[Plaza23]

So how is it that tomlin from Steelers has won a superbowl and continues to win in the nfl if he lacks the analytical skills because he is black. Or how can sumlin beat saban.

I bet on the rule. Not the exceptions. That is how to be +EV when it comes to gambling.

[Plaza23]

So if black coaches hit at the same rate ATS as they have since the start of 2011 this season and I start betting against them from this point forward, I will return what percent of my investment????

I'm going to jump on this right now! We should probably delete this thread before the cats out of the bag and all my profits are sucked out of the lines.

Since 2012 and onward, black coaches ATS are:

233-273-9

54% wins betting against them

Payout:

(54*100) = 5,400 win
(46*110) = 5,060 loss

And that is knowing nothing about the teams. Just on pure race alone. People may suggest small sample size but we have sample now of 500+ games.

Feel free though to disregard it. We need to keep the money on the black coaches to get make this even more profitable.

I'll try to update my 1st post about this season and see how it plays out. Blacks are off to a terrible start week 1. 2-10 ATS and ML vs non-black coaches.

[Plaza23]

What is there about 12 black coaches, its funny when Stanford coach was only losing 2 games a year nobody congratulated him here but always nitpicked the 1 or 2 losses he had like the Michigan State game in the bowl. You guys need to stop, if there are only about 12 black coaches and most at programs that arnt good then there seems to leave well over 100 white coaches and yes you guessed it most of them have very bad records. Difference is they are given time, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th chances to succeed. Black coach with white qb and white qb throws 4 ints, and lose the game, blame the black coach, white coach with black qb and black qb scores 4 tds but lose the game, blame the black qb. Yesterday Purdue loses, white qb throws 4 ints, blame the black coach for awful play calling, nevermind the fact that John Shoop the white offensive coordinator is calling the plays. Lets just blame LeBron for it all and call it a day.

'

Keep betting on the blacks then. Like I said, we need money on the other side to keep this going.

[terpkeg]

Since 2012 and onward, black coaches ATS are:

233-273-9

54% wins betting against them

Payout:

(54*100) = 5,400 win
(46*110) = 5,060 loss

And that is knowing nothing about the teams. Just on pure race alone. People may suggest small sample size but we have sample now of 500+ games.

Feel free though to disregard it. We need to keep the money on the black coaches to get make this even more profitable.

I'll try to update my 1st post about this season and see how it plays out. Blacks are off to a terrible start week 1. 2-10 ATS and ML vs non-black coaches.

I'm only using the numbers your provided which were -ev, so don't really get it. Obviously you can selectively leave out certain data, but without a valid reason to exclude it, doesn't it invalidate your test?

Maybe week one was the fluke, not 2011. 2012-14 likely just random variance. Sample size is too small.

Or, maybe your premise is correct, black coaches get worse results that are not accurately reflected in the line. I just don't think any evidence of that has been presented here.

[terpkeg]

'

Keep betting on the blacks then. Like I said, we need money on the other side to keep this going.

Good luck trying not to "bet on blacks".

[Plaza23]

How did this guy make it past the interview process at Vanderbilt, the best academic institution in the SEC? .

I would guess liberalism. Their prior coach was black, need to hire another black. Same thing happened at Kent State. Look at Stanford - 2 black coaches in Shaw and Johnny Dawkins and they both are mediocre too. Harvard has a black coach in Amaker (a failure at Michigan).

[gs]

Shaw 42-12 last four years but mediocre? Amaker takes Harvard to tournament but considered a failure? You guys must be crazy.

[recon1]

So how is it that tomlin from Steelers has won a superbowl and continues to win in the nfl if he lacks the analytical skills because he is black. Or how can sumlin beat saban.

Tomlin has won off the back of Cowher. Tomlin is proving to be a shitty coach. As the cower influence has escaped so has the winning of this fraud called Mike Tomlin.
Guy is pure garbage!

[recon1]

What is there about 12 black coaches, its funny when Stanford coach was only losing 2 games a year nobody congratulated him here but always nitpicked the 1 or 2 losses he had like the Michigan State game in the bowl. You guys need to stop, if there are only about 12 black coaches and most at programs that arnt good then there seems to leave well over 100 white coaches and yes you guessed it most of them have very bad records. Difference is they are given time, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th chances to succeed. Black coach with white qb and white qb throws 4 ints, and lose the game, blame the black coach, white coach with black qb and black qb scores 4 tds but lose the game, blame the black qb. Yesterday Purdue loses, white qb throws 4 ints, blame the black coach for awful play calling, nevermind the fact that John Shoop the white offensive coordinator is calling the plays. Lets just blame LeBron for it all and call it a day.

