ky derby

**floridagolfer** · 05-09-17, 06:10 AM

I have a question concerning Kentucky Derby prices. Are the payouts computed on the handle taken in only in Kentucky, or are all bets from around the country included? Do I assume that the prices posted at Churchill Downs are the prices paid out regardless of where a wager was made?

**harthebar** · 05-09-17, 07:28 AM

Yes. The pools are from all over the country. That offers otb. Internet. Like tvg. Twins spires.
It all goes right into Churchill Downs .....but not your local bookies. Or those oversea bookies they get ......so if you were going to make a play. At let's just say yonkers, mountaineer Pocono. Say if you wanted to make a 500 win bet. Use your local book . I don't like the overseas places much. . It won't hurt the odds. But making a big bet like that. At one of the tracks will take a 12 to 1 horses and make it. 2 to 1 ..
I shouldn't have put Yonkers in there. .. they get a better handle. Rosecrofts. I seen it there where they have 65. To win on a horse. ..I went a little overboard on the question .......lol. Churchill handle is nothing. On any other day but derby day.......I bet they make more on that one day then they do the entire meet .....I think on the one horse on derby day there was almost 1 million to dhow on him alone. And he still paid 15.60 to show

**floridagolfer** · 05-09-17, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by harthebar

Yes. The pools are from all over the country. That offers otb. Internet. Like tvg. Twins spires.
It all goes right into Churchill Downs .....but not your local bookies. Or those oversea bookies they get ......so if you were going to make a play. At let's just say yonkers, mountaineer Pocono. Say if you wanted to make a 500 win bet. Use your local book . I don't like the overseas places much. . It won't hurt the odds. But making a big bet like that. At one of the tracks will take a 12 to 1 horses and make it. 2 to 1 ..
I shouldn't have put Yonkers in there. .. they get a better handle. Rosecrofts. I seen it there where they have 65. To win on a horse. ..I went a little overboard on the question .......lol. Churchill handle is nothing. On any other day but derby day.......I bet they make more on that one day then they do the entire meet .....I think on the one horse on derby day there was almost 1 million to dhow on him alone. And he still paid 15.60 to show

So then, how is a trifecta payout (or any exotic bet) calculated when Kentucky's takeout might be different than New York's, which might be different than California's, which might be different than Pennsylvania, which might be different than Florida, which might be different . . .

**StackinGreen** · 05-09-17, 09:03 AM

The OTB will always have a higher takeout than the local track. If you are betting on a Churchill Downs race, you are subject to the WPS pool takeout and exotic takeouts for that track (CD) or that race, then your local OTB establishment takes an extra 1-2% something like that, as per the law of that state. Straight forward.

I recall being at Arlington Park (LIVE, in person) when they had their OWN betting pool for the race. That was cool. It allowed you to bet either at CD, for example, or at Arlington against just local bettors. In that scenario you would be subject only to Arlington's takeout and the laws of IL. No OTB tax/surcharge, obviously. Also, you could see if a horse you liked gave better odds, so in certain circumstances, it was a double win.

**harthebar** · 05-09-17, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by floridagolfer

So then, how is a trifecta payout (or any exotic bet) calculated when Kentucky's takeout might be different than New York's, which might be different than California's, which might be different than Pennsylvania, which might be different than Florida, which might be different . . .

The takeout is all the same. For every state. When the monet goes into the CD pools. Example. If someone bet 200 win on a horse at CD. FROM SANTA ANITA. they still. Take out. 15 % from the pool. % might be off. Don't know the exact take out. Or if some one bet 200 from Belmont. Same % goes into the pool. Now that CD. Has the 15 % IN THERE POCKET. FOR THEM. THEY MIGHT KICK BACK 2% TO THE TRACKS. THAT BET IT ....... YOU GO TO BORGATA IN ATLANTIC CITY MAKE THE 200 WIN BET AT CD. 85 % goes into the pool. CD gets 15% they may kick back 1 % back to casino. What I hear CD is far hard to work with. They don't even allow a live feed on tvg. AND THAT ANOTHER THING TRACKS do negotiate. There feed. Every track makes a different deal. . Hope that makes sense. Someone else help out with answer

**harthebar** · 05-09-17, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by StackinGreen

The OTB will always have a higher takeout than the local track. If you are betting on a Churchill Downs race, you are subject to the WPS pool takeout and exotic takeouts for that track (CD) or that race, then your local OTB establishment takes an extra 1-2% something like that, as per the law of that state. Straight forward.

