Anybody notice how much better the Lakers were without Kobe?

[kobefanatic]

kobe's stats for the playoffs in 1999-2000 21.1, 2000-2001 29.4, 2001-2002 26.6 while shaq 30.7 in 99-00, 30.4 in 00-01, 28.5 in 01-02
it's only in the 1st championship season that the point differential was big, in the next 2 seasons they were 1 and 1.9 point differential, besides kobe was 21 in their 1st championship while shaq was in his prime

[THEGREAT30]

Let me correct you, Kobe has won one ring. Shaq delivered him the other three.

[lakerboy]

Didn't he leave and win one with out Kobe in Miami?

I love ruffling the feathers of Kobe fans with this.

No Wade delivered one for Shaq in Miami and now he is looking to grab one off LEbron.

[HoulihansTX]

You guys need to read this crock of shit.

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/columns/story?id=4904657

Another Kobe apologist(dick-rider).

[lyon804]

You guys need to read this crock of shit.

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/columns/story?id=4904657

Another Kobe apologist(dick-rider).

The article was fine until the last 3 sentences.

[HoulihansTX]

The article was fine until the last 3 sentences.

Exactly.

[lyon804]

Exactly.

I agree he is an awesome closer and a big shot maker, but seriously if he was a better team player and encouraged his teamates more and made them better players rather than being the ego maniac how much closing would really be necessary?? My guess is very little.



Two Biggest superstars in the game today... Kobe Bryant, Lebron James.

Funny thing is Lebron is more mature and makes his teamates better and doesn't feel a bit threatened if they bask in the glory a little every now and then... Kobe, wants to keep his teamates as his "supporting cast" or servants if you will..

Seriuosly, I know that guy.. He really hates it the Lakers have played so well without him.

If Kobe had Lebron's mindset who would beat the Lakers?? EVER?

[williams22]

I agree he is an awesome closer and a big shot maker, but seriously if he was a better team player and encouraged his teamates more and made them better players rather than being the ego maniac how much closing would really be necessary?? My guess is very little.



Two Biggest superstars in the game today... Kobe Bryant, Lebron James.

Funny thing is Lebron is more mature and makes his teamates better and doesn't feel a bit threatened if they bask in the glory a little every now and then... Kobe, wants to keep his teamates as his "supporting cast" or servants if you will..

Seriuosly, I know that guy.. He really hates it the Lakers have played so well without him.

If Kobe had Lebron's mindset who would beat the Lakers?? EVER?

Just watch how Kobe acts when he's sitting on the bench versus Lebron. That's all you need to know. Lebron is as vocal and supportive when he's out of the game as he is when he's on the court. The guy is the ultimate in unselfishness and takes as much pride in setting a teammate up to get the glory as he does in doing it himself.

Has anyone here seen the Kobe documentary with Spike Lee? What a joke. He makes blatantly fake efforts to interact with teammates in that game to appease the camera and even then it's minimal.

[SpectacularBid]

It was just one game but Paul Gasol showed how great he is

[lyon804]

Just watch how Kobe acts when he's sitting on the bench versus Lebron. That's all you need to know. Lebron is as vocal and supportive when he's out of the game as he is when he's on the court. The guy is the ultimate in unselfishness and takes as much pride in setting a teammate up to get the glory as he does in doing it himself.

Has anyone here seen the Kobe documentary with Spike Lee? What a joke. He makes blatantly fake efforts to interact with teammates in that game to appease the camera and even then it's minimal.

Yea man. we all know Bryant is just pretty much a prick. A talented one no less. Like I said I am unbiased. Could care less about the Cavs or Lakers, but understand your point about the difference between Lebron and Kobe... Lebron's charisma is electrofying and energizes his teammates. The players on his team are his biggest fans. You wouldn't dare say that about Bryant. Lebron's teammates are actually giddy about playing with him.. Industry insiders says Lebron has the biggest following of fans gawking at him before the game on the road.. The biggest since MJ.

Byrant is talented, but he is not Lebron James good or MJ good. I will say Bryant is a better closer than Lebron in hitting the big shot. I also recognize if Bryant played like LJ that big shots would rarely be needed.


I am old enough that I watched Jordan in his prime and of course I have watched Kobe... You know what the real difference is.... When the game is on the line and Jordan needed to hit a game winner or clincher there was no defense for him.. Most of his shots he created so much separation he was wide ass open by beating guys off the dribble... Kobe Bryant... they can guard that bitch in the clutch, but he still makes some contested shots. Jordan's shots were usualy not contested in crunch time because he created so much separation....


It's like this Williams.. Take Lebron... a lockdown defender when he wants to be late in a games right?? Jordan would have still separated from him and got a clean look in his prime... Do you think Kobe would get a clean look of Lebron if it was a clutch possesion??? NO!!

Now I took this debate elsewhere, but sometimes that happens.

[HoulihansTX]

It was just one game but Paul Gasol showed how great he is

3 games, including two on the road.

Won @Portland for the first time in 9 tries.
Destroyed the Spurs @Home
Cooled off the scorching Hot Jazz @Utah


Lets just see if Odom/Gasol's production tails off once Kobe enters starting lineup. If it does I wont post in this thread anymore.

But I doubt it.

[letitburn]

spot on lyon

[vic]

Cleveland is a good team and Lebron is the best player in the game today and probably the greatest player that ever lived in the modern era. As I have mentioned before he probably would make the Nets right now a 50 game winner. He's that good. That being said Lebron is not going to overthrow 3 7'0 footers "IF" and "IF" Kobe doesn't try to prove he is better than Lebron if they meet in the Finals. Another compliment to your favorite player... "If Kobe played with the same intentions as Lebron heads up against Cleveland it's game over for Cleveland. LA's supporing cast is just better than Cleveland's.

