BetOnline is trying to steal $65,000 from me (cliff notes at end)

[grind4moneyz]

1) I have the bankroll to play all the stakes I was playing on there. I wanted to deposit more but the maximum deposit I could make through the method I wanted was $1200. If I lost the $1200 I was just going to deposit again, I was not taking a shot or risking some big part of my bankroll by playing $1000nl.

2) Of course I had swings ...

3) If you "know" anything about poker then you should understand that $65,000 is a lot of $ but only about 32 buyins at 2000nl, 16 buyins at 4000nl, and 10 buyins at 6000nl. Considering I was playing those stakes regurarly and the games were very soft and I was running well, it is not that unusual at all.

Greg-No need to defend how much you deposited to how much you won, IMO.

I may have less than 10 Buy-ins on a site since Black Friday since I play multiple Networks That doesn't mean it's anywhere NEAR my BR. I keep the majority of my BR off the sites to avoid another Full Tilt type of disaster. It's much better to redeposit if need be then to risk a significant amount of money or BR online right now, especially with the sites we have to choose from currently.

If anything any smart Reg would know NOT to keep his full BR online at mid/high stakes. In fact he would keep the minimum possible and just choose to reload from his real BR, if he went busto.

Are u listening to this guy hear he is basically saying he played poker on this site for a month start up with $1500 or so, sit down with most of his stack, start playing at these levels basically never go on bad runs(online poker) and wakes up with $65k in a month. First off this guy is saying he is a regular right, well then why play with his whole stack right from the start? any regular i know knows the swings of poker and especially the swings of internet poker. Im not saying i don't believe this guy but i do play alot of poker also and im steady, i know i could not do that without hitting the swings, its just to hard and this guy has to know that. If this guy really did it good for him and please give me some lessons as to why i cannot achieve this level of online poker. This chip dumping has happened a few times already at Betonline and every case has been dealt with right in the end even if they really were chip dumping, the money went back to the right places.

You mean the Chip Dumps that were actually reported to SBR, not all the chip dumps

[Legions36]

Greg-No need to defend how much you deposited to how much you won, IMO.

I may have less than 10 Buy-ins on a site since Black Friday since I play multiple Networks That doesn't mean it's anywhere NEAR my BR. I keep the majority of my BR off the sites to avoid another Full Tilt type of disaster. It's much better to redeposit if need be then to risk a significant amount of money or BR online right now, especially with the sites we have to choose from currently.

If anything any smart Reg would know NOT to keep his full BR online at mid/high stakes. In fact he would keep the minimum possible and just choose to reload from his real BR, if he went busto.




You mean the Chip Dumps that were actually reported to SBR, not all the chip dumps

Yes reported to SBR and so far from the threads that i have read on SBR about similar cases like this, probably about 5 different ones and they all turned out to be some kind of scam, and yes they did return all the money to the right places. But maybe this case is different, as i want no person or scammer to lose their money. Also like i said before OP if your proven to be in the right i would like u to coach me.

[erickvivar]

LOL, i love the email. Sir, I'm sorry, your complain for 65k dollars is not as important as these other ones for $10 or $20, please wait in line.

The worst thing is that is CERTAIN that his complain has the BOL Poker Manager and all the guys around him spinning in circles trying to find something they can use to avoid the payment.

[Greg242]

Wanted to update someone appeared in my 2+2 thread early this morning claiming to be a BetOnline poker rep. I again requested on the thread to have all of my hand histories be released of all the hands I ever played on the site. It was his first post on the 2+2 and he has now been banned by the moderators so I am guessing that he was not legitimate unfortunately.

Also, still have not recieved any hand histories from BetOnline still. I have requested them multiple times and first requested them on November 11th when they suspended my account.

[mighty maron]

Wanted to update someone appeared in my 2+2 thread early this morning claiming to be a BetOnline poker rep. I again requested on the thread to have all of my hand histories be released of all the hands I ever played on the site. It was his first post on the 2+2 and he has now been banned by the moderators so I am guessing that he was not legitimate unfortunately.

