SBR if sportsbooks holding customers BTC steal some of that value? downgrade???

[trytrytry]

SBR if sportsbooks holding customers BTC steal some of that value? Will you acccept complaint forms and get resolutions and if none eventually downgrade.

discuss

if any books steals a portion of deposited funds from a cusotmer thats an automatic customer complaint form and if SBr cant get books to fix the stolen funds its an eventual downgrade and then if its numerous customers blacklist time. SO......

so on "BlockTuesday" (my trademark but go ahead and use #blockTuesday ) when there is value after the coins split (that the customers actually own and have deposited in the book) and if a sportsbook does not share it or attempt to settle in a reasonable way that value to the cusotmer will you accept complaints and eventually downgrade?

just wondering. Never has Aug 1st been such a thrilling day for everyone.

sure you could always at any book pull out your funds totally and then by definition never get stolen from. But customer might choose to keep funds in a book. In the case you have BTC funds and they choose steal value from your coins after a split what will SBR do as a watchdog ratings site.


just an interesting discussion thats all.

hope its good for most everyone.

[Optional]

My thoughts are that deposited funds are owned/controlled by the book and they wont see it as owing you anything.

What if the book uses a wallet that doesnt support BCC and has no interest in quickly trying to change their systems so they never see it anyway?

What portion is yours to claim BCC tokens against? The deposit amount? The available balance? What if you have pending bets?

The easy solution with the bitcoin books is to simply take out your bitcoin before Aug 1 and if you chose not to, dont complain about what happens later.

[trytrytry]

I agree that in all potential sportsbook disputes you would have no dispute if you were not funded there. lets just agree that is always the best way to avoid any dispute..yes thats a best practice..

[Semper Fidelis]

Hey there trytrytry, I'm assuming you're referring to bitcoin-only books? Because all the major well-respected books like 5dimes, heritage, bookmaker, etc. (which aren't bitcoin-only) automatically convert your bitcoin deposits to US dollar equivalent based on the actual price of BTC at time they receive transaction. So essentially once they process the BTC transaction the currency conversion to US dollars is already done and you no longer have BTC anymore until you request a BTC payout later, which is when they convert your US dollars back to BTC based on the equivalent price of BTC at that time. But the best part about everything is that the book doesn't require your payouts to be in BTC just bc your deposit was - they still offer regular (albeit much much slower and significantly reduced amount limits) payout transactions such as paper check and CC or wire, etc.

So basically if you use one of those books where they automatically convert your BTC deposit you remove yourself from the BTC picture until/unless you decide to go back if that's the payment method you prefer for your payouts. The simple solution is to just hold out making any new BTC deposits until we see what happens on Aug 1st, and hold off on making any withdrawals (unless you choose an alternate method to BTC). Your money is safe in any book that has already converted to US dollars.

If you are indeed using one of the bitcoin-exclusive books the only thing I could suggest is either withdrawing everything before Aug 1st or possibly transfer to one of the aforementioned books if they allow it! Certainly not the safest thing to just keep in the book and wait it out - as far as I know no book has yet to commit a 1-for-1 split of BTC to BCC (bitcoin cash) like some of the exchanges are announcing! Either way good luck with whatever you decide to do and please keep us posted on any experiences so we can all continue to try and help each other navigate through this wind unknown cryptosphere universe!

[MeanPeopleSuck]

My thoughts are that deposited funds are owned/controlled by the book and they wont see it as owing you anything.

What if the book uses a wallet that doesnt support BCC and has no interest in quickly trying to change their systems so they never see it anyway?

What portion is yours to claim BCC tokens against? The deposit amount? The available balance? What if you have pending bets?

The easy solution with the bitcoin books is to simply take out your bitcoin before Aug 1 and if you chose not to, dont complain about what happens later.

I respectfully disagree with Optional on this one. To me, what's happening on Tuesday is exactly like if a stock you've deposited to a broker declares a dividend. Who should get the dividend, you or Etrade? My opinion is you.

And Optional, there's one aspect here that the players can't control: pending futures bets. Across all BTC only sportsbooks I've got about 2.2 BTC pending on futures bets, mostly NFL and 'Trump to still be President on X date' bets. Obviously, I can't withdraw those by Tuesday, so I'm going to get hosed for what's currently being priced at about $900.

