Lakers vs Clippers Home Court Advantage

[rfr3sh]

I was thinking about this, since both teams play in the same arena, what happens when they play each other?
does the home court advantage really apply to whose ever hardwood is on the court
or is it nullified in this situation

[Mikail]

90% or more of the fans at staples when the Lakers and Clippers play are Lakers fans. So I'd say the Lakers get the "homecourt advantage" Actually it's funny how the Lakers sometimes have more fans in the stands in some away games all over the U.S

[benjy]

Interesting question.

How much of home court advantage is derived from fans cheering? How much from not needing to travel and getting to sleep in your own bed? Or from having all the trainers/equipment/etc right where you're used to having them?

[rfr3sh]

I think it is more of the feel of being at home, not the fans

[MJFtheGenius]

The books will treat it as a road game since the general public does not know they play in the same building

[bestbet23]

The books will treat it as a road game since the general public does not know they play in the same building

I agree with you.

Something to consider is that the Clippers will be more rested while the Lakers play tonight.

[smartbets]

but season ticket holders are different for each matchup, depending on who the home team is

i believe that buying season tickets to the lakers does not get you season tickets to clippers home games too, and vice versa

not that that makes a big difference, but it is a factor, i am just not sure how much of one it is...

i guess somebody could ask the players if more "stars" come when the lakers are the home team vs. when the clippers are the home team, and if any of that has any effect on the game - lol

[Sawyer]

Lakers get +3 bonus while Clippers get -3, LoL.

One man goes to bar, mets a girl and starts to chat. Hot chick asks, so what's your job? Man replies proudly, I'm a basketball player, playing in NBA. Girl surprised, Really? Cool! Which team? Man replies, Los Angeles Clippers. Girl yells, hey but you said you're playing in NBA?

[Cookie Monster]

Homefield advantage is a widely studied and discussed issue. There are mainly two camps: Some people say that it is caused by the public (having effect on players and arbiters), and the other guys state that the physical place is the main reason (confidence for being in a well-known place, particularities of the field, rest, etc).

In real games, most of the advantage happens in the first part of the game and dilutes as the game progresses. To me, this is a clear proof that the public is not as important as many think. Cheering tends to increase as the game progresses, just when HFA is smaller.

[Dark Horse]

Lakers are in the visitors locker room, but all their banners are there to greet them. Not taken down for Clippers games. So I would consider this a neutral ground for this game.

[Dark Horse]

In real games, most of the advantage happens in the first part of the game and dilutes as the game progresses.

I would file that under 'complete fabrication'.

[smartbets]

do laker and clipper players share lockers in the home team locker room? what i mean is when the lakers are home vs other teams and the clippers are home vs other teams

like does blake griffin use the same locker as lamar odom, etc.

just wondering

[Cookie Monster]

I would file that under 'complete fabrication'.

Well, then this academic article is 'completely fabricated'

http://www.bepress.com/jqas/vol3/iss4/2/

[jgilmartin]

do laker and clipper players share lockers in the home team locker room? what i mean is when the lakers are home vs other teams and the clippers are home vs other teams

like does blake griffin use the same locker as lamar odom, etc.

just wondering

Hmm...that is a good question. Hard to imagine they wouldn't at least have their own sections of the locker room. Perhaps there is a Lakers half and a Clippers half.

[MJFtheGenius]

do laker and clipper players share lockers in the home team locker room? what i mean is when the lakers are home vs other teams and the clippers are home vs other teams

like does blake griffin use the same locker as lamar odom, etc.

just wondering

They actually both share the home locker room

Its easier this way they do not have to move all their stuff

[astrodomer]

You mean to tell me at halftime they are in the same locker room? or before the game?

[Dark Horse]

Well, then this academic article is 'completely fabricated'

http://www.bepress.com/jqas/vol3/iss4/2/

I don't need to read that to know that home court in basketball can manifest many times during the game. A common example would be a close game in the closing minutes. Academic articles and gambling. Let's just say the authors are seldom the ones putting their money where their mouth is.