Bad example. Shaw took over a team in good shape from harbaugh and inherited a guy you may know his name, they call him Andrew Luck. Now as the years go by and that Luck is gone and the influence of Harbaugh is gone, what direction is this team going?
Kinda like Calahan (spelling) from Indy, when his meal ticket P. Manning went out with neck injury the team went like 1-15!!

[recon1]

I completely hate the pc crap...but this post makes me want to throw up. White people like myself have been given much more opportunity over the years...in coaching, college, and really life in general. I can name several shitty white coaches for every shitty black coach on that list...and based on the above post I would bet on any of them on that list being smarter than you.

Give it a break sandboy. The white hate is pouring from your post. Off subject, but if you think for a minute blacks are mistreated or don't have a BETTER opportunity than non-blacks, then let's just say your not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Like your Pistol Pete avatar, doesn't match your mental confusion though…….

[recon1]

Since 2012 and onward, black coaches ATS are:

233-273-9

54% wins betting against them

Payout:

(54*100) = 5,400 win
(46*110) = 5,060 loss

And that is knowing nothing about the teams. Just on pure race alone. People may suggest small sample size but we have sample now of 500+ games.

Feel free though to disregard it. We need to keep the money on the black coaches to get make this even more profitable.

I'll try to update my 1st post about this season and see how it plays out. Blacks are off to a terrible start week 1. 2-10 ATS and ML vs non-black coaches.

That is very viable information. Seems like you don't even have to attribute a value input for this, but just go straight up black Vs. Non-black…….Very compelling

[Mac4Lyfe]

WTF? Tommy Amaker has been an incredible coach. You do know Michigan was under huge sanctions when he took the job? He has brought more success to not only Harvard but the entire Ivy League, winning actual NCAA tourney games with a school that really can't recruit top talent.

Johnny Dawkins has a higher win percentage then any other Stanford HC not named Mike Montgomery?

WTF are you talking about? Do you just not like ex Duke players?

Have you looked at Shaws record at Stanford? How about Harbaugh? Shaw is 42 - 12, Harbaugh was 29 - 21.End of thread. Don't be a dumbass...

I would guess liberalism. Their prior coach was black, need to hire another black. Same thing happened at Kent State. Look at Stanford - 2 black coaches in Shaw and Johnny Dawkins and they both are mediocre too. Harvard has a black coach in Amaker (a failure at Michigan).

[jtoler]

Bad example. Shaw took over a team in good shape from harbaugh and inherited a guy you may know his name, they call him Andrew Luck. Now as the years go by and that Luck is gone and the influence of Harbaugh is gone, what direction is this team going?
Kinda like Calahan (spelling) from Indy, when his meal ticket P. Manning went out with neck injury the team went like 1-15!!

Nope, very good example because you said yesterday Purdue lost because of the horrible play calling you blamed the white qb's 4 ints on horrible play calling, but refuse to acknowledge that it was the white offensive coordinator calling the plays, you couldnt display harsher racism if you tried. There was no Andrew Luck when Shaw went 12-2 in 2012 and went to the Rose Bowl, there was no Andrew Luck when Shaw went 11-3 in 2013 and went to another Rose Bowl. Hmm, lets see, without Andrew Luck, Harbaugh went 4-8, 5-7, and 8-5. Lets see how many black head coaches you bet against this Saturday. I guarantee nobody will be gambling solely on a team having a black head coach, if so let's see them post the ticket when they do it.

[jtoler]

WTF? Tommy Amaker has been an incredible coach. You do know Michigan was under huge sanctions when he took the job? He has brought more success to not only Harvard but the entire Ivy League, winning actual NCAA tourney games with a school that really can't recruit top talent.

Johnny Dawkins has a higher win percentage then any other Stanford HC not named Mike Montgomery?

WTF are you talking about? Do you just not like ex Duke players?

Have you looked at Shaws record at Stanford? How about Harbaugh? Shaw is 42 - 12, Harbaugh was 29 - 21.End of thread. Don't be a dumbass...

Excluding facts is always the number one clue of a bias, just dumbs down those who start believing whatever nonsense is pushed.

[gambler705]

Wow.

Why "wow" ?
Everything there is true. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, but generally speaking whites are much more intelligent. Try listening to a nba postgame, most of them cant even formulate an English sentence. I dont see why people get their panties in a bunch when the obvious is pointed out.
On the flip side, blacks are generally much better basketball players. If i see a pick up game of 5 blk vs 5 wht, knowing nothing else, i know where my money is as well.