Also, still have not recieved any hand histories from BetOnline still. I have requested them multiple times and first requested them on November 11th when they suspended my account.

This is worrisome activity from any poker room or book that has a poker room. A players hand history and the ability to request it is part of the service that is derived from the rake generated or the tournament fees paid. In this information age, their is no reason why the room can not gather the hand histories and either 1. email them or 2. assemble them in one file and post on a file sharing service with a password that the op and the company has so the op can download it. Hiding of information that is not of a proprietary nature is worrisome. He was in every hand..he should be able to request and get every real money hand in this case.

I hope that op will be more prudent in the future. If the software has the feature of saving the hand history to his computer he should have done it. Especially considering it was for mid-stakes cash, your hand history has a gold mine of info you can self learn from and in this case help shield you from this action from the poker room.

I say this:

If the poker room/network does not hand over every hand in this case to OP and a third party like SBR to review then the room/book should be considered rouge Not just the hands in which the book is trying to make a case for chip dumping but every hand of player in real money ring games on the site.

[Greg242]

This is worrisome activity from any poker room or book that has a poker room. A players hand history and the ability to request it is part of the service that is derived from the rake generated or the tournament fees paid. In this information age, their is no reason why the room can not gather the hand histories and either 1. email them or 2. assemble them in one file and post on a file sharing service with a password that the op and the company has so the op can download it. Hiding of information that is not of a proprietary nature is worrisome. He was in every hand..he should be able to request and get every real money hand in this case.

I hope that op will be more prudent in the future. If the software has the feature of saving the hand history to his computer he should have done it. Especially considering it was for mid-stakes cash, your hand history has a gold mine of info you can self learn from and in this case help shield you from this action from the poker room.

I say this:

If the poker room/network does not hand over every hand in this case to OP and a third party like SBR to review then the room/book should be considered rouge Not just the hands in which the book is trying to make a case for chip dumping but every hand of player in real money ring games on the site.

1) I have been emailing them about getting all the hand histories of the hands I was involved in ever since November 11th. I have refrained from going overboard (such as calling every hour or emailing they ever hour demanding for the hand histories) while SBR is investigating the case to give SBR breathing room and to not interfer with their investigation.

2) Do you think there is any possible way the hand histories are saved or accessible somewhere in my own computer? I will admit I am not the best with technology and computer knowledge so I have no idea about this. You are completly right I should have been saving all these hand histories directly to my computer however you do that, and that is my fault not for doing so. I am regretting that more and more as they continue to not send me the hand histories over and over again. Such a frustrating situation and I am trying to remain as calm as possible.

[mighty maron]

I looked on pokerscout. http://pokerscout.com/SiteDetail.asp...n&ab=611708182

At the bottom of the page it lists the sites in this network. Betonline.com is listed as being on this network. Pokerscout.com lists this network as not accepting USA players. I downloaded the GUI from actionpoker.com. I could not make an account because I am from the USA.

If pokerscout is correct about the sites being on the network (BOL) and that the network can not accept USA players...How can BOL use this network and pay american players? For example on the cake network...the network can accept USA players on some skins and pokerscout lists cake as a network that accepts USA players.

[mighty maron]

1) I have been emailing them about getting all the hand histories of the hands I was involved in ever since November 11th. I have refrained from going overboard (such as calling every hour or emailing they ever hour demanding for the hand histories) while SBR is investigating the case to give SBR breathing room and to not interfer with their investigation.

2) Do you think there is any possible way the hand histories are saved or accessible somewhere in my own computer? I will admit I am not the best with technology and computer knowledge so I have no idea about this. You are completly right I should have been saving all these hand histories directly to my computer however you do that, and that is my fault not for doing so. I am regretting that more and more as they continue to not send me the hand histories over and over again. Such a frustrating situation and I am trying to remain as calm as possible.