As to the game in question. Clippers best quarters were the 2nd and 3rd. Lakers pulled out game on final shot (as the much better team), but Clippers easily covered. Anyway, basketball is much more fluid than a general statement such as the one you gave. In soccer I could see home field manifesting especially in the first 15-20 minutes, of pressure by the home team, but this is about basketball.

[dvsbmx]

90% or more of the fans at staples when the Lakers and Clippers play are Lakers fans. So I'd say the Lakers get the "homecourt advantage" Actually it's funny how the Lakers sometimes have more fans in the stands in some away games all over the U.S

This just brought another question into my mind. How much is home court advantage worth for the home team when the Lakers are on the road?

[Mikail]

This just brought another question into my mind. How much is home court advantage worth for the home team when the Lakers are on the road?

I've often pondered this one. Watching the Lakers play on the road you almost always see droves of LA fans in the seats and i'm sure they are not fans from LA They are most likely local.

[Pokerjoe]

I would file that under 'complete fabrication'.

You'd be wrong.

[Pokerjoe]

The books will treat it as a road game since the general public does not know they play in the same building

In the last 10 years, when the Lakers have been the home team, they've been favored by 8, on avg, and when the Clippers have been, the Lakers have been faves of 6, on avg. So the market is saying HCA is 1 pt in this instance.

[Dark Horse]

I sure would like to be wrong on this one.

[Dark Horse]

Quick check of NBA games played so far this month (December). Using shortest bettable time unit at start of game of 1Q. For single digit full game spreads, the home team recorded 28 1Q wins and 28 1Q losses. There were two pushes. For double digits spreads the distribution could favor the home favorites in the 1Q, but sample size is too small.

Checked November for DD home faves in 1Q. No edge.

Was worth a shot, but initial filing unchanged.

[Pokerjoe]

Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4

Team: 25.1 24.7 24.4 24.1 99.1
Opp: 24.0 23.8 23.5 23.8 95.7

NBA results for the last 10 years, about 12,000 games.
HCA
Q1=1.1
Q2=0.9
Q3=0.9
Q4=0.3

That's a very large drop off of advantage in the 4th quarter, Dark Horse.

[magicmajenta]

My question is everytime the Lakers and Clippers play their home games at Staples Center they have to repaint the court everytime for the team colors??? Anybody know. Man, that's a lot of work every time each team plays their home games.

[Dark Horse]

Pokerjoe, you can't trust numbers blindly. Many winning teams take it easy in the 4th quarter, because the game is already decided. If the game is close with 5 minutes to go, you will get a very different number.

magicmajenta. lol They take the wooden floor out and put in another. Full time job because they play hockey in that arena as well.

[Cookie Monster]

Dark Horse, I respect you a lot, your comments are usually highly informed. So I am somewhat surprised on your stance on this issue. From 'complete fabrication' to 'I don't need to read the work already done' to 'the numbers may be skewed for x reason' (which, by the way, is already covered in the aforementioned article).

I know, the HFA stacked in the first parts of the game is counterintuitive. As many sports fans, I grew up believing that the public is a large component of HFA (a belief used by the teams to sell more tickets). So, I also was surprised when I read articles like that one. Eventually the idea kicked in, as later I found the same pattern in MLB (first inning advantage is much larger than other innings) and NFL (the home team is even at slight disadvantage in 4th quarter in tied games, although the sample may not be enough).

Brian Burke at NFL advanced stats website penned an interesting article, linking the HFA to evolution. Looks convincing to me, but his hypothesis is very hard to prove. Link:

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/09/hawks-doves-and-home-field-advantage.html

[Dark Horse]

I'm interested in any practical application. Are you saying that by blindly betting on home teams in the 1st inning, or 1st quarter, or 1st period, across the board, a bettor would end up ahead?

I just don't see it in the NBA. I looked at it briefly, because I might have been wrong, and came up with no edge. Pokerjoe mentioned the progression to the 4Q, but I already studied the 4Q and why it shows a different picture. So that is no reason for the 1Q to stand out. I also don't see how an average 1 pt 1Q advantage to the home team would give me an edge against the spread.

