Mr Sagarin runs the Sweet 16 100 million times to give us this:

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  • Patrick McIrish
    SBR MVP
    • 09-15-05
    • 2864

    #1
    Mr Sagarin runs the Sweet 16 100 million times to give us this:
    SWEET 16 TOURNAMENT SIMULATION ODDS
    Tournament was simulated 100 million times.

    PREDICTOR WINS odds to 1
    1 Duke 95.25 26566266 2.76
    2 Syracuse 91.98 13713924 6.29
    3 Kentucky 91.50 12757381 6.84
    4 Kansas State 90.62 8819096 10.34
    5 Ohio State 89.79 8568966 10.67
    6 West Virginia 90.28 7822925 11.78
    7 Baylor 88.39 4341568 22.03
    8 Xavier-Ohio 87.55 2961759 32.76
    9 Michigan State 86.14 2743942 35.44
    10 Purdue 87.97 2735334 35.56
    11 Tennessee 86.34 2455179 39.73
    12 Washington 86.47 1908699 51.39
    13 Butler 86.09 1691979 58.10
    14 Northern Iowa 84.34 1290107 76.51
    15 Saint Mary's-Cal. 85.16 1168824 84.56
    16 Cornell 82.94 454051 219.24
    ======================================== ==========================




    I assume he thinks Duke has the best chance to win this tourney. For those not familiar all you do is take the assigned "predictor" (bolded the top of that column) for any particular team and compare it to their opponent. For example Kentucky has a predictor of 91.50, their opponent Cornell has an 82.94 score. So according to his data Kentucky should win by 8.56 points. Since the spread is 8 the line in his judgement is about where it should be. That is for neutral court games, when one team is home I think he assigns 4 more points to that team for betting purposes.


    Note - I do not endorse what he does, most certainly not as a final tool in finding games to play. However if you are relatively new and haven't got your own numbers/DB's and so on it can be used as a place to start. Before the lines even come out you can be given an idea where Sag thinks the line should be. If it's different I would advise go research the game yourself though before you make any plays. Look for injuries first then go from there but again I would strongly recommend that you do not use this exclusively as your base to bet games, just another tool for players to explore.
  • Patrick McIrish
    SBR MVP
    • 09-15-05
    • 2864

    #2
    BTW there are other (and better) rating systems for the public to use, I used this one just to show his Sweet 16 "data". And if anyone has been actively using this through the years or knows how he's been doing I'd be interested in that information. Thanks.
    Comment
    • Reload
      SBR Posting Legend
      • 03-23-08
      • 12250

      #3
      Good info, McIrish.

      I'll say that I find it hard to use Sagarin's numbers when it comes to any neutral site games. A lot of these teams got their powerful numbers due to blowout wins at home. So unless they play at home, the numbers that are come up with don't matter much.

      I have found that the numbers can be good after a season goes for a couple of months, and you want to identify some good home dogs or short home fav's to play. Sometimes there once you add home advantage to his number, you'll come up with an undervalued home team.
      Comment
      • Patrick McIrish
        SBR MVP
        • 09-15-05
        • 2864

        #4
        Thanks ReLoad, just the kind of feedback I was hoping to hear. Props.
        Comment
        • THE PROFIT
          SBR Posting Legend
          • 11-27-09
          • 17701

          #5
          I prefer Pomeroy for hoops, Sag for football
          Comment
          • Patrick McIrish
            SBR MVP
            • 09-15-05
            • 2864

            #6
            Originally posted by THE PROFIT
            I prefer Pomeroy for hoops...


            Agree, I think he's better in hoops as well.
            Comment
            • dtp
              SBR MVP
              • 09-17-09
              • 2106

              #7
              interesting stuff
              Comment
              • G's pks
                Restricted User
                • 01-01-09
                • 22251

                #8
                good stuff... lets see how this works out.
                Comment
                • Reload
                  SBR Posting Legend
                  • 03-23-08
                  • 12250

                  #9
                  Just to match it up, here's how his odds compare to TheGreek's

                  PREDICTOR WINS odds to 1
                  1 Duke 95.25 26566266 2.76 Greek: 4.65 (Overlay)
                  2 Syracuse 91.98 13713924 6.29 Greek: 5.25
                  3 Kentucky 91.50 12757381 6.84 Greek: 2.25
                  4 Kansas State 90.62 8819096 10.34 Greek: 9.25
                  5 Ohio State 89.79 8568966 10.67 Greek: 6.85
                  6 West Virginia 90.28 7822925 11.78 Greek 10.15
                  7 Baylor 88.39 4341568 22.03 Greek: 14.15
                  8 Xavier-Ohio 87.55 2961759 32.76 Greek: 40.50 (Overlay)
                  9 Michigan State 86.14 2743942 35.44 Greek: 32.50
                  10 Purdue 87.97 2735334 35.56 Greek: 45.50 (Overlay)
                  11 Tennessee 86.34 2455179 39.73 Greek: 25.50
                  12 Washington 86.47 1908699 51.39 Greek 45.50
                  13 Butler 86.09 1691979 58.10 Greek: 40.50
                  14 Northern Iowa 84.34 1290107 76.51 Greek: 30.50
                  15 Saint Mary's-Cal. 85.16 1168824 84.56 Greek: 52.50
                  16 Cornell 82.94 454051 219.24 Greek: 52.50
                  Comment
                  • slacker00
                    SBR Posting Legend
                    • 10-06-05
                    • 12262

                    #10
                    So Sagarin loves Duke. So does the NCAA, giving them the easiest path year after year.

