Betfair $3.1 million slow-pay and other pro player issues (Video)

[in play, run(s)]

Betfair, bunch of crooks!

[dijamantu]

Today I had a conversation with Kacharava mobster (and also betfair PSP and betfair poker-live organizer in the near past) and he offered me 400000 USD for writing to betfair that everything is all right. Just 400000 instead of almost 3.1 mln they still have to pay! Even if I was a poverty-stricken guy I wouldn't agree to such "terms" I have some dignity. Btw, pity I couldn't record this cause the conversation took place on their conditions, I met with their secretary, she gave me a cell phone and then Kacharava made a call to this cell-phone.

This suggests Betfair could be working behind the scenes and are on the PSP's back. I believe you anty and i hope you get your money. I would ask you to publish the name of this PSP and the people involved, but i think it is too early for that, it could also jeporadise your safety. Good luck and keep fighting.

[yokspot]

I would ask you to publish the name of this PSP and the people involved, but i think it is too early for that, it could also jeporadise your safety.

He did that earlier in the thread; a Russian called Irakli Kacharava is the fella with a rather large wad of stolen cash in his back pocket.

[dijamantu]

What's the name of the PSP?

[yokspot]

We never got the name of the PSP, but I doubt it's anything noteworthy if it has a name at all.

[dijamantu]

We need to keep this thread up near the top.

Do you know which part of Russia Mr. Kacharava is based?

[yokspot]

The YouTube videos were deleted after I wrote my article (coincidence or not), but there's one here, in Russian.

http://www.pokertube.com/ChannelFilms.aspx?movie=13161&freetext=interview+with

I'll keep a copy.

[BAUS]

How has betfair not been downgraded yet?

BAUS

[yokspot]

How has betfair not been downgraded yet?

BAUS

Shari made some fair points when I had a whinge about this. Here's what I think.

Betfair is about the best gambling op out there in terms of odds to the player. You can't not tell players about Betfair. If they can get +200 elsewhere but +220 at Betfair, if they can get 3:2 on blackjacks elsewhere but 2:1 at Betfair (in certain instances), then to withhold this useful information from punters is totally counter-productive. They need to know. There are some affiliates out there who will proclaim their vast integrity in delisting Betfair, whilst quite happily continuing to list some of the worst toilets out there. Spare me the fake moral posing.

But you cannot act like this shit doesn't happen. Betfair grabbed back a fortune over the Happy Hour where customers had committed no offence beyond being excessively greedy, something I've fallen prey to a few times. They have in effect stolen a cool $3,000,000 from the punter in this thread.

Betfair is a mega-odds shop, run by fuckedup fuckwits who border on criminality. That is what you should bear in mind when contemplating Betfair.

Maybe Justin can mention something like this in any new video about the situation here that I assume we all hope is coming (**nudge, nudge, Justin**).

[Santo]

Who has stolen it is a point of some contention, no? It sounds like Betfair corporate HAVE paid it. The PSP has stolen it.

[durito]

Who has stolen it is a point of some contention, no? It sounds like Betfair corporate HAVE paid it. The PSP has stolen it.

Forgive me for not following this, but is the PSP a e-wallet like netteler or MB? Or is it a processor just contracted by betfair to pay the player. The industry standard views these differently. No one has ever asked books to refund players when e-wallets have stolen their money (GP or use my wallet, or when neteller held funds hostage for half a year). But when players request direct payment like checks, wires, etc and the processor runs off with the money the book is expected to pay.

[BAUS]

Who has stolen it is a point of some contention, no? It sounds like Betfair corporate HAVE paid it. The PSP has stolen it.

Betfair still needs to pay the man.

BAUS

[BAUS]

Forgive me for not following this, but is the PSP a e-wallet like netteler or MB? Or is it a processor just contracted by betfair to pay the player. The industry standard views these differently. No one has ever asked books to refund players when e-wallets have stolen their money (GP or use my wallet, or when neteller held funds hostage for half a year). But when players request direct payment like checks, wires, etc and the processor runs off with the money the book is expected to pay.

It's not Neteller or Moneybookers. It seems to be some other mysterious outfit contracted by (or perhaps closely tied to) Betfair.

BAUS

[durito]

Then it should be BetFairs responsibility.

[Santo]

It's not a processor of any type -- it's an agent-type arrangement so far as I understood.

I don't think Betfair would be legally liable, though that's yet to be explored. They may well have moral responsibility in so far as they recommended this arrangement to the player.

[Donadon]

Betfair have the moral liability to make sure the player gets his own money. They recomended all this payment procedures in the first instance. This case only confirmed to me what I already knew - that Betfair`s morale is SUBZERO.

[FourLengthsClear]

Then it should be BetFairs responsibility.

There is a problem with that too though. The player previously had a direct account with Betfair and switched to this Master Account arrangement with the PSP.

He said that he was advised (but not compelled) to do this by Betfair due to previous issues in easily getting his money. Betfair has paid the PSP in full as instructed by the player.

It's a murky affair and I have no idea how it would play out in a court.