Basketball, more so than other sports, is a game of motivational fluctuations (expressed in scoring runs). I'm interested in those runs - positive or negative-, and the factors that set them off. Intensity is never even throughout a sports game, but in basketball that unevenness translates directly into the score. For instance, I have no doubt, whatsoever, that when a home crowd loudly chants 'de-fense! de-fense!' that increases defensive intensity by the home team. That type of support happens very often in the NBA, and only for home teams. Basketball is full of these things, and they're worth a lot more than 1 point, and therefore much more practical to me. How many points is a timeout worth, per coach, for live betting? That kind of stuff.

As to my criticism of academic reports about sports. They're written by academics. They typically come up with some type of angle to research and write a report about, because that's what they're supposed to do. Find something to write a report about, that is. But they're not gamblers, so they're not really practiced in where to look. They're not practiced in evaluating the strength of the original hypothesis where it comes to profitability. So they write something and it looks interesting on the surface, but when it comes to translating the idea into cash it's practically worthless. That's my general opinion of such articles, and it is almost always confirmed. That's why I don't read them anymore.

[Pokerjoe]

Pokerjoe, you can't trust numbers blindly. Many winning teams take it easy in the 4th quarter, because the game is already decided. If the game is close with 5 minutes to go, you will get a very different number.

magicmajenta. lol They take the wooden floor out and put in another. Full time job because they play hockey in that arena as well.

The average NBA home win is 3' pts, and teams with 3' pt leads aren't taking it easy.

You have no evidence to back you up, and no logic, and so instead you're just decrying the evidence presented. Not disputing it--you've presented no countering evidence--merely decrying it with duh-babble, like "you can't trust numbers blindly."

You're just wrong here, and you can either check your ego and learn something, or dwell further in your ignorance. We aren't "blindly" believing in the numbers. We're studying them, then believing them. You, otoh, are "blindly" believing in old gambler's tales. And I'm going to let you, after this. I'm not arguing with you further here.

Last week I was driving through the Mojave, enjoying the (distant) scenery, when I happened to look at my speedometer and see that I was doing 90. Didn't at all feel like it. So I had a choice: "blindly" believe the number on the speedometer, or "blindly" believe my instincts, which were that I wasn't speeding, because, without background, it didn't feel like it.

Which do you think was more accurate--my "feelings" about how fast I was going, or the speedometer?

Which do you thing is more accurate--your "feelings" about HCA, or the numbers?

[Dark Horse]

I'm not trying to convince anybody. Bet all NBA home teams 1st quarters. Your '90' may be too slow for some. Good luck.

[Flying Dutchman]

As a modeler, you have to do with the averages (I'd like to do medians but 1/2 point chunks at best are too coarse, maybe geometric mean? - crap, you have negative numbers so no) and as poker and cookie point out, those HFAs are mostly in the early game.

Indeed, if you don't use averages how do you pick the situation where you apply it? I'm serious here, maybe DH has something to think on.

I've graded this game in the past as neutral, but interested to see that the market grades it as 1 pt.

[Dark Horse]

It's funny because the game itself was decided on a last second basket -by Derek Fisher-, that would be very rare in that situation for road teams. He just drove to the basket for a rather simple layup (with slight degree of difficulty). You don't normally see that from road teams. Most of the time they draw up some play and try to get a shooter open. But Fisher knew the court inside out. Game over.

Lebron was talking about a similar familiarity with the court after the Miami win in Cleveland.

[rfr3sh]

I dont get what you mean by familiarity of the court
arent all courts exactly the same

[durito]

I'm not trying to convince anybody. Bet all NBA home teams 1st quarters. Your '90' may be too slow for some. Good luck.

The books are well aware of this when they set quarter lines.

[Dark Horse]

I dont get what you mean by familiarity of the court
arent all courts exactly the same

All I can tell you is that a reporter asked Lebron if familiarity with the court had anything to do with the game he just played. Lebron smiled, with a hint of surprise that a reporter would understand such a nuance, and confirmed, almost gleefully, that he knew the court inside out. It was an interesting moment, because players, like coaches, usually say the same predictable things; but this was a crack in that armor, a brief glance behind the scenes.

On that note, Steve Kerr is a rare commentator who gives insights that may be useful to gamblers. He talks about insiders stuff that other commentators never go into.