There is a setting in options to save HH to computer. Actionpoker does not have it checked on...its default appears to be that no HH are saved to computer

[Greg242]

There is a setting in options to save HH to computer. Actionpoker does not have it checked on...its default appears to be that no HH are saved to computer

Thanks for the info. Was hoping I would get lucky somehow and I would have them somewhere .

[boneheaded1]

Thread bookmarked.

[Greg242]

Forgot to mention earlier Lou emailed me this morning saying they expect the management's audit to be done today. Thank you for the update Lou!

[BET THE HOOK]

I think its BS that the book didnt immediately show you the hand history when requested. I can promise you today that I will NEVER spend another dime at BetOnline no matter what they offer me.

[Greg242]

I think its BS that the book didnt immediately show you the hand history when requested. I can promise you today that I will NEVER spend another dime at BetOnline no matter what they offer me.

I have been requesting the hand histories ever since they suspended my account on November 11th. Today is the 18th and I still have not recieved any hand histories even after 2 times they promised to send them within 24 hours.

[brankica023]

Hy Greg i dont know if you know about page pokertableratings.com or some similar page like it because such pages save all hand histories from some poker sites,i dont know if this page have but you can probably find one that maybe have saved hands from BOL and just sighn in and download all your hand histories without problem.
I dont know if this ll help but give it a try.

[YALILI]

Hy Greg i dont know if you know about page pokertableratings.com or some similar page like it because such pages save all hand histories from some poker sites,i dont know if this page have but you can probably find one that maybe have saved hands from BOL and just sighn in and download all your hand histories without problem.
I dont know if this ll help but give it a try.

Pokertableratings is not associated with BetOnline, and PTR misses hand tracking from time to time.

[HedgeHog]

Don't mind Legions36 he's a shill/idiot.

No he's not. He plays at a lot of Books and posts honestly on how he's treated at each. I respect his opinion even when it conflicts with mine. My experience on my first BOL payout has been poor, but I do expect to be paid eventually. Hoping the same for the OP if the facts pan out.

[mighty maron]

Forgot to mention earlier Lou emailed me this morning saying they expect the management's audit to be done today. Thank you for the update Lou!

What is the results of the audit?

Did BOL ever turn over the HH?

[Legions36]

U guys should take the other thread and put them together i believe its the same case going on with the other scammer as well. I love how people really think Betonline is a scam the minute someone cries wolf. Once again i have been paid multiple times from this book and i am glad to have them as an out.

[mighty maron]

U guys should take the other thread and put them together i believe its the same case going on with the other scammer as well. I love how people really think Betonline is a scam the minute someone cries wolf. Once again i have been paid multiple times from this book and i am glad to have them as an out.

Different complaint so different thread.


Heres two points I can not understand.

1. Why making a complete HH available to OP and SBR is so dam difficult?
2. It looks like BOL plays/shares real cash players on the Action Network. Action network does not allow USA players. How is this so? http://pokerscout.com/SiteDetail.asp...n&ab=613412105

[Greg242]

What is the results of the audit?

Did BOL ever turn over the HH?

Still have not recieved any hand histories, just absolutely appalling.

Have not heard back from SBR yet, am still waiting to hear what happened with my audit ...

[mighty maron]

I find it interesting that BOL poker system and analysis team is so super sharp so fast as to confiscate high amounts like this and the other case involving 10k or so. BoDog who has had poker for so many years does not have any (that I know of) SBR complaints about rolls being seized.

So sharp yet cant figure a way to get the man his HH's because they are too massive.

[Greg242]

Just realized that one thing I never put in my threads/OP was that this was my second deposit on BetOnline. A few weeks prior to the second one I made the same $1200 deposit and jumped into the 1000nl games right away and lost it. I decided to deposit again the second time and that is when I ran up a bankroll on the site. I really do not think it is even relevant, but again I am trying to put every single piece of information I have out there.

[prop]

BetOnline policy is to look and see this player started with $1,000 has $65,000 he must have cheated and from there continue to insinuate he did until he either goes away or slips up and his guilt is revealed. The reason this is a serious issue is because innocent players will get caught up in it and anyone that goes on a legit heater will be stolen from. Of all the cases I've read, I feel this one here is the most likely to involve an innocent player - but i don't know him and can't vouch for him - but at some point BetOnline will steal from innocent players whether this is that time or not.