[durito]

I don´t know then. I recently requested payment at a book via one method, they recommended instead to use MB. If MB stiffs me after the fact the book is probably not gonna pay me.

[yokspot]

Who has stolen it is a point of some contention, no? It sounds like Betfair corporate HAVE paid it. The PSP has stolen it.

When you cash out, you're paid. If you're not paid, the book needs to pay you.

I don't think we need to start offering additional outs just because it's Betfair.

[Santo]

As said above, there's numerous cases where a processor has gone bankrupt -- in those cases the book didn't recompense. Now admittedly this appears to be fraud not bankruptcy, but I don't think it is as clear cut as you make out.

[Hareeba!]

I remain to be convinced that Betfair recommended this outfit.

It seems totally out of the norm for them to do that and I've never heard of anyone else claiming to have been recommended to use other than the common methods of funds transfer.

[yokspot]

Now admittedly this appears to be fraud not bankruptcy, but I don't think it is as clear cut as you make out.

What's not clear?

[Toit]

I think it's something to do with taxes being more profitable in another country, a player being ****** over because of it and a dodgy in between person.

Betfair is still fine for me, but I'm not a highroller like the person that started this topic.

[Santo]

What's not clear?

That betfair owe if the processor/agent refuses to pay. If Betfair paid out $100k to Moneybookers, and before you could get it to your bank MB went rogue or bust, would you be pursuing Betfair or MB for the money? I think MB.

[gregm]

Any updates on this? This is pretty fascinating reading. I am shocked how calm Anty is in all this, you get so used to people having hissy fits or breakdowns on here over such small sums from books compared to this or even sbrpoints which are like dave and buster pizza points, or adventure landing/ chuckie cheese tokens. This is over 3.1 million dollars!

Anty you are one hell of a man for staying calm though all this, people throw the term pro around, but this is an amazing sum of money. This is real gambling. I really hope you get your money, any news? Also for gods sakes, please start posting some plays. LOL.

http://www.pokertube.com/ChannelFilms.aspx?movie=13161&freetext=interview+with

So this guy in the interview with the sexy russian snow bunny is the one in charge of the payment service provider who is holding this up? I really hope you keep everyone informed here of what is happening.

[yokspot]

That's the one, yes.

They pulled a couple of other videos of him. Not sure why that one got left up.

[pjesnik24]

That betfair owe if the processor/agent refuses to pay. If Betfair paid out $100k to Moneybookers, and before you could get it to your bank MB went rogue or bust, would you be pursuing Betfair or MB for the money? I think MB.

If I was using neteller and betfair said to me that I should switch to moneybookers and I will get my money ASAP and after I ask for my money through moneybookers they go rogue, I would blame betfair.

[Hareeba!]

If I was using neteller and betfair said to me that I should switch to moneybookers and I will get my money ASAP and after I ask for my money through moneybookers they go rogue, I would blame betfair.

You may have a valid case IF Betfair were ever to do anything like that.

But other than Anty has ANYONE ever had them make anything like such a recommendation?

[pjesnik24]

other than Anty has ANYONE here ever had more than 3 millions on Betfair?

[FourLengthsClear]

other than Anty has ANYONE here ever had more than 3 millions on Betfair?

Many traders do but I would imagine nearly all of them reside in jurisdictions where money transfers are a lot easier.

[pjesnik24]

Many traders do but I would imagine nearly all of them reside in jurisdictions where money transfers are a lot easier.

that may be the reason why they recommended him "other" option for withdrawal. Since this thread started long time ago I was asking myself following, has betfair distanced themselves from this PSP and Irakli Kacharava or is it business as usual?

[FourLengthsClear]

that may be the reason why they recommended him "other" option for withdrawal. Since this thread started long time ago I was asking myself following, has betfair distanced themselves from this PSP and Irakli Kacharava or is it business as usual?

The relationship was terminated.

The part of this where Anty switched from his direct account to the master account situation is still somewhat baffling. If I remember rightly, Anty isn't even Russian.

edit. After reading again, I see that he is Russian but did his banking in Latvia.

[Hareeba!]

other than Anty has ANYONE here ever had more than 3 millions on Betfair?

Not sure of the relevance of that but as I understand it he built his balance that high AFTER he moved from an ordinary account to the "master" account

There is a big difference between offering a range of options and making an outright recommendation.

[gregm]

Some interesting articles on calvin ayre about Betfairs move to Gibraltar and the anger from the horse racing industry in Britain http://calvinayre.com/2012/02/01/bus...gnize-reality/

Repairing betfair http://calvinayre.com/2011/12/19/bus...epair-betfair/

Some of betfairs problems with going public http://calvinayre.com/2011/10/26/bus...tock-exchange/

Betfairs stock price has improved, they did show strong first half earnings last year and they are now sponsoring a Cyprus football team, but it seems like the companies move to Gibraltar has got the horse racing industry in the UK in an uproar. Horse racing really seems to be a very small piece of the pie for Betfair now though.

[yokspot]

Since this thread started long time ago I was asking myself following, has betfair distanced themselves from this PSP and Irakli Kacharava or is it business as usual?

The relationship was terminated.

You know this how?