                    Otherwise, I agree that Xavier seems to represent tremendous value.
                    Comment
                    • tonyhomo
                      SBR Wise Guy
                      • 01-10-10
                      • 749

                      #11
                      Interesting stuff
                      thx for sharing
                      Comment
                      • rm18
                        SBR Posting Legend
                        • 09-20-05
                        • 22291

                        #12
                        I don't think this factors in home court advantage for Cornell and Butler
                        Comment
                        • Yi
                          SBR Wise Guy
                          • 03-19-09
                          • 646

                          #13
                          Great Info
                          Comment
                          • Chi_archie
                            SBR Aristocracy
                            • 07-22-08
                            • 63172

                            #14
                            good info, and good news for me as I have duke beating cuse in the final
                            Comment
                            • Fishhead
                              SBR Aristocracy
                              • 08-11-05
                              • 40179

                              #15
                              McIrish.....you have to much time on your hands, which is a good thing.
                              Comment
                              • patswin
                                SBR MVP
                                • 09-05-06
                                • 1794

                                #16
                                Good stuff thanks for posting
                                Comment
                                • fsugolf
                                  SBR Hall of Famer
                                  • 07-17-09
                                  • 6194

                                  #17
                                  very nice!
                                  Comment
                                  • slacker00
                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                    • 10-06-05
                                    • 12262

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by rm18
                                    I don't think this factors in home court advantage for Cornell and Butler
                                    Good point, rm18. Sharp as always!
                                    Comment
                                    • Extra Innings
                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                      • 02-26-10
                                      • 15058

                                      #19
                                      Nice!
                                      Comment
                                      • Patrick McIrish
                                        SBR MVP
                                        • 09-15-05
                                        • 2864

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by rm18
                                        I don't think this factors in home court advantage for Cornell and Butler...


                                        You are correct, all of his ratings are given as though played on a neutral court. From there he will say how many more points to give a home team, usually close to 4 although it varies depending on sport and so on. True, there has been no assignments for home court advantage, make the adjustment as needed by your own determination.

                                        BTW keep in mind these NCAA tourney games play for the most part in neutral territory. If you go to the site and use his stuff for NIT games that are also going now then you do need to remember to add 4 points for the home team. Oh here's the link if anyone needs it:



                                        Comment
                                        • Patrick McIrish
                                          SBR MVP
                                          • 09-15-05
                                          • 2864

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Fishhead
                                          McIrish.....you have to much time on your hands, which is a good thing.

                                          I saw someone had posted a thread "if you were just starting out" so I thought this might be of use to some. I still reference his site from time to time on certain things myself. You are probably correct though, too much time indeed.


                                          Comment
                                          • rm18
                                            SBR Posting Legend
                                            • 09-20-05
                                            • 22291

                                            #22
                                            Baylor will have a big home court advantage in Houston as well, Purdue would be in Indiana for the final four but they are the biggest longshot to reach the final four probably.
                                            Comment
                                            • Patrick McIrish
                                              SBR MVP
                                              • 09-15-05
                                              • 2864

                                              #23
                                              Yeah Purdue is going nowhere but home Friday night.

                                              I'd be careful assigning too much to "home court advantage" in the NCAA tourney. Some of the factors when you play on your real home court are diminished in a setting like this. For one thing you are not shooting on your own rims, sure your school might be closer to the arena but I doubt either team has logged long hours there. Also the ticket distributions are probably much different then they would be in a true home game as played in the regular season. In this I *think* they would be split 50/50 between both clubs no matter where the tourney is being played. Fans will travel for this game, I'm sure the NCAA is going to give both schools equal rights to tickets no matter where the game is played.

                                              NIT games which are truly played at home in these rounds absolutely assign 4 points. NCAA tourney games based on which school is closer to their campus you might need a closer look.
                                              Comment
                                              • ji03
                                                SBR MVP
                                                • 06-27-09
                                                • 1144

                                                #24
                                                Thanks for the info.
                                                Comment
                                                • blackbart
                                                  SBR MVP
                                                  • 12-04-07
                                                  • 3833

                                                  #25
                                                  purdue is over ranked due to injury
                                                  cornell is way under ranked
                                                  adjust accordingly
                                                  Comment
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