And when they do, what resource does that cheated player have? Panama? In case you guys are not aware Panama licenses BetUS, Panama gave a license to Ultimate Bet. They don't do jack and it this has been confirmed many times. Operators pay $40,000 plus investigation costs and then $20,000 per year for the privilege of operating tax free. It's not a commission that protects players or has ever done anything proactive in a complaint complaint. There was the BetPanam pony show at one point but not much sense, and you guys know how that went.

Fact A) there is no licensing body that protect players. Fact B) Sportsbookreview.com has NEVER (check it i mean NEVER) posted a BetOnline complaint on their news feed since BestLine moved to this URL and they started affiliating for them (NEVER EVER EVER - not even ones where BetOnline would come out looking good in the end).

Meanwhile some of the richest companies in the world with active presences on forums hold C- to C+ ratings here.

So with no chance of bad PR when they do steal and no regulatory body to turn to where does a player go should BetOnline steal from them?

FACTS

1. BetOnline online poker software falls so grossly short of industry protocol they either lack competence or they have intent to steal.
2. SBR Lou however makes a comment about how advanced these guys are at figuring this all out and how great they are. This so far off, that either 1) SBR Lou is incompetent as well. 2) he's directly involved in the scam 3) SBR is incompetent and Lou's just doing his job the best he can, or 4) SBR is in on the scam and Lou is just doing his job.

Regardless of the scenario, BetOnline's poker software is not suitable for play and invites cheaters is so many ways its inconceivable anyone interested in fair games would ever put it online. It begs the question if it was large enough to do a full audit on distribution what that might turn up as well. They are not qualified to properly have even the slightest safe guards of snubbing collusion before large balances are obtained, how in god's hell as SBRLou insinuates in another thread are they remotely close to competent to do a full audit on this players accounts. Perhaps you don't realize there are TONs of poker regs interesting in fair gaming and hand histories are not proprietary in the sense that it reveals scams. Although the major poker sites wouldn't like it to be as result of companies like PTR all hands a player has ever played (with the exception of missed scrapes) are near public knowledge and well accessible at the major online poker sites. Allow the player his full hand history as he's been asking for 10 days to have, and let well respected members of the industry including book authors, statisticians and professional poker players review them and make a determination the player can use as evidence to state his case. At most site this should be the click of a couple buttons - and boom sent. The only company scared to release hand histories are generally the ones with something major to hide - and again this leads to asking what other flaws does the epic poor software of betOnline have and what is it they are trying to hide.

BetOnline is no doubt a rogue online gambling site

[SBR Lou]

Forgot to mention earlier Lou emailed me this morning saying they expect the management's audit to be done today. Thank you for the update Lou!

We spoke with mgt. again this morning, BetOnline is still completing the audit.

[Greg242]

We spoke with mgt. again this morning, BetOnline is still completing the audit.

Thank you for the update Lou! Again your help is greatly appreciated!!!

[Sirus73]

This site( Bet online) is crap. I have been playing there for about a month, no deposit, just built my bankroll thru free rolls. I hate the stability of the site. It crashes if you open 4 tables. Just earlier the site kept crashing every 2 minutes. It is still down as I write this. I was in a hand with 3 callers pre-flop with pocket kings and the server took a dump. I got a hold of some idiot who spoke terrible English who asked me " Did you lost money"? Since I didn't invest a dime, I'm transferring the money I've won to the sports book and laying it all on dogs today.bad site

[sharpcat]

Absolutely no reason for any slightly experienced player to be playing at Betonline,their software is horrible and allowing players from the same IP address to play at the same table is just asking to be cheated. IMHO all the recent disputes are players whose intent was to cheat the site, but it is absolutely a must that Betonline provide the hand histories and prove their case or else SBR Lou is going to end up coming out of this looking like Wilheim and SBR will be the new RX.