Why does either have to offend anyone? It is what it is....

[Fred The Hammer]

Why look at college? Lets look at the ultimate destination in football....THE NFL

In the last 9 years black coaches have won 5 conference championships out of the 18 teams involved (28%) including 2 SB wins (22%)

This year there are 5 black coaches out of 32 (15%) including Todd Bowles in his first year.

By that simple math....white head coaches just don't match up. Stupid racist thought patterns like this thread are the reason HOFers like Warren Moon had to play in Canada while atleast 20 white QBs that couldn't hold his jock strap started in the NFL.

[Fred The Hammer]

Tomlin has won off the back of Cowher. Tomlin is proving to be a shitty coach. As the cower influence has escaped so has the winning of this fraud called Mike Tomlin.
Guy is pure garbage!

Thats bs....Tomlin isn't the greatest coach in the world but Cowher never had an offense like they have now. Cowher won 1 SB and that was because the refs made it 16 on 11 the entire game. Tomlin goes with the flow and now that the passing rules are loosened up the Steelers can throw it as well as anyone....and I actually don't like Pittsburgh but Tomlin is a pretty good coach.

[Fred The Hammer]

Bad example. Shaw took over a team in good shape from harbaugh and inherited a guy you may know his name, they call him Andrew Luck. Now as the years go by and that Luck is gone and the influence of Harbaugh is gone, what direction is this team going?
Kinda like Calahan (spelling) from Indy, when his meal ticket P. Manning went out with neck injury the team went like 1-15!!

Wrong...completely fkin idiotic and wrong. Caldwell isn't a great coach either but the Colts lost because Bill Polian had a completely worthless piece of shit backup QB named Curtis Painter and they wouldn't replace him BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO LOSE IN THE SUCK FOR LUCK

[sandman0713]

Give it a break sandboy. The white hate is pouring from your post. Off subject, but if you think for a minute blacks are mistreated or don't have a BETTER opportunity than non-blacks, then let's just say your not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Like your Pistol Pete avatar, doesn't match your mental confusion though…….

Lol...the white hate is pouring off of me??? I'm white dumbass...as stated in my post. Just do not agree with the guy saying the color of a person's skin determines their intelligence level. Anyways...have fun with the rest of this worthless debate. Knew by the name of the thread the kind of ignorance I would find inside...yet I was dumb enough to open it anyways.

[recon1]

Nope, very good example because you said yesterday Purdue lost because of the horrible play calling you blamed the white qb's 4 ints on horrible play calling, but refuse to acknowledge that it was the white offensive coordinator calling the plays, you couldnt display harsher racism if you tried. There was no Andrew Luck when Shaw went 12-2 in 2012 and went to the Rose Bowl, there was no Andrew Luck when Shaw went 11-3 in 2013 and went to another Rose Bowl. Hmm, lets see, without Andrew Luck, Harbaugh went 4-8, 5-7, and 8-5. Lets see how many black head coaches you bet against this Saturday. I guarantee nobody will be gambling solely on a team having a black head coach, if so let's see them post the ticket when they do it.

No, head coach controls everything, i repeat: EVERYTHING.
Offense was throttled and by doing so Hazell suffered loss. With Shaw will just have to wait and see.
When i invest i'm not looking to go only based on color of coach, but allocating a value for that aspect.

[recon1]

Thats bs....Tomlin isn't the greatest coach in the world but Cowher never had an offense like they have now. Cowher won 1 SB and that was because the refs made it 16 on 11 the entire game. Tomlin goes with the flow and now that the passing rules are loosened up the Steelers can throw it as well as anyone....and I actually don't like Pittsburgh but Tomlin is a pretty good coach.

Tomlin is utter horse shit. Under Tomlin they've fired very successful Asst. coaches like Arians and Lebeau to name a couple. Reason they fired them was because the piss poor performances on the field from a team with sufficient talent. With all these new coaches and the loosing season coming up in a weak division who are the Steelers gonna blame? the water boys? enough protecting his sorry ass.

[recon1]

Wrong...completely fkin idiotic and wrong. Caldwell isn't a great coach either but the Colts lost because Bill Polian had a completely worthless piece of shit backup QB named Curtis Painter and they wouldn't replace him BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO LOSE IN THE SUCK FOR LUCK

Always place the blame somewhere else….