Naturally, I'm not happy about it.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

SBR if sportsbooks holding customers BTC steal some of that value? Will you acccept complaint forms and get resolutions and if none eventually downgrade.

discuss

if any books steals a portion of deposited funds from a cusotmer thats an automatic customer complaint form and if SBr cant get books to fix the stolen funds its an eventual downgrade and then if its numerous customers blacklist time. SO......

so on "BlockTuesday" (my trademark but go ahead and use #blockTuesday ) when there is value after the coins split (that the customers actually own and have deposited in the book) and if a sportsbook does not share it or attempt to settle in a reasonable way that value to the cusotmer will you accept complaints and eventually downgrade?

just wondering. Never has Aug 1st been such a thrilling day for everyone.

sure you could always at any book pull out your funds totally and then by definition never get stolen from. But customer might choose to keep funds in a book. In the case you have BTC funds and they choose steal value from your coins after a split what will SBR do as a watchdog ratings site.


just an interesting discussion thats all.

hope its good for most everyone.

Howdy, trytrytry!

I'm not sure we've been formally introduced yet, but I really like your posts.

Without going into the "hows" of how I know this, let's just say a little birdie told me that Nitro is:

1. Definitely keeping everyone's BCC, and

2. Is not going to post any kind of warning to that effect before Tuesday.

I don't know how many BTC Nitro has on deposit, but my guess is the range must be somewhere between 1,000 and 10,000 BTC, so it's easy to see the temptation.

If the futures markets are right and BCC's value turns out to be roughly $400, then somewhere between $400,000 and $4,000,000 will be handed straight to Nitro's ownership group.

If you were handed $4 million, with no legal obligation to give it to anyone else, what would you do with it? (Heh, I'd still like to believe I'd do the right thing, but I can at least sympathize with the temptation to just stick the wad in your pocket and walk away whistling).

[Optional]

I respectfully disagree with Optional on this one. To me, what's happening on Tuesday is exactly like if a stock you've deposited to a broker declares a dividend. Who should get the dividend, you or Etrade? My opinion is you.

And Optional, there's one aspect here that the players can't control: pending futures bets. Across all BTC only sportsbooks I've got about 2.2 BTC pending on futures bets, mostly NFL and 'Trump to still be President on X date' bets. Obviously, I can't withdraw those by Tuesday, so I'm going to get hosed for what's currently being priced at about $900.

Naturally, I'm not happy about it.

I am not trying to be negative. But that's just how I believe the books will treat it and don't think there is a clear enough argument either way for SBR to get involved.

I especially don't think you have a claim for funds spent on pending bets. You are asking for your cake and to eat it too. you've spent those funds. Once you bet the book may lay off or act on that bet to move odds. The deal has been made. They are not holding money for you, they have taken a bet from you in exchange for that money.

Also, try to go back to my other questions... what amount do you think you have a claim over? The deposit amount? The balance?

What if the book converts a proportion to Fiat to hedge its position on currency.. do they have to suddenly go buy some other alt token to payout the 'free coins' you think they should owe you?

I don't think you have thought this through fully.

And considering not one bitcoin book has said they will do what you guys want, I don't think there is a lot of use holding out hoping they will. Just move your bitcoin for the day.

[RonPaul2008]

I can confirm that Nitro doesn't intend to give depositors the BCC. They told me as much in response to a ticket yesterday.

Howdy, trytrytry!

I'm not sure we've been formally introduced yet, but I really like your posts.

Without going into the "hows" of how I know this, let's just say a little birdie told me that Nitro is:

1. Definitely keeping everyone's BCC, and

2. Is not going to post any kind of warning to that effect before Tuesday.

I don't know how many BTC Nitro has on deposit, but my guess is the range must be somewhere between 1,000 and 10,000 BTC, so it's easy to see the temptation.

If the futures markets are right and BCC's value turns out to be roughly $400, then somewhere between $400,000 and $4,000,000 will be handed straight to Nitro's ownership group.

If you were handed $4 million, with no legal obligation to give it to anyone else, what would you do with it? (Heh, I'd still like to believe I'd do the right thing, but I can at least sympathize with the temptation to just stick the wad in your pocket and walk away whistling).