[C.S.]

Absolutely no reason for any slightly experienced player to be playing at Betonline...

Ummm... to take money from fishy players?

[mighty maron]

SBRLOU and everyone else considering this case......


Why is there not more made of the refusal to supply hand histories (complete)? Op should have had HH saved on his drive. Never the less..the rake you pay supplies services like your hand history upon request.

Any company that will not or can not supply this does not look very good...like the need to hide something

[mighty maron]

When a poker site or network lies to the public its disturbing. I read that BOL is on the action poker network. The action poker network has problems in the past paying larger cashouts. Just google it or search 2+2 to read the horror stories. I went to live chat on action poker web page. They say that BOL is not on their network. BOL says its not on the action network. Interesting graphic





Does it matter to me that a USA friendly site (BOL) plays on a network that does not allow US players? What matters is that if they lie about this to the public when anyone can ferret it out..how do we know this audit will be on the up and up when a basic request like HH goes unfufilled?

[spartangreen]

good luck with the situation, you did a good thing by saving all your information and chats with names, dates and times. only helps your case.

[sideloaded]

No he's not. He plays at a lot of Books and posts honestly on how he's treated at each. I respect his opinion even when it conflicts with mine. My experience on my first BOL payout has been poor, but I do expect to be paid eventually. Hoping the same for the OP if the facts pan out.

Yeah ok, Legion is already calling OP a scammer and linking him to some other random BOL complaint and in the same breath complaining about people pre judging BOL.

[Legions36]

Yeah ok, Legion is already calling OP a scammer and linking him to some other random BOL complaint and in the same breath complaining about people pre judging BOL.

Well it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they might know each other. For 1 if u read on this thread earlier on like the first page u will read how the OP of the other thread of a scammer came on this thread spamming how good this guy is at poker and played with him many times, not to mention he was colluding with like 8 other people and doing charge backs, not my words came from SBR in that thread. Also kind of funny these cases came around the same time for basically the same type issues for about the same kind of crazy amounts 35k- 65k. But i must be missing something cause your so much smarter than me. U wanna side with poker cheaters and scammers go right ahead not me. U guys think Betonline is bad with this poker go look on some of the threads on 2+2 about Starz locking and confiscating funds just for using a vpn, not even giving the money back that they earned. There are plenty of stories, u guys are just mad that Betonline doesn't work for u but they work great for me, if u guys don't like them don't use them so many places to choose from. If OP is proven in the right i will apologize, but im almost sure he is wrong as i hate cheaters when it comes to poker.
"Also your to stupid to realize, someone credible here at SBR Hedgehog is telling u im no shill and u also think he is lying", so what does that say about yourself.

[bubba]

Well it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they might know each other. For 1 if u read on this thread earlier on like the first page u will read how the OP of the other thread of a scammer came on this thread spamming how good this guy is at poker and played with him many times, not to mention he was colluding with like 8 other people and doing charge backs, not my words came from SBR in that thread. Also kind of funny these cases came around the same time for basically the same type issues for about the same kind of crazy amounts 35k- 65k. But i must be missing something cause your so much smarter than me. U wanna side with poker cheaters and scammers go right ahead not me. U guys think Betonline is bad with this poker go look on some of the threads on 2+2 about Starz locking and confiscating funds just for using a vpn, not even giving the money back that they earned. There are plenty of stories, u guys are just mad that Betonline doesn't work for u but they work great for me, if u guys don't like them don't use them so many places to choose from. If OP is proven in the right i will apologize, but im almost sure he is wrong as i hate cheaters when it comes to poker.
"Also your to stupid to realize, someone credible here at SBR Hedgehog is telling u im no shill and u also think he is lying", so what does that say about yourself.

legion- would you play poker at betonline? i keep a large balance there for wagers and am scared shit of even opening the poker just wondering what might happen. even if betonline is 100% in the right and the accused guys are scammers, not providing hand history within a reasonable time after the request makes betonline in the wrong too.

[5mike5]

would NOT put a penny in BOL...