[recon1]

Lol...the white hate is pouring off of me??? I'm white dumbass...as stated in my post. Just do not agree with the guy saying the color of a person's skin determines their intelligence level. Anyways...have fun with the rest of this worthless debate. Knew by the name of the thread the kind of ignorance I would find inside...yet I was dumb enough to open it anyways.

Your a self hating white then? your full of shit if you think blacks are at some disadvantage.

Look I'm not gonna play PC games as said int title. If an advantage exist to make a wise investment then let's see it or lay it to rest. It's simple, but emotion is getting to you. If you feel like blacks are still being wronged do something about like donate half your check or your wife to UNICEF or whatever other group exist for them.

[ZINISTER]

Like I said earlier you can't change an idiots way of thinking. You make a valid point and proved it with some statistics and the pucie liberals and blacks don't have anything to say but your an idiot. Waste of fukn time bro. Not all blacks are dumb fuks we get it. BUT, a good majority of em are undisciplined, irrational thinking sub-humans. There-now that's some racists shyt and you know what-its fukn true! All you white MFers that have that black dong in your mouth, I give you this question, " If given the chance to walk down the street in a black neighborhood at night or a white neighborhood at night which would you choose?" If it is either or the black one come to Akron, Ohio for a visit and I'll test out answer. Yea your nothing but a bunch of PC pucies. You have no problem confronting a white guy with some racists rant but, let a black guy get shytty and you wouldn't say shyt if you had a mouth full. Because you are a fukn PC PUCIE ! I'm a racists MFer! Raised in the projects with them. How many of you with your pucie views have lived next to em? How many of you played football on an almost all black football team? Not many if any! Are your fukn eyes even open? Had some friends later in life that were teachers. They had your views before they had to deal with them on a personal basis. They can't fukn stand em any longer. Get out, get with em, interact with em, live around em before you give em the benefit of the doubt. Watch the fukn news! Get a fukn clue! I'm out-I'm sure I made a huge impact on the idiot PC PUCIES... I'm going to fuk my black wife.

[gs]

Zinister I think anyone could have the same opinion about all colors. There some places where you wouldn't walk in a Hispanic neighborhood or a White neighborhood. If your black I dare you to go and live in a white neighborhood in Vidor, Texas or Eastville, Ark. Point I'm trying to get at is there are a bunch of dumbasses regardless if you are a craker, redneck, wetback, zipperhead, ******, etc...... That is why in prison you will find gangs of all races. If you look at the black coaches who lead top tier schools such as the stanfords, Texas a&m etc.. they have done pretty good. Shaw 42-12, Sumlin 64-28, etc.. So be my guess and bet against them.

[recon1]

Like I said earlier you can't change an idiots way of thinking. You make a valid point and proved it with some statistics and the pucie liberals and blacks don't have anything to say but your an idiot. Waste of fukn time bro. Not all blacks are dumb fuks we get it. BUT, a good majority of em are undisciplined, irrational thinking sub-humans. There-now that's some racists shyt and you know what-its fukn true! All you white MFers that have that black dong in your mouth, I give you this question, " If given the chance to walk down the street in a black neighborhood at night or a white neighborhood at night which would you choose?" If it is either or the black one come to Akron, Ohio for a visit and I'll test out answer. Yea your nothing but a bunch of PC pucies. You have no problem confronting a white guy with some racists rant but, let a black guy get shytty and you wouldn't say shyt if you had a mouth full. Because you are a fukn PC PUCIE ! I'm a racists MFer! Raised in the projects with them. How many of you with your pucie views have lived next to em? How many of you played football on an almost all black football team? Not many if any! Are your fukn eyes even open? Had some friends later in life that were teachers. They had your views before they had to deal with them on a personal basis. They can't fukn stand em any longer. Get out, get with em, interact with em, live around em before you give em the benefit of the doubt. Watch the fukn news! Get a fukn clue! I'm out-I'm sure I made a huge impact on the idiot PC PUCIES... I'm going to fuk my black wife.

Appreciate your opinion and view.

Still trying to simply figure out how to add a value to this type information. It can't be the definitive decision, but enough to make a somewhat impact.

[recon1]

Zinister I think anyone could have the same opinion about all colors. There some places where you wouldn't walk in a Hispanic neighborhood or a White neighborhood. If your black I dare you to go and live in a white neighborhood in Vidor, Texas or Eastville, Ark. Point I'm trying to get at is there are a bunch of dumbasses regardless if you are a craker, redneck, wetback, zipperhead, ******, etc...... That is why in prison you will find gangs of all races. If you look at the black coaches who lead top tier schools such as the stanfords, Texas a&m etc.. they have done pretty good. Shaw 42-12, Sumlin 64-28, etc.. So be my guess and bet against them.