[Optional]

I can confirm that Nitro doesn't intend to give depositors the BCC. They told me as much in response to a ticket yesterday.

They also say this "After August 1st, Nitrogen Sports will assess the events on the BTC network split and will implement a process to ensure that players have the ability to withdraw in alternate versions of BTC, as they wish (eg. BCC)." here

[RonPaul2008]

Optional, they have since edited that blog post and it now read this:

https://nitrogensports.eu/blog/note-to-our-players-concerning-the-bitcoin-network/

We’re sure many of you are aware of the recent conversation in the Bitcoin community regarding improvement protocols and finding a technical solution to network congestion.
Technical changes on this scale do add the risk of temporary instability to the network, and Nitrogen Sports needs to take this into account as we look to protect our players during this period.
(Update: Jul. 27) – Ahead of the August 1st split event, Nitrogen is proactively taking the following temporary measures to protect its players:
Jul. 30 @ 08:00 EST – All withdrawals will be stopped. Any withdrawals made before the cutoff time will be processed normally.
Aug. 1 @ 04:00 EST – All deposits will be stopped. Any deposits made before the cutoff time will clear after 1 or more confirmation.
Aug. 1 @ 06:00 EST – 3 Card Poker, Baccarat, and Poker will be unavailable to all players for a short time.
Aug. 1 @ 12:00 EST – Assuming network stability, deposits will be reactivated.
Aug. 1 @ 17:00 EST – Assuming network stability, withdrawals will be reactivated.
Once again, the primary purpose of enacting this chain of events is to protect our players’ balances. Nitrogen holds no stake in the outcome of any possible BTC split, and we will judge said outcome at our sole discretion to ensure the ultimate security of our network.
Thank you for your patience and understanding.
Nitrogen Sports
For further reading, please refer to the links below:
What is a confirmation?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Confirmation

What is BCC?

https://www.coindesk.com/coindesk-explainer-bitcoin-cash-forking-blockchain/

What is Segwit?

https://cointelegraph.com/explained/segwit-explained

In addition, this was their response to my inquiry:

In regards to your recent inquiry. Allow us to explain we will not split balances in our customers account, however, we will be inform you and all users from Nitrogen Sports any incoming updates regarding this matter. There is nothing to worry about.

[Optional]

In addition, this was their response to my inquiry:

In regards to your recent inquiry. Allow us to explain we will not split balances in our customers account, however, we will be inform you and all users from Nitrogen Sports any incoming updates regarding this matter. There is nothing to worry about.

Thanks for pointing that change out.

What they have said to you actually leaves me thinking they might just do something after the dust settles and they know the exact position.

[trytrytry]

fairlay announce this, i guess fair is the key word here.



We will distribute the Bitcoin Cash we receive to our clients according to their balances.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=673475

[Optional]

fairlay announce this, i guess fair is the key word here.



We will distribute the Bitcoin Cash we receive to our clients according to their balances.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=673475

That's good news but remember Fairlay are in a unique position in that they are not holding risk on bets. The exact amount of money to cover both sides of every bet is physically held. It's a lot simpler to account for than at a regular book.

[trytrytry]

That's good news but remember Fairlay are in a unique position in that they are not holding risk on bets. The exact amount of money to cover both sides of every bet is physically held. It's a lot simpler to account for than at a regular book.

good point and good discussion

I would think they could still steal those coins from players, just put some silly notice out past week like others that they will not support new coins, move your coins out if you desire too, that play.

I think an upgrade half a grade and a positive comment for those Bitcoin books that do give the customer the value, however defined, would be near automatic for SBr right? As it looks a downgrade for those that do not share the Fork profits on coins sent or held or earned seems unlikely.

well lots of us learning more and more in all of this too. youre doing a great job communicating and posting on the topic.

[Optional]

good point and good discussion

I would think they could still steal those coins from players, just put some silly notice out past week like others that they will not support new coins, move your coins out if you desire too, that play.

I think an upgrade half a grade and a positive comment for those Bitcoin books that do give the customer the value, however defined, would be near automatic for SBr right? As it looks a downgrade for those that do not share the Fork profits on coins sent or held or earned seems unlikely.

well lots of us learning more and more in all of this too. youre doing a great job communicating and posting on the topic.