I recall being at Arlington Park (LIVE, in person) when they had their OWN betting pool for the race. That was cool. It allowed you to bet either at CD, for example, or at Arlington against just local bettors. In that scenario you would be subject only to Arlington's takeout and the laws of IL. No OTB tax/surcharge, obviously. Also, you could see if a horse you liked gave better odds, so in certain circumstances, it was a double win.

They are 2 tracks that are hard to deal with. I believe they are twins spires. They are a pain....

**JBEX** · 05-09-17, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by harthebar

The takeout is all the same. For every state. When the monet goes into the CD pools. Example. If someone bet 200 win on a horse at CD. FROM SANTA ANITA. they still. Take out. 15 % from the pool. % might be off. Don't know the exact take out. Or if some one bet 200 from Belmont. Same % goes into the pool. Now that CD. Has the 15 % IN THERE POCKET. FOR THEM. THEY MIGHT KICK BACK 2% TO THE TRACKS. THAT BET IT ....... YOU GO TO BORGATA IN ATLANTIC CITY MAKE THE 200 WIN BET AT CD. 85 % goes into the pool. CD gets 15% they may kick back 1 % back to casino. What I hear CD is far hard to work with. They don't even allow a live feed on tvg. AND THAT ANOTHER THING TRACKS do negotiate. There feed. Every track makes a different deal. . Hope that makes sense. Someone else help out with answer

think it's more like 3-4% and the signal fee is negotiated as you said

I

**floridagolfer** · 05-09-17, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by harthebar

The takeout is all the same. For every state.

Since when? I'd have to go find it, but many years ago I used to have a chart that gave the takeout for every kind of bet at every track in the country. Some of the takeout was different by what I consider a lot -- five percent or even more. This was in the day when I was going to the OTB a lot; I threw it away because I bet the ponies rather infrequently these days.

**harthebar** · 05-09-17, 10:30 AM

https://www.sportsbettingacumen.com/horse-racing/takeout-chart-north-american-racetracks

**harthebar** · 05-09-17, 10:52 AM

You know what. Just talked to a buddy. Who is the manager in a new jersey OTB. Belmont takeout is 16% for a win bet. So if you bet 100 win on a horse at Belmont. Goes directly into the pool. After the race at payout Time. Belmont takes 16% pays the public 84%

Out of the 16% the otb get 10% which is 5000 and Belmont get 6% which is 3000

Every track has a different deal. With each state. And otb. But they are all close

Hope I got that right

**JBEX** · 05-09-17, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by JBEX

think it's more like 3-4% and the signal fee is negotiated as you said

I

think I got this backwards.. the 3-4% if that's what it is goes to the track and the simulcast site or adw keeps the lion's share.. hart you said belmont gets back 6% which is a lot but then again it's a better product

**harthebar** · 05-09-17, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by floridagolfer

Since when? I'd have to go find it, but many years ago I used to have a chart that gave the takeout for every kind of bet at every track in the country. Some of the takeout was different by what I consider a lot -- five percent or even more. This was in the day when I was going to the OTB a lot; I threw it away because I bet the ponies rather infrequently these days.

no i met if CD WIN TAKE OUT IS 16 % I JUST MEANT THAT IF YOU MAKE A WIN BET FROM FLA, N.J. CALIF. N.Y. INTO CHURCHILL DOWNS POOL ITS ALL GOING TO BE 16 % JUST FOR THAT TRACK....... I JUST POSTED THE CHART FOR EACH TRACK

**harthebar** · 05-09-17, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by JBEX

think I got this backwards.. the 3-4% if that's what it is goes to the track and the simulcast site or adw keeps the lion's share.. hart you said belmont gets back 6% which is a lot but then again it's a better product

WHAT DO YOU MEAN J BY 3 OR 4 % I MEAN BELMONT TAKEOUT FOR A WIN BET IS 16 % ,SO IF THE OTB IN NEW JERSEY A PERSON BETS 1000 TO WIN ON A HORSE AT BELMONT 160 IS TAKEN OUT 16% THAT LEFT 84 % TO PAY THE BETTORS ..........BUT SINCE THE BET CAME FROM NEW JERSEY OUT OF THE 16% THEY GET 10% BACK 100.00 AND BELMONT KEEPS 6% 60.00 .
BUT YOU MAKE THE SAME PLAY AT THE TRACK BELMONT GETS THE ENTIRE 16% ........AND AS YOU SAID .EVERY OTB signal fee is negotiated