Sumlin is the exception so far, but still too early to say he's a great coach, same with Shaw. I think Shaw slides big time and Sumlin just maintains at best.

[terrortwylight]

Why "wow" ?
Everything there is true. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, but generally speaking whites are much more intelligent. Try listening to a nba postgame, most of them cant even formulate an English sentence. I dont see why people get their panties in a bunch when the obvious is pointed out.
On the flip side, blacks are generally much better basketball players. If i see a pick up game of 5 blk vs 5 wht, knowing nothing else, i know where my money is as well.

Why does either have to offend anyone? It is what it is....

I'm not offended at all. I'm probably the last person on this forum you'd be able to successfully offend, especially talking race in America. My issue is an intellectual one. Everything there is not true.

First, the IQ test itself is standardized. There's this idea that if an individual is born here in the US and he speaks English, then he develops and lives in the same culture as everyone else. This is a very simplified way of looking at a very complex thing. Cognitive performance is never independent of culture. In recent years, we've learned definitively that linguistic structure controls the way people think and learn.

With any standardized test, there are going to be issues anyway. I know plenty of bright dudes who bombed on their ACT or SAT, did just one retake, and then got accepted at Michigan State. There is no exception with the IQ test. There is considerable evidence that there exists a cultural bias within the test itself. The notorious 15 point standard deviation between whites and blacks that was once roundly cited (and explained as independent of culture) has been substantially shrinking since the 70's.

In other words, my issue is with the assertion itself that whites are more intelligent than blacks.

The idea that an IQ test is comprehensive or accurate is laughable. Intelligence is defined as a "mental capacity that involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend ideas, and learn from experience." You can't go down to Best Buy or a hardware store and buy software that measures your ability to do any of those things. How do you even quantify those traits? Intelligence is not an object, it's a concept.

I would personally argue that the only meaningful way to measure intelligence is operational. Throw me actual statistics that say black head coaches are losing at a higher rate than white head coaches (some of you have already provided great trends for this and it's very interesting to look at). I'll happily accept those figures because you can't argue performance. However, my only counterpoint to that would be it's not like every white head coach is Bear Fukking Bryant.

Hopefully this helps some of you understand why the racist garbage means so little to me. It's not going to help me or aid me (or any of us) in any way whatsoever. I believe statistics will.

[jtoler]

I'm not offended at all. I'm probably the last person on this forum you'd be able to successfully offend, especially talking race in America. My issue is an intellectual one. Everything there is not true.

First, the IQ test itself is standardized. There's this idea that if an individual is born here in the US and he speaks English, then he develops and lives in the same culture as everyone else. This is a very simplified way of looking at a very complex thing. Cognitive performance is never independent of culture. In recent years, we've learned definitively that linguistic structure controls the way people think and learn.

With any standardized test, there are going to be issues anyway. I know plenty of bright dudes who bombed on their ACT or SAT, did just one retake, and then got accepted at Michigan State. There is no exception with the IQ test. There is considerable evidence that there exists a cultural bias within the test itself. The notorious 15 point standard deviation between whites and blacks that was once roundly cited (and explained as independent of culture) has been substantially shrinking since the 70's.

In other words, my issue is with the assertion itself that whites are more intelligent than blacks.

The idea that an IQ test is comprehensive or accurate is laughable. Intelligence is defined as a "mental capacity that involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend ideas, and learn from experience." You can't go down to Best Buy or a hardware store and buy software that measures your ability to do any of those things. How do you even quantify those traits? Intelligence is not an object, it's a concept.

I would personally argue that the only meaningful way to measure intelligence is operational. Throw me actual statistics that say black head coaches are losing at a higher rate than white head coaches (some of you have already provided great trends for this and it's very interesting to look at). I'll happily accept those figures because you can't argue performance. However, my only counterpoint to that would be it's not like every white head coach is Bear Fukking Bryant.

Hopefully this helps some of you understand why the racist garbage means so little to me. It's not going to help me or aid me (or any of us) in any way whatsoever. I believe statistics will.

Why cast pearls at swine only to see them trampled underfoot.