I get the feeling the level of community pressure might see most of these better known bitcoin books to do 'something' for account holders eventually. Especially with at least one 'book' saying they will now.

The rating upgrade thing sounds like a good idea. Or at least some positive PR via a news release pointing out who did and did not award BCC.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

I am not trying to be negative. But that's just how I believe the books will treat it and don't think there is a clear enough argument either way for SBR to get involved.

I especially don't think you have a claim for funds spent on pending bets. You are asking for your cake and to eat it too. you've spent those funds. Once you bet the book may lay off or act on that bet to move odds. The deal has been made. They are not holding money for you, they have taken a bet from you in exchange for that money.

Also, try to go back to my other questions... what amount do you think you have a claim over? The deposit amount? The balance?

What if the book converts a proportion to Fiat to hedge its position on currency.. do they have to suddenly go buy some other alt token to payout the 'free coins' you think they should owe you?

I don't think you have thought this through fully.

And considering not one bitcoin book has said they will do what you guys want, I don't think there is a lot of use holding out hoping they will. Just move your bitcoin for the day.

The sportsbooks are definitely going to keep the players' BCC, but that just means it's the greedy decision, not the right decision. The responsible books like Onehash have at least sent out emails talking about BCC and explaining to its players they need to withdraw their BTC or lose their BCC. Less responsible books like Nitro aren't saying anything publicly about BCC but entirely plan to its players' BCC. In fact, mentioning BCC in its chat room before their insanely early cutoff time for making withdrawals, 8am EST on the 30th, got me banned for 12 hours.

Now, I am definitely sympathetic to your "withdraw it all" plan -- in fact, I opened my BCC thread with exactly that advice, and in a much stronger tone than I've ever heard you use -- but that solution isn't perfect. For example, it doesn't help players with pending futures bets which can't, of course, be withdrawn. So let me propose you a hypothetical:

1. You analyze each NFL team and decide that the Patriots are unbeatable. So tomorrow you place a $1 million bet on the Pats to win the Super Bowl at 5-1.

2. In October, North Korea perfects forging US currency and floods the market with fake dollars.

3. In response, the US Treasury issues "Dollars Prime," a refashioned and reprinted dollar bill that can't be forged by North Korea. All dollars much be exchanged for Dollars Prime by the end of the year. Following December 31st all old dollars shall have no value.

4. In February, the Pats end a 19-0 season by winning the Super Bowl 50-0 over the Packers.

5. The next day your account is credited 6 million worthless old dollars. So your net for winning your $1 million to win $5 million dollar bet is minus $1 million dollars.

Would you consider that a fair outcome or would you feel the sportsbook had done you wrong?

[MeanPeopleSuck]

fairlay announce this, i guess fair is the key word here.



We will distribute the Bitcoin Cash we receive to our clients according to their balances.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=673475

Hey, Triple T,

I couldn't quite find it on that link, but is Fairlay saying it WILL pass the players' deposited BCC onto them?

If yes, that's a huge breath of fresh air.

[trytrytry]

Hey, Triple T,

I couldn't quite find it on that link, but is Fairlay saying it WILL pass the players' deposited BCC onto them?

If yes, that's a huge breath of fresh air.

not exactly 1 : 1 is promissed all they say is this


We will distribute the Bitcoin Cash we receive to our clients according to their balances. It looks like withdrawals will remain open and instant till Monday.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

not exactly 1 : 1 is promissed all they say is this

We will distribute the Bitcoin Cash we receive to our clients according to their balances. It looks like withdrawals will remain open and instant till Monday.

That sounds exceptional encouraging. I also read the same news from board poster Little Kova, and (s)he's quite bright and on top of all things Fairlay.

So now the question to the rest of the BTC-only books is, "Fairlay's doing the right thing in passing along its clients' BCC, so why aren't you?" The unfortunate answer is, "because it makes us richer not to," although to Onehash's credit they sent out an email explaining the BCC situation in depth and explaining that players needed to withdraw before tomorrow or risk losing their BCC.

Nitro took the exact opposite approach, banning me from their chat room for 12 hours for educating a couple folks on what BCC was and what was about to happen to theirs if they left it at Nitro. Their BS reason given for my banning: Mentioning the competition (I didn't).