As far as the Cavs playing LA good that is the regular season. The Cavs are much more interested in proving a point and play those games like a playoff game. LA has not played them when they have been interested yet.

As far as Mo scoring on Fisher.. IMO you are in the beginning phases of seeing less of Fisher. With the emergence of Shannon Brown and Farmar the minutes of Fisher are going to be phased out little by little.

Now these are just my opinions and we are all entitled to them, but keem in mind my opinions are just as unbiased as they come. I am not a fan of neither team or any other team. I am a gambler of NBA not a fan. Actually, I like MLB I just bet NBA for additional income.

You are dead on, by then Fisher is coming off the bench, that's another advantage. Mo is a liability on defense himself, Lakers will exploit that with Lamar off the bench, Bynum will pull Shaq out to the perimiter. Kobe go to the pt. & post Mo up or run the high p/r all day with Gasol. Oh! Forgot Lamar can hit the three too.

[DOPEMAN]

anyone thinking the lakers are better without kobe is very silly...

[HoulihansTX]

Had to dig this from the grave.


Gasol having a monster game in Denver right now.

Vujacic going off.


And dont bring up the Cavs vs. Bulls today. Very different, b/c Bulls record is 38-40. Denver 51-27. And they play in the West.

[zogdog]

The Lakers would be better if they had a more unselfish SG that could still close games. The talent level on that team is sickening.

[talnted]

I will definitely say that the ball sees much more rotation with kobe out. But I will not agree with the fact that kobe (the best closer in sports) makes the team worse.

[talnted]

anyone thinking the lakers are better without kobe is very silly...

amen brother. the team appears to play better as every player sees more action. gasol/bynum/fisher usually step up. But no one can replace the ultimate competitor...

[Preston09]

I agree, they play better team ball without him.

[HoulihansTX]

t (the best closer in sports)

the ultimate competitor...

U sound like an analyst for ESPN

[HoulihansTX]

the ultimate competitor...

And he decided to sit out a road game in Denver, while his team competed

[talnted]

so that he can compete 100% when it actually matters.

[Grind House]

I know his finger isn't still broken, so why is he still wearing that cast shit? And to anyone saying the Lakers would be contenders is wrong. That team is shallow as hell. None of those bench players are reliable like that. All I see on this team is Odom and Gasol.

[Jak]

Just as long as sasha does not play I'm happy

[freelee]

It's amazing how so many people fall for the kobe hype he's a glorified prime Jerry Stackhouse who happened to play with a prime Shaq and the most stacked team of the FA era.

[freelee]

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/11/05/clutch.numbersgame/index.html

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Anybody still think kobe is clutch and the "closer"?

[freelee]

Kobe is all hype he can't win a single playoff series without an all star team around him if you switch Lebron and kobe the Lakers win 75 games and might sweep all the way thru the Finals the Cavs would barely sneak in the playoffs and get bounced round 1

[freelee]

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

kobe shot a horrid 25% by far the worst of any decent player in the NBA so not only is kobe not the best closer in the game like he's hype suggests he's actually the absolute worst amazing how ESPN can influence people.

[Wilforth]

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/feature...ame/index.html

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Anybody still think kobe is clutch and the "closer"?

Wow! What a revelation!

[talnted]

yea ive seen these stats kobe's % could be better, however .500 in playoff game winning shots is pretty good considering these are the games that really matter. I cant honestly contribute to this conversation because im pretty biased, my favorite players as a kid were Allen Iverson and Kobe. Good points by all.

[freelee]

4-8 in the playoffs wow he really showed up when it mattered most you've got to be kidding me Lebron James is already 4-8 in the playoffs and Dwane Wade is 2-2 100% not to mentions Caron Butler is 2-3

[Preston09]

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/feature...ame/index.html

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Anybody still think kobe is clutch and the "closer"?

Kobe is all hype he can't win a single playoff series without an all star team around him if you switch Lebron and kobe the Lakers win 75 games and might sweep all the way thru the Finals the Cavs would barely sneak in the playoffs and get bounced round 1

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

kobe shot a horrid 25% by far the worst of any decent player in the NBA so not only is kobe not the best closer in the game like he's hype suggests he's actually the absolute worst amazing how ESPN can influence people.

4-8 in the playoffs wow he really showed up when it mattered most you've got to be kidding me Lebron James is already 4-8 in the playoffs and Dwane Wade is 2-2 100% not to mentions Caron Butler is 2-3

Nice Obviously the media really makes or breaks a player in professional sports. We always see all of Kobe' makes over and over and over but never really see the miss'

[freelee]

Nice Obviously the media really makes or breaks a player in professional sports. We always see all of Kobe' makes over and over and over but never really see the miss'

Exactly kobe is definately a talent but he's been hyped up because he plays in LA Jerry Stackhouse would have had a similiar career with similiar hype if he had been drafted by LA and played second banana on Shaq's championship teams

[williams22]

Nice Obviously the media really makes or breaks a player in professional sports. We always see all of Kobe' makes over and over and over but never really see the miss'

Exactly.

Exactly kobe is definately a talent but he's been hyped up because he plays in LA Jerry Stackhouse would have had a similiar career with similiar hype if he had been drafted by LA and played second banana on Shaq's championship teams

Let's not get carried away. I hate Kobe to no end, but saying he's equivalent to Stackhouse is completely insulting. I'd rather have Stackhouse as a teammate tho.

[williams22]

Look what happens when Gasol gets shots...only good things.