[terrortwylight]

Like I said earlier you can't change an idiots way of thinking. You make a valid point and proved it with some statistics and the pucie liberals and blacks don't have anything to say but your an idiot. Waste of fukn time bro. Not all blacks are dumb fuks we get it. BUT, a good majority of em are undisciplined, irrational thinking sub-humans. There-now that's some racists shyt and you know what-its fukn true! All you white MFers that have that black dong in your mouth, I give you this question, " If given the chance to walk down the street in a black neighborhood at night or a white neighborhood at night which would you choose?" If it is either or the black one come to Akron, Ohio for a visit and I'll test out answer. Yea your nothing but a bunch of PC pucies. You have no problem confronting a white guy with some racists rant but, let a black guy get shytty and you wouldn't say shyt if you had a mouth full. Because you are a fukn PC PUCIE ! I'm a racists MFer! Raised in the projects with them. How many of you with your pucie views have lived next to em? How many of you played football on an almost all black football team? Not many if any! Are your fukn eyes even open? Had some friends later in life that were teachers. They had your views before they had to deal with them on a personal basis. They can't fukn stand em any longer. Get out, get with em, interact with em, live around em before you give em the benefit of the doubt. Watch the fukn news! Get a fukn clue! I'm out-I'm sure I made a huge impact on the idiot PC PUCIES... I'm going to fuk my black wife.

I agree with you. Liberal, guilty white pussies want you to think that all black people want to be your friend and they're sweet and cuddly and we need to handle them with kid gloves because they're incapable of sticking up for themselves. Personally, I say fukc all that bullshit. Eric Holder (the old attorney general) was given racial crime statistics. They turned his hair white. He didn't want to hear them or even deal with them or even record them anymore. I have serious doubts about the authenticity of any of these reports after 2009 for that reason. I'm pretty sure they still look awful anyway.

[terrortwylight]

Why cast pearls at swine only to see them trampled underfoot.

I try to be an optimist.

[gambler705]

I'm not offended at all. I'm probably the last person on this forum you'd be able to successfully offend, especially talking race in America. My issue is an intellectual one. Everything there is not true.

First, the IQ test itself is standardized. There's this idea that if an individual is born here in the US and he speaks English, then he develops and lives in the same culture as everyone else. This is a very simplified way of looking at a very complex thing. Cognitive performance is never independent of culture. In recent years, we've learned definitively that linguistic structure controls the way people think and learn.

With any standardized test, there are going to be issues anyway. I know plenty of bright dudes who bombed on their ACT or SAT, did just one retake, and then got accepted at Michigan State. There is no exception with the IQ test. There is considerable evidence that there exists a cultural bias within the test itself. The notorious 15 point standard deviation between whites and blacks that was once roundly cited (and explained as independent of culture) has been substantially shrinking since the 70's.

In other words, my issue is with the assertion itself that whites are more intelligent than blacks.

The idea that an IQ test is comprehensive or accurate is laughable. Intelligence is defined as a "mental capacity that involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend ideas, and learn from experience." You can't go down to Best Buy or a hardware store and buy software that measures your ability to do any of those things. How do you even quantify those traits? Intelligence is not an object, it's a concept.

I would personally argue that the only meaningful way to measure intelligence is operational. Throw me actual statistics that say black head coaches are losing at a higher rate than white head coaches (some of you have already provided great trends for this and it's very interesting to look at). I'll happily accept those figures because you can't argue performance. However, my only counterpoint to that would be it's not like every white head coach is Bear Fukking Bryant.

Hopefully this helps some of you understand why the racist garbage means so little to me. It's not going to help me or aid me (or any of us) in any way whatsoever. I believe statistics will.

Very valid points. I dont think an SAT is the best measure of intelligence either for what it's worth. And absolutely culture and upbringing play a large role. But the end result is the same, regardless of the variables that contribute to the final outcome. No different using the basketball example.. Are blacks really "better" or is it the culture that has them eschewing all else to play throoughout childhood the deciding factor in that they have more time / experience invested? Either way, they are "better"

[terrortwylight]

Very valid points. I dont think an SAT is the best measure of intelligence either for what it's worth. And absolutely culture and upbringing play a large role. But the end result is the same, regardless of the variables that contribute to the final outcome. No different using the basketball example.. Are blacks really "better" or is it the culture that has them eschewing all else to play throoughout childhood the deciding factor in that they have more time / experience invested? Either way, they are "better"

I'm the last guy on earth who is going to get all pissy and offended when people talk race. I am glad that you made your initial statement in the first place because at least we're talking about it. That's at least a start. I appreciate all points on view on it, I just try to make sure that everybody else does the same.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Hey Zinister - how much money did you lose betting on USC tonight??

[RavensFan2k3]

What the penetrate is the point of this thread?