id say pass most likely on this one..

[BigBoi]

What bout aints and falcons?

[5mike5]

Nice thread you got going here Bank. Lots of good info.

i agree...nice to see a poster with actual good info and does it to help others...very rare at this place thats 4 sure

keep up the great work Bank, its appreciated

[2daBank]

What bout aints and falcons?

i lean aints but another gm wouldnt break my heart to pass on...the thought has crossed my mind to play the 1st half under (crazy i know) as i think a overlooked aspect of peytons return to playcalling is that last year saints rush attempts were near the bottom of the league and they avg a pathetic 98 ypg on the ground, while most ppl probably think him coming back and the saints are gonna be high flying not realizing that he has always had them at least in the middle of the pack with their run gm and i think he will get back to and even lean on the run even more so to help keep his defense from being exposed..

atl gave up a horrid 4.8 ypc last season and not sure what they have done that will fix that especially against a saints team they certainly cant load up to stop the run, i think saints come out and establish the run early and often having brees pass just to extend drives on 3rd down limiting the falcons possessions (year before the suspension saints were one of the top teams in the league in top, near the bottom last season). think they shorten this gm in the 1st half anyway and we see roughly 4 scoring drives maybe 5 with at least 2 of them ending in fg attempts which would land us under the 27.5 (close as it may be).

then come back in the second half with the over as it inevitable at some point this gm will open up, if things go according to plan in the 1st then we get a better number than ppl betting the gm over. even if the 1st half goes over and playing over 2nd half results in needing more points than if you simply played gm over it wont matter cause if they already engaged in a shootout before half it will continue in the 2nd..

hope that all made sense. just a though but one i think that could very well turn out well..

[MobFade]

While the ATL D-line may be lacking, this is a Saints O-line that is missing Bushrod, Goodwin, and Nicks from 2 years ago. Outside of Sproles doing what he does, I don't know that NO is running inside at 4.8 a clip.

[2daBank]

While the ATL D-line may be lacking, this is a Saints O-line that is missing Bushrod, Goodwin, and Nicks from 2 years ago. Outside of Sproles doing what he does, I don't know that NO is running inside at 4.8 a clip.

i think the threat of brees makes for soft fronts to be running against, i could be wrong on this but i think ingram has looked as good as ive ever seen him since college and i expect him to become a bit of a workhorse and ive always been one to believe good organizations can coach up lineman especially when it comes to run blocking (little different when you talking a left tackle in pass pro).. actually think sproles role is gonna be less than in recent years. again certainly wouldnt be the 1st time i was wrong but it now or never for a guy sainst used a 1st round pick on and i think he is gonna be up to the task... obviously this is why i dont bet much more than half unit a gm in week 1 (possibly a 1u play or 2 but that it) cause really just speculation...week 2 is however typically one of my fav weeks of the season as everyone overreacts to what they percive to be bad losses good wins..

[2daBank]

i agree...nice to see a poster with actual good info and does it to help others...very rare at this place thats 4 sure

keep up the great work Bank, its appreciated

thanx mike..ive never understood the whole just post plays and not discussing them as really what does anyone gain from that? ive always encouraged ppl not to just blindly tail me or anyone cause after all it your money, i just enjoy talking this stuff and if it actually helps anyone even better.. honestly it just as beneficial for myself as i find it helps my capping and i have been lucky enough over the years here to get a group of guys i respect that come to my threads and add to the discussion as it those guys that make my threads what they are, lots of times my a.d.d ass will aimlessly be staring at the card trying to go thru the gms just stuck but when someone post something or a question about a gm the wheels start turning and i can start churning out thoughts. nice to have a place where you can actually respectfully disagree and/or discuss instead of getting into a dick measuring contest. far to many threads filled with nothing but worthless shit being spewed by guys that have some deep desire to "be the best" or prove their "greatness" to a bunch of strangers.

seems every year despite this place getting worse i manage to get a few new additions that are here for the same thing we are and keep coming back lending their points of views that make this thread worth doing as far as im concerned the more intelligent cats that chime in the better this thread becomes. im just the initiator i think the thread is great cause of everyone else that adds well thought out ideals/numbers/whatever...

[2daBank]

just recapping the plays made so far. if you look thru the pages you can find my reasoning for the plays so not gonna rewrite here..

sea/car un 45
car +3.5
car ml +155

pats/bills ov 51

mia/cle un 20.5 1st half

zona+4.5

[EzekielMowatt]

Good luck Bank, i like that Carolina front seven vs Seattle today.

[MobFade]

i think the threat of brees makes for soft fronts to be running against, i could be wrong on this but i think ingram has looked as good as ive ever seen him since college and i expect him to become a bit of a workhorse and ive always been one to believe good organizations can coach up lineman especially when it comes to run blocking (little different when you talking a left tackle in pass pro).. actually think sproles role is gonna be less than in recent years. again certainly wouldnt be the 1st time i was wrong but it now or never for a guy sainst used a 1st round pick on and i think he is gonna be up to the task... obviously this is why i dont bet much more than half unit a gm in week 1 (possibly a 1u play or 2 but that it) cause really just speculation...week 2 is however typically one of my fav weeks of the season as everyone overreacts to what they percive to be bad losses good wins..