**harthebar** · 05-09-17, 12:09 PM

Am i right in explaning that >

**harthebar** · 05-09-17, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by floridagolfer

i have a question concerning kentucky derby prices. Are the payouts computed on the handle taken in only in kentucky, or are all bets from around the country included? Do i assume that the prices posted at churchill downs are the prices paid out regardless of where a wager was made?

think i answered you question wrong...but you have me going......yes no matter where you made the bet......whatever state ...the payouts are the same...........the only difference is that the state where you made the bet.......the % of there kick back is different,but it does not change the payout on the tote board.......as i said new jersy get 10% back on every bet .......wheather if its a pick 6 tri super. They just get a percentage back of the toal amount wagered thru the entire race card.............so if the otb in new jersy takes 100,000 on the churchill card for a day ...they get 10,000 back from churchill on the same day if belmont .the players bet 80,000 they get 8,000 back...now each state has its own deal....

**StackinGreen** · 05-09-17, 12:35 PM

Amazing that the pick 5 is nearly .15 across the board, I've been playing that much more frequently than the p4 (.24!), I think from now on I'm only gonna play p5

**JBEX** · 05-09-17, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by harthebar

WHAT DO YOU MEAN J BY 3 OR 4 % I MEAN BELMONT TAKEOUT FOR A WIN BET IS 16 % ,SO IF THE OTB IN NEW JERSEY A PERSON BETS 1000 TO WIN ON A HORSE AT BELMONT 160 IS TAKEN OUT 16% THAT LEFT 84 % TO PAY THE BETTORS ..........BUT SINCE THE BET CAME FROM NEW JERSEY OUT OF THE 16% THEY GET 10% BACK 100.00 AND BELMONT KEEPS 6% 60.00 .
BUT YOU MAKE THE SAME PLAY AT THE TRACK BELMONT GETS THE ENTIRE 16% ........AND AS YOU SAID .EVERY OTB signal fee is negotiated

all that matters I believe from the satellite sites perspective is what they keep.. what the host signal take is might affect the fee charged to the site by a % or two... at the end of the day whatever that site takes in they make the negotiated %. so if borgata takes in 100k of bets from belmont they make 10k at the 10% rate you said.. so I guess if they paid out 90k in returns they'd send nothing to nyra..if they paid out 120k on that same 100k they'd have to get the extra 20k back plus 12k commission on the 120k... so belmont would owe them 32k

**harthebar** · 05-09-17, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by JBEX

all that matters I believe from the satellite sites perspective is what they keep.. what the host signal take is might affect the fee charged to the site by a % or two... at the end of the day whatever that site takes in they make the negotiated %. so if borgata takes in 100k of bets from belmont they make 10k at the 10% rate you said.. so I guess if they paid out 90k in returns they'd send nothing to nyra..if they paid out 120k on that same 100k they'd have to get the extra 20k back plus 12k commission on the 120k... so belmont would owe them 32k

i know my buddy said it all settles out weekly ..............for each track......i get your point....actually he just told me at his place ..a mother and daught picked 4 numbers....and hit the sperfecta at CD derby race i think he said it paid 85,000 they took out 23,000 to the irs.....another story i do not agree with........but yea........i guess that payout figures into that......nice hit...

**JBEX** · 05-09-17, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by harthebar

i know my buddy said it all settles out weekly ..............for each track......i get your point....actually he just told me at his place ..a mother and daught picked 4 numbers....and hit the sperfecta at CD derby race i think he said it paid 85,000 they took out 23,000 to the irs.....another story i do not agree with........but yea........i guess that payout figures into that......nice hit...

yeah they're probably owed money on that day(otb)

**JBEX** · 05-11-17, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by JBEX

one of the other really interesting pedigree things has to do with the great bold ruler .. champion horse of the late 50's and great sire of the 60's through early 70's..He is the great grandsire (paternal) of seattle slew and of course the sire of secretariat.. ap Indy is 4x3 to bold ruler as he's out of secretariat mare by seattle slew.. storm cat also is out of a secretariat mare ..thats pretty amazing being the dam sire of two mega sires.. secretariat also the dam sire of gone west, woodman and summer squall all solid sires when they were at stud.. his blood will be flowing through a lot of good horses for a long time to come

just to correct the record woodman out of a buckpasser mare who was another prolific damsire I believe.. I know off the top of my head he was seeking the gold's ds.. he was an elite sire but not on the level of the others I mentioned earlier.. summer squall was actually a half brother to a p indy out of storm bird (sire of storm cat)