This is true, but Brees was there the last 2 years when Ingram couldn't get anything going, and those 3 guys he lost were all pro-bowlers while at NO. I agree it can be coached up, but I think if Ingram hasn't been effective to this point, I can't see why this year would be any different.

[2daBank]

This is true, but Brees was there the last 2 years when Ingram couldn't get anything going, and those 3 guys he lost were all pro-bowlers while at NO. I agree it can be coached up, but I think if Ingram hasn't been effective to this point, I can't see why this year would be any different.

true that, ingram wasnt effective 2 years ago but the saints were in fact in the top 12 in the league in rushing i believe the yr before peyton was suspended..i chalk up last yr to brees pretty much running the offense and feeling he had to score every play to mask the incompetence of spagnola...far as what i find different in ingram is he seems in better shape and looked quicker to the hole during camp and ran more decisively, hell it could very well be back to the rbbc approach but i have no doubt that saints will come no where close to the horrid rushing numbers they put up last yr regardless of who is getting it done, believe they were bottom 3 in attempts which i cant recall ever happening with peyton calling the plays..sadly ive been wrong before and most certainly will be wrong many more times in my life but im telling ya ingram will have 1000 yrds and 8-10 tds this season...

[2daBank]

Good luck Bank, i like that Carolina front seven vs Seattle today.

panthers front 7 is scary good, not sure if ppl dont realize this or they all just hung up on sea? dont get me wrong im not bashing the seachickens as i really like that team but last yr in Carolina was by far wilsons worst gm and it took a couple really bad cam mistakes for sea to escape with a W. not so sure they will be as fortunate this time and the fact browner at best will be less than 100% (if he plays) is a big blow to go along with the injuries/suspensions they have up front...another thing while im not sure this applies in week 1 but sea does have a meeting with sf on deck as well..

[BiffTFinancial]

Leaning Browns side, but Dolphins/Clowns 1H under is a strong angle. This has all of the earmarks of a vintage Browns home shitfest.

[2daBank]

Leaning Browns side, but Dolphins/Clowns 1H under is a strong angle. This has all of the earmarks of a vintage Browns home shitfest.

i think brownies offense has potential this yr which is a big step up from recent times but not sure they gonna be able to realize it until gordon comes back, think that kid a star in the making but w/o him there no1 to blow the top off a defense, if i was mia my safties would line up bout same depth as the lbs turning it into a quasi 46 type look, lol..maybe bess will help them but it rough when your possession receiver has hands of stone (talking to you little!)..seriously there no reason that phins would have any player lined up further than 8 yards down the field in this one...then ya got that stud corner who will make it seem like phins didnt even spend a bunch of money on a wr as wallace will be shackled down. which leads to underneath stuff to hartline and i guess we will see if miller is a true 1 rb or thomas was just that bad..think it gonna take a bunch of plays to produce points in this one and by the time these teams execute enough to make it inot scoring range gotta think odds are good they make mistakes and settle for fgs more times than not..

[KANSAS24]

CAROLINA-INTERESTING
GL! BANK

[dilaudid8]

bank my man what's happening my brother. you have a great football year I love reading your thread . you have the best reading on sbr a lot of great info make your bookmaker pay gl

[Madison]

Good morning gentlemen. Good to see everyone back at it.

With 12 of the 15 games between 4.5 points the nfl has surely acheived its goal of parity. Quite frankly I'm a bit perplexed this week so will tread lightly.

For those of us who play totals my take from several articles and waytching the preseason is that more and more teams are going no huddle and trying to get more plays per game. Does this skew toward more scoring? We'll see.

Carrying on last years successful theme I'll offer up my usual array of 4 team 13pt teasers.

Here's where I'm at at this moment. (Lines from yesterday)

NE/Buf over 38
Atl/No over 41
TB/NYJ under 52
MIA/Clev under 54

Comments please

[2daBank]

i think there very little chance you lose that play madison

[Madison]

Somewhat obscure and not sure how meaningful but bettor beware.

NE let punter Mesko go. New guy rookie apparently will hold for FG's. I believe I read earlier in the week that he had never done so. Not totally sure if they meant pro's only but it sounded like NEVER.


Banker you probably already know the answer.

[2daBank]

Somewhat obscure and not sure how meaningful but bettor beware.

NE let punter Mesko go. New guy rookie apparently will hold for FG's. I believe I read earlier in the week that he had never done so. Not totally sure if they meant pro's only but it sounded like NEVER.


Banker you probably already know the answer.

doubt pats kick many fgs, lol..think they can stuff it down bills throats and punch in their scoring chances..